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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Hi Hasanhh,

To continue with the verses and content of 1 John 5:7-8.

The Douay Bible was the Catholic Version, and the King James was the Evangelical Version of Scripture from the 1600’s to about 1950. --- At about that time there was a shift in ‘theology.’

 --- The ‘School of higher learning,’ became critical of whatever they could, and after that, many new versions of Scriptures were produced. --- Some are good, some are ‘scholastic productions’ which are the work of linguists to get the translation right, or acceptable, in more contemporary language, but who were not necessarily guided by the Lord to give accurate spiritual emphasis. Therefore, they were more ‘linguists’ and professors of the new ‘liberal theology’ than Bible expositors. --- And they didn’t have the approval of all Churches. --- For instance, the very popular New International Version, the NIV, from about 1973 is a good work by many scholars from various denominations, but has its limitations.

--- The verses in question are written in the NIV this way: --- 1 John 5:7 “For there are three that testify 8 the[*] the Spirit the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.” --- [*] footnote, Late manuscripts of the Vulgate, testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)

Notice the difference  --- 7 “For there are three that testify 8 the[*] the Spirit the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.”

7 “For there are three that testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth: the Spirit the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.”

It is quite a strange statement to say, Not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century.” --- But there were no Greek Manuscripts written after the fourteenth century, were there? --- So it seems the new liberal theology scholars ‘took verse 7 out,’

They shorten verse 7 to these words, 7 “For there are three that testify” 8 (Is that a verse?)

The writing of the Gospel of John in Greek was perhaps done about 85 AD, and First John shortly thereafter. The manuscripts would be preserved and copies made.  

Quote from online: The system of chapters used today is usually credited to Stephen Langton, who served as Archbishop of Canterbury in the early 1200s, and their first use was in copies of the Latin Vulgate version. A 14th-century rabbi, Solomon ben Ishmael, seems to have adapted Langton’s chapter divisions for use in Hebrew Bibles, complementing the existing verse divisions in the Masoretic Text.

--- I believe it is quite evident that verse 7 was intact when the Scriptures were originally divided into verses and numbered.

Secondly the Latin Vulgate from 400 AD had to have had the full verse in the Greek Manuscript in order to be written in the Douay Bible.

Thirdly in the King James Version, they used different Greek Manuscripts and the verses must have been in some to be in the King James without a footnote questioning it.

--- Two things that have been changed in the ‘statements of faith’ in some ‘liberal theology’ Churches are that they believe ‘the age of healing and miracles is past,’ --- and they teach that Jesus, Christ, and the Word, are all one Person, so they deduce that ‘Jesus is God,’ which suits their understanding of the trinity.

The footnote from your Douay says, “The Holy See reserves to itself the right to pass finally on the origin of the present reading.” --- (They are their own authority.)

Blessings

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Hi Al-Muttaqin,

The bottom three sided image in your post has been used to present a trinity, but it is confusing and misleading because there is no trinity, though it has long been believed, but cannot be explained. --- However, there are ‘three in harmony.’

The way to make a diagram of God is simple. I could hesitate to do it as ‘we are not to make any image to represent God.’ --- But this geometric shape does not define God.

To do this you can take a piece of heavy paper about 3 or 4 inches square. Use a ruler and mark it from corner to corner making an X across the center. Cut one line from a corner to the center, then overlap one side and tape or paste it to make a three sided shape with the center raised.

The raised top represents ALMIGHTY GOD, the three corners represent, Jehovah, the Father; --- The Word (Logos); --- and the Holy Spirit.

It says in 1 John 5:7 “For there are three who bear witness in heaven: the Father (Jehovah), the Word  (John 1:1), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one (in unity and harmony).”

 

ALMIGHTY GOD is at the top or apex, Who is above us and is remote from us, and cannot be approached by sinful man. --- ALMIGHTY GOD is Master of His creation of galaxies, stars, and planets which were created through fire and fusion, and He could never come to earth, because His approaching presence would burn us to a crisp. (Consider the heat of the sun which is about 93 million miles away, but too bright to even look at. --- That is a thought about the Majesty and Greatness of GOD.)

But He delegated the continued ‘creation’ to those who serve Him, thus we have the ‘three in heaven’ who were involved in the creation of this ‘heaven and earth.’

Notice the wording in Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” --- The first thing to note is that the word for God is ‘Elohim’ (which is a plural name for God,), which is not the name GOD, capitalized for ALMIGHTY GOD. --- So let’s identify that this was God, Elohim, Jehovah.

2 “The earth was without form and void, and darkness was on the face of the deep.” --- This identifies our ‘earth’ does it not? --- Which was in space and covered with water, called ‘the deep.’

“And the Spirit of God was hovering (brooding) over the face of the waters.” --- This was the Holy Spirit that ‘began’ life in the sea. --- Even Scientists agree that life started in the sea.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

--- So ‘Light’ was brought in from an outside source, because it said ‘and darkness was on the face of the deep.’

--- Then we can go to John 1:1 which says, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

3 “All things were made through Him (the Word) and without Him nothing was made that was made.”

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 This man came as a witness to bear witness of the Light (notice the capital L on light), that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light that gives Light to every man that comes into the world. 10 He (the Word) was in the world, and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him.

14 “And the Word became flesh, (was represented in a body of flesh) and dwelt among us," (the men who observed Him).

--- So the Word was the 'true Light' that brought Light to the world.

Notice this again in Genesis 1:4 “And God saw the Light that it was good.”

--- Does this not reveal that it was not God Himself that brought the Light? --- And ‘He saw that it was good.’ --- (Did God not know what Light looked like?)

So the Word was there with Jehovah and the Holy Spirit, in the beginning of the forming and shaping of our earth with the atmosphere above it. --- How productive would a dark earth be without Light? --- The sun and moon were not put in place till the fourth day. --- So the Word was the Light of the World.

