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Guest Quran and Itrah

Does Imam Ali give life and take death, with the permission of Allah?

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it will be abit disappointing for you but i don't just rely on only the silent Qur'an, rather i rely on the talking Qur'an as well. see this, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) Himself explains

 

Similarly, in a long sermon of Amir-ul-Momineen-asws in reply to a non-believer’s questions on the Holy Quran, when he alleged that there are many contradictions in the Holy Quran: (He said), in some places (in the Holy Quran) Allah-azwj Says I ‘Take Back’ life whereas in other 
places (in Quran, Allah-azwj) Says: the Angel of Death takes back life and in another place Allah-azwj Says My Angels take back life. We only present the reply of Amir-ul-Momineen-asws,


Amir-ul-Momineen-asws said.

I would like to give an explanation to your questions. One cannot do any good except after getting inspiration from Allah-azwj. I fully rely (Tawakkal) on Him-azwj, seek His-azwj blessings and all those who seek nobility turn towards Him-azwj

Allah-azwj Says: Allah Takes back life at the time of their death (39:42).

And Says: The Angel of Death takes life away from you (32:11),


and our Prophets (عليه السلام) take 
life away. And those are the righteous who meet their death by the hands of our Angels as. 
And also, those who are killed by the Angels are those who have indulged themselves in inappropriate matters. 
Thus, Allah-azwj is so Elevated and Magnificent that it is inappropriate that He-azwj would Himself perform such tasks, therefore He-azwj refers those tasks to Himself which are 
conducted by His angels and His Prophets, on His behalf as they act purely on His instructions.
Thus, Allah-azwj has Decided to create, among His creations some Angels andMessengers, and for whom Allahazwj Says:

 

Thus a devotee’s soul will be taken away by the kind angels whereas a sinner’s soul is removed by the angels of wrath (22:75).


 Both Angels of Blessings and Wrath are helpers of ‘Malakul Moat’ (The Angel of Death). They just carry out Allah-azwj’s Commands, thus their  actions are referred to as His actions. As other Angels’ actions are the actions of Angel of Death, similarly, the work of Angel of Death is the work of Allah-azwj because it is Him who chooses the means to bring death onto someone, or to stop it or to extend life or/and gives the rewards or the punishment. Indeed, the tasks of His trustees are His tasks. As Allah azwj Says


You would never desire for until and unless Allah wants it (76:30), 

And Says: Who carried out ‘Amal-ul-Salay’ is a Momin16 (21:94).

Thus, do not be disobedient in the striving of the good deeds. And also Says: ‘He who repented, accepted ‘Eman’, carried out ‘Amal-e-Salay’ and thus found ‘Guidance’, will be forgiven’


(An Extract from a long sermon of Amir-ul-Momineenasws)

 

Edited by randomly curious

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On 6/3/2020 at 9:20 AM, randomly curious said:

Muhammad Bin Al-Abbas, from Abdullah Bin Hamam, from Abdullah Bin Ja’far, from Ibrahim Bin Hisham, from Muhammad Bin Khalid, from Al-Hassan Bin Mahboub, from Al-Ahowl, from Salam Bin Al-Mustaneer who said, 


‘I asked Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) about the Words of Allahazwj Mighty and Majestic:

All things will perish except for His Face [28:88]. Heasws said: ‘By Allah-azwj! We (عليه السلام) are the ones who have been Spoken about, and we will never perish up to the Day of Judgement with what Allah-azwj has Commanded with from obedience to us-asws, and being in our Wilayah.

 

taaweel al aayat vol.1 p.425

 

On 6/3/2020 at 9:58 AM, islam25 said:

I in senses enough to understand differnce between "will persish" and "perish".

Definitely the scholar from Qum after reading for 20 years too might be knowing it.

It is he who said the scholars believe that this verse says right now everything is pershied not in future. Then what is left or what exists in reality is face of Allah.

I may add the famous saying of Imam Ali.

That I don't see anything but Allah before it ,in it and after it.

@islam25 your scholor knows more than Imam Jaffer E Sadiq (عليه السلام)? Imam interpreted it just as brother @randomly curious mentioned.

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On 6/3/2020 at 10:58 AM, YoungSkiekh313 said:

LOL then why are you using hadiths that you google searched, do NOT know its chain of narrators (for authenticity purposes), and then arguing with other members ? The other brother is kindly replying with his intellect, and here you are googling hadiths off of sites that you do not even know are from reliable narrators........ 

