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In the Name of God بسم الله

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16 hours ago, islam25 said:

I could not clearly understood what you want to convey

But I will summarise what you tried to convey .

1.The jesus is not son of God (in the meaning we consider here)

2.Even his descipling didn't know truly know who jesus is.

3.Jesus can do acts which only God can do.

We have no problem if Jesus can do acts that only Allah can (By will of God).

Not only Jesus other Prophets too have done acts which only God can do.( By will of God).

Every Prophet has unique relationship with Allah and that is not specific to Jesus only.

 

Hey!

I like the way you summarize what someone says.  That's pretty cool!  I'll do the same.

1. Correct, so "Son of God" has different meanings and when given to Jesus, it does not mean a literal son born from a mother or father, but rather him representing all that God is and being a King.  

2. His disciples had a hard time at points understanding who he was.  Others also had a hard time because God in the Bible does not reveal himself as humans thought he should.  He came as a child when many expected an adult and a strong king or ruler.  He came to serve when many thought he would come to overthrow a government.  He spoke in parables but used these to speak about himself.  Sometimes people understood and sometimes not.  But he would do things only the Old Testament God would do and say things that only the Old Testament God would say.  Although his disciples experienced doubts, you see throughout the gospels that they begin understanding God's plan and that the Messiah was God himself fulfilling the O.T. prophecies.  God was revealing to humanity more about who he was.  The disciples did eventually fully understand who Jesus was and what he did.  Sometimes they really seemed like they got it and other times they did not.  There are some breakthrough moments throughout the gospels when certain disciples begin to understand who Jesus is and call him some of the titles that refer to him being God.  They also worship him.

3. Yes, Jesus did acts that only God could do and he used titles and names about himself that were attributed only to the Old Testament God.  This is why the Jews constantly wanted to kill him for blasphemy. 

I certainly believe that God can use a man to do miraculous things, however, in the Bible we see a striking difference between any prophet and Jesus.  The prophets in the Bible sometimes did crazy things through God's power, but they never brought attention to themselves.  They always said something like, "This is what the Lord says, " etc.  Jesus comes and begins talking about things he says and to follow him.  He claims titles for himself that are only for God.  Many of these titles have to do with Old Testament passages and when the Jews hear this they are furious.  It was not very clear to Old Testament Jews that God's being was One, but three persons.  Not three Gods, but one being in three distinct persons.  Those who studied the Old Testament and who were waiting for the Messiah seemed to have understood better.  But many missed this and tripped over "the cornerstone, " which was Jesus himself.  There were hints in the Old Testament to God's plurality within his singleness.  As Christians we only worship one God.  So, when we say we worship Jesus, the Father or Holy Spirit, we are still worshiping Yahweh, not three gods.  

Thanks for your response and God bless you! 

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23 hours ago, layman said:

Love means "having relationship".

The moment a person projects the Light of God (Greatness of God) in his actions...that is the Ultimate Love (Ultimate relationship).

All Prophets projected Light of God in their actions.

If we love the Prophets, our actions resemble the Prophet behaviors.

If we love the worldly things, then our behaviors will show it.

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the final Prophet is called "Habibi illahi aalamin"...because every actions that he took were based on inspirations from Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  His relationship to God is direct...that is the Ultimate of all Love.

I like what you say about love means, "having relationship."  It's true!  I know you may not agree with this and you may have heard this, but as Christians we believe we are created in the image of God (not a physical image) but in other ways such as being able to choose, reason, think, and many other ways.  We believe our desire for relationships comes from the Creator or relationships, God.  He puts Adam and Eve in a relationship and creates marriage and families.  But we believe that we are able to understand relationships because God from eternity past knew about relationships and was in a relationship within himself.  Father, Son and Spirit all together had the most beautiful of relationships ever seen and it was completely fulfilling and loving.  That's why when he creates us in his image we also have a need for relationships and thrive from them, more so when done in love.  

I hope you have a great day!

