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In the Name of God بسم الله
Nathan

Was Jesus a Liar or a Madman?

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Greetings! I would like to open up this topic to discuss the person of Jesus. In the Bible, Jesus clearly says that He is the Son of God. C.S. Lewis is one of my favorite authors and this quote from him is very thought provoking. Here it is: “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.” I would love to hear your thoughts and also your perspectives on Jesus according to the Qu'ran. Thank you!

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Hi there is a hot debate between Christians and Muslims in following thread about Jesus also I think brother @GD41586 can help you because a new revert from Christianity that his origin country is near to your country too.

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On 5/19/2020 at 3:32 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Hi there is a hot debate between Christians and Muslims in following thread about Jesus also I think brother @GD41586 can help you because a new revert from Christianity that his origin country is near to your country too.

Thanks for the tip, Ashvazdanghe!

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We hold the belief that Jesus came to bring back the lost sheep of Israel back to the true worship of God and make the truth and falsehood clear and he was the walking Gospel and was a sign to mankind since he manifested God’s decree. Jesus also came to revive the spirit of the law and remove some of the burden that was prescribed to the children of Israel and was a role model to mankind, we believe that Jesus was saved from the crucifixion and that he did not die your sins. We also believe jesus will return and guide his people back to the true path.

we believe jesus also had a successor and we hold the belief that it is Simon Peter.

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4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

We hold the belief that Jesus came to bring back the lost sheep of Israel back to the true worship of God and make the truth and falsehood clear and he was the walking Gospel and was a sign to mankind since he manifested God’s decree. Jesus also came to revive the spirit of the law and remove some of the burden that was prescribed to the children of Israel and was a role model to mankind, we believe that Jesus was saved from the crucifixion and that he did not die your sins. We also believe jesus will return and guide his people back to the true path.

we believe jesus also had a successor and we hold the belief that it is Simon Peter.

Thanks for your reply Guest Guest! So I can understand what you're saying and I assume that these are teachings in the Qu'ran but this doesn't match up with the New Testament of the Bible. Are the passages that refer to Jesus being the Son of God or Jesus' death and resurrection considered by Muslims to be sections of the Bible that have been changed?

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14 hours ago, Nathan said:

Greetings! I would like to open up this topic to discuss the person of Jesus. In the Bible, Jesus clearly says that He is the Son of God.

at old times, the title "son of god" was given to the righteous person of the family, by the followers, Not by god. your books are corrupted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

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15 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

According to us he was certainly not a madman or a liar, god forbid. He was a prophet of god (please refer to the chapter 'Mary' , known as surah maryam, of the holy quran).

We do not believe he was the son of god or that god has a son at all. We don't believe he was crucified either. We believe he will return on earth before the day of judgment. 

Thank you Mahdavist for helping me to know what you believe. There is one thing that I don't understand though. If Jesus is not God, and He wasn't crucified, then how could He return on earth before the day of judgement? If Jesus is only human, how could He live for thousands of years?

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16 hours ago, notme said:

Adam (عليه السلام), David (عليه السلام), and Elijah (عليه السلام) are all referred to as "son of God" also.

The New Testament was written many years after Jesus (عليه السلام) left the Earth and by people who represented The Church. Books which did not fit Official Church Doctrines were systematically destroyed. Who knows what Jesus actually said and what was exaggerated or fabricated? 

Thanks notme for your perspective. The people who were inspired by God to write the books of the New Testament were all alive during the time of Jesus. The "Official Church Doctrines" weren't decided for several hundred years after the New Testament was written. The New Testament and in fact the entire Bible is incredibly accurate especially being written over a period of thousands of years. I believe that the Bible is without error in its original writing but as people were responsible for making handwritten copies in order to preserve it, there may have been a word here and there that was written poorly so it was misunderstood. But I think that the only reason you believe that the Bible has been 'exaggerated or fabricated' is that you have been taught this. I learned yesterday that Muslims believe that God sent the Tawrat, the Zabur and the Injeel but that they were changed but then once God sent the Qu'ran, it wasn't changed. This doesn't seem practical or realistic. The only person who received the Qu'ran was Muhammad. The resurrection of Christ was witnessed by Jesus' disciples and more than five hundred men (1 Corinthians 15:3-8). I hope you can understand my reasons for doubt in the the logic of Islam. My goal here is not to win an argument but to simply bring a different perspective and to cause Muslims to think about what they believe. 