 

Brother randomly has quoted hadiths with references given in books like Basair Al Darjaat which is older source than Al-Kafi. Go look for it for tehqeeq.

Plus evaluation of chain if narrations isn't only method for authentication of hadiths. If quran testifies to its Authenticity,  then hadith is correct according to usool given by imam e sadiq (عليه السلام)

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22 hours ago, 786:) said:

Right. Imams have 99% of the knowledge of Allah has. The only 1% is day the of judgement? They know everything else? I will bring you clear cut verses of the Quran where Allah states the Prophet does not have Ilm ul Ghayb. But that won’t suffice because supposedly we are to judge the Quran with hadith that we like. Not the other way around.

Imams have Ilm-Ul-Ghaib. If you want to debate then go ahead. Your claim is that Imams don't have ilm-ul-ghaib. Just remember that you didn't say they know some of it only which was revealed onto them. 

Go ahead

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22 hours ago, 786:) said:

You know there are tons of tafseers out there right? They ultimately are interpretation of fallible individuals from them attempting to connect HADITH with Quran. And I’m sure you know hadith can be a “pick and choose” game.

Maybe if you brought mutawatir hadith in connection with a Quranic verse, you would have some legs to stand on, but to simply say “hey it’s in a tafseer, you can’t deny it now” is laughable.

First of all, you said those tafaseer are interpretations of fallible individuals attempting to connect hadith with Quran.

What do you mean by attempting? 

Lol funny thing is that don't rely on Ali Bin Ibrahim Qummi, Muhammad Bin Hassan as Saffar, Al Kyulani, Sadooq, but trust tafseer brought forward by a random scholor? While knowing its haram to interpret without using hadith?

You ask for Mutawatir riwayah? For what? How many things are Mutawatir in Islam? I heard a researcher saying 98% things aren't mutawatir so means you reject all?

Only Mutawatir hadith isn't hujjah, sahih is, hasan is and are many other hadith categories that are reliable.

Example you trust yourself? Lemme tell you one thing,  even you arent mutawatir.

Edited by Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi

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Isa (عليه السلام) being an Ayahtullah (real one) can give life and death with permission of Allah but when Imam Ali (عليه السلام), who is Ayat Al Kubra says he gives life and death, you call it ghuluw and say we are just using permission of Allah as an excuse.

If you are un aware, then do research before issuing a fatwa of ghulat or shirk. Be careful with what you say.

But if you are aware of these hadiths, then you are rejecting authentic merits of Aima (عليه السلام) without any reason. Just because you don't want to accept them?

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50 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

 

@islam25 your scholor knows more than Imam Jaffer E Sadiq (عليه السلام)? Imam interpreted it just as brother @randomly curious mentioned.

I too presented the saying of Imam Ali.

That I don't see any thing but Allah before it ,in it and after.

I gave you the commentary of Imam Khomini on Quranic verse that"Allah is the light of Heavens and earth".

I had nothing personal view but what other scholars say.

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Guest Shawarma
On 5/28/2020 at 11:47 PM, Guest Quran and Itrah said:

I just wanted to survey the opinions of those on Shia Chat.

Does anyone believe Imam Ali, with the permission of Allah, gives life, splits the seed, grows vegetation, forms us in our wombs, and by the permission of Allah, takes lives.

Would such a person be considered a Mushrik, and one who has committed Shirk?

First off, you and I can take a life too, ours or others. This is what murderers or the women who do abortion do. 
 

Now as far as Imam Ali AS giving life by the will of Allah! What difference does it make to anybody? Jesus AS used to give life to the dead, Khizr was known to do it, Imam Ali AS was known to do it for specific cases and special circumstances, and so many other awlia of Allah.
 

What makes Imam Ali AS special is not his giving life etc., it’s him being the successor of the last prophet of humankind, it’s his being the third wali in the aya of wilaya in Quran, his being the first Imam of the 12, and so on. 

In the day of judgement, Allah is not going to ask whether you believed Imams grant life or death. He would ask you rather did you believe in his wilaya, did you act on his wilaya, and do you qualify for his shifaya? 
 

The rest are absurdities.. 


 

 

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36 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I too presented the saying of Imam Ali.

That I don't see any thing but Allah before it ,in it and after.

I gave you the commentary of Imam Khomini on Quranic verse that"Allah is the light of Heavens and earth".

I had nothing personal view but what other scholars say.

