Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
YaAli223

Opinion on cursing some of the sahaba

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

Who Compiled the Book that you are quoting from?

I quoted the Holy Quran, which is the unalterable word of Allah, the Creator of the universe.

Edited by thegreenleaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
31 minutes ago, thegreenleaf said:

I quoted the Holy Quran, which is the unalterable word of Allah, the Creator of the universe.

Who Compiled it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

Who Compiled it? 

anzalna.jpg.60a1c9f221b2875be35008322c75604c.jpg

We have sent down the Quran Ourself, and We Ourself will guard it. [15:9]

 

1651165220_latatihi.png.209d664d08f158c366fa33b20172a8ef.png

Falsehood cannot approach it from before it or from behind it, a Revelation sent down from the Wise One, Worthy of All Praise. [41:42]

If, as a Muslim, you don't believe that the Quran is the unaltered and unalterable word of God, I don't know what else to say. If you do believe so, I don't see the point of your question.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
42 minutes ago, thegreenleaf said:

f, as a Muslim, you don't believe that the Quran is the unaltered and unalterable word of God, I don't know what else to say. If you do believe so, I don't see the point of your question.  

Go back t my first post to you. My point was, We can't just move on - You quoted 2:134 . According to some Muslims these "Sahaba" Compiled the Qur'an, Most of the Hadith and History in Sahah Bukhari and Sahah Muslim and other major books of Sunni Muslims is from few revered individual(s).  

Quranist who deny all hadith due to alleged reliability on whatever basis, should really tackle this issue of Who complied the Qura'n. The same people who narrated the hadiths according to Sunni's. They are really stuck here. 

https://www.al-islam.org/the-collection-and-preservation-of-the-quran-extract-ayatullah-adul-qasim-al-khui/traditions-about-0

Quote

The Contradictions

These reports are self‑contradictory on many points, making them totally unreliable. Here, in the form of questions and answers, we examine the contradictions.

When was the Qur'an compiled as a book?

The second report says it was compiled during the rule of Uthman. The first, third, fourth and some of the later reports explain that it was in the era of Abu Bakr. And the seventh and twelfth report indicate that it was during Umar's caliphate.

Who undertook to compile the Qur'an during the era of Abu Bakr?

https://www.al-islam.org/the-collection-and-preservation-of-the-quran-extract-ayatullah-adul-qasim-al-khui/contradictions

------------

People who were present, whom some call Sahaba/companion (not sure where this word came from) - these people should have been called believers or Muslims who accepted Islam and were in the Ummah.

This word Sahaba/Companion may have been invested to counter a group called Ahlul Bayth(عليه السلام) , Also the word seems to give and impression that they were of equal footing to their Master( Mawla). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

Quranist who deny all hadith due to alleged reliability on whatever basis, should really tackle this issue of Who complied the Qura'n. The same people who narrated the hadiths according to Sunni's. They are really stuck here. 

I'm not a "Quranist"; but the Quran is not on equal footing with any other book. It is the Word of God. God Himself protects it against alteration. This is an essential belief in Islam. Hadiths can be reliable as a secondary source, but they must be rejected if they contradict the Quran.   

Edited by thegreenleaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Guest Pscholgical Warfare said:

In an academic/intellectual/rational/logical Discussion following question would have been asked to get clarification before Opportunist Agents introduce their own agenda (Now where in the post it mentioned " Public Cursing" )

OP 

1) What is your definition of a Sahaba?

2) Where did this definition come from - the Source ( Is it the Book of Allah(عزّ وجلّ) or Sunnah? 

3) What is your understanding of a Curse? Is it the profane/derogatory Word/Language ? 

4) Who was involved in Saqifa, Battle of Jamal, Battle of Siffin and Karbala. Where these outsiders ? That they oppressed, killed each other? 

5) There were 100,000 Plus people at the Last Hajj. 

6) Most Muslims can't even name more than few people who were present during the First 23 years of Islam. 

7) Generalizing an issue is not appropriate. If you have a question regarding handful of people and what is the opinion based on Historical Events. Is a proper way to go about learning different opinions. 

I like the raised relevant points. I also await if you would make your member profile so that i can mention "likes" for it.  wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

People who were present, whom some call Sahaba/companion (not sure where this word came from) - these people should have been called believers or Muslims who accepted Islam and were in the Ummah.