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On 6/8/2020 at 6:58 PM, notme said:

It is romanticized like that. 

I'm guessing you've never been in the military? 

I haven't been in the military, but whenever a soldier dies for a good reason, especially while protecting others, they are celebrated thoroughly.  For example, a U.S. Marine died from the town I live in and they named a street after him and there are monuments and celebrations to remember him.  I have watched the news as they report of a soldier or soldiers dying and how courageous they were to put their lives at risk.  I have spoken to various people and heard testimonies of people who say they are going to serve their country, even if they must give their lives.  I'm in no way trying to say that people are thrilled to go and die.  I think it's a hard decision that is made in a tough situation, not something that should be planned or like you say, romanticized.  It's more about how people remember them and the reaction that a soldier dying for a good reason gets, as opposed to being wounded.  They get a bigger reaction because they gave their lives.  I'm also not trying to say everything soldiers or the U.S. does is good.  I'm not even speaking about other countries because I don't know how they would react to a soldier dying.  My point is I feel that death for a good or noble cause usually gets a bigger reaction because they gave all they had.  Nothing left to give.

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11 hours ago, tdawg626 said:

I haven't been in the military, but whenever a soldier dies for a good reason, especially while protecting others, they are celebrated thoroughly.

When a soldier dies, it isn't for his country, it is for his friends at best.  Sometimes it is just because he fears the consequences of disobedience more than he fears the enemy. It is far less noble than the propaganda would have you believe, and that probably applies to every military in the world across all of time. Of course the homeland makes him out to be a hero - else how would they justify the deaths of all those innocent young people?

Before romanticizing another military death, you should read War is a Racket, by American WWII hero Smedley Butler. 

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.32000014248506

Edited by notme

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4 hours ago, tdawg626 said:

But we believe that we are able to understand relationships because God from eternity past knew about relationships and was in a relationship within himself.  Father, Son and Spirit all together had the most beautiful of relationships ever seen and it was completely fulfilling and loving.  That's why when he creates us in his image we also have a need for relationships and thrive from them, more so when done in love.  

Hi this part is a great insult to God/Allah or Yahwah or anything that you call it :ranting:this belief just came from pagan belief system that even their greatest God/Idol has limitation which his devoties & worshippers can divide it to multiple entity & give each one of these entities a duty that is from deviations of Poles in Christian  belief system.

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6 hours ago, tdawg626 said:

Hi, 

I learned something new!  Where can I read this debate?

Hi it's very popular  & famous  between all Shia that here you can see some examples of it also if you search about Mubahila or Mubahala in any shia site you can find more examples

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/event-or-eid-al-mubahalah

https://www.al-islam.org/media/eid-ul-mubahila-shaykh-saleem-bhimji

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-the-gracious-abu-muhammad-ordoni/fatima-az-zahra-sa-verse-mubahala

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-2-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/account-mubahila-imprecation-ceremony

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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6 hours ago, tdawg626 said:

For example, a U.S. Marine died from the town I live in and they named a street after him and there are monuments and celebrations to remember him.  I have watched the news as they report of a soldier or soldiers dying and how courageous they were to put their lives at risk.  I have spoken to various people and heard testimonies of people who say they are going to serve their country, even if they must give their lives. 

Hi this is same a Iran but no country reaches to level of American  propaganda about it's military  & soldiers.

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10 hours ago, tdawg626 said:

Hey!

I like the way you summarize what someone says.  That's pretty cool!  I'll do the same.

1. Correct, so "Son of God" has different meanings and when given to Jesus, it does not mean a literal son born from a mother or father, but rather him representing all that God is and being a King.  