Presenting one and rejecting the other. 

And Khomeni has no right to interpret verses of Quran.

No scholor has right to do so. We are supposed to refer to Allah, Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ulil-Amr in case if we differ. And only Allah and Rasikhuna fil ilm knows taweel of verses. You can't just reject one, and accept other narration for no reason.

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On 5/29/2020 at 11:47 AM, Guest Quran and Itrah said:

I just wanted to survey the opinions of those on Shia Chat.

Does anyone believe Imam Ali, with the permission of Allah, gives life, splits the seed, grows vegetation, forms us in our wombs, and by the permission of Allah, takes lives.

Would such a person be considered a Mushrik, and one who has committed Shirk?

i know im late but, huh???

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4 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Presenting one and rejecting the other. 

And Khomeni has no right to interpret verses of Quran.

No scholor has right to do so. We are supposed to refer to Allah, Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ulil-Amr in case if we differ. And only Allah and Rasikhuna fil ilm knows taweel of verses. You can't just reject one, and accept other narration for no reason.

I know whom to follow and whom not . I didn't accepted one and rejected other.

The reason is difference between masses and Imams.

Masses of people because of Ignorance of Allah sees objects.

And Imams because there marifa see Allah.

Nither masses are wrong nor Imams.

Do you how Allah has introduced himself in Quran.

Different Verses say different things about Allah.

What does it mean when Allah says "where you turn there is Face of Allah"

At other places Allah says "He is Zahir and Batin"

So extacly Imams used different levels of convaying Tawheed of Allah 

Edited by islam25

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4 hours ago, islam25 said:

What does it mean when Allah says "where you turn there is Face of Allah"

Its for Aima (عليه السلام)

4 hours ago, islam25 said:

At other places Allah says "He is Zahir and Batin"

I didn't read anything for this so i'll stay quite.

 

4 hours ago, islam25 said:

So extacly Imams used different levels of convaying Tawheed of Allah 

Imams have conveyed Tauheed based upon order of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Your scholors have no right to interpret verses without hadith just by using their opinion.

Its about accepting a narration. You came up with interpretation of Khomeni against interpretation of Imams.

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9 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Presenting one and rejecting the other. 

And Khomeni has no right to interpret verses of Quran.

No scholor has right to do so. We are supposed to refer to Allah, Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ulil-Amr in case if we differ. And only Allah and Rasikhuna fil ilm knows taweel of verses. You can't just reject one, and accept other narration for no reason.

Are you 100% that our respected Scholars or Leaders did not refer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ulil Amr (عليه السلام)?  

Can you put your hand on Quran and publicity say so in the Presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

Edited by layman

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27 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

Its for Aima (عليه السلام)

I didn't read anything for this so i'll stay quite.

 

Imams have conveyed Tauheed based upon order of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Your scholors have no right to interpret verses without hadith just by using their opinion.

Its about accepting a narration. You came up with interpretation of Khomeni against interpretation of Imams.

What is your interpretation of Imam Ali as saying that I don't see anything but Allah before it , in it and after it.

 

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3 hours ago, layman said:

Are you 100% that our respected Scholars or Leaders did not refer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ulil Amr (عليه السلام)?  

Can you put your hand on Quran and publicity say so in the Presence of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

Brother whatever they say can't be 100% correct. its just natural for humans to be wrong. This is the reason we see ikhtelaaf among Mujtahids in a wide range of matters example eating peacock etc.

Plus who am I to comment on someones interpretation since scholors have studied arabic even more than my age.

I just said, do not reject a hadith just because you don't want to accept it.

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3 hours ago, islam25 said:

What is your interpretation of Imam Ali as saying that I don't see anything but Allah before it , in it and after it.

 

I don't know man, you cannot just sit and interpret Tafseer e Masoom (عليه السلام). i just accept it with literal words. Because in the end, everything refers to Allah Almighty

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36 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

I don't know man, you cannot just sit and interpret Tafseer e Masoom (عليه السلام). i just accept it with literal words. Because in the end, everything refers to Allah Almighty

You are free to follow what you feel right.

So let me follow what I find is right.

That too Quran invites human intellect to think over quran.so don't stop one's intellect to think over Quran and universe.

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5 hours ago, islam25 said:

What is your interpretation of Imam Ali as saying that I don't see anything but Allah before it , in it and after it.

 

no Hadeeth, no tafseer, no reference, no sanad, no chain, no names of the narrators, no arabic texts literally nothing.

