Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Guest Quran and Itrah

Does Imam Ali give life and take death, with the permission of Allah?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

47 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

I asked Abu Ja’far (عليه السلام) about the Words of Allahazwj Mighty and Majestic:

All things will perish except for His Face [28:88]. Heasws said: ‘By Allah-azwj! We (عليه السلام) are the ones who have been Spoken about, and we will never perish up to the Day of Judgement with what Allah-azwj has Commanded with from obedience to us-asws, and being in our Wilayah.

 

clearly the Hadeeth says Masoomeen (عليه السلام) will never perish even upto the day of judgement.

and clearly the Hadeeth mentions day of judgement.

argue with quran and Hadeeth and not opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

clearly the Hadeeth says Masoomeen (عليه السلام) will never perish even upto the day of judgement.

and clearly the Hadeeth mentions day of judgement.

argue with quran and Hadeeth and not opinions.

I never say Imam will perish and etc.

I just forwarded the different commentary of the verse.

Allah say "Allah is Noor of Heavens and earth".

That indirectly means what ever you see is tha attributes of Allah.

Or what ever is that Allah.

We may say it is sun, moon, earth etc.

But in reality it is attributes of Allah' .

Edited by islam25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Allah say "Allah is Noor of Heavens and earth".

That indirectly means what ever you see is tha attributes of Allah.

Or what ever is that Allah.

We may say it is sun, moon, earth etc.

But in reality it is attributes of Allah' .

you're committing kufr according to Hadeeth by interpreting Qur'an by your own will 

dont just rely on Qur'an without the tafseer.

you're giving opinions again and agian despite telling you argue with Quran or Hadeeth. 

dude, listen i know youre doing this deliberately. i don't want to waste my breath explaining the same thing again and again to you 

people out Here Have more intellect then me and you. so let them judge according to the verses and Hadeeths ive posted.

the opinions of your aalim are contradictory with authentic Hadeeth and tafseer. so now its your responsibility to throw it away according to the Hadeeth of Masoomeen (عليه السلام)

Edited by randomly curious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

you're committing kufr according to Hadeeth by interpreting Qur'an by your own will 

dont just rely on Qur'an without the tafseer.

you're giving opinions again and agian despite telling you argue with Quran or Hadeeth. 

dude, listen i know youre doing this deliberately. i don't want to waste my breath explaining the same thing again and again to you 

pleople out Here Have more intellect then me and you. so let them judge according to the verses and Hadeeths ive posted.

the opinions of your aalim are contradictory with authentic Hadeeth and tafseer. so now its your responsibility to throw it away according to the Hadeeth of Masoomeen (عليه السلام)

Mr.

If my scholar like Imam Khomini ra is wrong and you are right.

Sorry it can't be accepted. I don't deny you should have different openion.But do be judgmental on others that too who are not ordinary but great scholar.

I may suggest that you to go through the commentry of suratul Hamad by Khomini.

It will give you different view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, randomly curious said:

w.s brother, 

 

as Allah azwj says in surah rahman

 

Everyone upon it will perish [55:26]

 

And there will remain the Face of your Lord, with the Majesty and the Honour [55:27]

 

so in tafseer we get face is reffered to the Masoomeen (عليه السلام) 

and if Mawla (عليه السلام) says i am the first and the last 

this means He was created very first as noor and as for the last it means only Allah azwj and Masoomeen (عليه السلام) will remain. rest everything will perish.

 

One Bedouin asked Amirul Momineen (s.a.):

Mawla (s.a.) tell me something about you.

Imam (s.a.) said:

“I am Siddeeq e Akbar, and Farooq e Azam, and I am Wasi of Khairul Bashar ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.), and I am Awwal, and I am Akhar, and I am Zahir, and I am Batin, and I have the knowledge of everything, and I am Eye of Allah, and I am Janb Ullah, and I am trustee of Allah over Prophets ((عليه السلام).), due 
to me worship of Allah was done, and we are the trusties of the treasures of Allah in the skies and the earth, and I give life, and I give death, and I am that alive that there is no death 
for me.” 