On in the Gospels when Jesus was teaching He said in John 10:5 “As long as I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.” The Word spoke through Jesus to say that He was the Light of the world in the Person of Jesus until Jesus was taken out of the world. --- So that is why the focus was always on Jesus as Savior and Redeemer.

I don’t know how interested you are in this subject, but when you used those misleading images I felt I should respond

Blessings

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12 hours ago, placid said:

But He delegated the continued ‘creation’ to those who serve Him, thus we have the ‘three in heaven’ who were involved in the creation of this ‘heaven and earth.

Isaiah 44:24 “Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone”

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12 hours ago, placid said:

which is a plural name for God,),

It’s an absolute singular why are you so stubborn and arrogant like ur trinitarian brothers. 

I gave an example of it being an absolute singular. 

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12 hours ago, placid said:

(notice the capital L on light)

Because the trinitarians believe it’s a person. And it is a person it’s jesus. John was a witness to Jesus’ before he was created. 

Edited by THREE1THREE

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Elohim

The first word translated as God in the Bible is found in Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” God here is from the Hebrew word Elohim. It is the most-often-used Hebrew word translated as God in the Old Testament. It is translated as God well over 2,300 times.

Elohim is revealed here as the Creator of the heavens and the earth.

However, that is not all that the word reveals. Elohim is a plural word. It is the plural of Eloah—a name that is only used 52 times in reference to the true God in Scripture (41 of those in the book of Job).

In Hebrew, when the “-im” suffix is added at the end of a word, it makes the word plural (much like the “-s” suffix in English and Spanish).

The context shows that Elohim can be used of the true God or of false gods. In fact, Elohim is translated as gods—in reference to false gods—over 240 times (for example, Exodus 20:23).

The fact that Elohim is a plural word also reveals a vital truth about the true God. It shows us that there is more than one member of the Godhead. We see this understanding of the plural nature of Elohim in Genesis 1:26:

“Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’”

Throughout the years, many theologians have grappled with the question of how God can be both singular and plural. The use of the plural noun Elohim in Genesis 1 introduces us to a truth that becomes clearer throughout the rest of the Bible: that God isn’t alone. He, along with the Word, dwelt together from eternity and are God. See John 1:1-3, 14.

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49 minutes ago, placid said:

However, that is not all that the word reveals. Elohim is a plural word. It is the plural of Eloah—a name that is only used 52 times in reference to the true God in Scripture (41 of those in the book of Job).

“Eloah” is terrible translation of “Allah” “Aleph lamed heh” 

It’s mistranslated also in the book of Ezra and Daniel, Jeremiah and Nehemiah. Jews say it’s “Allah” and make it clear that they care calling God “Allah”.

jesus called God “Allaha” in his Aramaic dialect. 

 

“Alohim” stems from the word “eloh” which simply means “god”,  the Hebrew readers know where the term “elohim” “god” also “gods” and “Alohim” is used.

the word “AL” in Hebrew means “Power” so when the Tanakh calls “God”  “Alohim” it’s actually a name meaning “powerful God” some say “Powers” since God has all powers and is the source of it. 

 

”Alohim” is different to “elohim”, their are many Hebrew words including “elohim” can be a plural or an absolute singular i gave you an example of the word “shamayim” which means “heaven” it can be plural “heavens” and also an absolute singular “heaven”. When “Alohim” is used the “Im” at the end is a plural of majesty/respect.

58 minutes ago, placid said:

The fact that Elohim is a plural word also reveals a vital truth about the true God. It shows us that there is more than one member of the Godhead.

How ironic when you say you don’t believe in a trinity when you are forming your own... double standards.

since you say “Godhead” who is the third person or the forth person? 

And that’s still polytheism. 

1 hour ago, placid said:

Throughout the years, many theologians have grappled with the question of how God can be both singular and plural. The use of the plural noun Elohim in Genesis 1 introduces us to a truth that becomes clearer throughout the rest of the Bible: that God isn’t alone. He, along with the Word, dwelt together from eternity and are God. See John 1:1-3, 14.

You desperately mistranslated them to suit ur own baseless doctrine. 

the word is God’s expression “Let their Be” it created everything including jesus. It’s not a person. 

John 1:1 

“in the beginning was the word(decree) and the word(decree) was with God(in God’s foreknowledge) and the word(decree) was divine(from God)”

God is alone and I’ve showed you that In the shema which affirms the Unitarian theology.

God makes it clear their is no one next to/beide Him.

“The Lord He is God; in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other” -Deuteronomy 4:39

Isaiah 44:24 “Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone”

1 Chronicles 17:20 “O Lord, there is none LIKE You, and there is no god BESIDE You according to all that we have heard with our ears.”

“You are the God, You ALONE, of all the kingdoms of the earth” -2Kings 19:15

“You are great, O Lord God; for there is non LIKE You, Nor there is any God BESIDE You” -2 Samuel 7:22

Before there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me” -Isaiah 43:10

“ I am the Lord, and there is no other; BESIDE Me there is no God” Isaiah 45:5 

“Is it not I, The Lord? And there is No other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior,There is none except Me” Isaiah 45:21

“I am God, and there’s no other; I am God, and there is no one LIKE Me” Isaiah 46:9 

“Hear O’Israel The Lord our God, The Lord is one” -Deuteronomy 6:4

the context is clear there is only one God! 

if you believe the Word is with God then that’s dualism, if you believe the Word and the other person make up a team called “God” thats also blasphemy ur definitely not worshipping God nor a monotheist.

the fact that you believe the Word is like God (i.e eternal/always exsisted) it contradicts scripture.

its either God is made up of two part (which nullifies God being the necessary existence), or their is a team called “God” which also contradicts scripture because that two persons are distinguished from each other which leads to dualism. 

