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Hijab - no rude answers

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Well, I know it’s easy for men to just shut down and be all “just do it”. But for women struggling with it it is hard as nug.

You’ll never understand it. It take up so much space in our mental health and thinking. I worry I stress I hate. I really feel lost and sinning is something I wanna avoid but it’s too hard to reason with the hair part. I really hope this will be reconsidered by the bigger Maraji although it will never - as it will conflict with Irans political standpoint and ruin everything they hold against forcing women the headcover. 

I’m so deeply depressed. A piece of chiffon can make a whole religion go mad. I just don’t believe it. I believe in great intentions and love, hope, unity. All that I’ve alhamdulliah learned from islam. And not to forget; the women's endless rights. I will never again doubt my religion based on the veil. It takes up way too much space and is considered a hell fire sin to scare of young girls to wear it when in reality it is just an dimensional interpretation of the Quran. The man who believe in Niqab and it being fard is also considering not wearing it a hell fire sin. What’s right? What’s wrong? No one but Allah truely knows the answer and I believe that Ulamaa are in doubt themselves and do a “better safe than sorry” to not take others sins on their shoulders if they are too loose - understandably but what if it’s ruining family ties and women's lives? (I’m not exaggerating - it has happened and still does). Again, they are not prophets or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) - they’re men who have studied islam deeply. Some of them (the kuwaiti one) saying unislamic things about Aisha to prove his Shia standpoint - what in the world is that, how can I even think of him as a leader for me? It’s said that Imam Al Mahdi (aj) will kill over thousands of “pious” islamic clerics. So not all of them can be right. 

Anyway. Being insensitive about this because you live in Pakistan, Iran or New Delhi or other countries in the east is just rude and I should only address people living in the west to form an opinion, because too many of you guys (with all due respect) can’t give me a useful answer because you can’t simply relate.

it’s a major issue and trust me on this. So many girls are silent - and struggle with blood an tears everyday in the west because of their hijab and the limitation, racist slurs, hatecrimes and identity crisis they have to go through EVERY SINGLE DAY. We just want a collective solution.

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10 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

We just want a collective solution.

You want someone to say go ahead and remove the headscarf, and to put some sort of religious stamp on their statement? 

If you truly don't believe it's wajib then remove it but be prepared to face the consequences of your decision on yawm al qiyamah in case you were wrong despite knowing that the vast majority of the ulema of all sects consider it wajib.

If you believe it's wajib then you have the solution already.

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On 7/2/2020 at 4:47 PM, Guest The depressed sis said:

Nothing makes sense in this website. People compare socks to the hijab (very weird that womens clothing is ALL about socks and candy) well what if it was supposed to be your dress that was supposed to cover your ankels and not your socks? 

Clearly you missed the point. The point was that a sensible being will unconditionally obey the orders of God, who he has belief in on a logical basis, regardless of the order.  

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11 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

it’s a major issue and trust me on this. So many girls are silent - and struggle with blood an tears everyday in the west because of their hijab and the limitation, racist slurs, hatecrimes and identity crisis they have to go through EVERY SINGLE DAY

Who told you practising islam would be rainbows in the sky and small blue birds and deers following the person everywhere. 

You want to talk about everyday struggles?

Waking up for fajr in the morning is an everyday struggle for most muslims. A secular family member once disdainfully commented that prayer timings are picked by Allah to give maximum inconvenience to humans. Should we start a campaign to chnage Salat timings if they don't suit us?

People get killed in Pakistan and India EVERY SINGLE DAY for being muslims and shias. If you tell someone whose family member has been butchered by a meat cleaver for attending a majlis they will think you are being insensitive for creating an issue over 'a piece of chiffon'. Iranians have been going through the toughest economic sanctions for decades with shortage of life saving drugs and you tell us we don't know what 'a struggle of blood and tears' is like? 

You know islam has a solution for your problem. If someone feels he cannot practise his religion living in a place because the enviornment there isn't conducive to practising islam, he should move to another city/country. It can even be obligatory to move in certain cases IIRC. So move to a place where you can comfortably do Hijab as soon as possible. 

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On 7/4/2020 at 12:27 PM, Guest Guest said:

Well, I know it’s easy for men to just shut down and be all “just do it”. But for women struggling with it it is hard as nug.