Bedouin got perplexed.

(So Mawla Ali (s.a.) explained to him 
according to his capacity, so that he should not loose his faith) 


(al Qatra, V 2, P 192)

 

also knowledge of everything doesn't mean literally everything. i will post a Hadeeth similar to it

 

 Rasool Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.) said: “Certainly when I went 
to my Rabb during Mairaj, He sent me revelation from behind the veil, whatever revelation it was, and addressed to me and during this address He said this as well:

Ya Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! Ali (s.a.) Awwal, Ali (s.a.) Akhar, Ali 
(s.a.) Zahir, Ali (s.a.) Batin, and he has the knowledge of everything.

I asked:

Ya Rabb! Are you not like that? Is this 
not for you? He said: Ya Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! I am Allah, there is non worthy of worship except Me. I am al-Malik-ul Quddoos-us Salaam-ul Momin-ul Mohaimin-ul Aziz-ul 
Jabbar-ul Muttakabbir, and I am above the Shirk of polytheists. No doubt I am Allah, there is non worthy of worship except me, I am Khaliq, Bari, Mussawir, Asmaul Husna are for Me, whatever is in the skies and the earth is doing my Tasbeeh, and I am Azizul Hakeem.

 

Ya Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! no doubt I am Allah, there is non worthy of worship except Me, I am Awwal there is nothing before that, and I am Akhar there is nothing after Me, and I 
am Zahir there is nothing above Me, and I am Batin there is nothing under Me, and I am Allah, there is none worthy of worship except Me, I have the knowledge of everything. 
Ya Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! Ali (s.a.) is Awwal among Imams (s.a.a.), first of all covenant was taken concerning him. Ya Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! Ali (s.a.) is Akhar, he will return to 
Me last of all Imams (s.a.a.), and he is Da’abbatul Arz who will speak to them. Ya Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! Ali (s.a.) is Zahir, whatever I revealed to you, it is known to him, it is not 
like this that anything is hidden from him. Ya Mohammad  ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! Ali (s.a.) is Batin, he is keeper of my secrets, which secrets are with you as well, there is no secret between 
Me and you which is hidden from him. Ya Mohammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.w.)! Whatever Halaal and Haraam has been created, 
Ali (s.a.) has its knowledge. 

 


(Basair al Darajat, V 2, P 475)

 

 

Brother, you google searched these hadiths.............. where are the chain of narrators....................

https://hubeali.com/books/English-Books/Book-Flowers-of-Devotion.pdf

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

Brother, you google searched these hadiths.............. where are the chain of narrators....................

https://hubeali.com/books/English-Books/Book-Flowers-of-Devotion.pdf

 

salaam brother, 

primary source should always be the Qur'an. 

and nothing is contradictory with the Holy Qur'an and other sahih Hadeeths

Edited by randomly curious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, randomly curious said:

salaam brother, 

primary source should always be the Qur'an. 

and nothing is contradictory with the Holy Qur'an

LOL then why are you using hadiths that you google searched, do NOT know its chain of narrators (for authenticity purposes), and then arguing with other members ? The other brother is kindly replying with his intellect, and here you are googling hadiths off of sites that you do not even know are from reliable narrators........ 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, YoungSkiekh313 said:

LOL then why are you using hadiths that you google searched, do NOT know its chain of narrators (for authenticity purposes), and then arguing with other members ? The other brother is kindly replying with his intellect, and here you are googling hadiths off of sites that you do not even know are from reliable narrators........ 