This word Sahaba/Companion may have been invested to counter a group called Ahlul Bayth(عليه السلام) , Also the word seems to give and impression that they were of equal footing to their Master( Mawla). 

The companions are not equal in rank to the Ahl labayt (عليه السلام) in any manner and there is no comparison of the nation of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to the purified progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) .    :grin: :thankyou:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

Other than starting this controversial thread, the OP has not engaged in the discussion. 

^ This is the reason the topic is still open.

I believe the topic is very clear according to Shi'a Twelver beliefs. We have so many Qur'anic verses and Ahadith that undeniably proves our belief in Tabarrah. The only query, if any, should be private or public dissociation and that is just common sense. The only reason this topic is stretched so much because this guy wants to force his belief on others. 

10 hours ago, Guest Quran and Itrah said:

May Allah reward the team for their good judgement in wanting to wait for the verdict of our ulema. As you know, they take time in responding.

I will post the reply as soon as i get it, insha Allah.

No mujtahid is going to tell you 'yes, please curse non-stop in face of sunnis'. I don't know why you need approval for wajib & straightforward Ibadat. 

As much as you want this kind of topic should not be discussed, you only have stretched it far down here. Irony. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

People who were present, whom some call Sahaba/companion (not sure where this word came from) - these people should have been called believers or Muslims who accepted Islam and were in the Ummah.

This word Sahaba/Companion may have been invested

Allah refers to Muhammad as "your companion" in 53:2. So the word itself definitely exists. If he's their companion then they're his companions.

Edited by Jaane Rabb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has cursed so many times in Holy Qur'an.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the Lord of all souls. He has the right to do as He wishes with His creatures. We are not God. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, thegreenleaf said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the Lord of all souls. He has the right to do as He wishes with His creatures. We are not God. 

Yes. He curses different groups. The Prophets and Imams (peace be upon them all) has also cursed and commanded us to do the same. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Yes. He curses different groups. The Prophets and Imams (peace be upon them all) has also cursed and commanded us to do the same. 

The curse is a general term but it means to send Lanah on enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his purified family. This is necessary to disassociate ourselves  from enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his purified progeny (عليه السلام). 

This lanah should be sent as described in sayings of imams like mentioned in Ziarate Ashura and other duas of Imams. This should not exagearted beyond the words quoted in the ziarat and Duas.

Edited by Muslim2010

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Yes. He curses different groups. The Prophets and Imams (peace be upon them all) has also cursed and commanded us to do the same. 

What would one achieve by cursing individuals who lived and died many years ago? Maybe you could enlighten me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, thegreenleaf said:

What would one achieve by cursing individuals who lived and died many years ago? Maybe you could enlighten me.

This statement needs the following two points in reply:

1. There are many verses n Quran that mentions Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) send lanah on various groups or factions  like kufar, munafiqeen enemies of the prophet, enemies of Angels etc. There  is not time limit defined in quran for sending this Curse / Lanah . This means when these verses are recited lanah to those factions is sent  as mentioned in these  verses. For example:  

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَمَاتُوا وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ أُولَٰئِكَ عَلَيْهِمْ لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةِ وَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ

Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all; (2;161)

أُولَٰئِكَ جَزَاؤُهُمْ أَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ لَعْنَةَ اللَّهِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةِ وَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ

(As for) these, their reward is that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and of men, all together.

2.   There are verses associated with the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his purified progeny where their enemies  and those rejected them are cursed in the verses of quran like:

وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنِ افْتَرَىٰ عَلَى اللَّهِ كَذِبًا ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ يُعْرَضُونَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ وَيَقُولُ الْأَشْهَادُ هَٰؤُلَاءِ الَّذِينَ كَذَبُوا عَلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ ۚ أَلَا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ

And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah? These shall be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses shall say: These are they who lied against their Lord. Now surely the curse of Allah is on the unjust. (11:18)

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يُؤْذُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَعَنَهُمُ اللَّهُ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةِ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُمْ عَذَابًا مُّهِينًا

Surely (as for) those who speak evil things of Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and the here after, and He has prepared for them a chastisement bringing disgrace. (33:57)

فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنفُسَنَا وَأَنفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars. (3:61)

Would  you like to stop the Laanh on kufars and munafiqeen  as those who have died earlier but the verses are still part of Quran for lanah /curse on them?

