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In the Name of God بسم الله
thegreenleaf

Is Religion Expanding Our Breasts?

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On 5/27/2020 at 11:08 PM, thegreenleaf said:

All Prophets عليهم السلام called us to be good. God, in the Quran, calls us to be good. The Imams عليهم السلام call us to be good people. Being good means being worshipping and loving God with all of one's heart. Being good means being truthful, trustworthy, humble, patient, kind, charitable. Being good means helping those in need. It means feeding the hungry, supporting orphans, being compassionate to the vulnerable. 

TheGreenleaf

Thanks so much for sharing this and the verses in the post and the next post Quran 33:35 and 90:12-18.  They are verse which set such a high standard for us to follow.  If all humanity lived by these standards we would be in a very different world.

I need to ask myself, Why if I know these things are good and right, do I find it so hard to live like this?  Is there a way that I can change to be someone who cares and loves like this?

When Jesus came he proclaimed that his mission was to do these things - His first recorded sermon showed this. NT Luke Chapter 4

16 Then Jesus went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath he went as usual to the synagogue. He stood up to read the Scriptures 17 and was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it is written,

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
    because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
    and recovery of sight to the blind,
to set free the oppressed
19     and announce that the time has come
    when the Lord will save his people.”

20 Jesus rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. All the people in the synagogue had their eyes fixed on him, 21 as he said to them, “This passage of scripture has come true today, as you heard it being read.”

I believe that those who follow Jesus will be given God's power, through the Holy Spirit living inside them, to begin to do these things too.  Thsi is what it means to be in God's Kingdom and accept his rule in our lives.

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2 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

If all humanity lived by these standards we would be in a very different world.

That's so true, Dave. Many of us believe in God and the Last Day; but this belief is not at the centre of our consciousness; otherwise it would be translated into a different set of actions. Our emotions are still attached to this world. But God can bring about a change of heart.
The Quran goes so far as to say that people who withhold kindness practically deny the Divine Judgement, even if they pray.

Al-Maun.png.d9a99b438ffc1a725bacc511aeb1ef1c.png

Have you considered the person who denies the Judgement? (1) 
It is he who pushes aside the orphan; (2)
and does not urge others to feed the needy; (3)
So woe to those who pray; (4)
But are heedless of their prayer; (5)
Those who are all show, (6)
and forbid simple kindness (7)

[Quran 107: 1-7]

Edited by thegreenleaf

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12 hours ago, thegreenleaf said:

True, but we are not the judge of that. You could as well quote one of these verses:

Say, ‘[God says], My servants who have harmed yourselves by your own excess, do not despair of God’s mercy. God forgives all sins: He is truly the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful. [39:53]

God does not forgive the worship of others beside Him- though He does forgive whoever He will for lesser sins- for whoever does this has gone far, far astray. [4:116]

It is God who decides who to punish and who to forgive. We are not God. God is God. 

In Principal, we agree that it is God who has the absolute right to judge. 

What I am arguing is based on the words of God as mentioned in Qur'an. If you just look at the verse 4:116 in light of verse 12:106, you will realize that majority of people believes but with shirk. And that is the reason it is mentioned in Qur'an that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will fill the Hell with Jinns & Humans. (11:119, 32:13, 38:85) 

Killing of Prophets & Aimma e Tahireen (عليه السلام)  is a big crime in the eyes of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the action itself emerge from shirk which has many types, one of it is shirk in obedience. Means not obeying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & the ones whom He has commanded to obey is kufr & obeying others besides those whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has commanded to obey is a form of shirk. 

 

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37 minutes ago, thegreenleaf said:

@Ashvazdanghe Which part of it do you want me to clarify? 

Salam whole of it because whole of Surah is about ruining parayer (Namaz/Salat) by wrong doing & cruelty that describes behavior of enemies of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) even they were acting like other muslim  that I don't see any mentioning to kindness in it but in http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/76:8 that revealed about Ahl Kisa (عليه السلام) that they helped poor & Orphan & captive  while other muslims didn't help these three needy people. 

