Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

A Syed Girl's marriage with Non-Syed Boy - Why is this even a topic of discussion?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

Guest Fluffy Rabbit
13 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

The matter is already clear. A woman who is sayyid can marry a man who isn't sayyid according to our fiqh. You can refer to the marriages of the daughters of the aimmah (عليه السلام) as an example. 

I am not qualified enough to talk upon the matters performed by Aaimah ((عليه السلام)) because they have the right to expound on what they did. I do not have a sight like they had.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 89
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Bismillah.  Many Ulima of Shia has considered it to be halal and completely valid but people of subcontinent abuse them and curse them for this. There is a famous hadith of Imam Jaffer-e-Sad

Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) married a Coptic slave named Maria al-Qibtiyya, Maria the Copt. Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) was married to a Persian slave, Shahrbanu, the mother of Imam Al

This repressive ideology of syed and non syed marriage has ruined too many lives to count.I know of two cases where both syeds each gender were scarred for life. I can understand someone marrying

Posted Images

Guest Fluffy Rabbit
1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

The matter is already clear. A woman who is sayyid can marry a man who isn't sayyid according to our fiqh. You can refer to the marriages of the daughters of the aimmah (عليه السلام) as an example. 

If you are going to cite example of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) then for that many scholars quote that Hazrat Imran (عليه السلام) was also name of Hazrat Abu Talib (عليه السلام) and best fits the verse 33 of Surah-e-Aal-e-Imran along witj of father of Hazrat Moses (عليه السلام) which says: "We choose House of Imran over Aalimeen". Its worth noting that Hazrat Moses (عليه السلام) and Hazrat Haroon (عليه السلام) were two prophets from their father and From Hazrat Abu Talib (عليه السلام), imam ali (عليه السلام) born for whom prophet (pbuhhp) said: "O! Ali, my generation will run through you". 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Rabit you don't even know what are you posting.

18 hours ago, Guest Fluffy Rabbit said:

Yes, she can but her children won't be called as syeds

In the end we agree such marriage is permissible and thats what this topic is related with. 

This topic has nothing to do with if children would be sadaat or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Fluffy Rabbit
9 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Rabit you don't even know what are you posting

She can because she has ikhtiyar. No one has the right to stop her except Allah (s) her prophet and imam. Am i her imam, no im not but if she wants that and she is ready to face all social tauntings by her own relatives and her husband's what effect will have it upon me! 

 

9 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

In the end we agree such marriage is permissible and thats what this topic is related with. 

No opinion. Its matter of personal interpretation. For me sadaat generation must continue. 

9 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

This topic has nothing to do with if children would be sadaat or not.

As already said, a syeda should be ready and take lessons from Divorce of Hazrat Zainab ((عليه السلام)) and Hazrat Zaid ((عليه السلام)).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Fluffy Rabbit
1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

It continues regardless of who a woman marries. A sayyid man can marry virtually anyone and his children are still sadaat.

 

Correct it will, but I will not speak about syeda and wait for Allah (s) explaanation through His Hujjah (عليه السلام).

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 2/16/2021 at 4:02 PM, Guest Fluffy Rabbit said:

As already said, a syeda should be ready and take lessons from Divorce of Hazrat Zainab ((عليه السلام)) and Hazrat Zaid ((عليه السلام)).

Hazrat Zainab (عليه السلام) the cousin of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) you mentioned was from Bani-Asad i think. Her father wasn't Quraishi, he was from Bani Asad so it makes her (عليه السلام) a Non-Syeda.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
On 6/20/2020 at 7:42 AM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Another argument is by using hadiths and ayahs, they prove that Sadaat (Descendents of Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) are Afzal. There are many hadiths and even books written on this topic. I will try to summarize a speech here:


 it was said that Ma'mun questioned Imam Ali Raza (عليه السلام) that has Allah given superiority to Itrah (of Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) over other people?
Imam Ali Raza (عليه السلام) replied that it has been documented in the Book of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)
And recited verse of Surah Al-Imran ayah 33-34
Then preacher said: This is why descendants of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are superior to others.
Since they are superior, respecting them is obligatory.
Then preacher gave reference of Jami-Al-AKhbar page 140
There was a hadith in which Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: Respect my descendants. Those who are good, respect them for the sake of Allah and those who are bad, respect them for me.

Then another quote from Imam Hassan Askari (عليه السلام) was presented in which Imam (عليه السلام) said:

Respecting descendants is obligatory in every condition, and do not dis-respect them nor consider them worthless.

Note: Then he presented a hadith that Sadqa is haram for descendants. inshaAllah this will be covered in seperate post.

Then he was further quoting hadiths on Fazail.

Then he quotes an Ayah Quran 4:34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth

Now he said: that a Syeda is superior to Ummah, so how can she marry non-Syed, since Men have authority over women thus Men are superior, thus she would have to obey that Non-Syed which is totally against Quran. Thus it is not possible for a Syeda to obey Non-Syed thus from Quran its proven that Syeda cannot marry a Non-Syed

                                                                                                 <-- Speech Ends -->


So i think i have covered almost everything he said regarding that.

