Is KHUMS really 20% high????

[Man Kunto Maula 47]

Many of my friends have asked me to inquire if khums is really 20% of our savings/ income.. as this would be too much meaning that for every 1 lakh , I need to give 20000 as khums.

I have asked the same question to "Maulana Ali Raza Rizvi" and his response was that khums is 20% as per the ayat of Quran 8:41.

 

But my question is ayat 8:41 says, if we obtain anything from war booty, it should be 1/5 part of income and we do not have war during this times...

Can any one clarify this matter please, about both 20% for Khums  and the ayat talking about war booty !!

Thank you.

[786:) 383]

23 minutes ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Many of my friends have asked me to inquire if khums is really 20% of our savings/ income.. as this would be too much meaning that for every 1 lakh , I need to give 20000 as khums.

I have asked the same question to "Maulana Ali Raza Rizvi" and his response was that khums is 20% as per the ayat of Quran 8:41.

 

But my question is ayat 8:41 says, if we obtain anything from war booty, it should be 1/5 part of income and we do not have war during this times...

Can any one clarify this matter please, about both 20% for Khums  and the ayat talking about war booty !!

Thank you.

If you look at khums from strictly an academic point, it’s current methodology was added much after the time of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). The scope of khums has been extended over time to adequate the survival of Shiism.

I hate how we are given the fairytale that khums was on income during the life of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). That is so false. The income tax in the time of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was zakat as outlined in the Quran several times.

I would have no problem giving khums if they were truthful about its history, but you lose trust in such establishment for such deception.

[786:) 383]

@Mohammed-Mehdi not sure what’s so funny. Refer to this video of Kamal al-Haydari:

 

@THREE1THREE since you follow Kamal al-Haydari, do you agree with this controversial opinion of his?

[Mohammed-Mehdi 983]

I don't follow Al Haydari and his campaing against Islam.

I don't need to listen to it, I just reacted to your 'piece', that's all. I could, but maybe later. 

[skylight2 548]

15 hours ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Many of my friends have asked me to inquire if khums is really 20% of our savings/ income.. as this would be too much meaning that for every 1 lakh , I need to give 20000 as khums.

I have asked the same question to "Maulana Ali Raza Rizvi" and his response was that khums is 20% as per the ayat of Quran 8:41.

 

But my question is ayat 8:41 says, if we obtain anything from war booty, it should be 1/5 part of income and we do not have war during this times...

Can any one clarify this matter please, about both 20% for Khums  and the ayat talking about war booty !!

Thank you.

If you google - you'll find several calculators etc. on khums, as well as rulings... here is one: https://zahratrust.com/khums-calculator/#calculate . It is better to google sometimes - rather than ask on this forum where everyone seems to think they know best. 

Is khums payable on savings I have made for the future?

Yes, khums is payable on all savings. Once khums has been paid on a sum, that sum will no longer be liable for khums for as long as it remains.

https://www.world-federation.org/news/khums-guide

Edited June 3 by skylight2

[THREE1THREE 159]

15 hours ago, 786:) said:

@Mohammed-Mehdi not sure what’s so funny. Refer to this video of Kamal al-Haydari:

 

@THREE1THREE since you follow Kamal al-Haydari, do you agree with this controversial opinion of his?

Yes I agree, even in the world of Hadith their is so much Emphasis on Zakat, the Quran is pretty clear on khums the same way it is pretty clear on wuthu. This while 20% khumms on money has no basis, rather Zakat exsists for that, back in the time of Musa and Isa ((عليه السلام)) their zakat was 10% then when the sharia of Prophet Muhammad (saws) was established Zakat became 2.5%, obviously Islam came as a ease to mankind. So khumms being favoured on top of Zakat and the percentage being 20% yearly is definitely too much, the old Muslims had it easier and this also contradicts the meaning of ease to mankind. 

[Mahdavist 2,005]

It isn't on your income it's on the gain (al ghanima). To put it in simple terms, compare your wealth at the end of the year with your wealth at the end of the previous year. The increase is your gain and one fifth of this is khums. 

[Dreamcatcher 69]

Pooya/Ali commentary of verse 8:41
 

Quote

 

Ghanayam means the property, movable and immovable, surrendered by the enemy in any battle. Verse 1 of this surah has already stated that it belongs to Allah and the Holy Prophet. Although the Sunni jurists have restricted its meaning to the spoils of war, but actually, according to Shia scholars, on every profit obtained by trade and labour, or from mines, or from sea or by means mentioned in the books of fiqh, payment of khums is obligatory, because as per the rules of lexicography the word ghanimat applies to all these things. Well-known commentators like Razi and Qartabi admit that the real meaning of ghanimat does not justify its restriction to the spoils of war only. See Tafsir Razi vol. 15, p.164 and Tafsir Qartabi vol. 4, p. 2840. Tafsir al Manar also gives the same verdict.