Quote

A fountain from which the servants of Allah shall drink; they make it to flow a (goodly) flowing forth. (6) They fulfill vows and fear a day the evil of which shall be spreading far and wide. (7) And they give food out of love for Him to the poor and the orphan and the captive: (8) We only feed you for Allah's sake; we desire from you neither reward nor thanks: (9) Surely we fear from our Lord a stern, distressful day. (10) Therefore Allah win guard them from the evil of that day and cause them to meet with ease and happiness; (11) And reward them, because they were patient, with garden and silk, (12) 

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa18013

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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15 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Killing of Prophets & Aimma e Tahireen (عليه السلام)  is a big crime in the eyes of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

ِDid I ever say that it is not?

16 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Means not obeying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & the ones whom He has commanded to obey is kufr

I don't agree that it is kufr. Maybe kufr in the sense of "ingratitude", but not kufr in the sense of disbelief. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said to Imam Ali (AS):
يقتلك أشقی هذه الأمة
i.e. You will be murdered by the most wretched man of this ummah. 
So, even the person who murdered Imam Ali عليه السلام belongs to this ummah: a sinner and a wrongdoer, for sure, but still a Muslim, and part of this ummah.

If you think that not obeying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) constitutes kufr, then all of us would be kafir, because none of us can claim to obey Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the Prophet or the Imams (عليه السلام) %100 of the time.

 

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19 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam whole of it because whole of Surah is about ruining parayer (Namaz/Salat) by wrong doing & cruelty that describes behavior of enemies of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) even they were acting like other muslim  that I don't see any mentioning to kindness in it but in http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/76:8 that revealed about Ahl Kisa (عليه السلام) that they helped poor & Orphan & captive  while other muslims didn't help these three needy people. 

Salam. All I am saying, brother, is that we (as Muslims, and ultimately, as humans) must help those in need. If we pray but refuse to be kind to others, our acts of worship are of no avail. I don't think this should be controversial.

Edited by thegreenleaf

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3 minutes ago, thegreenleaf said:

Salam. All I am saying, brother, is that we (as Muslims, and ultimately, as humans) must help those in need. If we pray but refuse to be kind to others, our acts of worship are of no avail. I don't think this should be controversial.

Absolutely 100 %. This something we lake or not take seriously.

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13 minutes ago, thegreenleaf said:

The Prophet, peace be upon him, said to Imam Ali (AS):
يقتلك أشقی هذه الأمة
i.e. You will be murdered by the most wretched man of this ummah. 
So, even the person who murdered Imam Ali عليه السلام belongs to this ummah: a sinner and a wrongdoer, for sure, but still a Muslim, and part of this ummah.

:bismillah:

فَأَنْذَرْتُكُمْ نَارًا تَلَظَّىٰ 
لَا يَصْلَاهَا إِلَّا الْأَشْقَى
92:14-15

The trait "Shaqi" (most wretched) may he belongs to any ummah, will be thrown into hell as per above verses. And as per 12-106 most of them do not believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but with shirk.

وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللَّهِ إِلَّا وَهُمْ مُشْرِكُونَ
12-106

And God has made it clear that He will not forgive shirk (4:116). 
 

22 minutes ago, thegreenleaf said:

If you think that not obeying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) constitutes kufr, then all of us would be kafir, because none of us can claim to obey Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the Prophet or the Imams (عليه السلام) %100 of the time.

Most of us (the ummah) are kafir & mushrik according to Quran. 

Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe. (36:7) 

 

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On 5/28/2020 at 2:33 PM, islam25 said:

More so I can give reference from Rumi, jami, Shams Tabrezi, Ibne Arabi that they all believe in willayah of Imam Ali as better than most of Shias.

Salam I also have respect for them but now in our era we can't  find people like them & majority of Sufis are born Sufis with few individuals that are joining to them because they can't separate truth from falsehood also they still want keep their attachment   with previous sins like replacing sufi dancing with dancing in night club under an Islamic disguise or say that they don't  want involve in shia-Sunni political problem also majority of current sufi leaders are corrupt person that just show a pious image from themselves but they have no problem with enemies of Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) even some of them are praising these tyrants & justify their actions & sayings by saying that only Allah can judge people but Arif is a person that can truth from falsehood & refrains & repents  from any sin & leaves anything  in world for reaching to truth by disassociating from enemies of Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) that are enemies of Allah too & tries to follow footsteps of Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) so we don't  have born Arif also both Imam Khomeini  (رضي الله عنه) & Ayatollah  Behjat (رضي الله عنه) involved themselves in politics that until now Imam Khomeini  (رضي الله عنه) involment in politics & Shia-Sunni issue is a controversial issue.