1. First of all, in the sermon that Imam Ali Raza (عليه السلام) delivered, Imam (عليه السلام) did mention that if Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was alive today, he could marry your daughters but not mine.
Imam mentioned his daughters, but never mentioned anywhere that our daughters cannot marry anyone from Ummah. I can't believe while explaining all merits of descendants of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), how come imam (عليه السلام) forgot such an important thing?

Since he was mentioning merits of Sadaat, no one can dare to claim that he did taqqiyah. He did explain all the merits, even mentioned his daughters but never said our daughters cannot marry anyone from Ummah.

2. So basically these people made a principle that "Superior cannot obey Inferior, therefore marriage is invalid since former would have to obey latter in case of women"  since it opposes above mentioned verse of Quran.

I would like to mention a few things regarding Parents here:

Quran 17:24 

And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy and say, "My Lord, have mercy upon them as they brought me up [when I was] small." (quran.com)

And make yourself submissively gentle to them with compassion, and say: “O my Lord! have compassion on them, as they brought me up (when I was) a child.” (Al-Islam)

Quran tells us to submit to our parents both Father & Mother. 

عَنِ الرِّضَا (ع) فِي كِتَابِهِ إِلَى الْمَأْمُونِ قَالَ: وَ بِرُّ الْوَالِدَيْنِ وَاجِبٌ وَ إِنْ كَانَا مُشْرِكَيْنِ وَ لاَ طَاعَةَ لَهُمَا فِي مَعْصِيَةِ الْخَالِقِ.

In a letter to Ma`mun, Imam ar-Ridha (peace be upon him) wrote: “To do good to one’s parents is obligatory, even if they are of the polytheists, however, they should not be obeyed in acts that go against the commands of Allah.”

Biharul Anwar, Volume 74, Page 72

Then Imam Ali Raza (عليه السلام) told us to obey parents even kafirs but not if they go against commands of Allah.

Thus its proven that we have to obey parents and submit to them. Just Keep that in mind.

Now if a Syed Boy marries a Non-Syeda, and if they get blessed with a child, 

The Child would be Syed (Whose respect is wajib) and he will have to obey parents as well and submit to them.

How will a Syed child, obey and submit to Non-Syeda Mother?

If we apply this principle, marriage of Syed Boy with Non-Syeda Girl is rendered invalid as well.

Then what is fatwa on marriages of Imams (عليه السلام) with Non-Syeda Women? Nauzobillah Nauzobillah Astagfirullah Those marriages were invalid? 

If Syed child  can obey Non-Syed mother without issue of superiority, then Syeda Girl can also obey Non-Syed Husband without issue of Superiority.

And their respect is upon both Mother and Husband. Even Imam (عليه السلام) has told us to respect our wives. But that doesn't negate the authority that Husband has over wife.

I disagree to this statement__ *Syeda Girl can also obey Non-Syed Husband without issue of Superiority*  __ basically here is a point which is important enough_ form *Islamic and Scientific both point of view progenitor is man* and doesn't matter woman belongs to syed or non-syed family but their children obviously will be syed. on the other hand *if a syedah marry to a non-syed in this case her children will not be syed* I'll personally want to quote my opinion that syedah is superior and syed families try to understand this thing and if a man willing to second or third marriage do allow to marry.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
On 2/15/2021 at 5:40 PM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Rabit you don't even know what are you posting.

In the end we agree such marriage is permissible and thats what this topic is related with. 

This topic has nothing to do with if children would be sadaat or not.

Sir you have to mention above in heading, or topic__ that if syedah marry to non-syed her children will not be syed. Because you're statement is creating confusion for those who have no any good knowledge about (or command on) fiqah . Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, Farva Batool said:

I disagree to this statement__ *Syeda Girl can also obey Non-Syed Husband without issue of Superiority*  __ basically here is a point which is important enough_ form *Islamic and Scientific both point of view progenitor is man* and doesn't matter woman belongs to syed or non-syed family but their children obviously will be syed. on the other hand *if a syedah marry to a non-syed in this case her children will not be syed* I'll personally want to quote my opinion that syedah is superior and syed families try to understand this thing and if a man willing to second or third marriage do allow to marry.

That's your personal opinion and in islamic things, especially shia islam it isn't halal for anyone of us shias to use one's own opinion in matters of religion.

This example can be justified very easily though. Everyone agrees that a Muttaqi person is superior to a less Mutaqqi person.

So if a person (man) is a common twelver like all other shias who believe in Allah, Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Imams and follow basics, can he marry a woman who is well versed in Quranic knowledge and Hadiths of AhleBait (عليه السلام) and does alot of ibadah?

