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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Hijab - no rude answers

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Salam..

I don't know the best way to open up this discussion. I assume that most people on this site is strict and maybe even have a hard time thinking outside of the box (no offense) I believe that we can still talk about things in a highly and valuable manner and try to understand each other. See I don’t believe in the concept of head veil for women. As a so called “hijabi” I’ve been wearing it for as long as I can remember and now researching it for 3 years I’ve found out it’s historical meaning. No ayah meantion hair nor any hadeeth and still it is made very very clear by scholars that the hair must be covered. But why? I mean even the ahadeeth doesn’t say HAIR.

 I’ve also seen Sayed Kamal Al-Haydaris statement about renewing things according to time and I couldn't agree more - he was speaking about the hijab. 
I think most scholars are agreeing on the hair thing to keep it as a symbol to differentiate muslim women from non-muslims just like they did 1400 ago. I personally find this saddening because it would then only be mustahab and not wajib - it would solve a lot of issues for so many women and their struggles. Women who don't intend on showing of their body (keep their hijab, which I think is covering of the body and not the hair). I ask myself why everything is made so easy for men by our scholars? Mutah was an issue for men with urges (animalistic much) and voila, a new fatwah regarding the issue and now so many practice it - even though mutaa was originally thought to be for WOMEN. Why does women have to struggle and cover their hair and in some translations of the Quraan - their face too? I’m so sorry but it doesn't make sense at all! If you’re a man who’s going to tell about the headscarf and how beautiful it is I want you to close your eyes for a brief moment and imagine you have to wear a scarf to cover your hair (believe me or not I find mens hair the most attractive on them) all day everyday. At work, at school, at every gathering or event with women in it. Imagine! Not pleasant or necessary, right? Now don't get me wrong I believe in the hijab as in modesty and to cover up the body with loose clothing. I just can’t seem to put my head around the fact that fibers on the head should be covered in order to be modest. Nor do I believe that a woman is less of muslimah if she chose not to cover her hair. In the end Allah knows best!

Don’t be insensitive when giving your opinion. 

Ws

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Guest Guest
3 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Hate it and you will throw it away, no matter what reasoning you try to justify it with.

Very helpful - thanks! Now I believe in it.

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Just now, Guest Guest said:

Very helpful - thanks! Now I believe in it.

No need to thank me if you have already decided in your heart to hate it. And I have nothing to do for what you believe or not.

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Guest Guest
Just now, Abu Nur said:

No need to thank me if you have already decided in your heart to hate it. And I have nothing to do for what you believe or not.

I clearly stated that I dont want any insensitive answers. Let alone by a man. A man who obviously can’t think further than the end of his own nose.
You didn’t even bother to spend a minute and reflecting on some of my points. 

Narrow-minded.

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4 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

I clearly stated that I dont want any insensitive answers. Let alone by a man. A man who obviously can’t think further than the end of his own nose.
You didn’t even bother to spend a minute and reflecting on some of my points. 

Narrow-minded.

Lol speaking of rude.

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Guest Guest
12 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Lol speaking of rude.

:surrender:

.. I hope I can get some useful answers from people who would actually like to discuss this and not only to reflect their inner hate

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12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Sayed Kamal Al-Haydaris statement about renewing things according to time

Do you believe Kamal al-Haydari to be the most knowledgeable marja?

12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

No ayah meantion hair

The Quran verse mentions 'beauty' (24:31) Do you believe hair adds to a woman's beauty?

12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

(keep their hijab, which I think is covering of the body

How did you reach this conclusion that Hijab means covering of body?

12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Why does women have to struggle and cover their hair a

So you think men are exempt from Hijab?

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Guest lul!Monad

You need to form your own opinion and base it on your own decision making skills.

Considering the new C-19 Norm, even Men have to cover their faces. So in reality Hijab is a probable must for all the ploteriate class and for the elite class, a case to be invisible. Thus we are going back to the ways of the ancients.

You did address an interesting point, that women do find hair and beards on men attractive and in many cases sexually attractive too. Time to be buddhist monks.