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam I also have respect for them but now in our era we can't  find people like them & majority of Sufis are born Sufis with few individuals that are joining to them because they can't separate truth from falsehood also they still want keep their attachment   with previous sins like replacing sufi dancing with dancing in night club under an Islamic disguise or say that they don't  want involve in shia-Sunni political problem also majority of current sufi leaders are corrupt person that just show a pious image from themselves but they have no problem with enemies of Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) even some of them are praising these tyrants & justify their actions & sayings by saying that only Allah can judge people but Arif is a person that can truth from falsehood & refrains & repents  from any sin & leaves anything  in world for reaching to truth by disassociating from enemies of Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) that are enemies of Allah too & tries to follow footsteps of Ahlulbayt  (عليه السلام) so we don't  have born Arif also both Imam Khomeini  (رضي الله عنه) & Ayatollah  Behjat (رضي الله عنه) involved themselves in politics that until now Imam Khomeini  (رضي الله عنه) involment in politics & Shia-Sunni issue is a controversial issue.

What is wrong in politics.What wrong did Imam Khomini if Indulged in politics.Politics and Islam is not two different things but one.

What is wrong of sofis says that can't Judge,it is Allah to judge.It is not necessary that everyone should think as you think.

If some sofis is corrupt and only shows piousness that doesn't make all them wrong.

If shiae Aalim becomes corrupt and does wrong thing ,that doesn't mean shia mazhab is wrong.

Sofism and Irfan is only one central point.That is fear Allah that never commit even minor sin and Love Allah that you sacrifice everything for Him.

 

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16 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

The trait "Shaqi" (most wretched) may he belongs to any ummah, will be thrown into hell as per above verses.

My point is, the Prophet صلی الله عليه وآله وسلم didn't even call the murderer of Imam Ali عليه السلام a disbeliever; even though, he was most certainly a wretched man. 

We should be careful not to call another person a disbeliever. The Prophet صلی الله عليه وآله وسلم says,
ما شهد رجل على رجل بكفر إلا باء بها أحدهما
No man calls another a disbeliever, except that one of them is a disbeliever;
(i.e. if the person being accused is not a disbeliever in the eyes of God, the accuser will be held guilty of disbelief).
So why should one risk one's own faith by condemning and accusing others; when God alone has the right to judge a person's faith?

Hasten to forgiveness from your Lord
and a garden as wide as the heavens and earth,
prepared for the righteous;

Those who give, both in prosperity and adversity,

who restrain their anger and pardon people
- God loves those who do good. 

Those who remember God and implore forgiveness for their sins
when they do something shameful or wrong themselves
- who forgives sins but God? -
and who never knowingly persist in doing wrong.

The reward for such people is forgiveness from their Lord;
and Gardens graced with flowing streams, where they will remain.
How excellent is the reward of those who labour!

[3:133-136]

Edited by thegreenleaf

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16 hours ago, Logic1234 said:


وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللَّهِ إِلَّا وَهُمْ مُشْرِكُونَ
12-106

If you look at the books of tafsir, it is clear that this verse primarily refers to the pagan Arabs. They believed in Allah, but they also believed that He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has partners; i.e. their idols.

16 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe. (36:7) 

Again, it refers to the Meccan polytheists/pagans. You are taking verses that refer to pagans, and applying them to Muslims (which is a wrong and dangerous thing to do).

Edited by thegreenleaf

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8 hours ago, thegreenleaf said:

My point is, the Prophet صلی الله عليه وآله وسلم didn't even call the murderer of Imam Ali عليه السلام a disbeliever; even though, he was most certainly a wretched man

Salam he called murderer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) exactly same as killer of She-camel of Thamud that is definition  of unbeliever if we don't  call murderer of Imam Ali(عليه السلام) as disbeliever then we don't  find anyone as  disbeliever that only Nawasib are whitewashing him & call him as Sahaba too. 

