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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammad313Ali

Black Lives Matter as a slogan [POLL]

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Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter

    • All Lives Matter
      16
    • Black Lives Matter
      17


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37 minutes ago, GD41586 said:

Good.

Police must be held to a higher standard than civilians because they are agents of the state who are given license to use violence as per the social contract. If I had my way, police would be robotic AIs who would primarily use nonlethal/less-lethal methods to gain compliance. Like Robocop just way less violent.

I disagree with the AI part, but I've been saying for a long time that police should use non-lethal weapons only. That wouldn't have helped in this case though - the officer killed the man with his foot. Only thing would have prevented this is a consistent history of police officers being held accountable for their actions. 

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It would be reasonable to conclude that the matter is not so black and white, but instead significant to the particular scenario at the time. BLM serves a valuable purpose after the injustice (lynching) is committed, however, in ordinary circumstances where they wish to establish their ideology it is conflicting.

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29 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

however, in ordinary circumstances where they wish to establish their ideology it is conflicting.

No. Their ideology is simply that it's not ok to assign less value to the life of a person simply because he is black. Their goal is to draw attention to racial injustice. If you are Muslim, there is no other side that is acceptable. It's pretty simple. Either you value human lives or you are wrong..

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I'm guessing most of the members who selected "All Lives Matter" are not American, don't understand the American context of the term, or realize its giant linguistic loophole of dehumanization. 

Black people are being disproportionately targeted by the criminal justice system, and to bring attention to that, it's essential that the phrase "Black Lives" exists. Not all lives are at equal risk, which is what "All Lives Matter" implies. It's downplaying the factor of race which exists, unless somebody denies this (which includes denying statistics). 

It's contradictory, but "all" doesn't really mean all. In the Declaration of Independence, it says "all men are created equal", but to the drafters, that's not the case (noticeably black men). Unless of course their definition of "men" is different than ours. Which is key. 

To give you an example maybe closer to home, in places where Shia lives are disproportionately targeted, is it not appropriate to say "Shia Lives Matter" to draw specific attention to the issue? It's important because:

1. It acknowledges Shia exist, and are worthy of being mentioned.

2. It acknowledges Shia face a unique and unfair predicament.

Forces who don't want emphasis on the above two things may come up with feel-good "unity" terms like "Muslim Lives Matter" or "Human Lives Matter". Some may be tricked into thinking this is loftier or more righteous. But it's not. The rhetorical loophole lies here:

1. Not everyone considers Shias to be Muslim.

2. Not everyone considers Shias to be treated like human beings.

3. Not mentioning "Shia" specifically increases chances they will be ignored, and more favorable groups will end up with more attention. 

This change of language is subtle and crafty, but has a big impact. 

This tweet shows what I'm talking about here too:

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14 hours ago, GD41586 said:

I just finished watching Waco last night (Netflix). I highly recommend that you all watch it if you really want a good grasp of how American Law Enforcement thinks & pay special attention to the "5000 to 1" comments made by Shea Wigham's "HRT Agent Mitch Decker" character. At least 50% of police at the state and federal level view the citizenry with complete and utter contempt & that's why I believe that law enforcement need to be held to ridiculously high standards for behavior and conduct.

Most Americans are fed-up with the two-tiered system of justice that imprisons the poor & working class in for-profit prisons while allowing thugs like these three cops and the wealthy to walk free with a stern talking-to; so I'm not surprised at all about what's going on in Minneapolis & I'm actually amazed that it's not worse than it already is. These types of incidents have to stop occurring or eventually that "5000 to 1" ratio is going to boil over nationally. On that day, state and federal law enforcement will understand that such is the reward that they have earned for themselves- that it's entirely their doing and they have no one left to blame: not blacks, not liberals, not patriotic conservatives-- they will have made their beds and will be forced to lie in them. I will be hunkering down and letting the rest of the population deal with it, I am not going to have blood on my hands for any reason... that's not what I am about and if it was, I would have gone off to the Army seventeen years ago instead of rethinking my decision at the last possible moment.

America has to confront the contradictions inherent in it's current ordering of itself. Will it? That remains to be seen, and is in Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) hands.
 

The Netflix Documentary on Waco was very biased, I'd recommend A&E's documentary, or something more fact based rather than media entertainment based. It was almost as bad as that Netflix Ted bundie film that made Ted bundie look like an innocent pop culture figure, rather than a sick murderer.

Otherwise I agree, police certainly need to be held to high standards. 

Edited by iCenozoic

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On 5/28/2020 at 3:07 PM, Mohammad313Ali said:

Following the tragic death of George Floyd many important matters that have been oftentimes debated, discussed, and brought to light are being amplified.

I am interested in what your thoughts are in regards to BLM and ALM, I believe an analogy that helped me understand the difference between BLM and ALM was when the term ShiaGenocide is used instead of Islamaphobia.