Edited by Muslim2010

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare
12 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

Allah refers to Muhammad as "your companion" in 53:2. So the word itself definitely exists. If he's their companion then they're his companions.

To You and All.

As a Layman, I can see/read/understand that Allah(عزّ وجلّ) revealed a complete Surah # 63 al-Munaafiqoon (The Hypocrites) &  Surah #23 al- Mu'minoon (The Believers) - So, among the followers/disciples will be two type of people. So, not sure if the Companion really is the right thing to say. 

Muhammad al- Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) was the most truthful and trustworthy person living among(Companion)  the Meccan so it may have something to do with this fact. 

 

Quote

وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَىٰ {1}

[Shakir 53:1] I swear by the star when it goes down.
[Pickthal 53:1] By the Star when it setteth,
[Yusufali 53:1] By the Star when it goes down,-

مَا ضَلَّ صَاحِبُكُمْ وَمَا غَوَىٰ {2}

[Shakir 53:2] Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray;
[Pickthal 53:2] Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived;
[Yusufali 53:2] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.

وَمَا يَنْطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَىٰ {3}

[Shakir 53:3] Nor does he speak out of desire.
[Pickthal 53:3] Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.
[Yusufali 53:3] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَىٰ {4}

[Shakir 53:4] It is naught but revelation that is revealed,
[Pickthal 53:4] It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired,
[Yusufali 53:4] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

عَلَّمَهُ شَدِيدُ الْقُوَىٰ {5}

[Shakir 53:5] The Lord of Mighty Power has taught him,
[Pickthal 53:5] Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
[Yusufali 53:5] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

 

However, You may be on to something more than you intended. This will imply that, for people reading today, as Allah(عزّ وجلّ) addresses them that 

"Your Companion"

Muhammad Al- Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) is/will be our Companion till the end of time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

Would  you like to stop the Laanh on kufars and munafiqeen  as those who have died earlier but the verses are still part of Quran for lanah /curse on them?

The verses you quote don't mention any individuals by name. They mention general reprehensible character-traits, e.g. the unjust, liars, people who speak evil things.

Besides, I asked for an 'aqli reason, not a naqli reason, as to what one would achieve by cursing. Suppose I am in a dark room. Which is more constructive? 1. Repeatedly cursing the darkness or 2. Doing something about it; lighting a candle, turning the lights on? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare

Look up willful intent. I have to be candid here, people are trying to manage impression. To down play, is to marginalize the issue, which is your interest. Not the interest of the Religion.

People need to find clear path to the teachings of Muhammad al- Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny). People who did not obey the Messenger, ( Tragedy of Thursday) , Ghadir Khumm, Saqifa, Battle of Jamal, Battle of Siffin, Karbala are not the ones who provide the clear path to Allah(عزّ وجلّ) Religion. 

So, to say, don't duel in the past is a mirage. And Yes we are doing something about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

No mujtahid is going to tell you 'yes, please curse non-stop in face of sunnis'. I don't know why you need approval for wajib & straightforward Ibadat. 

As much as you want this kind of topic should not be discussed, you only have stretched it far down here. Irony. 

Some guests and some members don't think cursing is the same as disassociation. He wanted to ask a question and receive the answers from the two maraja (Ayatullah Sistani and Ayatollah Khamenei) who probably have the most followers, which would mean something in his estimation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Why do people take cursing negatively? Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has cursed so many times in Holy Qur'an.

Isn't cursing negative? Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) commanded Prophet Musa AS to go to Firaun (Pharoah) and say: 

"And speak to him a gentle word, perhaps he may take heed or fear." [Holy Qur'an 20:44]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, thegreenleaf said:

The verses you quote don't mention any individuals by name. They mention general reprehensible character-traits, e.g. the unjust, liars, people who speak evil things.

The above part of your reply is agreed in the light of verses of quran as quoted in last post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare

Answer depends on the question asked and way it is phrased. No one is talking about PUBLIC Abusive language/Insult/Derogatory/Profane Language or getting in face of someone who grew up revering certain personalities. If that was the question. A common layman can answer that. NO not Allowed.