2. His disciples had a hard time at points understanding who he was.  Others also had a hard time because God in the Bible does not reveal himself as humans thought he should.  He came as a child when many expected an adult and a strong king or ruler.  He came to serve when many thought he would come to overthrow a government.  He spoke in parables but used these to speak about himself.  Sometimes people understood and sometimes not.  But he would do things only the Old Testament God would do and say things that only the Old Testament God would say.  Although his disciples experienced doubts, you see throughout the gospels that they begin understanding God's plan and that the Messiah was God himself fulfilling the O.T. prophecies.  God was revealing to humanity more about who he was.  The disciples did eventually fully understand who Jesus was and what he did.  Sometimes they really seemed like they got it and other times they did not.  There are some breakthrough moments throughout the gospels when certain disciples begin to understand who Jesus is and call him some of the titles that refer to him being God.  They also worship him.

3. Yes, Jesus did acts that only God could do and he used titles and names about himself that were attributed only to the Old Testament God.  This is why the Jews constantly wanted to kill him for blasphemy. 

I certainly believe that God can use a man to do miraculous things, however, in the Bible we see a striking difference between any prophet and Jesus.  The prophets in the Bible sometimes did crazy things through God's power, but they never brought attention to themselves.  They always said something like, "This is what the Lord says, " etc.  Jesus comes and begins talking about things he says and to follow him.  He claims titles for himself that are only for God.  Many of these titles have to do with Old Testament passages and when the Jews hear this they are furious.  It was not very clear to Old Testament Jews that God's being was One, but three persons.  Not three Gods, but one being in three distinct persons.  Those who studied the Old Testament and who were waiting for the Messiah seemed to have understood better.  But many missed this and tripped over "the cornerstone, " which was Jesus himself.  There were hints in the Old Testament to God's plurality within his singleness.  As Christians we only worship one God.  So, when we say we worship Jesus, the Father or Holy Spirit, we are still worshiping Yahweh, not three gods.  

Thanks for your response and God bless you! 

What you said that other Prophets too did maricles, but they always pointed to higher power (God).

Jesus too did maricles but pointed to himself, and used titles of God.

You said God appeared in three forms but originally is one.

We have different belief that is what ever exists in havens and earth is manifestation of Every Prophet as is from God but differing in ranks.

Not what you said that God appeared in three subjects.

What is your understanding of relationship of all exiting things and God

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12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi this is same a Iran but no country reaches to level of American  propaganda about it's military  & soldiers.

Honestly, I don’t want know if that’s true or not but the last thing I want to do is start defending the military. That’s a whole other subject that usually I don’t even go near. I try not to get into politics too much

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14 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi this part is a great insult to God/Allah or Yahwah or anything that you call it :ranting:this belief just came from pagan belief system that even their greatest God/Idol has limitation which his devoties & worshippers can divide it to multiple entity & give each one of these entities a duty that is from deviations of Poles in Christian  belief system.

Hi,

That this comes from paganism is only an assumption. When you look at the pagan religions it is not as similar as you think. It’s so easy to look at something that appears similar and say, “your beliefs come from that.” Satan is a master at trickery and so you would assume that many religions would appear similar. Despite some apparent similarities the Trinity is not at all the same as these pagan religions, nor does history demonstrate that Christianity was infiltrated in this way. Just like Tawhid is not in the Quran, Trinity is not either. You understand Tawhid because it is there even if the word is not. Christians understand the Trinity in this way. The word is not there but the truth of it is. God is described as being One but in three persons, all described as having the characteristics, power and being of YAHWEH. To Muslims this may be an i silt to Allah, but Christians do not worship Allah, but Yahweh.

God bless you:)

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9 hours ago, tdawg626 said:

” Satan is a master at trickery and so you would assume that many religions would appear similar. Despite some apparent similarities the Trinity is not at all the same as these pagan religions, nor does history demonstrate that Christianity was infiltrated in this way.

Hi if you read history you will find that current Christianity highly affected by Mithraism that was an underground  polytheist movement  against paganism  of Romans also Christians adopted Greek & Egyptian mythology to fill gaps about story of birth & death of Jesus to come up with Jews attacks to their religion also you can find trinity or more in eastern pagan beliefs that adopted by current Christianity also Satan trick is that he is showing Abrahamic religion as separate religion from each other & making illusions  for praying  idols or so called holy objects instead of Yahwah/God/Allah  or anything  that humans ontheir languge  & tongue call the only single one that only he deserves worshiping . 