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On 5/19/2020 at 4:57 PM, Nathan said:

I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say.

As Muslims, we don't hold that Jesus was merely a great teacher. In Islam, Jesus is one of the greatest messengers of God. The Quran calls him "a word from God". We just don't accept that he was divine. Only God is divine. God is beyond form. Jesus had a body. The term "son of God" is used in the Bible metaphorically. Adam is also called "son of God" in the Bible. In Islam, we don't call anyone "son of God" because this term easily lends itself to misunderstanding. The Jesus, in the Gospels, doesn't walk around asking people to worship him. Instead, he called people to worship and love God. He himself prayed to God. In Mark 10:18, a man called Jesus "good master". Jesus replied, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." 

Edited by thegreenleaf

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Re: "the Son of God" discussion, reminds me of this important part of the book of Exodus:

Yahweh said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what Yahweh says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’” (Exodus 4:21-23)

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19 hours ago, Nathan said:

Thanks for your reply Guest Guest! So I can understand what you're saying and I assume that these are teachings in the Qu'ran but this doesn't match up with the New Testament of the Bible. Are the passages that refer to Jesus being the Son of God or Jesus' death and resurrection considered by Muslims to be sections of the Bible that have been changed?

Some passages in the gospel that include the term son of God attributed to jesus is an alteration by Paul and as for Jesus being saved from the crucifixion, it can be shown from the gospel how he was used saved, the Pslams has many passages regarding jesus being saved and give us an insight on some of the scenes that are not mentioned in the gospel rather you have to refer back to the Pslams. As for jesus dying and being resurrected on the third or the third day is added Paul. But we hold the believe that Jesus did go up to the heavens on the third day. 

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2 hours ago, Nathan said:

Thanks notme for your perspective. The people who were inspired by God to write the books of the New Testament were all alive during the time of Jesus. The "Official Church Doctrines" weren't decided for several hundred years after the New Testament was written. The New Testament and in fact the entire Bible is incredibly accurate especially being written over a period of thousands of years. I believe that the Bible is without error in its original writing but as people were responsible for making handwritten copies in order to preserve it, there may have been a word here and there that was written poorly so it was misunderstood. But I think that the only reason you believe that the Bible has been 'exaggerated or fabricated' is that you have been taught this. I learned yesterday that Muslims believe that God sent the Tawrat, the Zabur and the Injeel but that they were changed but then once God sent the Qu'ran, it wasn't changed. This doesn't seem practical or realistic. The only person who received the Qu'ran was Muhammad. The resurrection of Christ was witnessed by Jesus' disciples and more than five hundred men (1 Corinthians 15:3-8). I hope you can understand my reasons for doubt in the the logic of Islam. My goal here is not to win an argument but to simply bring a different perspective and to cause Muslims to think about what they believe. 

The two reasons that lead me to believe that Quran is indeed unchanged is that the oldest version of it which was was written by a contemporary of the prophet is the same as the one we have today. It was written about 20 years after his death (if my memory is correct) which would have made me wonder if a word or two has been changed if it wasn't for the second reason: There are millions of people who have committed the Quran to memory, a significant percentage of which having accomplished this as youth. It's a big deal but not that big of a deal. So in those 20 years we had hoards of memorisers to depend on. Plus whether it's true or not, we believed that the Bible was tampered with since the beginning of Islam, so we've been extra extra careful since day one

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21 hours ago, Nathan said:

Are the passages that refer to Jesus being the Son of God or Jesus' death and resurrection considered by Muslims to be sections of the Bible that have been changed?