However. 

Anyone who went against/enemy of Ahlul Kisa( The people of the Cloak) - 3:59-61

 

فَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ فَاسْتَعِذْ بِاللَّهِ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ الرَّجِيمِ {98}

[Shakir 16:98] So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan,
[Pickthal 16:98] And when thou recitest the Qur'an, seek refuge in Allah from Satan the outcast.
[Yusufali 16:98] When thou dost read the Qur'an, seek Allah's protection from Satan the rejected one.

-----------------

إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَىٰ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ ۖ خَلَقَهُ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُ {59}

[Shakir 3:59] Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.
[Pickthal 3:59] Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.
[Yusufali 3:59] The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

الْحَقُّ مِنْ رَبِّكَ فَلَا تَكُنْ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ {60}

[Shakir 3:60] (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.
[Pickthal 3:60] (This is) the truth from thy Lord (O Muhammad), so be not thou of those who waver.
[Yusufali 3:60] The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.

فَمَنْ حَاجَّكَ فِيهِ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْعِلْمِ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ وَنِسَاءَنَا وَنِسَاءَكُمْ وَأَنْفُسَنَا وَأَنْفُسَكُمْ ثُمَّ نَبْتَهِلْ فَنَجْعَلْ لَعْنَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ {61}

[Shakir 3:61] But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.
[Pickthal 3:61] And whoso disputeth with thee concerning him, after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, say (unto him): Come! We will summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, then we will pray humbly (to our Lord) and (solemnly) invoke the curse of Allah upon those who lie.
[Yusufali 3:61] If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!"

 

Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyan appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said:

What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali), whereupon be said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said about him that I would not abuse him and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camels. I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) say about 'Ali as he left him behind in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'Ali said to him: Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to him: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no prophethood after me. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger, and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We had been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory. (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed: "Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) called 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family.
 
حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبَّادٍ، - وَتَقَارَبَا فِي اللَّفْظِ - قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا حَاتِمٌ، - وَهُوَ ابْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ - عَنْ بُكَيْرِ بْنِ مِسْمَارٍ، عَنْ عَامِرِ بْنِ سَعْدِ بْنِ أَبِي وَقَّاصٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ أَمَرَ مُعَاوِيَةُ بْنُ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ سَعْدًا فَقَالَ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَنْ تَسُبَّ أَبَا التُّرَابِ فَقَالَ أَمَّا مَا ذَكَرْتُ ثَلاَثًا قَالَهُنَّ لَهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَلَنْ أَسُبَّهُ لأَنْ تَكُونَ لِي وَاحِدَةٌ مِنْهُنَّ أَحَبُّ إِلَىَّ مِنْ حُمْرِ النَّعَمِ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ لَهُ خَلَّفَهُ فِي بَعْضِ مَغَازِيهِ فَقَالَ لَهُ عَلِيٌّ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ خَلَّفْتَنِي مَعَ النِّسَاءِ وَالصِّبْيَانِ فَقَالَ لَهُ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ أَمَا تَرْضَى أَنْ تَكُونَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى إِلاَّ أَنَّهُ لاَ نُبُوَّةَ بَعْدِي ‏"‏ ‏.‏ وَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ يَوْمَ خَيْبَرَ ‏"‏ لأُعْطِيَنَّ الرَّايَةَ رَجُلاً يُحِبُّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيُحِبُّهُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ فَتَطَاوَلْنَا لَهَا فَقَالَ ‏"‏ ادْعُوا لِي عَلِيًّا ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَأُتِيَ بِهِ أَرْمَدَ فَبَصَقَ فِي عَيْنِهِ وَدَفَعَ الرَّايَةَ إِلَيْهِ فَفَتَحَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَلَمَّا نَزَلَتْ هَذِهِ الآيَةُ ‏{‏ فَقُلْ تَعَالَوْا نَدْعُ أَبْنَاءَنَا وَأَبْنَاءَكُمْ‏}‏ دَعَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم عَلِيًّا وَفَاطِمَةَ وَحَسَنًا وَحُسَيْنًا فَقَالَ ‏"‏ اللَّهُمَّ هَؤُلاَءِ أَهْلِي ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Reference  : Sahih Muslim 2404 d
In-book reference  : Book 44, Hadith 50
USC-MSA web (English) reference

 : Book 31, Hadith 5915

 

https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/50

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

There are so many Ayats where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has cursed. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is free from any negative characteristics. 