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On 6/10/2020 at 2:38 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi this is same a Iran but no country reaches to level of American  propaganda about it's military  & soldiers.

I see so much similarly between Iran and the United States, it amazes me that the people of both have allowed the politicians to declare them enemies. 

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On 6/11/2020 at 5:16 AM, tdawg626 said:

Christians do not worship Allah, but Yahweh.

You neither workship the God of jesus nor  Daniel, Ezra, Jeremiah nor Moses nor Abraham and Noah. Jesus worshiped “Allaha” and Daniel, Jeremiah worshiped “Allah” 

you worship a random spirit who dwells in heaven. 

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On 6/11/2020 at 12:28 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi if you read history you will find that current Christianity highly affected by Mithraism that was an underground  polytheist movement  against paganism  of Romans also Christians adopted Greek & Egyptian mythology to fill gaps about story of birth & death of Jesus to come up with Jews attacks to their religion also you can find trinity or more in eastern pagan beliefs that adopted by current Christianity also Satan trick is that he is showing Abrahamic religion as separate religion from each other & making illusions  for praying  idols or so called holy objects instead of Yahwah/God/Allah  or anything  that humans ontheir languge  & tongue call the only single one that only he deserves worshiping . 

Hi, and thanks for your response. I know you're not the only one who has raised this objection to Christianity.    

The sources I have read about this underground movement actually says that Romans had no problem with them so I'm not sure why you think Mithraism was against the Romans.  The Christian faith is radically different from Mithraism so it's for me and any Christian to see the correlation.  When you read the history of the belief you don't even get a sense it's like Christianity.  There are a lot of objections to our faith and anyone can say that any religion or faith had influence on it just because those religions or faith were around during the same time period.  But there is no proof of this.  Jesus was not born on Dec. 25, Mithraism came after Christianity, Mithra sacrifices a bull, not himself, he's born from a rock and not eternal like Jesus.  As far as I know, all other similar claims were not historical or scholarly.  Could you provide good sources that prove otherwise? Mithraism was also secret, Christianity was not.  It was accepted in Rome while Christians were being terrorized and slaughtered for their faith for several hundred years.  While Jesus walked the earth his primary ministry was to his people, the Jews.  Some Jews rejected him all together but some had a hard time because they were indeed used to hearing that "God is one," but had missed the prophecies regarding who the Messiah would be (God himself).  

The Old and New testaments harmonize together and prophecies from the Old were fulfilled in the New.  Jesus' death was written about in the O.T. and so was his coming. He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and did so in many ways, fulfilling many scriptures.  I would like to know what you mean by worshiping idols? Could you explain?  Christians worship the God we find described in the Bible.  Idol worship was condemned throughout Old and New Testaments.  It would be idol worship to worship a man if that was all he was, a mere man.  However, we do not see Jesus portrayed and described as only a man, but as Yahweh.  Despite what people may say about him not being God, the N.T. speaks of him this way.  If try and red the N.T. without any preconceived notions (which understandably is hard to do) and compare Jesus to the Old Testament Kings and prophets, you will find someone who radically stands out among the rest.  Put that together with the many prophecies and you have the ONE God revealing his Son, unique and one and only Son, in a way that shows he is different and divine.  

Just because you can find some similarities between beliefs and religions does not mean that there is a mix.  If I wanted to find similarities between Islam and Hinduism or any other religion, I could very easily and so could you.  But when you look more closely you see that these faiths are radically different.  I agree with you that Satan likes to trick. Satan has always sought to start faiths based on lies and many times he used many similarities and becomes a counterfeit.  He's been around since the creation of the world and, while I don't believe he knows the future, I believe he can manipulate it, maybe try and predict it to a certain degree, and he was in the very presence of God, so he knows how to try and distort his image.  I know the Quran does not always speak in favor of Christians or Jews, nevertheless, it still talks about us and our books in some positive ways and I am still curious as to why there are so many attacks on the Bible, especially that it is corrupted not only by men, but even by terrible religious beliefs that have nothing to do with Christianity.  