The term “son of God” in the gospel has been added by Paul and also the belief that Jesus died and was resurrected is also Paul’s teaching that was added. The gospel shows how jesus was saved but not fully you have to go to the Psalms that are about Jesus to see some the scenes that it tells that is not mentioned in the gospel. Pauline epistles are older then the 4 gospels so it is obvious that they have Pauline influence stuff in them in order to see the true message in the gospel in my opinion you have to reconstruct the gospel by combining all the truth that is contained within the four gospels and put in them chronological order for it to be reliable. 

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6 hours ago, Nathan said:

If Jesus is only human, how could He live for thousands of years?

Prophet Noah preached for hundreds of years many other prophets lived for very long and also prophet Elijah is still alive in Heaven ever since he got lifted up to the heavens. Like wise it is possible for jesus. And also prophet Moses was just a human yet he performing miracles... if that’s is possible then so is being alive for long time. Many prophets had miracles. 

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6 hours ago, Nathan said:

Thank you Mahdavist for helping me to know what you believe. There is one thing that I don't understand though. If Jesus is not God, and He wasn't crucified, then how could He return on earth before the day of judgement? If Jesus is only human, how could He live for thousands of years?

Most welcome. We believe he was raised up to heaven (perhaps similar to the belief of Ascension, with the difference that we don't think he was killed?) and will return in the last few days on earth. 

As Shiite muslims we have a similar belief about the Mahdi (the messiah), although sunni muslims believe he is not yet born. Either way we agree on the belief that Jesus and the Mahdi will return in the end of times. 

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12 hours ago, Nathan said:

The resurrection of Christ was witnessed by Jesus' disciples and more than five hundred men (1 Corinthians 15:3-8).

Corinthian is a book by self-claimed apostle called deceiver Paul. His testimony is not valid .

Edited by Arminmo

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12 hours ago, Nathan said:

The people who were inspired by God to write the books of the New Testament were all alive during the time of Jesus.

All of your books were written by “unknown” writers that Never Met any apostle . And adopted Paul’s doctrine.

5EAD4AD1-7706-4A58-9A55-A4CA1C425566.jpeg

Edited by Arminmo

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12 hours ago, Nathan said:

If Jesus is only human, how could He live for thousands of years?

If Elijah is human, how is he still alive ?! Hmm..!!

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8 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

Please adjust your tone, brother

There are modes observing peoples posts, no need for your lecturing people .

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3 hours ago, Arminmo said:

There are modes observing peoples posts, no need for your lecturing people .

How you say it is just as important as what you're saying. If you present your ideas in a gentle, kind, and warm tone, they will hear you out. If you come in with a tone as harsh as that, you'll likely get dismissed. Forgive me if I come off as lecturing, I just hate to see valuable insights get dismissed because they weren't packaged properly

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On 5/20/2020 at 9:35 PM, Arminmo said:

If Elijah is human, how is he still alive ?! Hmm..!!

 

On 5/20/2020 at 3:23 PM, Guest Guest said:

Prophet Noah preached for hundreds of years many other prophets lived for very long and also prophet Elijah is still alive in Heaven ever since he got lifted up to the heavens. Like wise it is possible for jesus. And also prophet Moses was just a human yet he performing miracles... if that’s is possible then so is being alive for long time. Many prophets had miracles. 

Hey Arminmo and Guest Guest,

People like Noah lived for hundreds of years because in the beginning, people simply had longer lives. You are right that Enoch and Elijah were both taken up into heaven without having died on earth so I can see your point. I've honestly not ever considered the idea of Jesus being 'caught up into heaven' like Elijah so I can see how Muslims believe this. However, Christ's dying on the cross and being resurrected is absolutely essential if there is any hope for anyone to be with God forever. I understand that Muslims believe that the blessing of going to heaven is for those who have done more good things than bad, is this not right? I disagree with this idea for a few reasons.