 

just make up any sort of opinion and attach " Imam Ali said it" eh?

 

please don't make up any opinions.

or if you quote a Hadeth, refrence is mandatory for that

thankyou.

Edited by randomly curious

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1 minute ago, randomly curious said:

ok so didn't the genaration before khomanie knew that there are way much much much more better scholars then khomanie?

oh yeah they weren't interested in doing bid'at like you people do.

What sort of bidah we did.

Definitely there were many scholars before Khomini .

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This is the kind of thread that will stop many people from joining Shia Islam. (especially Suni brothers who think Shia worship Imam Ali)

It should be short and limited to analysis of hadiths that would support such claims, if they even exist.

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10 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

This is the kind of thread that will stop many people from joining Shia Islam. (especially Suni brothers who think Shia worship Imam Ali)

It should be short and limited to analysis of hadiths that would support such claims, if they even exist.

brother,

I've proved each and every single word of mine from either the verses of Qur'an or Hadeeth.

How can they think we worship Ali. (عليه السلام)?

 ive already provided an extract from the Hadeeth of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) where Mawla (عليه السلام) clearly says that Allah azwj doesn't do these things because He is to elevated and magnificent to do these by Himself.

and its inappropriate for Him to do these things Himself.

 

also its Clearly mentioned in the Holy Quran eesa (عليه السلام) created a bird with the permission of Allah azwj.

so if Ali (عليه السلام) creates something with the permission of Allah azwh despite the fact that Ali (عليه السلام) is  the master of eesa (عليه السلام) Himself, How can someone think about worshipping Him (عليه السلام)? (nauzubillah)

or else if sunnis think by believing in these merits we are worshipping Ali (عليه السلام) (Nauzubillah) then they are worshipping eesa (عليه السلام) themselves by believing in the verse of the Hoy Qur'an regarding eesa (عليه السلام) creating something with the permission of Allah azwj (Nauzubillah)

Edited by randomly curious

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7 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

so if Ali (عليه السلام) creates something with the permission of Allah azwh despite the fact that Ali (عليه السلام)

brother, i am just saying that this discussion should be limited to actual hadiths that address the topic. Are there reliable hadiths showing that Imam Ali did that before he was martyred? Also, the title assumes that Imam Ali is alive among us and can do these things now, as it talks in present tense. That is also kind of wrong I think. So has anybody actually brought hadiths to show Imam Ali making those things?

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see this,

peiple might've not called Ali (عليه السلام) as god for no reason.

but if people only take the Qur'an and leave the tafseer (exegesis) and interpret qur'an by their own will and can't prove their very own claims, and label all the Hadeeths regarding the merits of Ahl ul bayt (عليه السلام) as unauthentic,

again, i am sorry. i ain't responsible for that too

 

jabir ibn `Abdullah al-Ansari relates that after the conquest of Khaybar, when `Ali (عليه السلام) came to him, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) told `Ali (عليه السلام),  

“Had there not been the fear that some people from my community would say about you what people said in the past about Jesus son of Mary, I would have extolled your virtues so much that people would pick up the dust from under your feet and the water flowing from your ablutions to treasure it as a cure for everything. But suffice is it that you are from me and I am from you, you would inherit from me and I would inherit from you, and you are to me what Aaron was to Moses except that there shall be no prophet after me. You would be my trustee to discharge my debts and you would be the one who would fight for establishing the tradition set up by me. On Doomsday, you would be my nominee at the Fountain in Paradise [Kawthar]. 

(Rawdat al-waizin, vol. 1, p.112; Amaali by Shaykh Saduq, p. 86; al-Mustarshad, p.633;  Kashf al-Ghummah, vol.1, p. 298; Irshad al-Quloob, 145; Kashf al-Yaqin, p.17; Ilam al- Wara fi Alam al-Huda, p.188.) 

Edited by randomly curious

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22 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

see this,

peiple might've not called Ali (عليه السلام) as god for no reason.

but if people only take the Qur'an and leave the tafseer (exegesis) and interpret qur'an by their own will and can't prove their very own claims, and label all the Hadeeths regarding the merits of Ahl ul bayt (عليه السلام) as unauthentic,

again, i am sorry. i ain't responsible for that too

 

jabir ibn `Abdullah al-Ansari relates that after the conquest of Khaybar, when `Ali (عليه السلام) came to him, the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) told `Ali (عليه السلام),  

“Had there not been the fear that some people from my community would say about you what people said in the past about Jesus son of Mary, I would have extolled your virtues so much that people would pick up the dust from under your feet and the water flowing from your ablutions to treasure it as a cure for everything. But suffice is it that you are from me and I am from you, you would inherit from me and I would inherit from you, and you are to me what Aaron was to Moses except that there shall be no prophet after me. You would be my trustee to discharge my debts and you would be the one who would fight for establishing the tradition set up by me. On Doomsday, you would be my nominee at the Fountain in Paradise [Kawthar]. 

