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Azadar-e-Ali

Sexual patience in little children

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Salam 

Nowadays children are getting baligh at very early ages. The usual age that is considered to be for balooghut is 15 years but many children can become baligh even as early as 11. 

If an 11 years old child has become baligh and develops sexual urge and starts committing some sexual sins like masturbation, then according to the Islamic law, it would become wajib on him to get married. 

In fact, even if the boy doesnt actually commit masturbation but just thinks that he might not be able to control it at some point, then it would be wajib on him to get married, because marriage becomes obligatory if there is fear of sinning (even when you have not even commited the sin- just the fear alone would make it wajib). 

Now, in today's world, when it becomes wajib for an 11-12 years old boy to get married, what is he Islamically expected to do to achieve this wajib objective? 

It is likely that even if marriage becomes wajib on a 11-12 years old boy, in reality he would have to wait for maybe 15-20 years before his marriage actually takes place.

So, when a young boy understands that despite his efforts, he would most likely have to wait for a decade or more to get married, would it then become wajib on him to have no fear of falling into sin? .....ie, one should either get married, or make sure that he does not even have any little bit of fear that he might commit any sexual sin at any point. Because even a slight thought or a slight fear of sin / of masturbation will automatically make it obligatory to get married, which he then would not be able to do so, complicating matters further. 

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Nowa days 15 yr olds are sleeping with girls, copping nudes from girls and what’s worse the girls like it and don’t mind sending nudes aswell because “she’s in love” or “she loves him”. Ohh boy the stories I’ve heard. You will wish suicide was halal, so you can enter barzakh on the asap.

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4 hours ago, Azadar-e-Ali said:

Salam 

Nowadays children are getting baligh at very early ages. The usual age that is considered to be for balooghut is 15 years but many children can become baligh even as early as 11. 

Walaykum as Salam,

the age depends on your marjas’ ruling. Ayatollah Sistani ruled that girls become baligh at around 9, and boys around 15. Other maraji’ either accept similar ages or slightly differ. 

Quote

If an 11 years old child has become baligh and develops sexual urge and starts committing some sexual sins like masturbation, then according to the Islamic law, it would become wajib on him to get married. 

In fact, even if the boy doesnt actually commit masturbation but just thinks that he might not be able to control it at some point, then it would be wajib on him to get married, because marriage becomes obligatory if there is fear of sinning (even when you have not even commited the sin- just the fear alone would make it wajib). 

Now, in today's world, when it becomes wajib for an 11-12 years old boy to get married, what is he Islamically expected to do to achieve this wajib objective? 

It is likely that even if marriage becomes wajib on a 11-12 years old boy, in reality he would have to wait for maybe 15-20 years before his marriage actually takes place.

So, when a young boy understands that despite his efforts, he would most likely have to wait for a decade or more to get married, would it then become wajib on him to have no fear of falling into sin? .....ie, one should either get married, or make sure that he does not even have any little bit of fear that he might commit any sexual sin at any point. Because even a slight thought or a slight fear of sin / of masturbation will automatically make it obligatory to get married, which he then would not be able to do so, complicating matters further. 

You either have to get married or abstain from masturbation all together, there’s no third way. Masturbation has been condemned by the A’immah (may Allah bless them all), and marriage at young age became very ostracised nowadays due to the Western customs and norms. Unfortunately, Western laws and lifestyles have enormous influence on many Muslims living in the West or not, but we don’t go by these. Islamically, rushd (maturity of mind) is as important as the physical one and to avoid zina, one should get married. 

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56 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Ayatollah Sistani ruled that girls become baligh at around 9, and boys around 15.

The age 15 is the maximum age, not minimum. For boys, the minimum may be 11, if they get nocturnal emission or get thick pubic hair. And the age 15 years is not 15 calender years, it is lunar years which turns out to be something like 14 years 7 months. 

56 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

You either have to get married or abstain from masturbation all together, there’s no third way.

That is what I said myself. Infact, not just abstain from masturbation, even the fear of masturbation should not be there, because if one fears that he might masturbate, it would be wajib to get married. This led to the question I asked....if an 11 year old baligh boy fears that he might masturbate, it is obligatory for him to get married. So he has two options...

1. Somehow get married at age 11

2. If cannot get married, then he is not allowed to have fear of masturbation. He will have to be 100% certain and absolutely sure and give a guarantee to himself that even if he is unable to get married for next 10-20 years, he would still not even have a single thought about any sin during this time. Because if he even thinks about sin, that might make marriage wajib on him when he won't be able to get married. 

Bottom line...get married even if 11 years old...and if cannot get married, then have a sexual desire so completely and absolutely and fully suppressed that there is not even a single chance that any sexual sin at all will happen. An unmarried person should have an absolute guarantee and be 100% sure that there is no chance at all and no fear at all that any sin will take place. Because any such fear will make marriage wajib - so if the man knows he cannot get married, he will have to ensure that marriage doesn't remain wajib on him. 