Yes, but Allah is All-Knowing and He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows if someone needs to be cursed or not. People who misunderstand Tabarra might make something up or add something extra to what we already have (Holy Qur'an, hadiths or duas). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2020 at 10:17 PM, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

So, not sure if the Companion really is the right thing to say. 

Muhammad al- Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) was the most truthful and trustworthy person living among(Companion)  the Meccan so it may have something to do with this fact. 

Depends what your definition of companion is. According to the dictionary it means someone you spend much time with. For me personally, it doesn't rule out even a hypocrite spending time with Muhammad being called a companion. Nor does one being called a companion automatically mean they're good. In fact, in the context of Surah Najm, it would appear Allah was addressing concerns/doubts of the companions of Muhammad. Thus He says that your companion Muhammad hasn't erred, nor spoken from self, it is naught but a revelation. Would explain why they weren't called "believers" here.

Quote

However, You may be on to something more than you intended. This will imply that, for people reading today, as Allah(عزّ وجلّ) addresses them that 

"Your Companion"

Muhammad Al- Mustafa (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) is/will be our Companion till the end of time.

Can't say I agree with this because of the definition of companion given above. I've definitely not had the pleasure to spend time with Muhammad and so don't consider companionship between us.

Similarly, I don't consider Muhammad being a witness over us today either. Yes, Prophets are a witness over their nation just as Muhammad is a witness over his nation [4:41, 16:89]. But that witnessing ceases upon death in this world according to this verse, where Isa will say:

[5:117] I only said to them what Thou didst command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when Thou didst take me to Thyself, Thou wast Thyself the watcher over them; Thou Thyself art witness of everything

Here's a question to really think about; Is everything in the Quran addressed to you, today?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Yes, but Allah is All-Knowing and He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows if someone needs to be cursed or not. People who misunderstand Tabarra might make something up or add something extra to what we already have (Holy Qur'an, hadiths or duas). 

If you study Qur'an and Ahadith, it becomes clear. Especially Ahadith have clear instructions about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jaane Rabb said:

Similarly, I don't consider Muhammad being a witness over us today either. Yes, Prophets are a witness over their nation just as Muhammad is a witness over his nation [4:41, 16:89]. But that witnessing ceases upon death in this world according to this verse, where Isa will say:

[5:117] I only said to them what Thou didst command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a witness over them, while I remained among them; but when Thou didst take me to Thyself, Thou wast Thyself the watcher over them; Thou Thyself art witness of everything

Here's a question to really think about; Is everything in the Quran addressed to you, today

Salam all prophets specially prophet Muhammad (pbu) are witness as prophet Isa (عليه السلام) & his blessed mother will dissociate from everyone  that worshiped & now worships & will worship  them as god & goddess  that in shia point of  viewpoint  everything in holy Quran is addressing to past & now & future but because  of lack of knowledge  we think some verses of it just refers to past or future or now but Quran  is clarification for everything  but needs an infallible  person with access to all knowledge  of past & now & future to explain everything  from it for us.

We have sent down the Book to you as a clarification of all things 

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/16:89

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/18/2020 at 11:37 AM, YaAli223 said:

Salam aleykom. Allah humma sallay ala muhammadin wa aale muhammad,

These days, there are many shia's who claim that they should not curse the sahaba (Abu bakr, Omar and Uthman for example). They give the example that the Prophet(saawaws) never cursed some of the sahaba, and if he(saawaws) did not curse them, we should not. What is your opinion about it.