Like I mentioned above, Christians were dying horrible and cruel deaths for believing in Jesus in the first few centuries until "Christianity" became the official belief of the empire.  The disciples and those who followed after needed to be certain that what they believed was true and that it really happened or they would not have allowed themselves to be martyred for so many years.  For Jews to change what they believed for more than a thousand years and then to die for those beliefs, there needed to be something there.  I hardly believe so many would risk their beloved cultures, worship, families, etc. to believe in a "god"born from a rock or for some Greek myths.  No, they died because the Love of Jesus as Yahweh himself was so real, so great, so convincing, so powerful and life-changing that they would allow some of the most cruelest forms of execution known to man to happen to them.  They had opportunities to reject Jesus and be free from all this pain and torture.  But for a few hundred years they did not until Constantine changed things.  Why would they do this? Of course I make this appeal to you based on the love of God for them and you, but I also believe there is ample proof throughout history, the Bible and even extra biblical resources.  

May God bless you!

 

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On 6/10/2020 at 9:54 AM, tdawg626 said:

Jesus comes and begins talking about things he says and to follow him.

You are departely trying for fit in the trinity it’s like you are holding on to a very thin weak rope. Jesus saying parables and explaing some of them in no way shows he is God whats the point of saying a parable and not knowing what is the message behind it & not knowing how to explain it. Prophet jesus saying to his disciples and to the believer to follow him in no way shows he is God, jesus was carrying out God’s commands and purpose just like the previous prophets an example is prophet Jeremiah, jeremiah 1:7 “7And the Lord said to me; Say not, "I am a youth," for wherever I send you, you shall go, and whatever I command you, you shall speak.  Another example is prophet Ezekiel, Ezekiel 2:

1And He said to me; "Son of Man, that which you find, eat; eat this scroll and go, speak to the house of Israel."

2So I opened my mouth, and He fed me this scroll.

3And He said to me, "Feed your stomach and fill your bowels with this scroll, which I give you"; so I ate, and in my mouth it was as sweet as honey.

4And He said to me; "Son of Man, go, come to the house of Israel and speak to them with My words.

5For it is not to a people of an unfathomable language and a heavy tongue that you are sent, [but] to the house of Israel.

6Not to many peoples, of deep language and heavy tongue, whose words you do not understand-had I sent you to them, I swear they would hearken to you!

7But the house of Israel will not be willing to hearken to you, because they are not willing to hearken to Me; for all the house of Israel are brazen and of stubborn heart.”

 

John 10:27-39

“27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father(God), WHO HAS GIVEN THEM TO ME, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “elohim (godly people)” ’ ? 35If he called them ‘elohim(godly people)-(Psalms 82:6),’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own [representative] and sent to the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am the son of God’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 

38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is united with me, and I am united with the father.” 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.”

 

In john 10:32 we see that the Jews misunderstood what Jesus had meant by “I and my Father are one.” (John 10:30). And in john 10:33 they accused him of blasphemy. Now, had Jesus been God, or had he and God been one in a literal sense then he wouldn’t have hesitated to clarify the matter at that point. Jesus at that point said, “Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods?” What he was trying to say was that if the Jews called “I and my Father are one” blasphemy then they should call what was written in their law “You are gods” blasphemy too.

The reasoning behind this is “You are elohim” does not mean that you, the Jewish Messengers, are Gods, it is rather an expression. It just means that you are godly people. The same applies to “I and my Father are one.” It does not mean that Jesus is God or that he and God are the same literally. It’s just an expression meaning they are one in purpose.