Lol

ilm e rijaal is always the secondary source. fabricators weren't dumb to use a majool ravi to support their fabrications. 

read sermon of recognition of noor everything will be proven to you and the Hadeeth posted above are completely in match with that sermon

 

also Imam (عليه السلام) Himself says

In true and established traditions it is mentioned that, ‘do not call us Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and then say anything, our high position will remain beyond your exhaustive comprehension. Our ‘Amar’ – matter is very difficult or heavy to be borne only by a chosen angel, selected messenger or a momin with trusted heart” (tested by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Edited by randomly curious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, randomly curious said:

Lol

ilm e rijaal is always the secondary source. fabricators weren't dumb to use a majool ravi to support their fabrications. 

read sermon of recognition of noor everything will be proven to you and the Hadeeth posted above are completely in match with that sermon

 

also Imam (عليه السلام) Himself says

In true and established traditions it is mentioned that, ‘do not call us Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and then say anything, 
our high position will remain beyond your exhaustive comprehension.
Our ‘Amar’ – matter is very difficult or heavy to be borne only by a chosen angel, selected messenger or a momin with trusted heart” (tested by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). They also say; “

-_____-

 

Have a nice night brother ........ and please next time when another brother is replying to you with his intellect, have some humility when you're just googling and using whatever hadiths pop up to support your views......

Wish you the best, 

WS 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

brother, id recommend you to first read the sermon of recognition of noor. each and every word will be proved to you.

(its a 5 page long sermon)

Aimmah (عليه السلام) says vouch through Qur'an and Hadeeths

(obviously we will use sahih Hadeths)

 and sermon of recognition of noor includes everything from those two Hadeeth

H 33344 – And from Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Abdullah Bin Muhammad, from Ali Ibn Al Hakam, from Aban Bin Usman, from Abdullah Bin Abu Ya’four who said that it was narrated to him from Al Husayn Bin Abu Al A’la, who was present with Ibn Abu Ya’four in this gathering, says:

‘I asked Abu Abd Allahasws about the differences in Hadith, narrated from one whom we trust and from those whom we do not trust’. Heasws said: ‘If a Hadith is referred to you and you find a witness for it from the Book of Allahazwj or from the statements of the Messenger of Allahsaww, then its authentic, otherwise give it back to the one who brought it’.

(Wasail ul Shia, H. 33344)

 

Edited by randomly curious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

brother, id recommend you to first read the sermon of recognition of noor. each and every word will be proved to you.

(its a 5 page long sermon)

Aimmah (عليه السلام) says vouch through Qur'an and Hadeeths

(obviously we will use sahih Hadeths)

 and sermon of recognition of noor includes everything from those two Hadeeth

H 33344 – And from Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Abdullah Bin Muhammad, from Ali Ibn Al Hakam, from Aban Bin Usman, from Abdullah Bin Abu Ya’four who said that it was narrated to him from Al Husayn Bin Abu Al A’la, who was present with Ibn Abu Ya’four in this gathering, says:

‘I asked Abu Abd Allahasws about the differences in Hadith, narrated from one whom we trust and from those whom we do not trust’. Heasws said: ‘If a Hadith is referred to you and you find a witness for it from the Book of Allahazwj or from the statements of the Messenger of Allahsaww, then its authentic, otherwise give it back to the one who brought it’.

(Wasail ul Shia, H. 33344)

 

Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth.(24:35)

Everything is illuminated by His light. Everything has appeared by dint of His light. This appearance itself is a reflection of His light. Man's appearance is also a light. Therefore man himself is a light. Animals are also a light of Allah's glory. The existence of the heavens and the earth is a light from Allah. This light has so passed away in Allah that the Qur'an has said: Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth.

It has not said that the heavens and the earth are illuminated by the light of Allah. The reason is that the heavens and the earth are a nonentity. Nothing in our world has an independent existence of its own. In other words there is nothing here that is self-existing. In fact there is no existent other than Allah,

Imam Khomini ra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

sir, ive repeatedly told you, 

please if you're arguing with me only post verses or Hadeeth.

The above is the commentary of the verse of quran(Allah is the light of Heavens and earth).

What else you need.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol

look at the tafseer first.  