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

brother  Salaam
i will advise you to follow the sunnah of rasool allah((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).w) mola Ali, hasan and hussayn((عليه السلام))

rasool allah(s,a.wW) never cursed or abused any one
even he faced worst situations like being boycotted for 3 years with nothing to eat 
being stoned by taif people but he always use to give dua

in case of mola ali ((عليه السلام)) no matter how  how big the differences were between mola ali and these caliphs but mola ali ((عليه السلام)) never defied them, never cursed them, never abuised them infact mola ali((عليه السلام))was seen as one of the biggest supporter and in the front lines when it comes to support these three calips
even in the case of mola ali((عليه السلام)) biggest enemy ameer shaam muaviya ibn abi sufiyaan
mola ali never cursed or abused him
but yes he did qunoot e naaazila against muaviya so we shud do that
and this attitude is  totally wrong that openly your are not cursing someone but in hiding you r cursing
cos this attitude is called munaafqat (hippocracy) and molaa ali((عليه السلام)) never taught us to be munaafiq

so my brother Just follow mola ali((عليه السلام)) and you will be guided to the right path

and by follow i mean 
to read whats written about his sunnah in the authentic books of hadith seerat and nahaj ul balagah
not just listen to zaakireen and blindly follow
cos many zaaakireen speak lie about mola ali((عليه السلام)) while in reality mola ali((عليه السلام)) character is totally different

may ALLAH guide us all
Ameen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare

تَبَّتْ يَدَا أَبِي لَهَبٍ وَتَبَّ {1}

[Pickthal 111:1] The power of Abu Lahab will perish, and he will perish.

مَا أَغْنَىٰ عَنْهُ مَالُهُ وَمَا كَسَبَ {2}

[Pickthal 111:2] His wealth and gains will not exempt him.

سَيَصْلَىٰ نَارًا ذَاتَ لَهَبٍ {3}

[Pickthal 111:3] He will be plunged in flaming Fire,

وَامْرَأَتُهُ حَمَّالَةَ الْحَطَبِ {4}

[Pickthal 111:4] And his wife, the wood-carrier,

فِي جِيدِهَا حَبْلٌ مِنْ مَسَدٍ {5}

[Pickthal 111:5] Will have upon her neck a halter of palm-fibre.

---------

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-3-allah-son-abu-quhafah

https://www.al-islam.org/fatimah-al-masumah-role-model-men-and-women-ayatullah-sayyid-muhammad-husayn-fadlullah/chapter-1-her#5-she-died-angry-her-oppressors

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I find this to be a weak response by Shi'as who say "we do not curse the Sahaba because we do not consider them to be Sahaba in the first place." The Qur'an in the Verse of the Cave 9:40 literally uses the word for "companion" for the first caliph, and we all know how the rights of the Ahlulbayt were stolen and trampled upon by him.

Being a Sahaba of the Prophet is in no way any kind of merit or deserving of praise. So what if someone is Sahaba? So what if someone is related to the Prophet (Abu Lahab)? Anybody deserving of praise should have earned it, and anyone deserving of la`nah must have earned it as well. The Sahaba cursed each other on many occasions, are Sunnis going to attack them the same way they attack us? Shi'as also send la`nah on many of those who lied upon the Imams even though they were related to the Ahlulbayt.

As other have mentioned, Ziyarat al-Ashura is full of la`nah and quite clearly makes reference to the first caliphs without naming them. The Qur'an is full of la`nah and has even explicitly mentioned those that angered Allah (azwj) He made of them apes and pigs (5:60). Many Shi'as today feel like la`nah has no place in religion because it seems aggressive or might hurt others' beliefs but fail to realize it is everywhere in our texts. I find it it very important to discuss these issues because the first thing Sunnis usually ask when they encounter Shi'as is, "do you curse the Sahaba?" or "what do you think of <caliph x>?" and some Shi'as do get a bit nervous. We do have to answer them with evidence and rationale. I still find it disappointing that many Shi'as don't even know what the status of the first three caliphs is to them because we so often not want to discuss it and sweep it under the rug rather than address it (i.e. are they Muslim? Kafir? Muslim-Fasiq? Munafiq?). I don't think even I know what the mainstream position of Shi'as is in this regard.

That being said, it's quite weird how some Shi'as have made la`nah to being almost an usul al-deen where they send la`n more than they pray in a day. It's as though they do it to provoke Sunnis more than they wish to attain closeness to Allah, and He truly knows their intentions.