First of all, Jesus taught that it is not only our actions that we are judged for but the motives behind those actions, our thoughts. So even if you are able to obey every law of God or the entire Qu'ran, (which is impossible since we are all sinners), none of us could possibly have 100% pure motives or pure thoughts. Though we may be able to control our words or actions, there is anger and greed and selfishness and lust in our hearts.

Second of all, no Muslim could ever possibly know whether or not you're going to get into heaven. This must cause a lot of anxiety and stress! I do not believe that a just God would allow His followers to live in uncertainty their whole lives.

And finally, because God is holy and just and pure and perfect, not one person on this earth is worthy of being with Him for even a second, let alone eternity. So how does a physical death automatically make it ok for us to be in His presence? It is only because God sent Jesus to live a perfect life (the only person who could ever do so because Jesus is 100% human, 100% God), then die on the cross not for His sins but for our sins, and then raise from the dead conquering sin and death and making it possible for everyone who believes in the sufficiency of His death and resurrection to be able to be with God forever. Isaiah 53:4-5 "Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace and with his wounds we are healed."

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3 hours ago, Nathan said:

First of all, Jesus taught that it is not only our actions that we are judged for but the motives behind those actions, our thoughts. So even if you are able to obey every law of God or the entire Qu'ran, (which is impossible since we are all sinners), none of us could possibly have 100% pure motives or pure thoughts. Though we may be able to control our words or actions, there is anger and greed and selfishness and lust in our hearts.

We accept this reality as well. There is a narration that states "Actions are judged by intentions". 

3 hours ago, Nathan said:

Second of all, no Muslim could ever possibly know whether or not you're going to get into heaven. This must cause a lot of anxiety and stress! I do not believe that a just God would allow His followers to live in uncertainty their whole lives.

We consider this to be a good thing. “Hakim Luqmān ((رضي الله عنه)) advised his son in his will. ‘If your deeds equal the good deeds of all men and Jinns, together, you must expect that you may yet be punished by Him. And you must hope in Allah so much that even if you carry the burden of the total sins of men and jinns, and approach Allah for forgiveness, He will pardon you.' It's this fear that keeps a pious man humble and in check, and this hope that keeps him truckin. We believe that hope and fear are the two wings of a believer.

Could you tell me how Christians approach the matter of fearing God? Sorry to butt in when you didn't address me, but I am curious

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7 hours ago, Nathan said:

(the only person who could ever do so because Jesus is 100% human, 100% God)

 So God is limited and unlimited at the same time???, haven’t you read Exodus 20:4 God has no likeness to anything on earth or the heavens, certainly God does not change Malachi 3:6 and definitely God is definitely not a man nor the son of man Numbers 23:19, and their is no one like God Isaiah 40:25,45:6,46:5,46:9 and certainly God is omnipresent 2 chronicles 6:18, 2 chronicles 2:6, and has no abode. Jesus explicitly denies being God in Mark 10:17-18 and in John 10:27-39 read Pslams 82:6 that’s what jesus is quoting to refute their claim that Jesus claimed to be God, certainty Jesus denied being the literal son of God, Luke 4:41 read verse 43 the context is clear. 

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@Nathan

the Christian bible terribly misinterpretes Isaiah 53 and also Isaiah 53 is about prophet Jeremiah their is a whole article on it. 

Jesus was saved the same way Elijah was saved and was lifted to heaven Jesus makes it clear in the gospel of Mathew that he will go through exactly what prophet Elijah went through. 

 

10The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

11Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”

Verse 13 was added by the Paulines it was a clever twist. Jesus makes clear what elijah’s mission was at his time and tells the disciples that he already came  but they did not recognise him did many things to him, hence why God saved him, like wise the same will happen to Jesus. 

when Jesus came to his people they did not recognise him, 

John 1:11-13 “11He went to his own people, and his own people did not accept him. 12But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to be servants of Allaha 13They are reborn—not because of natural decent nor of the desire or will of mankind, but reborn for Allaha.”

the Jews tried to give many accusations to the point that they gave a false accusation that he claimed to be God read John 10:27-39 and Jesus refutes them with scripture plus logic. They did this in hopes to crucify him. 