1 hour ago, placid said:

‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; l

It’s actually, Genesis 1:27: “27And Alohim created man in His attributes; in the attributes of Alohim He created him; male and female He created them.”

in Hebrew it says “Taallem Alohim” which is an expression meaning “attributes of God” not image of God nowhere does it say that even orthodox Jews admit that. 

“26And God said, "Let Us make man in Our attributes, after Our attributes”

Over here God is addressing the angels.

what is meant be attributes is God’s qualities such as “mercy”, “compassion” and etc. now that does not mean we are like God an example is, God is all-seeing but humans aren’t but we do see but we have an organ to see; our sight is completely different to God’s so it is nowhere like God. We manifest a tiny portion of God’s qualities, the world manifests a tiny portion of God’s qualities.

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Quote: Isaiah 44:24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

Isaiah 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: am He, I am the First, am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;


16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.

 The speaker was the LORD of hosts, the Word, who was commissioned by the Lord GOD (and His Spirit) to go to earth as God (Theos), the Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.

 --- (In coming to earth He could say, "I, the LORD God (notice the small od on God), the Word, the Holy one of Israel, will teach you to prosper, and lead you by the way you should go. --- By the preaching of the Gospel, the Good News of Salvation."

 This was the preparation of the New Covenant to have the LORD of hosts, the Word go to earth as God (Theos), and to be represented in a human body as Savior, Messiah, Redeemer.

 John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (Theov) and the Word was God (Theos).”

1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”  

1:18 “No one has seen God (Theov) at any time, the only begotten God (Theos) who is in the bosom (close relationship) of the Father, He has declared Him.”  

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9 hours ago, placid said:

His Spirit Have sent Me.”

His angel. Go ask the Jews. 

You trinitarians are the worlds record on being completely stupid on the OT.

Isaiah 48:16-17

16Draw near to Me, hearken to this; in the beginning I did not speak in secret, from the time it was, there was I, and now, the Lord God has sent me, and His spirit.

17So said the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, "I am the Lord your God, Who teaches you for your profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.

Their is semicolon after “to this;” the speaker switches, it is prophet Isaiah speaking. The Jews know this very well when they are reading it in Hebrew. 

God is telling us to draw near to him by listening to prophet Isaiah God’s representative.

9 hours ago, placid said:

1:18 “No one has seen God (Theov) at any time, the only begotten God (Theos) who is in the bosom (close relationship) of the Father, He has declared Him.”  

Not monotheism. That’s Dualism; contradicts Deuteronomy 6:4 and again it contradicts the verses I showed you.

 

9 hours ago, placid said:

Isaiah 44:24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

 

“I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens ALL ALONE, who spreads the earth by MYSELF”

my argument still stands with the other verses 

12 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

“You are the God, You ALONE, of all the kingdoms of the earth” -2Kings 19:15

“You are great, O Lord God; for there is non LIKE You, Nor there is any God BESIDE You” -2 Samuel 7:22

Before there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me” -Isaiah 43:10

“ I am the Lord, and there is no other; BESIDE Me there is no God” Isaiah 45:5 

“Is it not I, The Lord? And there is No other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior,There is none except Me” Isaiah 45:21

 

9 hours ago, placid said:

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God (Theov) and the Word was God (Theos).”

1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”  

1:18 “No one has seen God (Theov) at any time, the only begotten God (Theos) who is in the bosom (close relationship) of the Father, He has declared Him.”  

John 1:1 In the beginning was the word(decree) and the word was with Allaha(ho theos/theov, In God’s foreknowledge) and divine[(theos) from God] was the word(decree).2It was with Allaha in the beginning. 3Through it all things were made; without it nothing was made that had been made.”4In it(the word) was life, and that life was the light(guide) of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome him.

Over here when it says “in it(i.e the word) was life” that life is jesus himself, jesus was also in God’s foreknowledge and part of God’s will and decree but was appointed at a certain point of time in this case, and the the passage says “and that life was the light of all mankind” the passage shows that Jesus was the light(meaning the guide) of all mankind, this passage shows that Jesus came to bring guidance and bring people to a righteous path and adhere to the radical monotheism which the prophets and Messengers before him taught to their own people and across other countries.

John 1:6-14

6There was a man sent from Allaha whose name was John. 7He came as a witness to bear witness about the light(Messenger), that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light(Messenger); but came to bear witness about the light(Messenger). 

9The true light(Messenger) that gives light(guidance) to everyone was coming into the world. 10It(the word) was in the world and, though the world was made through it(the word) the world did not recognise it(the word). 11He went to his own people, and his own people did not accept him. 12But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to be godly servants of Allaha 13They are reborn—not because of natural decent nor of the desire or will of mankind, but reborn for Allaha 14The word became flesh(God’s decree was manifested) and made its dwelling among us. We have seen it’s glory, the glory of the LORD’s one and only Messenger.

John1:1-3 is going back to the book of Genesis and summarising it. 

15John testified about him. He cries out, saying, “This was he whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was first.’”16Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.17 for the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus the Messiah.18no one has ever seen Allaha, but the one and only messenger who is in closest relationship with Allaha has made Him known. 

 

9 hours ago, placid said:

the Word go to earth as God (Theos),

2 chronicles 2:5 “5And who can gather up strength to build Him a House, for the heavens and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain Him(God), and who am I that I should build Him a House, only to burn incense before Him.”

2 chronicles 6:18 “18But will God indeed dwell with man on the earth? Behold the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You; much less this House that I have built.”

i don’t need to go again explain how you contradict the law and  prophets. 

You be stubborn all you want the Quran speaks of people like you, even if you were given a second chance you will still be stubborn against the truth.

