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In the Name of God بسم الله
ali_fatheroforphans

Online platforms aren't the best for marriage

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Salam,

I want to list some important points why I feel online platforms aren't the best. I have heard of many success stories (even on Shiachat lol) but overall the negatives, especially if someone lacks the  real world experience, can be far greater and can potentially lead to hurt etc. 

(1) Woman get desensitized.  For example, women on these online marriage platforms, instagram, muzmatch etc. Are approached by multiple men. It is a fact that if a woman is decent looking, uploads a picture of herself wearing the hijab, post all these Islamic quotes, they will have hundreds of men propose to them. This could work both ways, but men don't get approached as much. When they get desensitised, we're not that special to them anymore. Some naive men may put all there hopes in getting to know one sister yet they are unaware that they are considered to be bots. This could go both ways, but men generally don't get approached as much imo. 

(2) Online platforms aren't the place to get intimate. The real issue is when people use these platforms for a full on relationship. Let me put it this way - say you had been sharing your deepest secrets in life, throwing in thousands of love emojis, staying up all night feeling so attached. But, you found out that the whole time it was someone you never could have imagined. The fact is - we're not falling in love with the person. If a bot was getting intimate with us, we would still feel the same way.

(3) Prioritise face to face interactions or over the phone (better than nothing)

Use these platforms to simply arrange meetups (within boundaries and with a guardian). Put the person on the spot and trust me, you'll find out so much more about someone's character. People have the time to be fake online, they can decieve us by crafting an amazing response to our questions. In real life we can read other people's body language, facial expressions etc. we can imagine waking up next to the person everyday. It's a waste of time "getting to know" someone online.

(4) People aren't serious. Now let me roast men for a bit - yeah, many men just love the experience of swiping through and seeing multiple women. It's thrilling for them and they just love the "feeling". Many people are bored and lonely in real life, so some simply use these platforms to fill their boredom and just find someone to talk to (they basically waste someone else's time). I'm not saying the majority are like this, but they do exist for sure.

This is just my humble opinion. I hope you all can keep these points in mind before using such platforms. Don't put all your hopes on marriage sites etc. Don't ever let anyone decieve you, don't get offended if you ever get rejected, don't consider your success online as an indicator of who you truly are. Remember that it's not real! Focus on approaching people, getting to know your potential spouse in the real world. Don't miss out on these real world experiences, especially if you live in a Shi'a populated city.

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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Got married through a website years ago, and I had experience with them back in the day.

17 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Some naive men may put all there hopes in getting to know one sister yet they are unaware that they are considered to be bots. This could go both ways, but men generally don't get approached as much imo.

I have seen this many times.

17 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Online platforms aren't the place to get intimate. The real issue is when people use these platforms for a full on relationship. Let me put it this way - say you had been sharing your deepest secrets in life, throwing in thousands of love emojis, staying up all night feeling so attached. But, you found out that the whole time it was someone you never could have imagined. The fact is - we're not falling in love with the person. If a bot was getting intimate with us, we would still feel the same way.

If it’s a long distance online communication, there’s often an extensive period before an in person meeting is considered. People want to make sure it’s worth the expense and effort, so this incentivizes more talking over this long trial period. Also, the ease of communication through text and messaging makes “intimacy” easier.

 

17 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

(4) People aren't serious. Now let me roast men for a bit - yeah, many men just love the experience of swiping through and seeing multiple women. It's thrilling for them and they just love the "feeling". Many people are bored and lonely in real life, so some simply use these platforms to fill their boredom and just find someone to talk to (they basically waste someone else's time). I'm not saying the majority are like this, but they do exist for sure.

I didn’t spend time talking with men in these sites, so I haven’t witnessed what you’re saying first hand.

I have seen and talked with women who were not serious, “testing the waters”, and just seeing how much attention they could get. It was related to age. The younger ones were more likely to be like this, but less so for the older profiles.

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11 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

in the span of some few days/weeks you been creating all these topics about relationships and marriage etc.