The way jesus was saved can be explained through the gospel aswell. 

And certainly Jesus did not die for your sins thats a Pauline teaching, read Ezekiel 18:18-21 and Mathew 5:17-20 and also James 2:14. 

Galatians 2:16 “16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.”

Romans 3:28 “28For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.”

Romans 7:1-4 “1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ,”

Over here Paul gave a parable which is clearly implying that the law as been abolished through Christ’s crucifixion thus a person no longer needs to observe the law.

Ephesians 2:14-15 “14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations.”

Paul obviously is implying that God’s Law brings hostility when obviously that is not the case otherwise God will be unjust and evil, that is blasphemy. Since Paul believes God’s Law brings hostility he go’s on by saying the law is pretty much abolished through Christ flesh(implying through his crucifixion).

Galatians 5:18 “18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”

Galatians 5:4 “4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

Galatians 3:13 “13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us”

Again Paul is blaspheming God by saying His laws are a curse, God does not burden his servant nor does He put His servants  in a burden, Paul is pretty much implying that through Jesus’ crucifixion the Law was abolished. 

Galatians 3:24-25 “24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.”

Hosea 6:6, “6For I desire mercy, not sacrifice” It is clear that God didn’t send anyone to sacrifice as Hosea 6:6 clearly states God desires mercy not sacrifice, that means sacrifices have been abolish long ago by prophet Hosea, and Jesus came to fulfil it as Mathew 5:17 clearly shows.

Further more the Tanakh makes it clear God’s Law is simple and brings ease not what Paul tries to betray the law as a curse,  Psalms 19:8 

“8The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of the Lord is faithful, making the simple one wise.”

It is clear that Paul is trying hard to deceive people but the only thing he is doing is exposing himself by blaspheming God by saying his Law is a curse.

James 2:8-11 “8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”  you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.”

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5 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

Could you tell me how Christians approach the matter of fearing God? Sorry to butt in when you didn't address me, but I am curious

I'm butting in now!!!

Just a quick comment on your question.

Christians see themselves as accepted and fogiven by the Loving God through the perfect actions of Jesus.  Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

So it is not

5 hours ago, guest 2025 said:

It's this fear that keeps a pious man humble and in check, and this hope that keeps him truckin

Those "In Christ Jesus" live humble and pious lives from a grateful and thankful heart and empowered by the Holy Spirit of God living in and through them.  Yes there is fear - a reverent fear recognising Gods greatness and awesomeness when we come to worship and serve him.  And there is hope of eternal life in God's presence, this hope is not an uncertain hope but an asurance relying on the promise of God who never lies and always keeps his word.

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1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

So God is limited and unlimited at the same time???, haven’t you read Exodus 20:4 God has no likeness to anything on earth or the heavens,

Hey yes you are right.  There is no likeness to God - he is entirely unique, beyond our understanding.  God can be both limited and unlimited at the same time because he is not a creature like you and me.  God in Trinity is one God who in Christ chose to humble himself and become limited, while at the same time in his unlimited power and majesty kept the universe existing by the word of his power.

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1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Jesus explicitly denies being God in Mark 10:17-18

Just a quick comment on this verse. 

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

This verse could equally be interpreted to say "You called me good and that I am so you must be acknowledging me as God"

It is in no way an explicit denial of Christ's deity.  Jesus is just making a statement about God being good and warning the man to be careful about the words he is using.

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On 5/20/2020 at 8:48 AM, thegreenleaf said:

The term "son of God" is used in the Bible metaphorically. Adam is also called "son of God" in the Bible.

Going back to the "Son of God" discussion.

Yes, "Son of God" is used metaphorically in the Bible.  That's why when it is used of Jesus it has no sexual or reproductional connotations.  God forbid that God should have sex with Mary and produce a son - what a blasphemy!!!!  Does anyone think that Christians would insult God that much by believing such heresy - I hope not!!!