Edited by THREE1THREE

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I see you are still ‘slapping.’ --- By the way, I didn’t write the definition of Elohim, but typed in “Names of God” and copied the description it gave on Elohim.

In using verses from Isaiah you continue to prove the Scriptures, so we can go over the verses again.

Quote:  44:24 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself.”

--- Perhaps it was the project of the Lord of hosts to spread out the heavens and earth by Himself, since it says in John 1:3 All things were made ‘through’ Him (the Word), and without Him nothing was made that was made.

However, it says in 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. --- (The ‘first and last’ is also mentioned as ‘Alpha and Omega,’ the first and last letters of the Greek Alphabet. --- This all identifies that the Word is God (Theos) in our world. --- He is responsible for the defeat of Satan, and the recovery of all things through Christ.

--- All of these titles refer to the LORD of hosts, who is the Word, through whom ‘all things were created,’ pertaining to our world. --- And The LORD of hosts was appointed as God (Theos) in this world to redeem mankind, --- ‘The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.’  

Again it is the LORD of hosts that says in 48:12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: am He, I am the First, am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens.”

It continues in 48:16 “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit[c] have sent Me.”

17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.

 So the LORD of hosts, the Word, is declaring in Isaiah to the Jews that He is the LORD their God. --- And coming to earth, being represented in the human body of Jesus Christ, He was the Redeemer.

 

--- One thing to note in verse 16 is a footnote on Spirit. --- It reads this way, “And now the Lord GOD and his Spirit[c] Have sent Me.”

 The footnote [c]   says --- or, has sent Me and His Spirit.

Both statements are right because the Lord GOD sent the LORD of hosts, the Word, --- and the Holy Spirit to earth to indwell men.

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16 minutes ago, placid said:

John 1:3 All things were made ‘through’ Him (the Word), and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Again it’s throught “it” only reason why it’s translated as him because the biased trinitarians make the word into a person. 

 

18 minutes ago, placid said:

because the Lord GOD sent the LORD of hosts, the Word, --- and the Holy Spirit to earth to indwell men.

Dualism and still contradicting monotheism i don’t care what ur rubbish Christian bible has to say.

8 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

Isaiah 48:16-17

16Draw near to Me, hearken to this; in the beginning I did not speak in secret, from the time it was, there was I, and now, the Lord God has sent me, and His spirit.

17So said the Lord, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, "I am the Lord your God, Who teaches you for your profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.

Their is semicolon after “to this;” the speaker switches, it is prophet Isaiah speaking. The Jews know this very well when they are reading it in Hebrew. 

God is telling us to draw near to him by listening to prophet Isaiah God’s representative.

Deuteronomy 6:4 

Mathew 5:17, Mark 10:28-29

my Argument still stands 

jesus denies being God aswell go read the Article again. 

And also being the “Son of God” read the article again. 

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Quote: ---Jesus denies being God as well go read the Article again. 

And also being the “Son of God” read the article again. 

 

Response: --- There is no place in Scripture where it said, "Jesus is God,"  nor where Jesus said "I am God." Only the Trinitarians say that.

Secondly, when He was conceived in Mary it says in Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.”

--- Jesus Christ represented the Word, --- but since Jesus was the only one who could be seen, it says, ‘He shall be “CALLED” the Son of God.’

He was only CALLED the Son of God, but the Trinitarians say 'he WAS the Son of God,' and then go beyond that to say that 'Jesus IS God.'

In the Spiritual realm as in the physical, a person cannot be father and son of the same being, at the same time.

Anyone who is called a ‘son’ is a second (third or fourth) generation.

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8 minutes ago, placid said:

will be called the Son of God.”

That was added by the Paulines the proper version is “he will be called the messanger of God” John the Baptist was called the prophet of the Most High God.

the fact that you believe jesus is the son of God you also fall in the category of believing Jesus is God except you believe he is subordinate to the Father and likewise with the Holy Spirit which then shows you subscribe to trithism. 

12 minutes ago, placid said:

Jesus Christ represented the Word,

Jesus was a manifestation of God’s decree the same way the heavens and the earth and what’s in it was a manifestation of God’s decree.

The fact that you believe jesus was eternal shows that you believe in two divine beings not one which contradicts the Law and the prophets. 

An example of one like Jesus is Prophet Jeremiah, Jeremiah 1:5 “5When I had not yet formed you in the womb, I knew you, and when you had not yet emerged from the womb, I had appointed you; a prophet to the nations I made you.”

 

Jesus explicitly rebukes being called the Son of God, 

Luke 4:41 

“41Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah.”

 

It is clear that Jesus rebuked them because they were calling him the literal son of God when deep down they knew he was the Messiah not the literal son of God as the verse clearly states. Jesus was already preaching and healing so demons and later on the Pharisees are trying their hardest to give a accusation in order to get him executed so Jesus was constantly explaining himself and being clever with his preaching. Verse 43 jesus explicitly says he must go preach the the good news of the covenant of God and in verse 42 people are tying to make him stay. So in short Jesus was already preaching and he had to face false accusations from the demons then later on the teachers of the law and the Pharisees.

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Hi Al-Muttaqin,

There is something I want to clarify on the post near the top about Genesis 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light, and there was light.”

And I said, ‘the Word was the Light that brought light to the world.’

1:4 “And God saw the light that it was good.” --- I believe that God saw the light as good, meaning, ‘sufficient or appropriate’ for the need. --- And God immediately used it in dividing the light from the darkness, giving ‘day’ and ‘night.’

I also said, ‘Since God is not spelled GOD, this identifies Him as God, Elohim, Jehovah.

To identify the Light we can go again to John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Elohim, Theov), and the Word was God (the LORD of hosts, Theos). 