You’ll never understand it. It take up so much space in our mental health and thinking. I worry I stress I hate. I really feel lost and sinning is something I wanna avoid but it’s too hard to reason with the hair part. I really hope this will be reconsidered by the bigger Maraji although it will never - as it will conflict with Irans political standpoint and ruin everything they hold against forcing women the headcover. 

I’m so deeply depressed. A piece of chiffon can make a whole religion go mad. I just don’t believe it. I believe in great intentions and love, hope, unity. All that I’ve alhamdulliah learned from islam. And not to forget; the women's endless rights. I will never again doubt my religion based on the veil. It takes up way too much space and is considered a hell fire sin to scare of young girls to wear it when in reality it is just an dimensional interpretation of the Quran. The man who believe in Niqab and it being fard is also considering not wearing it a hell fire sin. What’s right? What’s wrong? No one but Allah truely knows the answer and I believe that Ulamaa are in doubt themselves and do a “better safe than sorry” to not take others sins on their shoulders if they are too loose - understandably but what if it’s ruining family ties and women's lives? (I’m not exaggerating - it has happened and still does). Again, they are not prophets or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) - they’re men who have studied islam deeply. Some of them (the kuwaiti one) saying unislamic things about Aisha to prove his Shia standpoint - what in the world is that, how can I even think of him as a leader for me? It’s said that Imam Al Mahdi (aj) will kill over thousands of “pious” islamic clerics. So not all of them can be right. 

Anyway. Being insensitive about this because you live in Pakistan, Iran or New Delhi or other countries in the east is just rude and I should only address people living in the west to form an opinion, because too many of you guys (with all due respect) can’t give me a useful answer because you can’t simply relate.

it’s a major issue and trust me on this. So many girls are silent - and struggle with blood an tears everyday in the west because of their hijab and the limitation, racist slurs, hatecrimes and identity crisis they have to go through EVERY SINGLE DAY. We just want a collective solution.

I acknowledge that as a brother I will never know the struggles of my respected muslim muhajjiba sisters who practice the Hijab. However, living in the West myself and having seen thousands of and being around many muhajjiba sisters, I never thought it was as tough as you described it, epecially now that the West is becoming reletively more tolerant to different beliefs, perhaps a little too tolerant. We have people running around fighting for their right to be naked or embrace the same sex, but we find it difficult to stand our ground in wanting to clothe our own bodies with a little extra clothing? T'heck. 

Honestly, having observed thousands of people here, I still don't think it's as bad as you're hyping up about it. You may throw my opinion away as I'm a male, but you should sincerely ask yourself if your whining and complaining about all this is justified, and if your issues regarding this are intellectual and genuine. Wow blood, sweat and tears eh, damn, which state/city do you live in? You guys are really killing yourselves to wear the hijab huh

As you say that many girls are silent, I say that I see many girls loud about it's virtue and who wear it proudly.

Moreover, I do not know if it's deliberate, but you seem to be ignorant about something of paramount importance in our lives: You should know that divine commandment isn't understood simply from the Quran, but it's also understood through the teachings of the divine messengers and vicegerants of God. If it was simply the former, then we would've never known that Salat al Fajr was two rakats. We would have been lost.

The Holy Prophet of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in his last days:

  • "Indeed I am leaving two things among you, to which if you hold yourself, you will never astray: the book of Allah –who is all mighty and great- and my ahl al-bayt (household), my 'itra (family). O people hear! And I have announced to you that: indeed you will enter my presence and I will ask you about what you did to the thaqalayn (two weighty things) and the thaqalayn are the book of Allah and my ahl al-bayt." (Al Kafi. http://en.wikishia.net/view/Hadith_al-Thaqalayn)

The content of this tradition being narrated by the Prophet (saws) is accepted by all Muslim schools of thought in the world. Hence, so long as we wish not to go astray, we iust take the word of God from both, the Quran and the Prophet's ahl al-bayt. Our top scholars explore both these things deeply, from their cradle to their grave. Thus, we should not be doubtful of their verdicts. And you know full well what the mainstream verdict among them is on this. 

Sister, the Hijab is something that is unanimously accepted by the approximetly 2 Billion Muslims in the world.

Ya Allah, people have been legitimizing same sex marriage, nuditiy, sexualisation of women, and etc., but we find it problemsome to hide some skin and not wear body-defining clothing, that too only out in public!

The Earth is vast, if it's life-takingly difficult to do this then perhaps you should re-locate.