It has been reported from Jabir Bin Abdullah Al Ansary who said,

‘I entered the Masjid Al-Kufa, and Amir-Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) was writing with his finger and smiling.

So I said to him (عليه السلام) , ‘O Amir-Al-Momineen (عليه السلام) , what is it which 
make you laugh?’

So he said:

‘I wonder at the one who recites this Verse and does not understand it as it deserves to be understood’.

So I said to him, ‘Which Verse, O Amir-Al-Momineenasws?’

 He (عليه السلام) said: ‘The Words of the Exalted: Allah is Light of the skies and the earth[24:35].

The niche is Muhammad saws, wherein is a lamp - I  am the lamp, the lamp is in a glass, The glass - Al Hassan (عليه السلام) and Al-Husayn (عليه السلام), as if it is a brightly shining star - it is Ali Bin Al Husayn (عليه السلام), ignited from a Blessed tree Muhammad Bin Ali (عليه السلام), of olives - Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), neither eastern -Musa Bin Ja’far (عليه السلام), nor western - Ali Bin Musa (عليه السلام) , Its oil almost illuminates - Muhammad Bin Ali (عليه السلام)- and even though fire does not touch it -Ali Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام), Light upon Light - Al-Hassan Ibn Ali (عليه السلام), Allah Guides to His Light ones He so Desires to - Al-Qaim Al-Mahdi (عليه السلام), and Allah Strikes examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things [24:35]’.

 

247 غاية المرام: 317 ،اللوامع النورانية:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And from him (Ali Bin Ibrahim) who said, ‘Hameed Bin Ziyad narrated to us, from Muhammad Bin Al 
Husayn, from Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Talha Bin Zayd, 


(It has been narrated) from Ja’far Bin Muhammad (عليه السلام) , from his father, 
regarding this Verse:

Allah is Light of the skies and the earth [24:35] Allah is Light of the skies and the earth,

I said to Ja’far Bin Muhammadasws, ‘May I be sacrificed for you– O my Master– They (people) are saying, ‘There is a resemblance for the Light of the Lordazwj?’ Heasws said: ‘Glory be to Allah-azwj! There is no resemblance for Allah-azwj! Allah-azwj Says: Therefore, do not strike 
resemblances for Allah [16:74]

 

 103 :2 مي ّالق تفسير) Extract)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

check this.

its all metaphorical

Ali Bin Muhammad, from Sahl Bin Ziyad, from Yaqoub Bin Yazeed, from Al Abbas Bin Hilal who said, 


‘I asked Al-Reza (عليه السلام) about the Words of Allah-azwj: Allah is Light of the skies and the earth [24:35]. So he (عليه السلام) said:

A Guide for the inhabitants of the sky and a Guide for the inhabitants of the earth’. 
 
And in a report of Al-Barqy,

‘(He-asws said): ‘A Guidance for the ones in the sky and a Guidance for the ones in the earth’

 

Al Kafi V 1 – The Book Of Tawheed (Oneness of Allahazwj) CH 16 H 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most of the Shia believes in the Wilayah of Imams. The "Wilayah" of Imams is not limited to tashri'i but also includes the takwini sphere. But one must keep in view the fact that it is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who is "Mowla-e-Haqq" who has granted wilayah to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams. 

So yes, Imams can manage to do all these things with the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), we have evidences for this in Qur'an. 

For instance, The case of Asif bin Barqiyah, a person who possess little knowledge of the book who brought the thrown within the blink of an eye. Does he asked for the permission of Allah for doing that miracle? No, he just did that when his master (Prophet Suleman (عليه السلام)) asked to bring the thrown, displaying what powers has been granted to him by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Quote

[Shakir 38:39] This is Our free gift, therefore give freely or withhold, without reckoning.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has granted the Aal-e-Ibrahim a grand kingdom.
 

Quote

Shakir 4:54] Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.