2 He (the Word) was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him (the Word), and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him (the Word) was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it. --- [a] or overpower it. --- (Darkness does not have power over light, but rather darkness is dispelled or destroyed by light.)

John’s Witness: The True Light

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John (the Baptist). 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light (with a capital L), that all through him might believe. 8 He (John) was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light (the Word). 9 That (Word) was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He (the Word) was in the world, and the world was made through Him (John 1:3), and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own (domain or creation), and His own (people) did not receive Him. 

12 But as many as received Him (the Word, through believing in Jesus Christ), to them He gave the right (power or authority) to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but (born) of God. --- This means the ‘spiritual birth,’ where in John 3:3 Jesus said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

The Word Becomes Flesh

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we (John and Andrew) beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John (the Baptist) bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”

--- While Jesus was born six months after John the Baptist in Bethlehem, Christ, who indwelt Jesus, pre-existed the creation of the world, since Christ came down from heaven.

16 And of His (Christ’s) fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 

18 No one has seen God (Theov) at any time. The only begotten God/Son (Theos), who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

--- I wanted to include this about the Word and the Light, to show that they were involved in Genesis 1.

Blessings

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9 hours ago, placid said:

And I said, ‘the Word was the Light that brought light to the world.’

 

Wrong.

 

9 hours ago, placid said:

While Jesus was born six months after John the Baptist in Bethlehem, Christ, who indwelt Jesus, pre-existed the creation of the world, since Christ came down from heaven.

Also wrong, pagan Hellenistic beliefs, “Father is in heaven” “The son in heaven” 

 

9 hours ago, placid said:

I also said, ‘Since God is not spelled GOD, this identifies Him as God, Elohim, Jehovah.

Absolutely Baseless. Wishful thinking.

never do you see anywhere in the bible using “GOD” in full caps. 

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16 hours ago, placid said:

To identify the Light we can go again to John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Elohim, Theov), and the Word was God (the LORD of hosts, Theos). 

The Lord of hosts is Yahweh,Alohim, el Elyon, El shaddai. 

You deliberately misinterpret “theos” at the end. “Thoes” has many meanings if the Word was God then it would says “ton Theos” or “Ho theos” or “Theov” which are references to the one true God. And also what you show is not monotheism it’s dualsim, you’re pretty much saying another god was with God then that god was sent By God to earth. 

Alohim makes it clear no one is like Him which automatically means their is no Beside Him and he is Unique. 

 

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Quote: --- You’re pretty much saying another god was with God then that god was sent By God to earth. 

 

Response: --- Yes, I think you are finally getting it. --- There is only one Almighty and Everlasting GOD, --- But GOD can delegate whom He desires under Himself to duplicate or carry on His work.

To use a human example: Bill Gates was the CEO of Microsoft for many years. Now, because he has many companies and many charities, he has many CEO’s under him running his companies.

--- Why would God create many orders of angels, and not use any of them, but do everything Himself?

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10 hours ago, placid said:

Response: --- Yes, I think you are finally getting it. --- There is only one Almighty and Everlasting GOD, --- But GOD can delegate whom He desires under Himself to duplicate or carry on His work.

That’s dualism. Not monotheism again you’re contradicting monotheism I’ve shown you numerous of times how you are contradicting monotheism.

btw Jesus denies that. 

Rather Jesus just like the previous  prophets carried God’s commands and purpose.

Here’s an incident that refutes ur baseless claims 

Trinitarian:

"Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does (John 5:19).  We see the Son not only claiming to be God but also doing what he does. 

 

Reply 

 

Monotheist:

“Jesus is not claiming divinity at all over here, he is just saying that he does not follow his own inclinations rather it is naught but a revelation. In other words carry out God’s commands and purpose.

 

Let’s look at the context.

 

jesus healed a man on sabbath and was persecuted by the Jews. 

 

john 5:17In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the son also does.

Jesus was denying  divinity and being equal to God in the very first passage. If Jesus was divine then he can do things on his own because his god. And Jesus at the end makes it clear he is a Messenger of God. 

John 5:23 “23that all may honor the son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the son does not honor the Father, who sent him(Jesus). Also right after in verse 24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him(Allaha) who sent me(jesus) has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.” So if you testify like in John 17:3 that their is no god but Allaha and Jesus is his messanger the gates of salvation are unlocked. Now to walk in you need adhere to the law. 

And btw that was a clever alteration here’s what actually happened jesus didn’t call God his “Father” rather they misunderstand jesus. Here’s the actual incident.

 

17In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 

 

what jesus was trying to convey is that God is always carrying out his purpose and will; God has not abandoned it and he(jesus) is also carrying out God’s purpose and commands just like the previous prophets but the Jews misunderstood him thinking that he also works with God meaning created a purpose and a decree; taking that part literally not only did the Jews accuse him of breaking the sabbath but also accused him of making himself equal to God.

 

18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even making himself equal to God.

 

then jesus answered them back saying,

 

19Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the son also does.

 

thus jesus reply’s to them saying that he does not go by his own desires rather he carries out God’s purpose and commands , whatever God commands jesus does thus he is carrying out God’s purpose the same way God used previous prophets to carry out His purpose and commands. 

This is the actual incident.”

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--- So you say that Jesus is God, like the Trinitarians do, --- and where are the verses in Scripture which say that, “Jesus is God,” or where Jesus said, “I am God”?

I see that you like to use Scriptures in some places to present a truth, but you said this on page one:

 Quote: --- The gospels mainly Mathew and John had a massive influence on Pauls greek methodology since paul did a good job terrorising the original follower of Christ  and deceiving the Gentiles, the epistles of Paul predate all 4 gospels so when they (the 4 gospels) were written at that time Pauls teachings had the upper hand was wide spread so all of the Hellenistic beliefs were put in these gospel(s) and later on many manuscripts of these were fabricated for theological and political reasons.