That would make that woman far more superior to that common twelver but no one has ever said scholars can only marry scholars.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Guest UK123

I'm literally going through this exact topic. I'm a non syed boy & I've met the mother of whom I have the intention of marrying (syed girl) I have done everything the right way I chose to speak to the mother (dad no longer here) however, she said to me bibi fatima was the mother of islam, so her grandaughters are also the mothers of islam and so on and so forth, indicating that my potential wife would be my mother, hence making the marriage invalid. She also said I would be the best thing for her daughter, "but it's out of her hands" she even acknowledges that we would better each other in terms of our deen! But because nobody in her family or in the community have done it before - she can't do it. She then sent me a link to a youtube series supposedly explaining why it's basically shirk for her to let her daughter marry another MUSLIM. She would rather her daughter sits at home un married doing haram rather than accept this proposal... I don't understand this thinking & at the moment it seems like all hope is lost because she and her family are so fixated on this issue. What do I do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Guest UK123 said:

I'm literally going through this exact topic. I'm a non syed boy & I've met the mother of whom I have the intention of marrying (syed girl) I have done everything the right way I chose to speak to the mother (dad no longer here) however, she said to me bibi fatima was the mother of islam, so her grandaughters are also the mothers of islam and so on and so forth, indicating that my potential wife would be my mother, hence making the marriage invalid. She also said I would be the best thing for her daughter, "but it's out of her hands" she even acknowledges that we would better each other in terms of our deen! But because nobody in her family or in the community have done it before - she can't do it. She then sent me a link to a youtube series supposedly explaining why it's basically shirk for her to let her daughter marry another MUSLIM. She would rather her daughter sits at home un married doing haram rather than accept this proposal... I don't understand this thinking & at the moment it seems like all hope is lost because she and her family are so fixated on this issue. What do I do.

Man, what a logic!!

If all the females from the durriyah of Sayyida Zahra (عليه السلام) are Mothers of Islam (and thereby within the prohibited degree of marriage to non-Sadat) then by this logic all sayyid-to-sayyid marriages are incest!

I feel like banging my head against a wall after reading this!!

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

@Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi brother, quit trying!:hahaha: It's futile.

Those who had to understand your point would already have understood it by now, and those who do not wish to accept it will reject it even if Jibrail (عليه السلام) appeared in person to convince them!:hahaha:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Guest UK123 said:

I'm literally going through this exact topic. I'm a non syed boy & I've met the mother of whom I have the intention of marrying (syed girl) I have done everything the right way I chose to speak to the mother (dad no longer here) however, she said to me bibi fatima was the mother of islam, so her grandaughters are also the mothers of islam and so on and so forth, indicating that my potential wife would be my mother, hence making the marriage invalid. She also said I would be the best thing for her daughter, "but it's out of her hands" she even acknowledges that we would better each other in terms of our deen! But because nobody in her family or in the community have done it before - she can't do it. She then sent me a link to a youtube series supposedly explaining why it's basically shirk for her to let her daughter marry another MUSLIM. She would rather her daughter sits at home un married doing haram rather than accept this proposal... I don't understand this thinking & at the moment it seems like all hope is lost because she and her family are so fixated on this issue. What do I do.

We did respond to this topic here.

Bibi Fatimah technically won't be mother of Ummah as per ayah of Quran.

Mothers are the wives of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and they want to say that since we are daughters of Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) thus we are your sisters and marrying sisters is haram.

If you can, and if her mother listens, do explain to her mother that according to Quran, wives of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are mothers for you too as well as your husband.

So that would mean you and your husband were brothers and sisters as well?

Secondly ayah applies to all Muslims.

It means existing momin and momina are brother-sisters lol then whom shall we marry?

It means we can't marry anymore :sorry:

Else i believe nothing can be done. Wait for the day when you get rewarded for trials.

Have faith in Allah. This world is temporary. Afterlife is permanent.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

This repressive ideology of syed and non syed marriage has ruined too many lives to count.I know of two cases where both syeds each gender were scarred for life.

I can understand someone marrying in respective circles but why use religion to justify this.

I wish people would open to see the destruction this brings to lives of their kids.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

3 pages and going...

Yes plus I was desperately waiting for people who would try to refute what I wrote in this thread but none came :coffee:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Uk123
8 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

We did respond to this topic here.

Bibi Fatimah technically won't be mother of Ummah as per ayah of Quran.

Mothers are the wives of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and they want to say that since we are daughters of Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) thus we are your sisters and marrying sisters is haram.

If you can, and if her mother listens, do explain to her mother that according to Quran, wives of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) are mothers for you too as well as your husband.

So that would mean you and your husband were brothers and sisters as well?

Secondly ayah applies to all Muslims.

It means existing momin and momina are brother-sisters lol then whom shall we marry?

It means we can't marry anymore :sorry:

Else i believe nothing can be done. Wait for the day when you get rewarded for trials.

Have faith in Allah. This world is temporary. Afterlife is permanent.

I appreciate your response so much brother, could you tell me which ayahs you are referring to thank you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 3/7/2021 at 2:08 PM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Yes plus I was desperately waiting for people who would try to refute what I wrote in this thread but none came :coffee:

I wish I could insert the crying Wojack meme here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...