What if a female were to wear a wig on top of her hair?. Now would that be classed as a covering?.

How much of the enforcing of hijab is based on protecting the female or following idealised religion or culture?.

Consider what is the probability of further reduction in attire if one absolves the hijab. Here this would mean that if one starts the removal of the headscarf what is likely to influence the said person to then decide they would dress more like the western clad attire, where more skin is shown for emotional validation but is hidden via the case of liberality.

Dress code is based on personality , intelligence, need and imitation.

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Guest Guest
11 hours ago, starlight said:

Do you believe Kamal al-Haydari to be the most knowledgeable marja?

The Quran verse mentions 'beauty' (24:31) Do you believe hair adds to a woman's beauty?

How did you reach this conclusion that Hijab means covering of body?

So you think men are exempt from Hijab?

I believe he’s brave enough to think outside of the norms. He clearly states something that is obviously important and relevant. 

I believe lips and eyes adds more to a womans beauty.

Because khimaar was a cultural garment. It was used pre-islamic as why women was ordered to use it to cover their bossoms.

No, but their hijab has nothing to do with their hair

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3 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Good luck to give reasoning for people who have already decided or are so eager to toss their hijab. 

Please leave the discussion. Nobody hates the hijab. Being critical and asking question has nothing to do with hate!

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29 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

I believe he’s brave enough to think outside of the norms. He clearly states something that is obviously important and relevant. 

This didn't answer my question.  Out of the box thinking is not the parameter for following a scholar. A first year hawza student can have an out of box thinking but if he hasn't mastered the basic principles fiqh no use following him.

29 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

I believe lips and eyes adds more to a womans beauty.

Again,you didn't answer my question

 It was a simple yes or no. Do you believe hair is a part of woman's beauty or not? 

30 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Because khimaar was a cultural garment. It was used pre-islamic as why women was ordered to use it to cover their bossoms.

And khimaar was not used to cover the head back then?

44 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

No, but their hijab has nothing to do with their hair

I wrote this because you said that it's just the women who have stopped struggle with the Hijab.

51 minutes ago, starlight said:

How did you reach this conclusion that Hijab means covering of body?

You didn't answer this.

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Just now, Abu Nur said:

Hate it and you will throw it away, no matter what reasoning you try to justify it with.

I love the hijab, but I am still struggling with it for cultural and political reasons. So if someone is struggling with the hijab doesn't mean that they hate it. And she does actually bring up some valid points.

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Guest Guest
45 minutes ago, starlight said:

This didn't answer my question.  Out of the box thinking is not the parameter for following a scholar. A first year hawza student can have an out of box thinking but if he hasn't mastered the basic principles fiqh no use following him.

Again,you didn't answer my question

 It was a simple yes or no. Do you believe hair is a part of woman's beauty or not? 

And khimaar was not used to cover the head back then?

I wrote this because you said that it's just the women who have stopped struggle with the Hijab.

You didn't answer this.

The only one who is all-knowing is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) himself. Scholars are people, human beings. I respect them but that doesn’t mean I can think for myself. If they would have the time (and interest) to open up for discussion they would themselves realize this. Many many muslims believe that the headcover is cultural. It makes women feel smaller than men - because of the output of what it symbolises. Women have hair and men have hair. the only difference is that womens hair is sexualized and thus it has to be covered up. Which leads me to another point. Why women can’t read Quran out loud in a mosque? Sorry but it seems too unacceptable for me to believe that a womans voice used to read up from the holy Quran can be arousing to men? It’s an issue that is linked to culture and not Islam. Please have in mind that Allah created this religion to fit all time and place. It’s was not only tailored for the arabic world. It is a perfect religion that gives women their full right to chose, be strong and educated. Men shouldn’t force upon them something that will lead their political or cultural agenda out in the world. Women used to propose to the men they liked, when used run businesses and be leaders. Used to as in 1400 years ago. Today we don’t have that. Today we are all about sharaf and gheera and culture that is raised above our beloved religion. Unfortunately.

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17 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Scholars are people, human beings. I respect them but that doesn’t mean I can think for myself. I

Please go ahead. I see no point engaging in this discussion.  