May Allah seriously help us. 

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45 minutes ago, starlight said:

Who told you practising islam would be rainbows in the sky and small blue birds and deers following the person everywhere. 

You want to talk about everyday struggles?

Waking up for fajr in the morning is an everyday struggle for most muslims. A secular family member once disdainfully commented that prayer timings are picked by Allah to give maximum inconvenience to humans. Should we start a campaign to chnage Salat timings if they don't suit us?

People get killed in Pakistan and India EVERY SINGLE DAY for being muslims and shias. If you tell someone whose family member has been butchered by a meat cleaver for attending a majlis they will think you are being insensitive for creating an issue over 'a piece of chiffon'. Iranians have been going through the toughest economic sanctions for decades with shortage of life saving drugs and you tell us we don't know what 'a struggle of blood and tears' is like? 

You know islam has a solution for your problem. If someone feels he cannot practise his religion living in a place because the enviornment there isn't conducive to practising islam, he should move to another city/country. It can even be obligatory to move in certain cases IIRC. So move to a place where you can comfortably do Hijab as soon as possible. 

My Salute to you, great post.

Edited by AStruggler

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Guest Depressed sis
13 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

You want someone to say go ahead and remove the headscarf, and to put some sort of religious stamp on their statement? 

Actually yes. What’s wrong with that? So many things has been reconsidered after deep studying. Why is this so bad? 

.. maybe because of Iran? They would not be able to force women of Iran to wear the veil if they conclude it being irrelevant. So I’m aiming for an Iraqi or western Ayatollah to form an opinion on this as Iranian maraji’ is almost impossible to rock. Their political agenda will be ruined for good if they touched the subject.

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53 minutes ago, Guest Depressed sis said:

Actually yes. What’s wrong with that? So many things has been reconsidered after deep studying. Why is this so bad? 

Why would they say it if they don't believe it? You personally have doubts about it, and that's fine. Each of us should research our doubts until we find an answer with the guidance of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). But why should the ulema change their stance if they're already convinced based on Qur'an, tafseer, hadeeth, islamic history and ijma that it is wajib? 

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Guest care?Monad!

if the females in question do not wish to wear it why keep prolonging this post. Each person is entitled to their own choices and live by them. I doubt the issue is hijab and there seems to be underlining issues that are being ignored which is on a per case bases. If the said individuals wish not to wear the haircovering, then do not do so, but one must then constantly question or assess one own self in regarding to the influence of external factors which will allow those individuals to degrade their dress wear. Today its the headwear, tomorrow short sleeve, shorts skirts, shorts. Males fall in the same category. Men expect women to wear hijab and dress modestly, yet in the heat they are in shorts and T-shirts. Shaped up beards because they watched a movie and some actor with muscles destroyed armies with the look of his handsome face......

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Guest Guest
9 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Why would they say it if they don't believe it? You personally have doubts about it, and that's fine. Each of us should research our doubts until we find an answer with the guidance of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). But why should the ulema change their stance if they're already convinced based on Qur'an, tafseer, hadeeth, islamic history and ijma that it is wajib? 

Hijab is wajib - no doubt. No one in is saying otherwise. Headwear is not. I can link to another thread on shiachat where a brother comes up with valid points about headscarf. There is a fine line between historic-cultural value and the ahadiths. If we were specifically ordered to cover the hair why is this not explicitly told. I hear men saying that not even a hair strand can show from the top of a woman’s head. Where is this narrated? I can’t help but repeating; just so it doesn’t so it for me. I was born in the religion - for me to be a true believer I need to doubt and research and then believe. Anything else is following traditions and culture.

For me it’s important that maraji’ consider this issue - i’m sure they get 1000 of questions like this on a monthly basis. It’s time to give it extra thought without bringing culture in into it and think that not all muslimas lives in the desert where people (men and women) would wear it as a protection from the sun.

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5 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

For me it’s important that maraji’ consider this issue - i’m sure they get 1000 of questions like this on a monthly basis.

Certainly they should consider it, but their conclusion might differ from yours. 

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On 7/4/2020 at 7:27 PM, Guest Guest said:

I’m so deeply depressed. A piece of chiffon can make a whole religion go mad. I just don’t believe it.

I quoted this because I believe it's important what you said.

The question we should ask us is, why do we get mad because of that headscarf? Do we get mad because we have been programmed/brainwashed to get mad when we see a woman without headscarf. Or do we get mad because we believe this goes against islam.