It's like our core belief that it is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (10:3, 10:31, 13:2, 32:5) who regulates the affairs ( يُدَبِّرُ الأَمْرَ ) , but meanwhile we see angels too are mentioned as those who regulates the affairs, it is purely a takwini matter:
 

Quote

Shakir 79:5] Then those who regulate the affair.

Since our belief that angels too regulate the affairs has no impact on the Oneness of Almighty Lord & on His absolute authority, therefore believing that Imams can do all the things too has no impact on the Towheed & absolute authority of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) because whatever powers/authority Imam possess, is from the absolute owner of the Authority which is only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

However, what is more appropriate, is to look at & keep your focus at the main source i.e., Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), because if I were to do some job on your order, it is actually you who're taking work from me and it establishes only your authority, even over me too.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We can’t wrap all of our shirk in “with the permission of Allah” and hope it gets bypassed.

In the Quran, Allah states clearly he is the one who grants life and death. Then why even attempt to challenge that? I’m seeing clear cut evidence from the Quran challenged with hadith. I thought the most basic principle of hadith science is if it contradicts the Quran then negate it.

Also, what is the fascination of giving Imams—in particular Imam Ali the characteristics of Allah? It makes no sense to me. The ghuluw is always with Imam Ali. It’s never with Rasoolallah—even this would be incorrect but I could understand it slightly more as there could be parallels drawn to Christians and their ghuluw with their messenger. However, for the Shias the ghuluw is always with Imam Ali. It’s like Christians saying John is the son of God and the Holy Spirit. Jesus was just a messenger.

Edited by Mahdavist
Statements that attributed ghuluw without evidence were removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, 786:) said:

In the Quran, Allah states clearly he is the one who grants life and death. Then why even attempt to challenge that?

Are you blind? People here are giving examples from Quran. Don't you believe Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام) made the dead alive by the permission of Allah? 

Have you ever read the Quran how many times it is written in it "be ithnillah" (by the permission of Allah)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“How can you disbelieve in Allah when you were lifeless and He brought you to life; then He will cause you to die, then He will bring you [back] to life, and then to Him you will be returned.

It is He who created for you all of that which is on the earth. Then He directed Himself to the heaven, [His being above all creation], and made them seven heavens, and He is Knowing of all things.”

Quran 2:28-29

So when Allah refers to ‘he’, is he referring to Imam Ali? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 786:) said:

“How can you disbelieve in Allah when you were lifeless and He brought you to life; then He will cause you to die, then He will bring you [back] to life, and then to Him you will be returned.

It is He who created for you all of that which is on the earth. Then He directed Himself to the heaven, [His being above all creation], and made them seven heavens, and He is Knowing of all things.”

Quran 2:28-29

So when Allah refers to ‘he’, is he referring to Imam Ali? 

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 49:
وَرَسُولًا إِلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنِّي قَدْ جِئْتُكُم بِآيَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ أَنِّي أَخْلُقُ لَكُم مِّنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ فَأَنفُخُ فِيهِ فَيَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَأُبْرِئُ الْأَكْمَهَ وَالْأَبْرَصَ وَأُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَأُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا تَأْكُلُونَ وَمَا تَدَّخِرُونَ فِي بُيُوتِكُمْ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَةً لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ

And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
(English - Shakir)

In this verse, the example of creation as well as bringing the dead to life is mentioned clearly. Do you deny the wilayah e takwiniyah?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cool said:

Are you blind? People here are giving examples from Quran. Don't you believe Prophet Jesus (عليه السلام) made the dead alive by the permission of Allah? 

Have you ever read the Quran how many times it is written in it "be ithnillah" (by the permission of Allah)?

Okay, even Sufis will claim even Moinuddin Chisti can give life and death too by the permission of Allah. That’s okay too?