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Guest Guest
2 minutes ago, starlight said:

Please go ahead. I see no point engaging in this discussion.  

Oh ya Allah. Please don’t tell me you think they’re masoumeen? Please tell me you at least believe they have different viewpoints because they’re human beings and why WE with our BRAINS has to chose the marjaa’ that fits our thinking. You can’t seriously say you think everything a marjaa says is valid unless he proves his point. You have a brain alhamdulliah and they’re no prophets. They are people who have studied hawza and dedicated their lives to it which is why they have my respect. But you can’t tell me you really believe they never make mistakes or exaggerate on something when in doubt. As in “better safe than sorry”.

Please ya Allah give me sabr.

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Just now, Guest Guest said:

Why women can’t read Quran out loud in a mosque?

I have been to an women's only mosque a number of times. There is no problem for women reciting the Quran, sounding the Athan and leading the prayer. Even though it is a Suni/Sufi mosque I like going there because it is a completely different feeling with much more community among women. Even after the prayer there is a session where everybody is sharing their feelings about the prayer and the topic of the khutbah.
And yes in that women's mosque they have a more relaxed attitude to the hijab. Generally everybody wears headscarf during prayer, but many arrive without the headscarf. In the other mosque I go to, which is a purpose build Shia mosque women generally arrive wearing headscarf. And no women reciting the Quran. But it is ok with me. I love both places.

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9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Please don’t tell me you think they’re masoumeen?

I never said anything like this. Don't make up things and don't exaggerate.

9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Please ya Allah give me sabr.

Ameen.

I asked a few simple questions, some of them twice. You didn't answer.

You keep on jumping from one thing to another Hijab, mutah, women in masjid. Maybe someone else can come and help you. I can't. Sorry.

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Guest Guest
Quote

 It was a simple yes or no. Do you believe hair is a part of woman's beauty or not? 
 

Yes it is a part of her beauty. But in my opinion less than the lips and the eyes.

11 hours ago, starlight said:

And khimaar was not used to cover the head back the

Yes, in a culturally way. It was used as a social statement to differentiate between poor and rich.

11 hours ago, starlight said:
12 hours ago, starlight said:

 

You didn't answer this.

Read the above. Again. Culture. Never is it mentioned as HAIR but bossoms and beauty. It could be so many things. Which is why we have to think ourselves. 
Hair? No. Lips? No. Eyes? No. Bossom, arms, legs and awrah. The most obvious sexual parts of the womans body. this is what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) thinks is best for us. Lips is used for communication and has just recently been sexualised! There wasn’t anything sexual about lips just 100 years ago.

I answered your questions. Now you can move on with your life.

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Without getting deep into the debate I prefer to suggest a simpler approach:

Did the womenfolk of the prophet and his progeny (peace and blessings on all of them) cover their hair? It appears from historical reports that they did.

In that case as a minimum it is a sunnah. 

If it turns out to be wajib, then the one who didn't observe the hijab has disobeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

If it turns out not to be wajib, then the one who still observed hijab has followed a great sunnah.

In simple terms, you cannot go wrong with it. When it comes to our money we prefer safe investments. With our health we prefer safe procedures. Surely we want to protect our nafs equally as well if not better? 

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Guest Guest
1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

Without getting deep into the debate I prefer to suggest a simpler approach:

Did the womenfolk of the prophet and his progeny (peace and blessings on all of them) cover their hair? It appears from historical reports that they did.

In that case as a minimum it is a sunnah. 

If it turns out to be wajib, then the one who didn't observe the hijab has disobeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

If it turns out not to be wajib, then the one who still observed hijab has followed a great sunnah.

In simple terms, you cannot go wrong with it. When it comes to our money we prefer safe investments. With our health we prefer safe procedures. Surely we want to protect our nafs equally as well if not better? 

Good approach. But why is it not for sure? Why is so many subject deeply investigated and this not? Is it because it’s about women? Why the better safe than sorry analogy? Many women in the west have struggles with it. Why do they have to put it on if it isnt wajib? 