Are you planning to become a full time relationship counselor

The irony is that the majority of self appointed 'marriage experts' on this forum are unmarried. It's a trend that I've noticed since 15 years on SC. 

There are some exceptions, a notable one being brother @Abu Hadi who provides excellent insight based on knowledge and experience. 

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

@ali_fatheroforphans Ok, then what is the solution? I mean it's not like I really have a choice anyway, brother, but as you know already, SC is my only access to a Shia community. 

The online platform is a solution. Many have found their spouse in this manner and are living happy married lives alhamdulillah. Obviously like all things in life one has to be alert and use some common sense, but in many ways the online platform is a blessing. 

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1 hour ago, Mahdavist said:

The irony is that the majority of self appointed 'marriage experts' on this forum are unmarried. It's a trend that I've noticed since 15 years on SC. 

I mean this fits you to a T, @ali_fatheroforphans, as far as I know you aren't married yourself. So what is the point of this thread?  You have to yet to reply to me on what you think the solution is. What is the solution for people such as me? Marriage is not a place for starry eyed idealism, this is reality, a solemn contract between man and woman, the joining of two families and worship of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

 

20 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

(3) Prioritise face to face interactions or over the phone (better than nothing)

Use these platforms to simply arrange meetups (within boundaries and with a guardian). Put the person on the spot and trust me, you'll find out so much more about someone's character. People have the time to be fake online, they can decieve us by crafting an amazing response to our questions. In real life we can read other people's body language, facial expressions etc. we can imagine waking up next to the person everyday. It's a waste of time "getting to know" someone online.

To the part I've boldened: That is utter nonsense and again, talking on the phone or getting to see people isn't really an option for me, at least not during this pandemic. It's extremely hard and stressful talking on the phone, plus you still can't see body language (unless you video call), so what's the difference between the phone or email, we still have to have to be exceedingly careful.

Also, I think you're being painfully naive and it shows. People can also equally as deceptive through the phone or in person, mark my words: Someday, you'll understand just how deceptive a woman can be on the phone or video chat, it's not fun at all. I'm speaking from experience, something you are clearly lacking.

Also, I'm getting tired of you pedaling your assumptions and sweeping judgments as the gospel truth. You know nothing when it comes to relationships, all you know is you saw your sister reject men because they weren't very attractive or presentable to her.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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Guest SoFar

Online dating can be great, but weeding out the losers, time-wasters, idiots, and socially awkward people is a pain and for some, not worth it. 

But to make an entire post about how online dating is not real, that people are faking it, and are set out to deceit others is also incredibly pessimistic. Usually, people who have red flags and are deceitful, wether online or in person, will be obvious. It’s up to the individual to listen to their intuition at that point. 

When you’ve been talking online for months, you can decipher what kind of person he or she is. Although the meeting isn’t in person, you can still get a feel for their mannerisms, their expressions, and body-language. And if you’ve been talking for a while and remain logical and vulnerable at the same time to make a connection and see the person for how he or she is, there shouldn’t really be any major surprises. Those who usually are cat-fished from online dating are usually really inexperienced or really stupid. 

It’s also hard to fake things when you’ve been talking for a significantly longer period and are looking at things from all angles. People who are not serious tend to ghost or they break off the relationship usually before or around the six month period. 

From my own experience, I married someone I met online. I know some people who have dipped their toes into the online dating world. For some it has worked, and they’re now happily married. And for many, it hasn’t. 
 

 

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49 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

 

To the part I've boldened: That is utter nonsense and again, talking on the phone or getting to see people isn't really an option for me, at least not during this pandemic. It's extremely hard and stressful talking on the phone, plus you still can't see body language (unless you video call), so what's the difference between the phone or email, we still have to have to be exceedingly careful.

 

Correct brother. I can confirm that I only communicated via email with my wife while we got to know one another before deciding to get married. 

I believe you summarized it best here:

Marriage is not a place for starry eyed idealism, this is reality, a solemn contract between man and woman, the joining of two families and worship of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

100 percent correct and as long as both partners keep this in mind then the marriage works very well, alhamdulillah. 