When the Quran gives examples, Isa was alive and Allah chose him to be the intermediary to give life. Imam Ali is dead. So are you saying he killed himself? Who was giving life and taking life when Imam Ali was alive? Are you saying Allah only does his job part time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/3/2020 at 4:37 PM, 786:) said:

 

 

On 6/3/2020 at 4:37 PM, 786:) said:

We can’t wrap all of our shirk in “with the permission of Allah” and hope it gets bypassed.

did not eesa (عليه السلام) gave life to the dead? didn't Ibrahim (عليه السلام) slaughtered the bird and brought them back to life? why did Allah azwj didn't choose Sulaiman (عليه السلام) to bring the throne and made Him ask to His successor to do that miracle? there are so many miracles performed by the Prophets in the Holy Qur'an.

 

see the amount of knowledge Asif bin Barkhiya Had from the book despite Having 1 letter from ism e aazam.

He (the narrator) said, ‘I said, ‘May I be sacrificed for you-asws! I have read it’. He-asws said: ‘So do you recognise the man, and do you know what was with him from the knowledge of the Book?’ I said, ‘Inform me of it’. 

He-asws said: ‘A measurement of a drop of water from the green ocean

eesa (عليه السلام) Had only 2 letters 

asif hin Barkhiya Had only 1 letter and His knowledge is compared to just a drop from the green ocean 

How much do you think eesa (عليه السلام) Had? two drops? or may be a little more?

 

Aimmah (عليه السلام) Have the knowledge of a 1000 books lol 

please express your naasibiyat somewhere else.

As you re saying Allah azwj says He gives death. 

agreed 

but why you are ignoring in the same book  Allah azwj also says Angel of death gives death. 

lol youre like lets take what we like, lets leave which we don't

Edited by Mahdavist
Deleted quote removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 786:) said:

Okay, even Sufis will claim even Moinuddin Chisti can give life and death too by the permission of Allah. That’s okay too?

Everyone who is at the level of wilayah e takwini, can do that. May he be anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

our Aimmah (عليه السلام) Has informed us what to say and what to not.

so please don't give opinions. prove me wrong usning Hadeeth or Qur'an

 

 In true and established traditions it is mentioned that, ‘do not call us Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and then say anything, our high position will remain beyond your exhaustive comprehension. Our ‘Amar’ – matter is very difficult or heavy to be borne only by a chosen angel, selected messenger or a momin with trusted heart” (tested by Allah azwj)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

ive given the definition of ghuluw and shirk above. 

did not eesa (عليه السلام) gave life to the dead? didn't Ibrahim (عليه السلام) slaughtered the bird and brought them back to life? why did Allah azwj didn't choose Sulaiman (عليه السلام) to bring the throne and made Him ask to His successor to do that miracle? there are so many miracles performed by the Prophets in the Holy Qur'an.

 

see the amount of knowledge Asif bin Barkhiya Had from the book despite Having 1 letter from ism e aazam.

He (the narrator) said, ‘I said, ‘May I be sacrificed for you-asws! I have read it’. He-asws said: ‘So do you recognise the man, and do you know what was with him from the knowledge of the Book?’ I said, ‘Inform me of it’. 

He-asws said: ‘A measurement of a drop of water from the green ocean

eesa (عليه السلام) Had only 2 letters 

asif hin Barkhiya Had only 1 letter and His m knowledge is compared to just a drop from the green ocean 

How much do you this eesa (عليه السلام) Had? two drops? or may be a little more?

 

Aimmah (عليه السلام) Have the knowledge of a 1000 books lol 

please express your naasibiyat somewhere else.

As you re saying Allah azwj says He gives death. 

agreed 

but why you are ignoring in the same book  Allah azwj also says Angel of death gives death. 

lol youre like lets take what we like, lets leave which we don't

Right. Imams have 99% of the knowledge of Allah has. The only 1% is day the of judgement? They know everything else? I will bring you clear cut verses of the Quran where Allah states the Prophet does not have Ilm ul Ghayb. But that won’t suffice because supposedly we are to judge the Quran with hadith that we like. Not the other way around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Okay, even Sufis will claim even Moinuddin Chisti can give life and death too by the permission of Allah. That’s okay too?