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35 minutes ago, Azadar-e-Ali said:

The age 15 is the maximum age, not minimum. For boys, the minimum may be 11, if they get nocturnal emission or get thick pubic hair. 

Do you have a source confirmation for that? I have three books of Ayatollah Sistani, including Taudhi'ul'Masail at home and I can’t find confirmation for such interpretation that the age for boys may be younger than fifteen lunar years. Nocturnal emissions, pubic hair etc. are a part of fifteen lunar years, not a separate category in the sense of “either this or either that.” 

Quote

And the age 15 years is not 15 calender years, it is lunar years which turns out to be something like 14 years 7 months. 

Yeah. It is in lunar years, fifteen to be exact which equals to about 14 years, seven months and fifteen days of the solar calendar for the males and nine lunar years equal to about eight years, eight months and twenty days of the solar calendar for females. 

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55 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Do you have a source confirmation for that?

 

Answer: Puberty in males could be confirmed if one of the four signs was present:
1. First: Completion of fifteen lunar calendar years of age (equal to about 14 years and seven months and fifteen days of the solar calendar).
2. Second: Ejaculation through sexual intercourse, or seminal discharge while awake or asleep.
3.Third: The presence of pubic hair, of the rough type.
4. Fourth: The presence of hair on the face and above the lips.
Note: The presence of under arm and chest hair and the deepening of the voice are not the signs of puberty in Islamic law.
He should begin performing his religious duties when he attains the age of puberty.

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01127/

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58 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Nocturnal emissions, pubic hair etc. are a part of fifteen lunar years, not a separate category in the sense of “either this or either that.” 

This is a common misconception. All these are separate categories and the presence of any one will confirm puberty. That's why many boys become baligh at ages much younger than 15, around 11-12, but are only told by their parents mistakenly that they will become baligh at 15. 

Edited by Azadar-e-Ali

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Is an 11 year old even able to decide what girl he wants to end up with? Marrying someone just to control your sexual desires is the biggest mistake one can make.

I don't think our scholars even married at the age of 11. It's very impractical! 

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@OrthodoxTruth Salaam bro, I thought 15 was the age for boys too but then I read this on the site of Sayyid al Sistani (may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) lengthen his life):

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01127/

Question: How is puberty confirmed in a male?
Answer: Puberty in males could be confirmed if one of the four signs was present:
1. First: Completion of fifteen lunar calendar years of age (equal to about 14 years and seven months and fifteen days of the solar calendar).
2. Second: Ejaculation through sexual intercourse, or seminal discharge while awake or asleep.
3.Third: The presence of pubic hair, of the rough type.
4. Fourth: The presence of hair on the face and above the lips. 
Note: The presence of under arm and chest hair and the deepening of the voice are not the signs of puberty in Islamic law.
He should begin performing his religious duties when he attains the age of puberty.
 
2Question: When is a girl considered adult from the viewpoint of Sharia?
Answer: She is considered adult at the completion of nine lunar years (equal to about eight years and eight months and twenty days of the solar calendar). 
She should begin performing her religious duties when she attains the age of nine lunar years, the age of puberty.

So what's up with this, what's the real and latest fatwa, one did it fatwa change? because I heard 15 from not just you too but his site expresses otherwise.

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@OrthodoxTruth

Also, to further add to the inconsistency and confusion lol, in the "Jurisprudence Made Easy" book on Sayyid Sistani's site, it seems to indicate that 15 is the age of buloogh for males...:

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/49/2393/

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful
Today, I have completed my fifteenth birthday. When I awoke, I had no idea what was in store for me. A day of surprises, conceit, and apprehension that was, nevertheless, tampered with joy, love, and enjoyment of discovery. A day that heralded the closing of one chapter of my life and the beginning of another.
As usual, I woke up early. No sooner had I finished my morning routine between my waking up and sitting to have my breakfast, I saw a different expression on my father’s face. Something made me guess that a matter of a kind that concerns me he needed to address.
His eyes were wide open as if they were gazing in a vacuum. His tight lips indicated that he was about to say something of great importance. His fingers were tapping rhythmically on the dining table. It seemed that his heart was filled with great tidings so much so that it could overflow.
As I sat on the opposite side of the table, he took the initiative, with a glow of joy filling his eyes, and said: Oh my son! Today, you have rolled up a phase of your life and are on the threshold of a new one. In the eye of Islamic law, you have become a fully fledged man capable of being obligated to observe the dictates of religion. On this day, Allah, the Exalted, has bestowed upon you the favour of showing to you that which you should obey and that which you should shun.

 

I guess maybe 15 is the official age of buloogh but it can happen earlier if those signs are present.

Edited by AStruggler

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11 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Is an 11 year old even able to decide what girl he wants to end up with? Marrying someone just to control your sexual desires is the biggest mistake one can make.