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21 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

I quoted this because I believe it's important what you said.

The question we should ask us is, why do we get mad because of that headscarf? Do we get mad because we have been programmed/brainwashed to get mad when we see a woman without headscarf. Or do we get mad because we believe this goes against islam.

What does it even matter?

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8 hours ago, Guest Depressed sis said:

@starlight 

@AStruggler

you two comment on every hijab post on sc and use the same arguments since 2015.. get som perspective.

You're mistaken. I never even had an account on this site till like a bit over 2 years ago. 

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Guest Guest
2 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

it matters because it tells us were the emotional response comes from.

Maybe culture and patriarchy. 

Mostly shaming culture - it’s a real thing. A white muslim doesn't have the urge to shame as much as a muslim with origin in the middle east would. Just take a look at the comment section on Dina Tokios videos. The shaming is so evil.

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The Islamic world is so backwards. I'm convinced how we practice Islam is not the way Islam was meant to be practiced. We read faulty narrations instead of the Qur'an for rules and guidance. This is the reason why the Muslims haven't made any progress in modern history while the western world has made advancements on advancements. Hate the west all you want, but the results speak for themselves. The west has gotten something fundamentally right, something which the Islamic world would even refuse to touch upon, and call it heresy. From what I understand, hijab changes with time. If you need to learn about hijab, see what the Qur'an says about it, and trust the interpretation you read from it. That will be sufficient for you.

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Guest Question-mark

I have a question:

Why did hijaab become A real thing after 1960’s? Most women did not wear it in most islamic countries. Was there an islamic awakening or is it political? 

my mother did not wear it until late 90’s when she was in her 20’s nor did any of her friends, colleagues, neighbors etc. After that everyone suddenly did?

What happened?

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4 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

it matters because it tells us were the emotional response comes from.

And what does it even matter if we found where it comes from? People get mad here and there, it have nothing to do with Islam itself, nor it have to do necessary with the person ahqlak.

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3 hours ago, Hussain_ said:

The Islamic world is so backwards. I'm convinced how we practice Islam is not the way Islam was meant to be practiced. We read faulty narrations instead of the Qur'an for rules and guidance. This is the reason why the Muslims haven't made any progress in modern history while the western world has made advancements on advancements. Hate the west all you want, but the results speak for themselves. The west has gotten something fundamentally right, something which the Islamic world would even refuse to touch upon, and call it heresy. From what I understand, hijab changes with time. If you need to learn about hijab, see what the Qur'an says about it, and trust the interpretation you read from it. That will be sufficient for you.

So most of the generations have been faulty in their guidance because they follow the faulty narrations instead of Qur'an? And what is the proof for such a claim. How it is way the Islam is meant to be practiced? What is the progress that we need to achieve and why? What is so amazing about the west and it's progress that Muslims should be ashamed of themselves? Did the west reach enlightenment to such degree that following their ways will lead to better morals, better faith etc?

 

Edited by Abu Nur

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22 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

So most of the generations have been faulty in their guidance because they follow the faulty narrations instead of Qur'an? And what is the proof for such a claim. How it is way the Islam is meant to be practiced? What is the progress that we need to achieve and why? What is so amazing about the west and it's progress that Muslims should be ashamed of themselves? Did the west reach enlightenment to such degree that following their ways will lead to better morals, better faith etc?

 

We get most of our rulings form narrations, even though narrations aren't meant to be the "book of guidance". Islam isn't meant to be practiced on old hadith, told in narrations. The West is moving global society forward. We came up with the iPhone, the internet, put the first man on the moon, established freedoms and the separation of church and state. And what a resounding success the western system has been that the rest of the world has tried to adopt it too. All this came from the values the west set for itself. The culture and values in the Islamic world have produced nothing for humanity in modern history, and that means it's getting something fundamentally wrong. It's because the Islamic world was too busy focused on their own versions of their religions, while the west, although claiming to be secular, got something fundamentally right in what the Western religions, including Islam taught. In my opinion, the secular west is more "Islamic" than the Islamic world, which is living in a self-made false reality.

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4 minutes ago, Hussain_ said:

We get most of our rulings form narrations, even though narrations aren't meant to be the "book of guidance". Islam isn't meant to be practiced on old hadith, told in narrations.

How did you come to such a conclusion that most of them are from narrations?