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To add to what the brother said above:

If you are uncertain regarding the wajibat of wearing hijab, then you should practise ithiyad on the question. Then the real question would be: should the ithiyad be wajib?

For what would the possible ramification be if hijab turns out to be wajib on yawm al qiyamah and you did not wear it, subsequently, what would the possible ramifications be if it turns out hijab was not wajib on yawm al qiyamah and you decided to wear it.

Evidently, even for a person who is unsure regarding its wajibat, ihtiyat must be practised and since it's a matter as impactful and meaningful as a physical manifestation of a possibly divine commandment, it is a ithiyad wajib, even in such a scenario.

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6 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Good approach. But why is it not for sure? Why is so many subject deeply investigated and this not? Is it because it’s about women? Why the better safe than sorry analogy? Many women in the west have struggles with it. Why do they have to put it on if it isnt wajib? 

Salam alaikum sister. I think it has been and continues to be investigated and there seems to be a general consensus among the main muslim sects that it is indeed wajib, based on a contextual analysis of the Qur'an as well as hadith.

This doesn't mean that you can't continue to study/investigate, please do so. But while you are still unsure of the conclusion I would recommend the safe approach. It would be the same for any other subject. 

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Salam, Sister Guest.

12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I think most scholars are agreeing on the hair thing to keep it as a symbol to differentiate muslim women from non-muslims just like they did 1400 ago.

^ It's good that you agree that Muslim women wore hijab 1400 years ago. 

10 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Women have hair and men have hair. the only difference is that womens hair is sexualized and thus it has to be covered up. 

^Exactly. You have answered your own question about hijab. 

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18 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Salam..

 No ayah meantion hair nor any hadeeth and still it is made very very clear by scholars that the hair must be covered. But why? I mean even the ahadeeth doesn’t say HAIR.

 

Don’t be insensitive when giving your opinion. 

Ws

Salam, Here is a short video that you might find informative in answer to your above statement. 

 

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Guest Guest
6 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Salam, Sister Guest.

^Exactly. You have answered your own question about hijab. 

Sorry I think you misunderstood. Sexualized in this context. There isn't anything sexual about it psycological speeking. But it adds to beauty like the lips and eyes does.

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Guest Guest
1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

Salam, Here is a short video that you might find informative in answer to your above statement. 

 

Thank you for the video. I’ve seen it a 100 times along with all the other shia and sunni videos about hijab on youtube. She’s correct about hijab - but again. Nothing about hair. I agree 110% hijab is wajib. The definition of what hijab is os misunderstood. Some hadiths (sunni) says body, hair, face and gloves. GLOVES for Gods sake. Dis they tailor gloves in the dessert at the time? I would just hope they would be more specific about the hair thing. 

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Guest Guest
15 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Without getting deep into the debate I prefer to suggest a simpler approach:

Did the womenfolk of the prophet and his progeny (peace and blessings on all of them) cover their hair? It appears from historical reports that they did.

In that case as a minimum it is a sunnah. 

If it turns out to be wajib, then the one who didn't observe the hijab has disobeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

If it turns out not to be wajib, then the one who still observed hijab has followed a great sunnah.

In simple terms, you cannot go wrong with it. When it comes to our money we prefer safe investments. With our health we prefer safe procedures. Surely we want to protect our nafs equally as well if not better? 

Thank you for your answer brother. My Allah grant you. 

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Guest Zainab

Salam,

My and my sister were discussing the exact same thing the other day. We had the exact same questions.

I think the strongest evidence we have now that the hair and neck area should be  covered is the Khimar example in the Quran where it says to take the Khimar and cover the breasts.  

However, some argue that translation of Khimar is ‘cloth’, not ‘head covering’. So, that is where my weariness is at. What is the true translation of Khimar and what is the evidence for this? 


And I’m not saying this because I see it as some sort of oppression that women have to wear a headscarf and men don’t have to. I wouldn’t even want to remove my headscarf because I see it as another level of modesty, just as a face covering is an even higher level of modesty. Even in Judaism and Christianity, there is some form of head covering. I’m just wondering if the head covering is Mustahab or Wajib. 

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