 

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “elohim (godly people)” ’ ? 35IF HE(God) CALLED THEM ‘elohim(godly people)-(Psalms 82:6),’ TO WHOM THE WORD OF GOD CAME—AND SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE SET ASIDE— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own [representative] and sent to the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am the son of God’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 

In verse 35 jesus crystal clearly points out that Pslams 82:6 is about God’s Messengers (Messengers receive divine scripturelike David,Moses,job,Ezekiel,Enoch,Noah. Prophets of God don’t receive any divine scripture rather they confirm the truth contained within the scripture), then in verse 36,right after, jesus says,”WHAT ABOUT THE ONE WHOM THE FATHER(God) SET APART AS HIS VERY OWN [REPRESENTATIVE] AND SENT IN TO THE WORLD?” Then jesus takes advantage of Psalms 82:6 that he used to refute their false accusation and says, “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am the son of God’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.“ as Pslams 82:6 calls the Messengers of God “sons of the Most Hight(El Elyon)”. In verse 37 jesus makes it clear that he does these good work with not his own authority rather with God’s authority and Jesus tells them to not believe in him if he does these without God’s authority, Jesus was simply carrying out God’s commands and purpose. Which he make clear in the next verse, “38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is united with me, and I am united with the father.”

it is clear as daylight jesus was just a messiah, prophet, Messenger of God. 

 

Another argument that the trinitarians say jesus is God they bring the incident with Philip the disciple,

8Philip said, “Master, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am united with the Father, and that the Father is united me? THE WORDS I SAY TO YOU I DO NOT SPEAK ON MY OWN AUTHORITY. RATHER, IT IS THE FATHER(God)... WHO IS DOING HIS WORK. 11Believe me when I say that I am united with  the Father and the Father is united with me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

 

Jesus was making clear to Philip that it is through him(jesus) God was known and he(jesus) manifested God’s glory by carried out God’s commands and purpose and displaying God’s glory. So Jesus was making it clear that if you have seen God’s glory, which Jesus and other prophets have manifested, then you have seen the Father because it is through them you knew God. All prophets are a manifestation of God’s glory, an example is prophet Jeremiah, Jeremiah 1:5 “When I had not yet formed you in the womb, I knew you, and when you had not yet emerged from the womb, I had appointed you; a prophet to the nations I made you.” Prophet Jeremiah was already in God’s foreknowledge, Jeremiah was part of God’s will and decree and at a certain point of time that decree was decreed thus it become manifest. 

Another example is when prophet Ezekiel raised the dead alive,

Ezekiel 37:4-12

4And He said to me, "Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, 'O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.'

5So says the Lord God to these bones; Behold, I will cause spirit to enter into you, and you shall live!

6And I will lay sinews upon you, and I will make flesh grow over you and cover you with skin and put breath into you, and you will live, and you will then know that I am the Lord."

7So I prophesied as I was commanded, and there arose a noise when I prophesied, and behold a commotion, and the bones came together, bone to its bone!

8And I looked, and lo! sinews were upon them, and flesh came upon them, and skin covered them from above, but there was still no spirit in them.

9Then He said to me, "Prophesy to the spirit, prophesy, O Son of Man, and say to the spirit, 'So says the Lord God: From four sides come, O spirit, and breathe into these slain ones that they may live.' "

10And I prophesied as He had commanded me, and the spirit came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, a very great army, exceedingly so.

11Then He said to me, "Son of Man, these bones are all the house of Israel. Behold they say, 'Our bones have become dried up, our hope is lost, we are clean cut off to ourselves.'

12Therefore, prophesy and say to them, So says the Lord God: Lo! I open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves as My people, and bring you home to the land of Israel

 

Jesus was no different he displayed God’s glory so that they may believe in the one true God and the jesus’ prophethood. 

An example of this is John 11: 

3So the sisters sent word to Jesus, “Master, the one you love is sick.”