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6 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

The irony is that the majority of self appointed 'marriage experts' on this forum are unmarried. It's a trend that I've noticed since 15 years on SC. 

There are some exceptions, a notable one being brother @Abu Hadi who provides excellent insight based on knowledge and experience. 

This statement is very precise.

5 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Yess a part-time one inshallah. I would love helping couples inshallah 

May I ask why couples would listen to your advice?

 

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Online platforms can be an excellent resource for finding a potential spouse as long as one understands the pitfalls around the issue. I would describe them as a database of leads, but one has to then do the legwork, research and due diligence. Whilst they're not a perfect solution for finding the right spouse, they can be a lifeline for many who don't have access to such potential leads otherwise. 

I would suggest to keep a number of things in mind when searching for a spouse online:

1- It's a lot easier to project a fake persona online, therefore face to face interactions are very important.

2- To get a good idea of a person's character, one must be able to see their interactions not only with them personally but also with people in the community at large. This would be very difficult online.

3- Much of the emotions/tone/body language are lost and unaccounted for in digital communication.

So in a nutshell, whatever due diligence/risk assessments one does when seeking a spouse in the community, it would be the same that one needs to do online, plus a little bit more due to reasons such as the above.

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If one chooses to look for a spouse online, they need to be intelligent and wise into what they are really putting themselves in. People are given the opportunity to use these online platforms because it is hard nowadays to find someone suitable in this society. So it does benefit in a lot of ways. Long distance relationships can work too, but that's where maturity comes into place. If you're serious about getting married to someone you met online, you need to defy all the odds of what could happen if she/he came, how would you tell your family, what are the risks, etc. Marriage does not come easy, but I don't know how difficult it can be either because I myself have not been in that position yet. its about not scratching the surface and actually looking deeper as to how such a marriage would work, whether it is someone from online or in person, you still need to face the same consequences and all the ups and downs that comes with it. I do agree people can catfish, but that's the part where you need to be smart enough to realise whose fooling you and who isn't. 

And no offense to @ali_fatheroforphans but alot of the points that you make are somewhat right but at the same time very contradictory. You are saying these things based on your own experience (you should have made that clear at the start too). Not everyone can meet up face to face with who they desire to marry, because they most likely aren't able to leave the house or they may live in a different state, their community may lack Muslim girls who have strong faith. You never know, there are people who are not only older but also more mature to make wiseful decisions and find other alternatives to get married. 

 

10 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

You know nothing when it comes to relationships, all you know is you saw your sister reject men because they weren't very attractive or presentable to her.

I agree with everything you said in your post, but this, you really should take that back. You're making an assumption and also attacking his sister when you know nothing about her. Imagine someone degrading your own sister like that.

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1 hour ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

I agree with everything you said in your post, but this, you really should take that back. You're making an assumption and also attacking his sister when you know nothing about her. Imagine someone degrading your own sister like that.

No, I'm not attacking or assuming anything about his sister, nor did I intend to degrade her, based on what Ali said, I think she was well-within her rights to do so. I'm saying that it doesn't make Ali qualified to talk about the subject, just because he was there. He's not and again, it shows.

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8 hours ago, 3wliya_maryam said:

You're making an assumption and also attacking his sister when you know nothing about her. Imagine someone degrading your own sister like that.

Yes sister, I never liked what he said.

@Gaius I. Caesar You always get personal man. Don't get deep into my life. It's just my opinion in an online forum. Keep my sister and personal life out of the equation. 

 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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Wow you guys need to take what I said with a pinch of salt. Some users are talking about my sister while others are making assumptions and dwelling into my personal life by saying that I'm unmarried. To all the married brothers who found their wives by communicating online via email, zoom, shiamatch or whatever - that's good and it still doesn't give you a right to belittle my opinion. You got married, alhumdulillah I'm glad you found success on this platform.