Quote

when the most wretched of them rose up. (12) The apostle of Allah had told them, ‘This is Allah’s she-camel, let her drink!’ (13) But they impugned him and hamstrung her. So their Lord took them unawares by night because of their sin, and levelled it. (14) And He does not fear its outcome. (15)

 

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/91:13

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 5/31/2020 at 3:19 AM, thegreenleaf said:

So why should one risk one's own faith by condemning and accusing others; when God alone has the right to judge a person's faith?

Well we cannot simply close our eyes and pretend like we have never known anything or never seen anything. There are cases before us on which we have to take a position whether the person is a obedient one or a disobedient one.  That's all I wanted to say, if this is a judgement, we all ought to undertake such judgement often anywhere in our lives. 
 

On 5/31/2020 at 3:45 AM, thegreenleaf said:

If you look at the books of tafsir, it is clear that this verse primarily refers to the pagan Arabs. They believed in Allah, but they also believed that He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has partners; i.e. their idols.

I don't limit these types of verses to any specific events or to any specific cultures/nations. This is a general statement and is applicable to all human beings of all ages. 
 

On 5/31/2020 at 3:45 AM, thegreenleaf said:

Again, it refers to the Meccan polytheists/pagans. You are taking verses that refer to pagans, and applying them to Muslims (which is a wrong and dangerous thing to do).

No rather I am applying these verses to humanity as a whole and that includes the so called Muslims as well. 

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38 minutes ago, thegreenleaf said:

@Logic1234 So do you include yourself in the vast majority of mankind (which according to you are kafir/mushrik and will go to hell) or are you somehow one of the chosen few (who will be saved, while everyone else burns in hell)?

:bismillah:

بَلِ الْإِنسَانُ عَلَى نَفْسِهِ بَصِيرَةٌ
75:14

I am a fallible human being. Fighting with myself, trying to force it and teach it to recognize & accept the truth in first place and then following & submitting to that truth.

I find in myself, every bad traits and I am struggling for self purification. Currently, I am witness against myself that I deserve Hell as I have not yet achieved the goal and never worshiped, thanked & praised God as He ought to be worshiped, thanked & praised. The status of my salah is that different sort of thoughts get me while I am standing before Him. I feel this as I have done the shirk.

My only hope in the Mercy of Almighty Lord which has enveloped everything and the love of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) in my heart. I have only recited the salawat with its true & pure intention and nothing else. Perhaps I have too killed the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Imams (عليه السلام), I feel like this whenever my nafs was trying to stop me from doing a bad thing and I crush that inner voice and keep on doing that bad thing. I have not yet accepted, followed & worshiped the truth as it ought to be accepted, followed & worshiped. 

So yes, I find myself "Zalooman Jahoola", kanood, Zaloomun kuffar etc. 

Edited by Logic1234

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@Logic1234 We are all fallible, brother, and in need of God's mercy. Yet, our Lord is Merciful. His mercy is vaster than our sins. The Prophet صلّی الله عليه وآله وسلم says,
الراحمون يرحمهم الرحمن، ارحموا من في الأرض يرحمكم من في السماء
Those who are kind to others, God will be kind to them;
Be kind to those on earth; and He who is in heaven will be kind to you!

Edited by thegreenleaf

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On 5/30/2020 at 4:13 AM, thegreenleaf said:

So woe to those who pray; (4)
But are heedless of their prayer; (5)

 

On 5/30/2020 at 7:28 AM, thegreenleaf said:

If we pray but refuse to be kind to others, our acts of worship are of no avail. I don't think this should be controversial.

Thank you Thegreenleaf for this comment.  Yes it is so important that our worship is not just a front to cover up our hearts.  God's standards are so high that as we strive to achieve them we see that we fall short.  That is where prayer and worship come in.  We come in true acknowledgement of our weakness and recognising that however hard we try we fail to meet God's rule.  So we need to pray.  "O gracious and merciful God forgive me and "expand my breast" to understand you more and recieve your Holy Spirit so that my acts of kindness are acceptable in your sight"

Is this a prayer we can pray together?

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