--- This is quite a stretch from the truth and contradicts the message given to Muhammad in Surah 5:48 “To thee (Muhammad) We sent the Scripture in truth confirming the scriptures that came before it and ‘guarding it in safety.'

Or in your version, “And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and AS A CRITERION OVER IT.” --- Criterion means ‘a standard for judging,’ or ‘a yardstick.’ --- (Meaning, an accurate measurement of truth. If God is true, then His word is true.)

--- God revealed to Muhammad that the former Scriptures are true, and I believe it. After reading the ‘calling’ of Muhammad, and studying the Quran I believe that Muhammad was a Prophet of God who was used to deliver the people from idolatry and useless living, --- to the worship of One God, Al-lah, which means The God, or One God.

Since Muhammad was given the message that the former Scriptures are true, the Quran is based on them. --- If the former Scriptures are not true, then neither can the Quran be true.

--- Before we go further without the basis for belief, I want to show how the Gospels and manuscripts  were recorded. You can find most of this info that I will present in a good Bible Dictionary, or a Study Bible.

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After Jesus began His ministry He called the 12 disciples. One was Matthew, or Levi, who was a Jewish tax collector in Capernaum, on the North Western side of the Sea of Galilee. --- As a tax collector or ‘publican’ for the Roman Government he would not be well liked and seemingly a poor choice for a disciple and Apostle of Christ.

However, Matthew was a businessman and some said, ‘may have known the shorthand of that day.’ --- He maybe saw Jesus many times, as Capernaum became the home base for Jesus and the disciples as they fished and travelled on the Sea of Galilee. --- It is understood that Matthew became the ‘scribe’ or ‘secretary’ for Jesus.

--- He could write while Jesus was speaking, and since they travelled together, they could check for accuracy before the stories were distributed locally. So Matthew would have the accurate teaching of Jesus written in Aramaic, or Hebrew.

Matthew wrote a first 'Gospel' from this first hand recording and it would be distributed in Israel in part as ‘the news of the day.’ --- After the death and resurrection, and the 'Great Commission' where Christ said, “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel,” --- they would no doubt each have a copy of the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew as their text book.

--- You can find a record online of the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew.  Also, I have this:

 Jerome in ‘Illustrious Men’ provides an extensive historical confirmation of Papias (Born before AD 70 –died in 155 AD). --- "Matthew, also called Levi, who used to be a tax collector and later an apostle, composed the Gospel of Christ, which was first published in Judea in Hebrew script for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed. This Gospel was afterwards translated into Greek. Now this Hebrew original is preserved to this day  (the day of the writing) in the library at Caesarea, which Pamphilus the Martyr so diligently collated. I have also had the opportunity of having this volume transcribed for me by the Nazarenes of Beroea, Syria, who use it."

Historians point out that during the formative years of Early Christianity, the position of Papias was corroborated by more than 75 ancient witnesses who testified to the fact that this Hebrew Gospel was in wide circulation. Twelve of the Early Church Fathers testified that it was written by the Apostle Matthew. No ancient writer either Christian or Non-Christian challenged these two facts.

Many of the early "church fathers" also acknowledged that the statements of Jesus recorded in the gospels were in Hebrew. For example, Papias, a second century Church father, is quoted by the historian Eusebius: "Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could" (Ecclesiastical History, III,39,1), and Iraneus (c. 200 AD) wrote: "Matthew issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect." Later, the famous translator Jerome wrote about a Hebrew Gospel he used to translate the Scriptures into Latin. (The Latin Vulgate.)

 

Quote from online: “All of our surviving versions are in Greek. But the early Fathers of the Church (Irenaeus, Jerome, Eusebius) tell us that Matthew first wrote his Gospel in Hebrew. Saint Jerome tells us that a Hebrew version of Matthew was still extant in his day at the library in Caesarea or Alexandria.  Eusebius tells us that Pantaenus, the missionary, went to India, and was told by the locals that Bartholomew the Apostle had brought the Gospel of Matthew, written in Hebrew, to India in the first century.”

--- This is enough history, but rather than let it get too long, I will continue later.

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1 hour ago, placid said:

Or in your version, “And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and AS A CRITERION OVER IT.” --- Criterion means ‘a standard for judging,’ or ‘a yardstick.’ --- (Meaning, an accurate measurement of truth. If God is true, then His word is true.)

The verse proves my point muhammad came to confirm the truth within the gospel(s) and Tanakh and the Quran is the measuring rod which shows all the truth that is contained within them and confirms them. Ur argument is rubbish and I’ve already shown that.

 

1 hour ago, placid said:

the worship of One God, Al-lah, which means The God, or One God.

Allah is a name the same way it’s a name in the book of Ezra, Daniel, Jeremiah.

1 hour ago, placid said:

Before we go further without the basis for belief, I want to show how the Gospels and manuscripts  were recorded. You can find most of this info that I will present in a good Bible Dictionary, or a Stud

All Pauline epistles predate the Gospel(s) my Argument stands.

even in Paul’s the imposters time their was another gospel which existed that gospel was the true gospel. At Paul’s time there was  two gospels one was the gospel of Jesus and the other gospel of Paul, none of them exist today. Later on these 4 gospel(s) were chosen out of the many other gospel(s) to be canonised in the second canonised bible(the peshetta) before that all sects had their own gospel and didn’t have the same gospel(s) like all “Christians” do today. Marcion was the first person to canonise a bible which had the gospel according to Luke and the Pauline epistles. 

The 4 gospel(s) authors are anonymous and vast majority of scholars agree so your arguments are just mere wishful thinking and fantasies. 