(Rawdat al-waizin, vol. 1, p.112; Amaali by Shaykh Saduq, p. 86; al-Mustarshad, p.633;  Kashf al-Ghummah, vol.1, p. 298; Irshad al-Quloob, 145; Kashf al-Yaqin, p.17; Ilam al- Wara fi Alam al-Huda, p.188.) 

That is right.Ali as is wali of Allah'.And can do maricles by the will of Allah. But in every maricle he would do it only when Allah permits. I feel no one can deny it.

So is the maricles of Holy Prophet saw or other Prophets.They all had Power of maricles as given by Allah.

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10 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That is right.Ali as is wali of Allah'.And can do maricles by the will of Allah. But in every maricle he would do it only when Allah permits. I feel no one can deny it.

So is the maricles of Holy Prophet saw or other Prophets.They all had Power of maricles as given by Allah.

thank God the readers can understand it.

but few ignorants (who even can't prove why they accept some Hadeeth and reject other) cannot understand it 

and again,

i ain't responsible for that

Edited by randomly curious

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5 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

thank God the readers can understand it.

but few ignorants (who even can't prove why they accept some Hadeeth and reject other) cannot understand it 

and again,

i ain't responsible for that

No, Shia rejected the maricles of Imams.Rather even many other than Imams (Awlias) have done maricle.

But we should learn the what Imams paractice that much Important what they demanded.

At the same we should only say those maricles that were authentic.

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In true and established traditions it is mentioned that, ‘do not call us Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and then say anything, our high position will remain beyond your exhaustive comprehension. Our ‘Amar’ –matter is very difficult or heavy to be borne only by a chosen angel, selected messenger or a momin with trusted  heart” (tested by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

 

 

as I've quoted those two Hadeeth,

People might Have not called Ali (عليه السلام) as god for no reason

 

so I've proved each and every point of mine from Qur'an and  authentic Hadeeth and the part of creating everything was from nahj al balagha

 

while on the other Hand if few ignorants can't bear the merits and reject them, My master Mahdi (عليه السلام) will make them bear it. and If these ignorants reject Him as well, then they will not reject Him but they will rather reject Allah azwj

w s

 

edit: few ignorants Outhere are like,

if Imam (عليه السلام) Reappears and says i do this and that, i created this and that

these ignorants will go to the Imam (عليه السلام) and say O Imam but this is being contradictory with the Holy Quran

 

this is the amount of intellect they posses lol

 

edit again: there is no where mentioned in the Holy Qur'an regarding each and every Prophet. not even the figure of amount.

still as usual ignorants wil accept what they like and reject what they don't

Please do not rely only on the Holy Qur'an without even Having a look at its tafseer. 

there are so many verses in praise of Ahl ul bayt which Allah azwj kept as secret then reveald it through lisaanullah i e tafseer

 

for example see this

 

Allah is Light of the skies and the earth. An example of His Light is like a niche wherein is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, and the glass is as if it is a brightly shining star ignited from a Blessed tree of olives, neither eastern nor western.Its oil almost illuminates and even though fire does not touch it. Light upon Light. Allah Guides to His Light ones He so Desires to, and Allah Strikes examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things [24:35]

 

 

It has been reported from Jabir Bin Abdullah Al Ansary who said,

‘I entered the Masjid Al-Kufa, and Amir-Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) was writing with his finger and smiling.

So I said to him (عليه السلام) , ‘O Amir-Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) , what is it which 
make you laugh?’

So he said:

‘I wonder at the one who recites this Verse and does not understand it as it deserves to be understood’.

So I said to him, ‘Which Verse, O Amir-Al-Momineenasws?’

 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘The Words of the Exalted: Allah is Light of the skies and the earth[24:35].