Long story short, indeed many of the Sahaba deserve the removal of Allah's mercy upon them because of their actions in this world. Many of the Sahaba do deserve praise for their actions, and (in my opinion) many of the Sahaba do not deserve either la`nah or praise because of their complicated decisions (i.e. Zubair ibn al-Awwam).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jaabir said:

^ I find this to be a weak response by Shi'as who say "we do not curse the Sahaba because we do not consider them to be Sahaba in the first place." The Qur'an in the Verse of the Cave 9:40 literally uses the word for "companion" for the first caliph, and we all know how the rights of the Ahlulbayt were stolen and trampled upon by him.

 

The Sahabi who was in the cave was NOT Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr was NOT an expert in terrain and knowing the locations. It was Abdullah Bin Ariq’t Bin Bakr. It has been proven even by Sunnis that Abu Bakr was not the guy in the cave. 

Your argument os built on an incorrect premise. I will not bother with the rest. Apologies.

Edited by Ibn Al-Shahid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pschological Warfare

As a layman, and elementary level search will reveal the following, may be incomplete but others with "Knowledge" of the language and Qur'an can explain or correct layman's initial/elementary/incomplete search....Just considering the examples below(may be incomplete) and might lead to incomplete understanding. So, I can't be sure at my level if this word has any special meaning or conveys a special Status. ( Incomplete layman view) 

Quote
يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَأَرْبَابٌ مُتَفَرِّقُونَ خَيْرٌ أَمِ اللَّهُ الْوَاحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ {39}

[Shakir 12:39] O my two mates of the prison! are sundry lords better or Allah the One, the Supreme?
[Pickthal 12:39] O my fellow-prisoners! Are divers lords better, or Allah the One, Almighty?
[Yusufali 12:39] "O my two companions of the prison! (I ask you): are many lords differing among themselves better, or the One Allah, Supreme and Irresistible?

&

Quote
أَلَمْ تَرَ كَيْفَ فَعَلَ رَبُّكَ بِأَصْحَابِ الْفِيلِ {1}

[Shakir 105:1] Have you not considered how your Lord dealt with the possessors of the elephant?
[Pickthal 105:1] Hast thou not seen how thy Lord dealt with the owners of the Elephant?
[Yusufali 105:1] Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant?

&

Quote
أَمْ حَسِبْتَ أَنَّ أَصْحَابَ الْكَهْفِ وَالرَّقِيمِ كَانُوا مِنْ آيَاتِنَا عَجَبًا {9}

[Shakir 18:9] Or, do you think that the Fellows of the Cave and the Inscription were of Our wonderful signs?
[Pickthal 18:9] Or deemest thou that the People of the Cave and the Inscription are a wonder among Our portents?
[Yusufali 18:9] Or dost thou reflect that the Companions of the Cave and of the Inscription were wonders among Our Sign?

&

Quote
إِلَّا تَنْصُرُوهُ فَقَدْ نَصَرَهُ اللَّهُ إِذْ أَخْرَجَهُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا ثَانِيَ اثْنَيْنِ إِذْ هُمَا فِي الْغَارِ إِذْ يَقُولُ لِصَاحِبِهِ لَا تَحْزَنْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَنَا ۖ فَأَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ سَكِينَتَهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَيَّدَهُ بِجُنُودٍ لَمْ تَرَوْهَا وَجَعَلَ كَلِمَةَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا السُّفْلَىٰ ۗ وَكَلِمَةُ اللَّهِ هِيَ الْعُلْيَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ {40}

[Shakir 9:40] If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[Pickthal 9:40] If ye help him not, still Allah helped him when those who disbelieve drove him forth, the second of two; when they two were in the cave, when he said unto his comrade: Grieve not. Lo! Allah is with us. Then Allah caused His peace of reassurance to descend upon him and supported him with hosts ye cannot see, and made the word of those who disbelieved the nethermost, while Allah's Word it was that became the uppermost. Allah is Mighty, Wise.
[Yusufali 9:40] If ye help not (your leader), (it is no matter): for Allah did indeed help him, when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion; they two were in the cave, and he said to his companion, "Have no fear, for Allah is with us": then Allah sent down His peace upon him, and strengthened him with forces which ye saw not, and humbled to the depths the word of the Unbelievers. But the word of Allah is exalted to the heights: for Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...