I as an individual really love all inclusive things and words, and I believe that some words such as “white privilege”, “white supremacist”, etc don’t serve in favor of an all inclusive goal or system.

Yes, we can agree that there are some who have suffered greater then others, but we can realize that without shaming an entire race. 

What are your thoughts?

@hasanhh @AmirioTheMuzzy @Muhammed Ali @Ashvazdanghe @GD41586 @Mahdavist @iCenozoic

I wonder first, what did George Floyd do to end up on the ground below a cop?  And then why would a cop do this to start WWIII in front of the whole world and US.  It is so

ill-timed and yet almost staged?  I suspect another agenda at work here....

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White House was in lockdown.

Secret Service in scuffles.

Democrats organized protests there. Crowd size started about 150 at 2 o'clock and at one point about 2,000.

Some grafitti and a few arrests in Lafeyette Park. Capitol and Park police involved.

OPINE: this "3rd degree murder" of Floyod is not something to politicize.

Elsewhere, curfew in Minneapolis(added to complete: "ignored"), lnterstates blocked in several cities.

Source: BBC

Edited by hasanhh
ignored

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Riots and protests in many cities. I hope they hurry up and arrest those other three cops. There's still a pandemic going on - I want everyone to be able to go safely home and stay there.

The coroner's report said Mr. Floyd died of natural causes. Pretty wacky timing if you ask me. He just happened to be under a policeman when he naturally expired? Coroners are on police payroll. 

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Nine minutes. That's actually a beautiful, well thought out statement. No injuries or damage to property at the time of writing this article. 

https://www.wavy.com/news/national/hundreds-gather-in-hampton-norfolk-in-protest-of-george-floyds-death-in-minneapolis/

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LA protesters block highway, burn US flag over police killing of black man

Quote

AhlulBayt News Agency (ABNA): According to Press TV, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz activated the National Guard to assist police as city, state and federal law enforcement officials sought to ease racial tensions sparked by Monday’s fatal arrest of 46-year-old Floyd.

More than 500 Guard members were activated and sent to Minneapolis and several surrounding cities. It was the first time the Minnesota National Guard has been activated for a civil disturbance in 34 years.

Several buildings in Minneapolis were set on fire. The blazes included one at the Third Police Precinct station, the epicenter of the three nights of demonstrations, after crowds of protesters broke in and set fires inside and behind the building.

Fires burned on both sides of the police station as demonstrators pushed down temporary fencing and occupied property at the precinct. Officers fired tear gas from the ground and a rooftop.

In the neighboring city of St. Paul, clouds of smoke hung in the air as police armed with batons and wearing gas masks and body armor patrolled the streets.

Sympathy protests erupted in Los Angeles, California, as well as in Denver, Colorado, with hundreds of demonstrators blocking highway traffic in both cities.

In a bizarre tweet on Thursday, President Donald Trump blamed the protesters and the “total lack of leadership” in Minneapolis. “Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts,” he said on Twitter.

https://en.abna24.com/news//minneapolis-police-station-torched-as-protests-grow-over-police-killing-of-black-m

25b2916b5c49db617f52fa5ea48efee7_166.jpg

where humanity goes?

the choice is yours

https://fa.abna24.com/news/اخبار-مراجع-عظام-تقلید/عکسی-جالبی-که-در-فضای-مجازی-خارج-از-ایران-دست-به-دست-می-شود-م_770330.html

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Iran deplores brutal killing of black citizen by US cop

Quote


“Brutal killing of #GeorgeFloyd by Minneapolis' white man in uniform in cold blood is a harrowing demonstration of systematic racism and white supremacism glorified by the current administration,” Mousavi wrote on his Twitter account on Thursday with the hasghtag #American_human_rights.

https://en.abna24.com/news//iran-deplores-brutal-killing-of-black-citizen-by-us-cop_1041083.html

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2 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Why is his hand in his pocket?

I'm not sure , maybe  it's look like an American  symbol of KKK  around Mississippi state that I saw in a movie that was about lynching in name of "Mississippi Burning " that one of  kkk characters that was a law enforcer  had a picture in his house with this posture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Burning

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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33 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I'm not sure , maybe  it's look like an American  symbol of KKK  around Mississippi state that I saw in a movie that was about lynching in name of "Mississippi Burning " that one of  kkk characters that was a law enforcer  had a picture in his house with this posture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Burning

l didn't watch this because the newspapers back then carried negative reviews. l self reported my post, but the question in my caption is to suggest self-abuse.

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

There seems to be a partisan tinge to this quote:

Quote

“Brutal killing of #GeorgeFloyd by Minneapolis' white man in uniform in cold blood is a harrowing demonstration of systematic racism and white supremacism glorified by the current administration,” Mousavi wrote on his Twitter account on Thursday with the hasghtag #American_human_rights.