Again like I have presented, the Law and the prophets are your measuring rod. I’ve shown a good example which you arrogantly just like your Evangelical and trinitarian breathrens deny. 

1 hour ago, placid said:

Irenaeus, Jerome, Eusebius)

These “church fathers” are all Pauline and Eusebius is know for talking rubbish about other sects and so as the others obviously he is gonna suger coat the gospel to his liking to support is pagan theology. 

Again the bread winners have the upper hand so they are gonna suger coat history and gospel to their liking.

No point of arguing with if your deny clear verses with its arguments that being presented to you it’s like talking to brick wall. I’d love to see your excuse infront of Allah after  these clear verses and arguments have been shown to you.

 

Edited by THREE1THREE

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1 hour ago, placid said:

God revealed to Muhammad that the former Scriptures are true, and I believe it. After reading the ‘calling’ of Muhammad, and studying the Quran I believe that Muhammad was a Prophet of God

Muhammad clearly rebuked the teaching of jesus being the Son of God and you can see clear as daylight the stories of Moses and other prophets differ slightly from the Tanakh. 

Surah 5:72

They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he WHO ASSOCIATES others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

you saying jesus is divine is shirk let alone with God. 

surah 5:77

Say, "O People of the Scripture, do not EXCEED LIMITS IN YOUR RELIGION BEYOND THE TRUTH and do not follow the inclinations of a people who had gone astray before and misled many and have strayed from the soundness of the way."

Surah 2:79

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

Surah 2:116

They say, " Allah has taken a son." Exalted is He! Rather, to Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and the earth. All are devoutly obedient to Him,

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---As stated, Matthew wrote a first Gospel in Hebrew for the Jews, which was distributed in Israel. --- Since Greek had become the language of commerce the Greek translations were made for the widening spread of the Gospel wherever the Christians were scattered.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are called the ‘Synoptic Gospels,’ (the sense of the word ‘synoptic’ in English, that is specifically applied to these three Gospels is, "giving an account of the events from the same point of view or under the same general aspect")

The reason these Gospel accounts are similar is because the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke in Greek follow the format of Matthew’s Gospel in Hebrew, which they would have used till then. They are not full translations as they are adapted for the different readership.

Matthew --- wrote again in Greek for the Hebrews, and Greek speaking Jews in Israel, using many prophecies and genealogies from the OT. --- It was no doubt written in the 60’s.

Mark --- was written in Rome in collaboration with Peter, as they went to Rome in the 50’s. --- Mark is a shorter Gospel, not including much Jewish history, as it was written for the Romans, where Peter and Mark were ministering. --- Perhaps written in the early 60’s

Luke --- was the only non Jewish author in the Bible. He was a Greek Historian who wrote both his Gospel and the Book of Acts, as he joined Paul on his missionary journey, and accompanied him to Rome. --- They suggest that Luke may have made the final format in Greece, writing them for a Greek readership, and dedicating both writings to the Greek, Theophilos. --- No doubt written in the later 60’s, but before 70 when the Temple, and much of Jerusalem were destroyed.

John --- wrote his ‘general Gospel’ much later and would have access to the other Gospels as well as the Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew, so, while he was there at the time, he didn’t repeat all the parables and miracles, but includes other history and concentrates on the Spiritual truths that were revealed to him in his ministry. He also wrote 1st,  2nd,  and 3rd John, before he wrote the ‘Revelation.’ --- His Gospel was written no doubt in the 80’s.

--- The Manuscripts in Greek were well preserved and used later in English and other translations. --- When God said. ‘The Scriptures are true, He meant it, because the New Testament Gospels were written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

In the same way that ‘prophecies’ were revealed in the OT, Peter said in 2 Peter 1:16 “For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 

17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 

18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. Matthew 17:1-6.

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 

20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 

21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved (inspired) by the Holy Spirit.

--- Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

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9 hours ago, placid said:

As stated, Matthew wrote a first Gospel in Hebrew for the Jews, which was distributed in Israel

The church father that’s says this was born in in the early 3rd century.... very desperate attempt. 

 

9 hours ago, placid said:

Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

Omar claimed he is Caliph after Muhammad.

 

 

iraneus was a trinitarian.... obviously he is gonna claim the texts are persevered to support the trinity. When 4 gospels were written it was in Greek not in Hebrew only later on some were written in Hebrew and Aramaic.

its funny how you say it was written in Hebrew, jesus and the disciples spoken Aramaic so the gospel would be written in Aramaic not Hebrew at that time the Aramaic language was prominent. 

Papias was born when Pauline teaching has already been established and pomminent also he was a Pauline

the 4 gospels have been altered and infact their were many versions of them and they just chose ones that they think they would be able to fit their doctrine after they had chosen them particular four gospels out of all the other gospels. 

1 John 5:7 is an example. 

Again like I told you that authors of 4 GOSPELS are unknown you saying they were written by the disciples is a joke and you have no evidence just mere wishful thinking and fantasies.

Here’s a another one which proves that alterations did take place.

The following excerpts come from a slightly unaltered version of gospel according to Matthew that were probably copied from the original manuscript written by Matthew; which is now lost and cannot be found. Thus Eusebius informs us of the actual words Jesus spoke to his disciples in Matthew 28:19.

“With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you,” — (Proof of the Gospel by Eusebius, Book III, ch 6, 132 (a), p. 152)

Who said to them; “Make disciples of all the nations in my Name.” — (Eusebius, Proof of the Gospel, Book III, Chapter 7, 138 (c), p. 159)

In Book III of his History, Chapter 5, Section 2, which is about the Jewish persecution of early Christians, we read, “relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, “Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name.”

And in his Oration in Praise of Emperor Constantine, Chapter 16, Section 8, we read, “Surely none save our only Savior has done this, when, after his victory over death, he spoke the word to his followers, and fulfilled it by the event, saying to them, “Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name.”