Anyway back to "Son of God".  It is interesting that the accounts of Jesus' life and ministry show that he very rarely used the term "Son of God" to self-identify himself.  His preferred term was "Son of Man".  Now this is another metaphorical term and in this context doesn't mean - I'm a human. It has strong links to a prophesy in the book of the prophet Daniel Chapter 7

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

This picture that Daniel saw shows that the "One like a Son of Man" is worshiped by all and has an eternal kingdom.  Obviously only the One Eternal All Powerful Creator of the universe has the right to be worshiped and can have an eternal reign.  So when Jesus uses the term "Son of Man" to self-identify he is refering to this incident which the Jews at that time would have been familiar with and so understood his claim.

Note how the Jewish leaders reacted when he refered to this vision: See Matthew chapter 26

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?”

“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

I think Jesus Calling himself "Son of Man" is a greater claim to deity than the term "Son of God", because at the time of Jesus the term "Son of God" wasn't so much as a claim to divinity but a political claim to power and authority used by non-Jewish pagans and by revolutionaries looking for a political and military deliverer.

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54 minutes ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

This verse could equally be interpreted to say "You called me good and that I am so you must be acknowledging me as God"

If we can freely make clear verses ambiguous and give to them any meaning we would like then we can technically argue for really anything; monotheistic belief, belief in the trinity, binatarian belief, polytheism, etc.

The many verses which refer to angels being sons of God, righteous individuals being sons of God, etc; we can always add our own interpretation as you did and explain it to be so. That is why you see so many deviant and unorthodox beliefs even in regards to trinitarians.

For example the idea of homosexuality introduced by the Presbyterian church as something which is permissible under marriage, such an idea is explained to be permissible, because the like the dietary laws have changed from the Old to the New Testament; likewise laws pertaining to sexuality and marriage.

You can literally argue for almost anything from scripture, whereas in the Quran it is very explicit in which verses are clear and which are ambiguous. Matters pertaining to creed are very clear, whereas in Christianity everything seems to be up for interpretation depending on the worldview being defended.   

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3 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

Just a quick comment on this verse. 

18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

This verse could equally be interpreted to say "You called me good and that I am so you must be acknowledging me as God"

It is in no way an explicit denial of Christ's deity.  Jesus is just making a statement about God being good and warning the man to be careful about the words he is using.

Jesus doesn’t always ask straightforward questions, testing and challenging those he’s communicating with other. It’s reminds me of God in the garden of Eden. He asks Adam in Genesis 3:9, “where are you?” He obviously knew where Adam was but the question was more for Adam.

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On 5/19/2020 at 6:57 PM, Nathan said:

Greetings! I would like to open up this topic to discuss the person of Jesus. In the Bible, Jesus clearly says that He is the Son of God. C.S. Lewis is one of my favorite authors and this quote from him is very thought provoking. Here it is: “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.” I would love to hear your thoughts and also your perspectives on Jesus according to the Qu'ran. Thank you!

Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) was a great prophet like all these before him and after him, Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). They weren’t children of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), as Christians believe. Saying that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has a family is blasphemous because it takes away from the idea that he is one and only. Otherwise people can start worshipping his children instead of Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), as modern Christians do. It’s an influence of Greek Hellenistic thought. Besides, Christian dogma formed over hundreds of years, Councils ruled what’s orthodoxy and what’s not, and there’s tens of thousands of Christian Churches with very differing beliefs and understandings of things, competing with each other, in the past even violently. Many early Christians didn’t hold the same beliefs as modern one’s. The concept of Isa (عليه السلام) being the Son of God is more than likely a later invention, for early Christians were Jews who followed Jesus’ as a teacher, not a God or any variation of therefore. For the first 400 years, there were thousands of different Christian groups. 

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3 hours ago, Dave follower of The Way said:

I think Jesus Calling himself "Son of Man" is a greater claim to deity than the term "Son of God"

Numbers 23:19

“God is not a man, that He should lie,

Nor a son of man, that He should repent;

Has He said, and will He not do it?

Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

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