4When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s messenger may be glorified through it.” 5Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6So when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days, 7and then he said to his disciples, “Let us go back to Judea.”

8“But RABBI,” they said, “a short while ago the Jews there tried to stone you, and yet you are going back?”

9Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world’s light. 10It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.”

11After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”

12His disciples replied, “Master, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”

16Then Thomas said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”

 

Jesus Comforts the Sisters of Lazarus

17On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18Now Bethany was less than two miles from Jerusalem, 19and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

21“Master,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22BUT I KNOW THAT EVEN NOW GOD WILL GIVE YOU(jesus) WHATEVER YOU ASK.”

23Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the [eternal] life. The one who believes in me will live....26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

27“Yes, Master,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the messanger of God, who is to come into the world.”

28After she had said this, she went back and called her sister Mary aside. “The Teacher is here,” she said, “and is asking for you.” 29When Mary heard this, she got up quickly and went to him. 30Now Jesus had not yet entered the village, but was still at the place where Martha had met him. 31When the Jews who had been with Mary in the house, comforting her, noticed how quickly she got up and went out, they followed her, supposing she was going to the tomb to mourn there.

32When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said, “Master, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.”

33When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. 34“Where have you laid him?” he asked.

“Come and see, Master,” they replied.

35Jesus wept.

36Then the Jews said, “See how he loved him!”

37But some of them said, “Could not he who opened the eyes of the blind man have kept this man from dying?”

Jesus Raises Lazarus From the Dead

38Jesus, once more deeply moved, came to the tomb. It was a cave with a stone laid across the entrance. 39“Take away the stone,” he said.

“But, Master,” said Martha, the sister of the dead man, “by this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days.”

40Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “FATHER(God), I THANK YOU(God) THAT YOU(God) HAVE HEARD ME. 42I KNEW THAT YOU(God) ALWAYS HEAR ME, BUT I SAID THIS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE STANDING HERE, THAT THEY MAY BELIEVE THAT YOU(God) SENT ME.”

43When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”44The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.

Jesus said to them, “Take off the grave clothes and let him go.”

 

Did jesus do miracles by the permission of God ? 

John 11:22

“22BUT I KNOW THAT EVEN NOW GOD WILL GIVE YOU(jesus) WHATEVER YOU ASK.”

yes most definitely. 

why did such miracle take place ?

John 11:4

“...it is for God’s glory so that God’s messenger may be glorified through it.”

John 11:41-42

41So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “FATHER(God), I THANK YOU(God) THAT YOU(God) HAVE HEARD ME(jesus). 42I KNEW THAT YOU(God) ALWAYS HEAR ME(jesus), BUT I SAID THIS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE STANDING HERE, THAT THEY MAY BELIEVE THAT YOU(God) SENT ME(jesus).”

so God’s glory can be displayed that the people know that Jesus is God’s Messenger and revere Jesus. In short Jesus was the manifestation of God’s glory like the previous prophets so the people may believe in God, His message, His messengers and His prophets.

The disciples themselves say God sent jesus with signs and miracles to guide the people back to the truth, just like the previous prophets as I have shown. 

Acts 22:

22“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth WAS A MAN accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”

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On 5/25/2020 at 9:44 AM, tdawg626 said:

We do not believe in Three beings and three persons.  I am one being and only one person.  We believe God to be One being (Yahweh) and three persons of that being, all distinct and with different roles, but yet all completely Yahweh. 

 you are a human that is your being, and in human terminology we refer to another human a “person”. When we are pointing  to another human we says “this person” instead of “this human”.

you are pretty such saying you believe in one what and three who’s.  That can be interpreted as three Gods or Modalism. 

 

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3 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

 you are a human that is your being, and in human terminology we refer to another human a “person”. When we are pointing  to another human we says “this person” instead of “this human”.

you are pretty such saying you believe in one what and three who’s.  That can be interpreted as three Gods or Modalism. 

 

I am a person who has being.  You are a person who has being.  God is three persons who have one being.  