How does age of hadith have to do if something is meant to be practiced? Can we not imply same logic to Qur'an that is oldest than any narration and thus should not be practiced because it is old?

Quote

The West is moving global society forward. We came up with the iPhone, the internet, put the first man on the moon, established freedoms and the separation of church and state. And what a resounding success the western system has been that the rest of the world has tried to adopt it too. All this came from the values the west set for itself.

You see you are only listing technologies or worldly life achievement, that any tom, dick and harry can do it, I don't know how the west values have reached spiritual enlightenment that can guide me closeness to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). How can these west values make us to come to conclusion that some Islamic laws are wrong?

Quote

The culture and values in the Islamic world have produced nothing for humanity in modern history, and that means it's getting something fundamentally wrong.

Why it needs to produce anything for humanity? What is the fundamental that you are talking about?

Quote

 secular west is more "Islamic" than the Islamic world, which is living in a self-made false reality.

What self-made false reality? And how secular west is more "Islamic"? You mean Lgbtq, Riba, Zina, Kafir goverment laws, Bad Family values, people ditching religion all together, nakedness, alcohol allowed, freedom of speech that allows mocking God and religion is more Islamic?

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

And what does it even matter if we found where it comes from? People get mad here and there, it have nothing to do with Islam itself, nor it have to do necessary with the person ahqlak.

Sorry brother maybe we have misunderstood each other. Without saying too much to make a hassle, I just found it interesting that the op brough it up.

Personally I am for hijab.

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29 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

How does age of hadith have to do if something is meant to be practiced

in my understanding/interpretation of Islam, hadith wasn't meant to be practiced timelessly, the Qur'an was. Qur'an was written by Allah. Hadith are selected out of context and written down as if they're timeless by people like you and me.

 

31 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

How can these west values make us to come to conclusion that some Islamic laws are wrong?

the legitimacy of values can be seen in the way they spur human progress and englightenment. And in the Islamic world, we have none of that. I can only say for myself that Western values have brought me closer to Allah than the values espoused by the Islamic culture have.

 

33 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Why it needs to produce anything for humanity

In my beliefs, religion was put here by Allah to guide people and to help humanity reach its pinnacle.

 

34 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

You mean Lgbtq, Riba, Zina, Kafir goverment laws, Bad Family values, people ditching religion all together, nakedness, alcohol allowed, freedom of speech that allows mocking God and religion is more Islamic

I don't think Islam was made to be legislated to a general population. I think it is meant to be a deeply personal religion, where each person has their own unique relationship with their lord. To do that, you need to allow people freedoms so they are allowed to choose and progress the relationship they have with Allah. Allah made us free, who are we to impose our own religious interpretations on each other? There is no compulsion in religion. And legislating religious rules on a population is making those aspects of religions compulsory. The freedoms granted by the west are more in line with the Quranic teachings of humans having free will and "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion" than the legislated "Islamic" laws are in the Islamic world.

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33 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Is Hijab categorized as ruling that is only relevance to specific environments and cultures but it is not related to the general interests, and thus it is accidental ruling?

Ayatollah Kamal al-Haydari points out that while hijab is compulsory, what constitutes as "hijab" depends on the environment around you, including the time period in which you're living in and the type of society around you. Doesn't mean you need to listen to him or believe him, but just know that even at the highest levels of Islamic understanding, differences in opinion exist, and we are free to decide for ourselves using the intellect Allah gave us.

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Islamophobia in Belgium:

Thousands protest against Belgium’s college headscarf ban ruling

Quote

The protesters carried signs bearing slogans such as “Take your hands off my headscarf,” “My right” and “Enough.”

The group read a statement drawing attention to the religiously motivated discrimination faced by Muslim women in Belgium and requesting that Muslim women’s rights be taken into consideration in the making of Belgian laws.

A group of demonstrators wore graduation caps.
 

https://en.abna24.com/news//thousands-protest-against-belgium’s-college-headscarf-ban-ruling_1052869.html

Thousands protest against Belgium’s college headscarf ban ruling

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8 hours ago, Hussain_ said:

The Islamic world is so backwards. I'm convinced how we practice Islam is not the way Islam was meant to be practiced. We read faulty narrations instead of the Qur'an for rules and guidance. This is the reason why the Muslims haven't made any progress in modern history while the western world has made advancements on advancements. Hate the west all you want, but the results speak for themselves. The west has gotten something fundamentally right, something which the Islamic world would even refuse to touch upon, and call it heresy. From what I understand, hijab changes with time. If you need to learn about hijab, see what the Qur'an says about it, and trust the interpretation you read from it. That will be sufficient for you.