I don't think our scholars even married at the age of 11. It's very impractical! 

I agree. But I was just mentioning what the rule says....if the 11 year old is baligh and has fear of falling into sin, then as per the law it would be obligatory to get married. It will be obligatory but almost impossible and impractical and not within the boy's own control. 

So, does that mean that the rule can be restated as...if someone has fear of falling into sin and is able to get married, then it is obligatory to get married. But if someone is not able to get married, then it is obligatory on him to have no fear of falling into sin? 

In other words, if a person knows that he really, really cannot get married or do mutah (there is absolutely no change for that), then it is obligatory on him to control himself to such an extent that he doesn't even have any fear of falling into sin.

Ofcourse this is not easy - becoming chaste and abolishing sexual desire completely - but this is the conclusion one can draw if he is unable to get married and thus doesn't wish that marriage becomes obligatory. 

Bottom line....If one develops fear of sin, then it is obligatory to get married. But if one cannot get married, then is it obligatory to have no fear of sin (be chaste to the level that even the fear of sin disappears)?

Or one can say....only a person who has the means to get married is allowed to develop fear of sin. A person with no possibility of marriage is not allowed to even have any fear of sin - he should be absolutely chaste with a completely suppressed sexual desire, because if he develops fear, it would make it obligatory on him to get married, but since he won't be able to do that, it will only add to his list of unfulfilled obligations. So one must make sure that marriage doesn't become obligatory on anyone if there is no chance of marriage. 

Edited by Azadar-e-Ali

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45 minutes ago, Azadar-e-Ali said:

other words, if a person knows that he really, really cannot get married or do mutah (there is absolutely no change for that), then it is obligatory on him to control himself to such an extent that he doesn't even have any fear of falling into sin.

Hmm I'd say that boys even at the age of 8 develop certain sexual tendencies, however we won't hold them entirely responsible for their sin. Like when someone reaches the age of buloogh, then they'll be held responsible. I don't think an 11 year old boy committing a sin such as masturbation would be held responsible? Correct me if I'm wrong?

When we reach a certain age where we have the free will and more control over ourselves, that's a different scenario. 

 

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Salam 

Children should be taught to say their prayers on daily basis.  They also have to be taught and warned not to be involved in illegal sexual drives.  They will understand better if proper guidance is given.

Educate children before puberty about avoiding illegal sexual conducts plus the consequences of illegal sexual activities.

 

Edited by layman

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2 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I don't think an 11 year old boy committing a sin such as masturbation would be held responsible? Correct me if I'm wrong

But if he is baligh, the laws would apply on him just like an older individual, isn't it ? Things that are haram would remain haram whether the sinner is 11 or 50. Correct ? 

Edited by Azadar-e-Ali

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7 hours ago, Azadar-e-Ali said:

But if he is baligh, the laws would apply on him just like an older individual, isn't it ? Things that are haram would remain haram whether the sinner is 11 or 50. Correct ? 

Yes, once you reach puberty Islamically you become an adult in the eyes of sharia law.

I think I understand completely what you are trying to say. In order to avoid sinning, one should get married at puberty otherwise he/she will be willingly engaging in sin because of the lust. However, if they can’t get married at such age, are they truly a sinners. Correct me if your dilemma is different. If it is however the way I understood you, yes they would’ve been sinners nonetheless. One you reach puberty Islamically, sharia law applies to you just as to any other adult. 

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On 5/31/2020 at 12:38 AM, Azadar-e-Ali said:

In fact, even if the boy doesnt actually commit masturbation but just thinks that he might not be able to control it at some point, then it would be wajib on him to get married, because marriage becomes obligatory if there is fear of sinning (even when you have not even commited the sin- just the fear alone would make it wajib). 

marriage does not necessarily solve the problem of masturbation. Some men have strong addictions towards it, they wouldn't entirely stop  completely unless they themselves have self control. There are thousands of other ways for the boy to control his desires other than marriage. Fasting is one of them. Inclination to faith. Investing new hobbies. 

 

On 5/31/2020 at 5:49 AM, Azadar-e-Ali said:

If cannot get married, then he is not allowed to have fear of masturbation. He will have to be 100% certain and absolutely sure and give a guarantee to himself that even if he is unable to get married for next 10-20 years, he would still not even have a single thought about any sin during this time. Because if he even thinks about sin, that might make marriage wajib on him when he won't be able to get married. 

Has sistani issued a fatwa on this? I mean i understand your point of view, but even if marriage becomes wajib on him at such a young age, there are other limitations that can't possibly get him married that young. Parents should also be supportive when he reaches that stage

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On 6/2/2020 at 1:17 AM, 3wliya_maryam said:

marriage does not necessarily solve the problem of masturbation

The bitter truth that no one knows. Only in the temporary honeymoon phase, the new experience will help these people abstain from their addictive behaviour, but once the feeling fades away, before you know it they're back at engaging in such behaviour. 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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