According to this verse out of every profit, from wherever it comes, including the spoils of wars, khums has to be paid, because both ma (a relative pronoun-mawsulah) and shay are of a general nature and carry no restrictions.

 

Its been explained. For those who don't want to pay because obviously, 1/5 or 20% is high and people chicken out because of this rate and if you think its some sort of a scheme by the Ayatollahs, who have studied Quran and aHadith all their lives; then the least you can do is read Shaykh Tusi's take on it. I doubt anyone can follow the first three with certainty. If you don't pay Khums, and it turns out Khums was never there then sure, you'll be good in the hereafter and in front of the last Imam (ajtf) but what if Khums was there all along and you never paid it.

Take the 50/50 gamble if you want to, be rich in this world by 20% or be in the line of those who usurped Khums in the hereafter.

Source

[skylight2 548]

9 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

It isn't on your income it's on the gain (al ghanima). To put it in simple terms, compare your wealth at the end of the year with your wealth at the end of the previous year. The increase is your gain and one fifth of this is khums. 

Yes exactly - it is on the increase or gain of wealth ... if you've never paid khums - then you have to pay the initial 20% on all ... thereafter it is 20% on gain . Thus if you have say savings/wealth of $100... then: 

Year 1 20% of $100 = $20 

Year 2 if your gain is another $100 so now you have $180 total in your account. 

You pay 20% of $100 = $20  NOT 20% of $180 because khums on $80 has already been paid in year 1. 

Hope this makes things clearer ... and that Khums is really not that much of a "burden" as people like to make it out to be... maybe because of misunderstandings on how it is calculated. Khums is one the most important institutions in Shi'a Islam - and we need to just make sure it is being utilized appropriately. Ultimately calculate what is your need and then what is additional you give that away ... that's the Qur'an ... I see Khums and Zakat as a floor - ie a minimum - not a maximum.  (although we Shi'as have some issues with zakat that I think needs some ijtihadi updating ... but we won't go there) ...

[Man Kunto Maula 47]

Aren't there any hadiths from 12 Imams (عليه السلام) highlighting the topic of Khums for better understanding of this system ???

[Man Kunto Maula 47]

Al- islam.org is very much clear on the topic of khums..

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/khums-one-fifth

 

We read in the Holy Qur’an:

Know that whatever of a thing you acquire, a fifth of it is for Allah, for the Messenger, for the near relative, and the orphans and the needy and they way farer ..... (Qur’an 8:41)

Thus Khums (literally one fifth of gain) should go to six people:

1. Allah
2. His Messenger
3. The near relative of the Messenger (Ahlul-Bayt)
4. Orphan
5. needy
6. the person who has fallen away from his home-town (and has no money to comeback to his own place)

[786:) 383]

3 hours ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Al- islam.org is very much clear on the topic of khums..

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/khums-one-fifth

 

We read in the Holy Qur’an:

Know that whatever of a thing you acquire, a fifth of it is for Allah, for the Messenger, for the near relative, and the orphans and the needy and they way farer ..... (Qur’an 8:41)

Thus Khums (literally one fifth of gain) should go to six people:

1. Allah
2. His Messenger
3. The near relative of the Messenger (Ahlul-Bayt)
4. Orphan
5. needy
6. the person who has fallen away from his home-town (and has no money to comeback to his own place)

Look at the Arabic, this translation has fallen victim to bias. The word Ghanima (war booty) is in there.

[skylight2 548]

21 hours ago, 786:) said:

Look at the Arabic, this translation has fallen victim to bias. The word Ghanima (war booty) is in there.

Have you had this discussion about khums with a scholar, presented your proofs... so they can send it to the marja'yya ? I personally don't have the scholarship necessary to evaluate your statements etc. I doubt it that anyone reading these comments have that level of scholarship. It just brings into question why you are casting doubt on khums? If indeed you do have the level of scholarship to question the current rulings - perhaps you could say a little bit more about yourself, your background, level of study / scholarship etc. Unlike our sunni bros and sisters - Shi'as do have an institution through which such issues are clarified, not every t d h can just set up their own shop.  I do think that at times the representatives of the marja'yya are not all that clear in representing their fatawas. This has more do with many Shi'as not being particularly interested in the proofs - and just want an answer - but also most are not educated to that level in religious affairs to even understand the proofs and the methodologies. 

[Man Kunto Maula 47]

On 6/4/2020 at 2:40 PM, 786:) said:

Look at the Arabic, this translation has fallen victim to bias. The word Ghanima (war booty) is in there.