Honestly, I don’t like the fact that both domestic and international players are politicising this and turning it into a partisan football.

Systematic, economically based racism is nothing new, certainly not in the West, which was in large part founded on genocide.

Additionally, I find that the timing of these events is too convenient and seems to serve the NWO elites very well, unfortunately.

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41 minutes ago, Northwest said:

Honestly, I don’t like the fact that both domestic and international players are politicising this and turning it into a partisan football

this is response of Iran to tweets of Trump & his crew for politicising every social issue in Iran in previous  years .

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@AkhiraisReal

There is a definite pattern that lies behind all the well-publicised police brutality and subsequent unrest.

Highly visible targets looted by gangs

Black-owned small businesses looted
 
Soros, CIA, Pentagon bus in looters
 
Drug traffickers, Special Ops involved
 
Heavily armed police stand by, idle
 
White Zionist billionaires gentrify area
 
Looting, virus excuse for martial law
Edited by Northwest
Individual(s)

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6 hours ago, Northwest said:

@AkhiraisReal

There is a definite pattern that lies behind all the well-publicised police brutality and subsequent unrest.

Highly visible targets looted by gangs

Black-owned small businesses looted
 
Soros, CIA, Pentagon bus in looters
 
Drug traffickers, Special Ops involved
 
Heavily armed police stand by, idle
 
White Zionist billionaires gentrify area
 
Looting, virus excuse for martial law

Soros definitely has his hand in a lot of the unrest in America since 2016, but that's because he owns Barack O-bomb-a and Hillary Clinton, and is enraged that the billions he invested in Hillary for 2016 was wasted as well as being furious that the nation is largely attempting to erase the stain that is his brainchild O-bomb-a.

Soros is a vampire.

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I have a question, where are we supposed to fall as Muslims with all these riots happening in several places in the United States? I understand that people are angry, and I am a supporter of Black lives. But isn’t it wrong to be setting buildings and police cars on fire? Can someone help me out? 

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On 5/29/2020 at 12:35 PM, Hameedeh said:

The policeman is in custody. 

 

18 hours ago, LunaGal said:

I wonder first, what did George Floyd do to end up on the ground below a cop?  And then why would a cop do this to start WWIII in front of the whole world and US.  It is so

ill-timed and yet almost staged?  I suspect another agenda at work here....

is it possible that they knew each other?

https://www.kstp.com/news/george-floyd-fired-officer-overlapped-security-shifts-at-south-minneapolis-club-may-28-2020/5743990/

A former club owner in south Minneapolis says the now-fired police officer and the black man who died in his custody this week both worked security for her club up to the end of last year.

George Floyd and now-former Officer Derek Chauvin both worked security at the El Nuevo Rodeo club on Lake Street, according to Maya Santamaria. Santamaria owned the building for nearly two decades, but sold the venue within the last few months. 

"Chauvin was our off-duty police for almost the entirety of the 17 years that we were open," Santamaria said. "They were working together at the same time, it's just that Chauvin worked outside and the security guards were inside." 

5 INVESTIGATES has reached out to Chauvin's attorney and the Minneapolis Police Department, but they could not be reached for comment at the time this story was published.

Although the two overlapped working security on popular music nights within the last year, Santamaria can not say for certain they knew each other because there were often a couple dozen security guards, including off-duty officers.

Santamaria says she did not recognize either one of her security guards in the video showing Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck not far from where they used to work.

"My friend sent me (the video) and said this is your guy who used to work for you and I said, 'It's not him.' And then they did the closeup and that's when I said, 'Oh my God, that's him,'" Santamaria said. "I didn't recognize George as one of our security guys because he looked really different lying there like that."

Santamaria still operates La Raza 95.7 FM radio station in the same building that houses El Nuevo Rodeo, but a power outage has knocked them off-air as a result of Tuesday's protests. The Latino owned business is two blocks east of where protests erupted in front of the Minneapolis Police Department Third Precinct and spilled into nearby businesses. Like their neighbors, the building's glass doors are shattered and now covered in graffiti. 

"All of the neighborhood has come out to volunteer and clean up and lend a hand," Santamaria said.

Santamaria says they are still updating the Latino community on their Facebook page until they can get power back.

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5 hours ago, KnowledgeSeeker36 said:

I have a question, where are we supposed to fall as Muslims with all these riots happening in several places in the United States? I understand that people are angry, and I am a supporter of Black lives. But isn’t it wrong to be setting buildings and police cars on fire? Can someone help me out? 

After the Rodney King riots, there is footage of an older black man, a local business owner with tears streaming down his face shouting at the rioters (paraphrase): "Why did you destroy my store? I worked my whole life, I played by the rules, and you riot and steal from me? destroy what I worked so hard to build? That isn't black power!"