Remember- this is an 'opinion'. Also many users didn't like my point about face to face interactions. Yes, the fact remains, we humans prefer face to face interactions. Online platforms are not a place to be intimate etc. It's a place where we can investigate someone to some degree (if we're wise and intelligent), but not a place where one should try to establish a deep emotional connection. 

There are dangers that come with online platforms and I won't recommend it to a naive youth who has little experience of the real world. If someone doesn't live in a Shi'a populated city, then they got no option. I clearly said "especially if you live in a Shi'a populated city." 

 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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19 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

The irony is that the majority of self appointed 'marriage experts' on this forum are unmarried

Again a very cheeky jab at me, very disrespectful especially for someone who is married. You should accept difference in opinion and encourage those younger than you rather than displaying a "superior", "intellectual" attitude and belittling someone just cos he's unmarried.

 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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23 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Again a very cheeky jab at me, very disrespectful especially for someone who is married. You should accept difference in opinion and encourage those younger than you rather than displaying a "superior", "intellectual" attitude and belittling someone just cos he's unmarried.

It's in the presentation. Your post gives the appearance of authority and professional advising, when maybe that wasn't the intention. 

1. Put a disclaimer upfront you're unmarried, and not a qualified matchmaker or counselor. I know it sounds redundant, but it always has to be done.  

2. Phrase your opinions as rhetorical questions. Instead of the title being "Online platforms aren't the best for marriage", it could be "Are online platforms the best for marriage?". Your opinions can also be placed as questions. "Perhaps face to face communication is most ideal?", "Perhaps there's a chance people aren't serious on these sites?". By asking, not telling, members will think more, and it will show you as more open minded and inquisitive. 

3. Use either statistical data, cite some authoritative source, or at the least, state our own anecdotal experiences. Those are always of value. 

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3 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Again a very cheeky jab at me, very disrespectful especially for someone who is married. You should accept difference in opinion and encourage those younger than you rather than displaying a "superior", "intellectual" attitude and belittling someone just cos he's unmarried.

 

It's not personal brother, just a trend that I've noticed on this forum over the years.

Every now and then you get unmarried people making post after post and topic after topic about marriage, with lots of authoritative statements despite not having any first hand experience of married life. 

At times like this I miss the input of veterans like brother Abu Hadi and some others. 

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2 hours ago, Reza said:

It's in the presentation. Your post gives the appearance of authority and professional advising, when maybe that wasn't the intention. 

True, and the ironic part is that one doesn't even need to ask if the person making the posts have first hand experience or not because it becomes quite obvious from the content that they don't. 

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4 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

You always get personal man. Don't get deep into my life. It's just my opinion in an online forum. Keep my sister and personal life out of the equation. 

I'm merely pointing out what you said in the past on previous threads and in doing so, I'm saying this: Chaperoning is not a substitute for having experience in a relationship. You're not experienced yet to giving relationship advice. I'm not saying it's a bad thing but you seem to gravitate towards idealism, which is not appropriate for human relationships. Also, while you're absolutely right about online relationships being more investigative than "intimate", the truth is that takes two to tango and the online is very much real and can be just as intimate.

 

Also, if a person decides waste time or be deceptive, they don't necessarily need to be a stranger. They could someone that you known for years, as was in my situation. Didn't matter that we talked on the phone, video chatted or whether how we long we knew each other. She still chose to be a time waster. So your idea that people need physical contact or body language to make it "real " rings hollow. 

Mahdavist and Reza bring out good points as well. And if you still offended, I'm sorry but perhaps you should look for a different part time job or perhaps wait until you're actually married if it is something you are interested in. @ali_fatheroforphans

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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Guest here!Monad
On 6/7/2020 at 4:28 AM, starlight said:

Allah opens doors from places we cannot imagine. He is Al Fattah- the Opener. Inshallah a door will be opened for you very soon. 

The only way this can happen is, if the single guy groupies create online profiles on dating sites and give us feedback in six months of their experience. Let see if their depiction of faith contradicts their experience and thier own realities. :eat:

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