“I saw that God had especially guarded the Bible; yet when copies of it were few, learned MEN HAD IN SOME INSTANCES CHANGED THE  WORDS, thinking that they were making it more plain, when in reality they were mystifying that which was plain, BY CAUSING IT TO LEAN TO THIER ESTABLISHED VIEWS, WHICH WERE GOVEREND BY TRADITION.” — (E.G. White, EW, 220.2, 1882)

 

this is is sufficient proof that alterations took place and if you had a half a brain you would know no canonised bible exisisted until marcion formed his own one which included the Pauline epistles and had the gospel according to Luke. Each sect had their own gospel. 

All alterations were taken place for theological and political reasons.

like I did the law and the prophets are your measuring rod and I’ve presented an example.

 

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11 hours ago, placid said:

2 Peter

The epistles which are attributed to peter are not actually written by peter, rather it was written by a follower of Paul who attributed it to Peter in hopes to increase Paul’s Hellenistic belief. 

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Quote from above post: The following excerpts come from a slightly unaltered version of gospel according to Matthew that were probably copied from the original manuscript written by Matthew; which is now lost and cannot be found. Thus Eusebius informs us of the actual words Jesus spoke to his disciples in Matthew 28:19.

“With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you,” — (Proof of the Gospel by Eusebius, Book III, ch 6, 132 (a), p. 152)

Who said to them; “Make disciples of all the nations in my Name.” — (Eusebius, Proof of the Gospel, Book III, Chapter 7, 138 (c), p. 159)  

(You are suggesting it as Eusebius that said the words.)

Response: ---

This is the full text in Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,’ baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 

20 ‘teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;’ and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Here Christ was speaking in what is called ‘The Great Commission,’ to empower the disciples to go and preach the Gospel, and ‘make disciples in His name.’ --- Notice that it doesn’t say ‘names,’ but in the ‘name’ (singular), and Christ represented the authority of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit when He said, “All authority has been given to Me.”

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On 6/28/2020 at 5:46 AM, THREE1THREE said:

The epistles which are attributed to peter are not actually written by peter, rather it was written by a follower of Paul who attributed it to Peter in hopes to increase Paul’s Hellenistic belief. 

1] Basically correct. 3Peter and 4Peter were outright rejected in the Fourth Century. 2Peter was "disputed". There were very few questions about 1Peter. The primary doctrines of the new church they were forming were already decided, so 'the writings' were judged in that light.

2] Satan-Saul who became St. Paul was not a "Hellenist". He was a Babylonian Jew.

Edited by hasanhh

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Hi,

I think it is time to start taking things seriously. The world is in great difficulty as we see chaos in many areas, coupled with this corona virus which has brought the world to its knees.

These words were written in Luke 21:25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

This day is closer that we may think, and this is why I say ‘we should be serious.’

Let’s face this fact, “We didn’t ask to be born.” Most of us were born into families that wanted us, or accepted us when we came along, and they raised us and educated us as much as they could for us to make our way in an unfriendly, and often, hostile world.

“Did you ask to be born?” “No.” --- And neither did I. --- So our prospect is that ‘if we are not saved out of this world, we will be destroyed with it.’

I have studied the Book of Daniel with its many prophecies, but it has pictures of heaven, and this is one of them. --- (The word ‘million’ is not used in Scripture, so large numbers are expressed this way.)

Daniel 7:9 “I watched till thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

--- All of these millions were happy in heaven, and the setting seems that they were waiting for more saved ones to join them, who would be judged righteous, out of the record books.

I have the assurance that there is a heaven, and we have to be attentive to God to know the way to it.

28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Some of the signs mentioned are strange and extreme weather conditions, as well as famines, earthquakes, and ‘pestilences,’ which can be ‘infectious diseases, which are mentioned in Matthew 24.

Please don’t be offended with what I say, but be thoughtful. --- ‘We didn’t ask to be born,’ did we? --- But we can find out what God requires of us.

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2 hours ago, placid said:

This is the full text in Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 

 

He was quoting the full text. In the book of acts never do you see the disciples baptising in the name OF the Father and OF the Son and OF the Holy Spirit. I challenge you to find any of the 12 disciples baptising like that in the book of Acts.

this just shows your arrogance once again. 

Edited by THREE1THREE

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

Hellenist

He was a Hellenistic Jew he was also using the Hellenistic version of the Old Testament called “Septuagint” which was create by the church fathers. This Greek “Tanakh” teribbly mistranslated so many passages even the Jews were complaining since they altered some parts of the Law which goes against Deuteronomy 13:1(Tanakh).

Do bring evidence that Paul was a Babylonian Jew though intrested to see. 

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36 minutes ago, placid said:

“I watched till thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool.

Read Exodus 20:3-4, Deuteronomy 4:15-19.

37 minutes ago, placid said:

These words were written in Luke 21:25

Mark and Mathew are the proper closest version.

Luke is just a mixture and a copy of some other gospel. 

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1 hour ago, THREE1THREE said:

Do bring evidence that Paul was a Babylonian Jew though intrested to see. 

l had to go and look it up. Satan-Saul was born in Tarsus. His teacher was Gamiel (sp?) who was a Pharasee, the movement that developed during the Babylonian exile. So in that sense, he was a Babylonian Jew --as we had in class.

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59 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l had to go and look it up. Satan-Saul was born in Tarsus. His teacher was Gamiel (sp?) who was a Pharasee, the movement that developed during the Babylonian exile. So in that sense, he was a Babylonian Jew --as we had in class.

The Babylonian Jews didn’t have Paul’s beliefs it was the Hellenistic Jews that did.

Paul was making such claims but even rabbi’s expose him, Paul the imposter wasn’t taught by Gamiel. 

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