I think they got social systems, technological research and education right. 

But when it comes to family life, religious values and relationships they are struggling. Stable marriages are becoming more rare by the day. More and more people are essentially single, growing older and struggling with depression or self esteem issues. Sexuality has gone haywire, many are not sure of what their actual inclination is anymore. 

The west got some things right and other things terribly wrong. I don't see how hijab falls into a category of what they got right.

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Guest Guest
4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Islamophobia in Belgium:

Thousands protest against Belgium’s college headscarf ban ruling

https://en.abna24.com/news//thousands-protest-against-belgium’s-college-headscarf-ban-ruling_1052869.html

Thousands protest against Belgium’s college headscarf ban ruling

It should go both ways. I’m against the ban of the scarf and i’m also against forcing the scarf by law. It should be a woman's right to choose either way. Ao much for a piece of fabric...

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Guest Ghaith
3 hours ago, Mahdavist said:But when it comes to family life, religious values and relationships they are struggling. Stable marriages are becoming more rare by the day. More and more people are essentially single, growing older and struggling with depression or self esteem issues. 


I’m sorry but all of the mentioned are too things the muslim world struggles with on top of the lack of progression in technology, political stability, wars etc.

 

Never have I we seen so many muslim couples get divorced. Properly because of culture nothing to do with Islam. Which is my point. So many things are hooked up to culture and it’s eating up the religion. People who have weak faith will leave the religion when they meet other more tolerate cultures. It’s not Islam - it’s the culture. 

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9 hours ago, Guest Ghaith said:


I’m sorry but all of the mentioned are too things the muslim world struggles with on top of the lack of progression in technology, political stability, wars etc.

 

Never have I we seen so many muslim couples get divorced. Properly because of culture nothing to do with Islam. Which is my point. So many things are hooked up to culture and it’s eating up the religion. People who have weak faith will leave the religion when they meet other more tolerate cultures. It’s not Islam - it’s the culture. 

Exactly. I think we've long mistaken culture for Islam. And the reason the western world has more divorces than the Islamic world is that the west is more tolerant and open to divorce. There's plenty of women in the Islamic world that are unhappy with their marriage but they are simply not allowed to divorce. Divorce rates are low because women are essentially forced to stay in unhappy and even abusive marriages through cultural and family pressures. So simply pointing out that divorce rates are low in the Islamic world isn't a sufficient enough argument.

In my opinion, the Islamic culture really needs to change and progress, and get more in line with the true modern nature of Islam

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23 hours ago, Hussain_ said:

The Islamic world is so backwards. I'm convinced how we practice Islam is not the way Islam was meant to be practiced. We read faulty narrations instead of the Qur'an for rules and guidance. This is the reason why the Muslims haven't made any progress in modern history while the western world has made advancements on advancements. Hate the west all you want, but the results speak for themselves. The west has gotten something fundamentally right, something which the Islamic world would even refuse to touch upon, and call it heresy. From what I understand, hijab changes with time. If you need to learn about hijab, see what the Qur'an says about it, and trust the interpretation you read from it. That will be sufficient for you.

Nazi germany did results, the soviet union did results, hate them all you want but they "defently are doing something right and we are wrong because we did not do what they did" , this argument is fallacious, it has nothing to do with hijab or anything, I could care less about what technological advancment the west has made, that does not give them the moral high ground.

As for your main argument of hijab being only interpreted by quran, I litterally put a video in this same exact forum that shows that it is in the quran and he explained it from a LINGUISTIC point of view not hadiths, so your point really does not even hold water.

And the quran is old, it is 1400 years old, it is older then the hadiths you claim to be old so whats your point?  

You also in another reply emphesize on muslims only taking the quran values and the hadiths which are written by fallible human beings should be not taken timelessly, but then you claim muslims should have their own unique way of following islam, but the quran has rules that are set in stone so they cant really do it their own unique way, they way they desire.

Also you claim the west is more islamic then the muslim world, so which part of this whole usury based, porn supporting, hate God himself, drink alchool, do whatever you want as long as you dont hurt others type of society is islamic???