The niche is Muhammad saws, wherein is a lamp - I  am the lamp, the lamp is in a glass, The glass - Al Hassan (عليه السلام) and Al-Husayn (عليه السلام), as if it is a brightly shining star - it is Ali Bin Al Husayn (عليه السلام), ignited from a Blessed tree Muhammad Bin Ali (عليه السلام), of olives - Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), neither eastern -Musa Bin Ja’far (عليه السلام), nor western - Ali Bin Musa (عليه السلام) , Its oil almost illuminates - Muhammad Bin Ali (عليه السلام)- and even though fire does not touch it -Ali Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), Light upon Light - Al-Hassan Ibn Ali (عليه السلام), Allah Guides to His Light ones He so Desires to - Al-Qaim Al-Mahdi (عليه السلام), and Allah Strikes examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things [24:35]’.

 

Edited by randomly curious

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On 5/29/2020 at 3:47 PM, Guest Quran and Itrah said:

Does anyone believe Imam Ali, with the permission of Allah, gives life, splits the seed, grows vegetation, forms us in our wombs, and by the permission of Allah, takes lives.

Never heard of such before but even if these are truthful, it is by the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), as you mentioned.

Quote

Would such a person be considered a Mushrik, and one who has committed Shirk?

How would he be a mushrik considering the fact that such acts are done by the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? Performing miracles, with the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), isn’t committing shirk. Nabi Isa ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) brought the dead back to life, did he commit shirk? According to Sunni books, Umar prayer to the Prophet’s deceased uncle for rain, and was apparently given rain, was he a mushrik? According to Sunni books, whatever Umar said it apparently became the Holy Quran, isn’t this shirk? 

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11 hours ago, islam25 said:

That is right.Ali as is wali of Allah'.And can do maricles by the will of Allah. But in every maricle he would do it only when Allah permits. I feel no one can deny it.

So is the maricles of Holy Prophet saw or other Prophets.They all had Power of maricles as given by Allah.

Quran 4:59 is an address to people who are faithful, to obey Allah and Obey Messenger and those who have been given authority among them. 

I dont need to quote references that ulil-Amr are 12 Imams.

They have already been given authority by Allah.

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Salaam people,


I've got a clarification regarding that extract from nahj al balagha.


As i said that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said,


Allah azwj created us and we created rest all the creation.


The actual translation is,


Allah azwj created us and we created all the humans.

(Allah azwj Has created Million worlds and Million Aadam's (Human race)


I Had asked a man who took education from najaf e ashraf to translate it. Then i realised that the extract says 

"Wan-naasu" 


Then i wondered it might be for Humans. Then i asked Him again, then He said, yes it says Humans.

 

i know people won't be able to consume it either.


Anyways,


in Hadeeth e tariq He (عليه السلام) says,

 

Allah-azwj’s (creative) command is between the letter ‘Kaaf’ and the letter ‘Nun’ ("Kun"/"Be!"). Infact they (Imam's) are the ‘Kaaf’ and the ‘Nun’ since they invite to Allah-azwj, speak only what they receive from Him and carry out His commands.

 

in surah Yaseen Allah azwj says,

 

But rather, He Commands it, whenever He Intends a thing, Saying to it: “Be!”, so it comes into being [36:82]

 

In (the book) Nahj-al-Balagah,

 

(Amir Al-Momineen-asws) said:

 

‘He-azwj Said when Intending the Universe “Be!”, and it came into being– not by sound branching out, and not a call that can be heard, and it is the Speech of the Glorious, Action from Him-azwj, His Desire and the like of it. There was no universe like that before, and if there had been one from before, it would require another god.

 

Tafseer Noor Al Saqalayn – CH 36 H 93

Edited by randomly curious

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This thread has temporarily been locked. Open dialogue and discussion is encouraged on this forum. However there are some points to be noted:

-personal attacks and disrespectful exchanges are not appreciated. All posts including slander or personal attacks will be removed.

-it is important to remain on topic and not to derail the thread. Off topic posts will be removed.

-references and proof are essential in religious discussions and even more so when fundamental concepts such as tawheed and shirk are being discussed. Therefore any conclusive statements on these subjects will be removed if they aren't presented with proof.

Once this topic has been cleaned up it will be opened again. Please keep the above guidelines in mind. 

JazakumAllah. 

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The thread is being opened up again. We don't like to heavily edit threads in the way we have now done. However, there were several off topic posts and discussions and there were many personal attacks.

We will watch this thread carefully and anyone who engages in personal attacks will be warned. Any further off topic posts will be deleted. 

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