Moinuddin chisti wasn't choosen by Allah azwj

 

Ali (عليه السلام) was, that too as His divine representative.

 

if you want to take it from sufis, then why you reject christians when they say eesa (عليه السلام) as god? despite the miracles are proven from the Qur'an itself.

Edited by randomly curious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 786:) said:

Right. Imams have 99% of the knowledge of Allah has. The only 1% is day the of judgement? They know everything else? I will bring you clear cut verses of the Quran where Allah states the Prophet does not have Ilm ul Ghayb. But that won’t suffice because supposedly we are to judge the Quran with hadith that we like. Not the other way around.

lol dude. ive already quoted the tafseer from surah jinn on the very first page. 

 

i don't know why you suddenly go blind when something is against you. lol 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

lol dude. ive already quoted the tafseer from surah jinn on the very first page. 

 

i don't know why you suddenly go blind when something is against you. lol 

You know there are tons of tafseers out there right? They ultimately are interpretation of fallible individuals from them attempting to connect HADITH with Quran. And I’m sure you know hadith can be a “pick and choose” game.

Maybe if you brought mutawatir hadith in connection with a Quranic verse, you would have some legs to stand on, but to simply say “hey it’s in a tafseer, you can’t deny it now” is laughable.

Edited by 786:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/3/2020 at 5:06 PM, 786:) said:

Maybe if you brought mutawatir hadith in connection with a Quranic verse, you would have some legs to stand on, but to simply say “hey it’s in a tafseer, you can’t deny it now” is laughable.

Lol dude.

the quranic verse also clearly says about Allah azwj granting rasoolAllah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) knowledge of the unseen its so manifest.

if the tafseer is forged as well according to you, then either you Have to believe they Have complete knowledge of the unseen via that verse. because Allah azwj didnt mention the quantity.

bhai let me make t clear for you. 

Edited by Mahdavist
Personal attacks removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/3/2020 at 5:10 PM, randomly curious said:

Lol dude.

the quranic verse also clearly says about Allah azwj granting rasoolAllah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) knowledge of the unseen its so manifest.

bhai let me make t clear for you

So protecting the establishment of Tawheed is nasibi now? Lol sure pal.

Theres a tafseer that states the only difference between Allah and Imams is that Allah is the creator of Imams and Imams are the created of Allah—everything else is the same. 

Edited by Mahdavist
Personal attacks removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/3/2020 at 5:14 PM, 786:) said:

So protecting the establishment of Tawheed is nasibi now? Lol sure pal.

 

ive written in my very first post,

Allah azwj doesn't does these thing coz He is too elevated and magnificent to do this. its inappropriate for Him to do this for Himself.

now this is something called defending tawheed.

On 6/3/2020 at 5:14 PM, 786:) said:

Theres a tafseer that states the only difference between Allah and Imams is that Allah is the creator of Imams and Imams are the created of Allah—everything else is the same.

ive proved each and every point of mine from either the Holy Qur'an or the authentic Hadeeth's

Edited by Mahdavist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 786:) said:

What’s funny is those who chant Ali Allah in the subcontinent also label those against such chants as nasibis.

la'an on them who say Ali (عليه السلام) as god

while we believe only what our Master (عليه السلام) says us  

In true and established traditions it is mentioned that, do not call us Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and then say anything, our high position will remain beyond your exhaustive comprehension. Our ‘Amar’ – matter is very difficult or heavy to be borne only by a chosen angel, selected messenger or a momin with trusted heart” (tested by Allah azwj)

Edited by randomly curious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, randomly curious said:

ive written in my very first post,

Allah azwj doesn't does these thing coz He is too elevated and magnificent to do this. its inappropriate for Him to do this for Himself.

Please provide a clear cut verse that supports this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...