Going with the logic  everytime can be dangerous..... Prophet p.b.u.h didn't say m leaving only Quran, he left Quran with ahle bayt to understand the deen in entire sense. 

 

Going by logic... how would you interpret this ayat of 17:72

Whoso is blind here in this world will be blind in the Hereafter... 

 

how would you justify this ayat through logic??

[786:) 383]

9 minutes ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Going with the logic  everytime can be dangerous..... Prophet p.b.u.h didn't say m leaving only Quran, he left Quran with ahle bayt to understand the deen in entire sense. 

 

Going by logic... how would you interpret this ayat of 17:72

Whoso is blind here in this world will be blind in the Hereafter... 

 

how would you justify this ayat through logic??

Sure, just browse through Nahjul Balagha. See if Imam Ali ever mentions khums in his sermons if it’s so necessary to our salvation. He repeats the Quran: salah and zakat.

If you are so confident, feel free to provide a mutawatir hadith that points to khums being on overall wealth or income. I will gladly take back my claim. I’ve looked into this matter numerous times and the truth is evident to me. 

[786:) 383]

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-25-instructions-assessors-and-collectors-zakat
 

If khums is greater than zakat then how come Imam Ali does not address it in Nahjul Balagha even once?

[Diaz 984]

And to whom should we give our khumm too?

[Moalfas 1,333]

33 minutes ago, 786:) said:

how come Imam Ali does not address it in Nahjul Balagha even once?

 

39 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Sure, just browse through Nahjul Balagha. See if Imam Ali ever mentions khums in his sermons if it’s so necessary to our salvation. He repeats the Quran: salah and zakat.

Khums is a part of the general term 'Zakat', so is Sadaqa. 

When Allah Ta'ala in the Quran, the Prophet saww and Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) enjoin upon the believers to pay Zakat, it's not only a reference to what we know as 'Zakat Al Fitra', it's rather all the different dues paid in the way of Allah Ta'ala.

[rkazmi33 1,187]

What perecentage of income is jizya? PTI members have declared that anyone who doesn't agree with their ideology is a non-muslim  and must pay jizya. So I need to know what percentage of income is jizya? They have always demanded a lot more than 20% from me. 

[Mohammed-Mehdi 983]

Best is tp refer back to the Jurists.
Following a mujtahid (Taqlid) » Taqlid: Following a Mujtahid 

[Mohammed-Mehdi 983]

On 6/3/2020 at 12:43 AM, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

I don't need to listen to it,

You look like a possible troll with your ShiaReformist wordpress on your profile. He is speaking 'like a clown' from that what I heard, unfortunately, for him mostly. 
 

 

[Mahdavist 2,005]

11 hours ago, 786:) said:

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-25-instructions-assessors-and-collectors-zakat
 

If khums is greater than zakat then how come Imam Ali does not address it in Nahjul Balagha even once?

Since when was nahjul balagha a book of jurisprudential issues? Also, surely you realize that this wasn't a work written by the Imam? It's a compilation of some sermons and letters collected by sharif al radi. 

Anyway if you want to refer to narrations about khums they are in wasail al shia. 

[skylight2 548]

 

On 6/6/2020 at 9:09 PM, Mahdavist said:

Since when was nahjul balagha a book of jurisprudential issues? Also, surely you realize that this wasn't a work written by the Imam? It's a compilation of some sermons and letters collected by sharif al radi. 

Anyway if you want to refer to narrations about khums they are in wasail al shia. 

Also the sermons that are included may not even be complete they are often extracts from what may be much longer narrations. I think al-islam.org has references to the complete narrations. 

[Ashvazdanghe 7,503]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:02 PM, 786:) said:

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-25-instructions-assessors-and-collectors-zakat
 

If khums is greater than zakat then how come Imam Ali does not address it in Nahjul Balagha even once?

Quote

Beware that the paths of religion are one and its highways are straight. He who follows them achieves (the aim) and secures (the objective). And he who stood away from it went astray and incurred repentance.

أَلاَ وَإِنَّ شَرَائِعَ الدِّينِ وَاحِدَةٌ، وَسُبُلَهُ قَاصِدَةٌ، مَنْ أَخَذَ بِهَا لَحِقَ وَغَنِمَ، وَمَنْ وَقَفَ عَنْهَا ضَلَّ وَنَدِمَ.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-120-allah-i-have-knowledge

makes good use of his time and hastens towards the end and takes with him the provision of (good) actions.