Oh wait I know, they invented stuff to make us live better which defently is only the case because they pillaged and destroyed everyone while they developped in a pollitically stable enviroment but lets blame it all on islam, its our fault they got better weapons at one point in history and inslaved us.

And guess what, thoses black people in africa, "they must be doing something fundementally wrong why did they not send spaceships to the moon???? They must be uncivilised, we should civilise them" 

This again is obviously an extreemly fallacious as an argument and you can already see where things like racism came from, it always starts subtly.

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1 hour ago, HusseinAbbas said:

Nazi germany did results, the soviet union did results,

I would say the fact that they couldn't even last a century is enough to refute that claim. The west has done something much more profound than just technological advancements. In social structure, democracy, and government they've made advances. One of the (if not the) fundamental ideas that the West established is that the individual is sovereign. And based off of that core value, it made progress in all sorts of different fields subsequently. This idea doesn't exist in the Islamic culture, and it's one of the primary things that's holding it back from progressing.

 

1 hour ago, HusseinAbbas said:

LINGUISTIC point of view

I know that the word it used means a head covering, I'm not debating the meaning of the word. The difference in opinion comes from the interpretation and essentially how it's read. The verse is worded in a strange sort of way, at least from what I can tell by the English translation. Maybe if I learn and become fluent in Arabic, I'll be able to read the original text and figure out what exactly the Qur'an means, but I don't have the necessary faculties available to me right now so the best I can do is go off of multiple English translations.

 

1 hour ago, HusseinAbbas said:

And the quran is old, it is 1400 years old, it is older then the hadiths you claim to be old so whats your point?

My claim is that Hadith aren't infallible; and they're not meant to be taken as guidance like the Qur'an is. Qur'an is timeless. Hadith are not.

 

1 hour ago, HusseinAbbas said:

but then you claim muslims should have their own unique way of following islam, but the quran has rules that are set in stone so they cant really do it their own unique way, they way they desire.

To be clear, we should follow the rules that are set in stone in the Qur'an and not to transgress against the Word of God. My point is that everyone interprets the Word of God differently, and as a result individuals may "follow" the Qur'an slightly differently than each other, because of the differences in interpretation. For example, it's hard to interpret the ban on eating pig differently, so most people don't eat pig. But with more vague verses, people may interpret differently and as a result act it out differently.

 

1 hour ago, HusseinAbbas said:

Also you claim the west is more islamic then the muslim world, so which part of this whole usury based, porn supporting, hate God himself, drink alchool, do whatever you want as long as you dont hurt others type of society is islamic?

The West is not without its problems; but at the fundemental levels, it's values are straight. It's the betrayal of those core values that some people may fall into vices. One of the "Islamic" values the West has embodied in my opinion is the seperation of Church and State, where it does not legislate religion and it's interpreted moral values. This is in line with "there is no compulsion in religion" and verses 88:21 and 88:22 from the Qur'an. No man has the authority to legislate religion for another man. Some "Islamic" countries can't come to terms with that, while the West has.

1 hour ago, HusseinAbbas said:

which defently is only the case because they pillaged and destroyed everyone while they developped in a pollitically stable enviroment

I disagree. We didn't pillage and destroy "everyone" and it's certainly not the reason the West has exceeded, precisely the opposite. And if you want to talk about pillaging and creating a politically stable environment, I'd like you to read up on some Islamic history.

 

2 hours ago, HusseinAbbas said:

And guess what, thoses black people in africa, "they must be doing something fundementally wrong why did they not send spaceships to the moon???? They must be uncivilised, we should civilise them" 

Well the westerners made the West a much better place to be than the Africans did with Africa. "Civilizing" other people is against my values, as you can see I am against enforcing your own values on other people. And let's not forget that Africans were enslaving each other and that the Europeans simply bought black people from black people. Still wrong of course, but it's not like they went and kidnapped a bunch of people minding their own business, people seem to forget that. And let's also remember that the reason the West doesn't have slavery anymore is because it went against that core value of individual sovereignty and as a result didn't last.

 

2 hours ago, HusseinAbbas said:

This again is obviously an extreemly fallacious as an argument and you can already see where things like racism came from, it always starts subtly.

I am against any and all forms of racism because it is a violation of the value of individual sovereignty, where instead of seeing an individual as an individual, you see them as part of a group. Racism is simply a form of collectivism, and I am against collectivism.

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