That had a huge impact on me. I felt so deeply for that man because I cannot imagine what that's like to work that hard for your own business and have members of your own community give over to their inner evil and destroy it because they are mad at someone else. I wanted to go back in time and just give that man the biggest hug I could, and help him to put his life back together.

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1 minute ago, GD41586 said:

After the Rodney King riots, there is footage of an older black man, a local business owner with tears streaming down his face shouting at the rioters (paraphrase): "Why did you destroy my store? I worked my whole life, I played by the rules, and you riot and steal from me? destroy what I worked so hard to build? That isn't black power!"

That had a huge impact on me. I felt so deeply for that man because I cannot imagine what that's like to work that hard for your own business and have members of your own community give over to their inner evil and destroy it because they are mad at someone else. I wanted to go back in time and just give that man the biggest hug I could, and help him to put his life back together.

While indeed there have been buildings and police cars destroyed or damaged by protesters, there is now credible speculation that a lot of the damage to private property has been committed by outsiders who are not affiliated with the protesters, either to make the protesters look bad or to profit from tragedy. 

39 minutes ago, KnowledgeSeeker36 said:

I have a question, where are we supposed to fall as Muslims with all these riots happening in several places in the United States? I understand that people are angry, and I am a supporter of Black lives. But isn’t it wrong to be setting buildings and police cars on fire? Can someone help me out? 

We should stand on the side of justice.  Always.  You're going to have to use your own judgement.

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22 minutes ago, notme said:

While indeed there have been buildings and police cars destroyed or damaged by protesters, there is now credible speculation that a lot of the damage to private property has been committed by outsiders who are not affiliated with the protesters, either to make the protesters look bad or to profit from tragedy. 

Just hell-raisers. The same problem with outsiders rushing in also happened in Hong Kong after the subway incident.

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1 hour ago, notme said:

there is now credible speculation that a lot of the damage to private property has been committed by outsiders who are not affiliated with the protesters, either to make the protesters look bad or to profit from tragedy. 

 

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To my understanding the BLM slogan and movement was started as a reaction to a long history of factual mistreatment of the afro americans in the US by the police. And the ALM slogan was started as a reaction to the BLM slogan. As if the BLM slogan means that all lives does not matter.

I believe that whoever (most likely a think tank) started the ALM slogan had sinister motivations and wished to not only dilute the BLM movement by shifting the focus from the very real mistreatment of blacks by the police but to also discredit the whole concept of the movement by entering into semantic debate, further shifting the focus from the factual problem.

Obviously ALL lives matter, but are the police strangling ALL groups of people on the pavement in front of cameras and the public or is the blacks?

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3 hours ago, GD41586 said:

"Why did you destroy my store? I worked my whole life, I played by the rules, and you riot and steal from me? destroy what I worked so hard to build? That isn't black power!"

I've never understood the mentality of trashing your own neighbourhood.

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2 hours ago, Soldiers and Saffron said:

To my understanding the BLM slogan and movement was started as a reaction to a long history of factual mistreatment of the afro americans in the US by the police. And the ALM slogan was started as a reaction to the BLM slogan. As if the BLM slogan means that all lives does not matter.

BLM is an organization led by transsexuals, their website says herstory instead of history, it mentions women and parents but makes no mention of fathers, and it is against the nuclear family. BLM circles are notorious anti-male, they even made tweets about killing males.

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4 minutes ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

BLM is an organization led by transsexuals, their website says herstory instead of history, it mentions women and parents but makes no mention of fathers, and it is against the nuclear family. BLM circles are notorious anti-male, they even made tweets about killing males.

No, this is their website. https://blacklivesmatter.com/

I don't know much about the organization, but it appears you are mistaken. 

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3 hours ago, notme said:

No, this is their website. https://blacklivesmatter.com/

I don't know much about the organization, but it appears you are mistaken. 

Actually, he's telling the truth. I just grabbed this off their site:

"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable. We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise)."

Yuck. No. Do not want.


PS: Heterosexuality IS normal. That's the way that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made mankind to reproduce. Deal with it.

PPS: I still stand behind the slogan, but apparently not the group anymore.

Edited by GD41586

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2 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

BLM is an organization led by transsexuals, their website says herstory instead of history, it mentions women and parents but makes no mention of fathers, and it is against the nuclear family. BLM circles are notorious anti-male, they even made tweets about killing males.

BLM is a general slogan used by many. Any group that claims the name doesn't speak for everyone who uses the slogan.

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@notme @Brother Hassan You can't wholeheartedly defend a slogan, because after all this simmers down they'll use their popularity for ulterior motives that are conflicting with Islamic values. We support the oppressed yes, however, on our own terms.

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