اغْتَنَمَ الْمَهَلَ وَبَادَرَ الاْجَلَ، وَتَزَوَّدَ مِنَ الْعَمَلِ.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-76-may-allah-bless-whoever-listens-point-wisdom-and-retains-it

this means غَنِمَ is not just booty of war but also time & money &  earning & property that you gain without  war

I have come to know concerning you a matter which if you have done it you have displeased your Allah and disobeyed your Imam. You are distributing among the Arabs (Bedouins) of your kin who tend towards you the property of the Muslims which they collected by dint of their spears and horses and on which their blood was shed. By Allah Who germinated the seed and created living beings, if this is true you will be humbled in my view and you will become light in weight. Therefore, do not treat lightly the obligations of your Lord and do not reform your world by ruining your religion, since then you will be among losers by the way of (your) actions.

Know that the right of those Muslims who are around you and those who are around me in this property is equal. For that reason they come to me and take from it.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-43-masqalah-ibn-hubayrah-ash-shaybani-governor

Quote

Certainly, you cannot do so but at least support me in piety, exertion, chastity and uprightness, because, by Allah, I have not treasured any gold out of your world nor amassed plentiful wealth nor collected any clothes other than the two shabby sheets.

 أَلاَ وَإِنَّكُمْ لاَ تَقْدِرُونَ عَلَى ذلِكَ، وَلكِنْ أَعِينُوني بِوَرَع وَاجْتِهَاد، وَعِفَّة وَسَدَاد فَوَاللهِ مَا كَنَزْتُ مِنْ دُنْيَاكُمْ تِبْراً، وَلاَ ادَّخَرْتُ مِنْ غَنَائِمِهَا وَفْراً، وَلاَ أَعْدَدْتُ لِبَالِي ثَوْبِي طِمْراً.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-45-uthman-ibn-hunayf-al-ansari

Habituate your heart to mercy for the subjects and to affection and kindness for them. Do not stand over them like greedy beasts who feel it is enough to devour them,

وَأَشْعِرْ قَلْبَكَ الرَّحْمَةَ لِلرَّعِيَّةِ، وَالْـمَحَبَّةَ لَهُمْ، وَاللُّطْفَ بِهِمْ، وَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبُعاً ضَارِياً تَغْتَنِمُ أَكْلَهُمْ،

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-53-order-malik-al-ashtar

https://article.tebyan.net/184282/بدترین-و-نجس-ترین-مال

http://farsi.al-shia.org/توضیحاتی-در-باره-خمس/

https://hawzah.net/fa/Question/View/64054/عملکرد-پیغمبر-و-امام-علی-علیهم-السلام-درباره-خمس

Quote

Know that whatever thing you may come by, a fifth of it is for Allah and the Apostle, for the relatives and the orphans, for the needy and the traveller, if you have faith in Allah and what We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Separation, the day when the two hosts met; and Allah has power over all things. (41)

 وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّمَا غَنِمْتُم مِّن شَيْءٍ فَأَنَّ لِلَّـهِ خُمُسَهُ وَلِلرَّسُولِ وَلِذِي الْقُرْبَىٰ وَالْيَتَامَىٰ وَالْمَسَاكِينِ وَابْنِ السَّبِيلِ إِن كُنتُمْ آمَنتُم بِاللَّـهِ وَمَا أَنزَلْنَا عَلَىٰ عَبْدِنَا يَوْمَ الْفُرْقَانِ يَوْمَ الْتَقَى الْجَمْعَانِ ۗ وَاللَّـهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ ﴿٤١﴾

http://tanzil.net/#8:41

فَكُلُوا مِمَّا غَنِمْتُمْ حَلَالًا طَيِّبًا ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّـهَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ ﴿٦٩﴾

Avail yourselves of the spoils you have taken as lawful and good, and be wary of Allah. Indeed Allah is all-forgiving, all-merciful. (69)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/8:69

O you who have faith! When you issue forth in the way of Allah, try to ascertain: do not say to someone who offers you peace, ‘You are not a believer,’ seeking the transitory wares of the life of this world. Yet with Allah are plenteous gains. You too were such earlier, but Allah did you a favour. Therefore, do ascertain. Allah is indeed well aware of what you do. (94)

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا ضَرَبْتُمْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّـهِ فَتَبَيَّنُوا وَلَا تَقُولُوا لِمَنْ أَلْقَىٰ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَامَ لَسْتَ مُؤْمِنًا تَبْتَغُونَ عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا فَعِندَ اللَّـهِ مَغَانِمُ كَثِيرَةٌ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ كُنتُم مِّن قَبْلُ فَمَنَّ اللَّـهُ عَلَيْكُمْ فَتَبَيَّنُوا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا ﴿٩٤﴾

http://tanzil.net/#4:94

this means غَنِمَ is not just booty of war but also time & money &  earning & property that you gain without  war like trade .