 

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14 minutes ago, tdawg626 said:

I am a person who has being.  You are a person who has being.  God is three persons who have one being.  

 

Nabeel Qureshi is a very stupid man who takes so many words out context and it’s meaning and misquote verses deliberately and has been refuted over and over by rabbis on his misquoting of the OT.

and arrogantly denies ghadir khumm although is 100% authentic from Sunni and Shi’a. I’ve refuted many of his clever Arguments. 

You are human who has a soul this defines your being. Comparing God to his creation is blasphemy. God is transcendent. Plus our bodies are vehicles when we die out spirit leaves our body. 

You are falling into the trap of Modalism. 

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On 5/25/2020 at 9:44 AM, tdawg626 said:

even if some don't believe Son of Man and Son of God refer to divinity titles) he forgives sins, talks about his own authority,

Biggest lie right here, jesus so many times says he does not do things by his own authority(I.e follows his own inclinations) rather it’s naught but a revelation. 

You have been constantly being inconsistent, accuse me of misterperting when your the one that’s misinterpreting, accuse me of taking incidents out of context when you are the one taking incidents out of context and you also take idioms and metaphors out of context and make baseless claims. I quote other verses as basis for my arguments and are rational. You on other hand make irrational and illogical claims that can’t even be called “logical fallacies” coz they ain’t logical. 

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On 6/14/2020 at 6:18 AM, THREE1THREE said:

so God’s glory can be displayed that the people know

What is this "glory" stuff?

Are you refering to that Greco-pagan transfiguration story?  So it was the same as their Zeus mythology?

All ya gotta do is look at Creation.

As far as the "follow" stuff, it is follow-his-teaching. Not his person.

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Just now, hasanhh said:

What is this "glory" stuff?

 

Miracles that’s also God’s glory being displayed. 

 

1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

As far as the "follow" stuff, it is follow-his-teaching. Not his person.

I was making that clear hence why I gave also examples. Tdawg has been making so many baseless claims. 

I will be collecting them and covering them all. 

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On 6/10/2020 at 8:15 PM, islam25 said:

Jesus too did maricles but pointed to himself,

You no very well they didn’t. The incident of Lazaros which I covered makes it clear that Lazaros being dead was part of God’s purpose so God’s glory can be displayed and also so they may know that God had sent him(Jesus). Jesus makes it clear he is a messenger of God and thanks God aswell and Martha says God would give jesus whatever he asks. 

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4 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

Miracles that’s also God’s glory being displayed. 

 

4 hours ago, THREE1THREE said:

’s glory can be displayed

l need to preface this comment. l have a particular dislike of the words 'miracle' and 'glory.'  'Miracles' because they do not happen and goes with magic; and 'glory' because in the West this is the Greco-Pagan Zeus-in-an illuminated-cloud mythology. That writ, the Command is with Allah -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). in all things, which He -(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). does not share with any created entity; Ayat 18:26. For anything unusual, outside normal expectations as with raising the dead, we find in Ayats 9:31-32 that is with Allah-(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). for the purpose revealed in Ayat 9:33.

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13 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l have a particular dislike of the words 'miracle' and 'glory.' 

Ahhh I see, but when these words are used it’s not used in that sense. We can see that many times in then OT and the the incident with Lazaros we can see they are performing signs with the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

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1 minute ago, THREE1THREE said:

Ahhh I see, but when these words are used it’s not used in that sense.

Even so, l have seen/heard people heathenize/paganize a lot of things. Avoiding expressions or words that encourge this l think is better.

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1 minute ago, hasanhh said:

Even so, l have seen/heard people heathenize/paganize a lot of things. Avoiding expressions or words that encourge this l think is better.

Hmmm it depends on the context when these words are used. Obviously their will be jahils like the ones we’re dealing with right now that will try to take things out of context. These terms have been used many times in translations and lectures so it hasn’t really been an issue. 

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