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YaAli223

Opinion on cursing some of the sahaba

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On 5/22/2020 at 6:52 PM, power said:

Bibi Fatima (sa) cried for six months on her father's grave complaining of injustices that her family had endured. For me personally that speaks volumes about the so- called so and so!

That is one Incidence.

How Imam Ali lived and interacted with Sahabas in general.

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1 minute ago, power said:

That one incident has no consequences in the eyes of Allah and her father?

Agreed.How imam Ali reacted to it.

How Imam Ali behaved ,advised and helped Usman when he was cardoned in Madina.

Imam Ali used all his effort to solve the crises ,guided Usman how settle it.

Because Imam is to guide even if there is differences.And it's this thing that give them highest rank.

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20 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Brother I to be frank enough.I don't feel the Imams would do Tabbarah as we today do. 

Imams were bearer of willayah and had best model of ethics.I may say one of the important difference in ordinary people and Imams is their highest level of ethics they had. Do it doesn't fit that Imam would do Tabbarah we some of us feel.Becsuse Imams were to guide those who erred and not do Tabbarah.

Don't devalue Imam to ordinary level .

Again you interpret religion your own way contradictory to the orthodox teachings, that’s haram. You deny the reliability of authentic ahadith, that’s haram. This conversation is pointless because you stand up to A’immah.

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4 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Again you interpret religion your own way contradictory to the orthodox teachings, that’s haram. You deny the reliability of authentic ahadith, that’s haram. This conversation is pointless because you stand up to A’immah.

I didn't.

How Imam Ali guided and helped Usman when he was cardoned.

How Imam Ali advised Umar when he planned to fight against Roman and Persian empror.

How Imam Hussain guided Zuhair Ibnee qain despite knowing that he is from party' of Uthman.

I think you should oppose Imam Ali why he acted like that instead of slandering them.

Edited by Hadi5

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4 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Agreed.How imam Ali reacted to it.

How Imam Ali behaved ,advised and helped Usman when he was cardoned in Madina.

Imam Ali used all his effort to solve the crises ,guided Usman how settle it.

Because Imam is to guide even if there is differences.And it's this thing that give them highest rank.

This is exactly what modern misunderstood taqiyya does to one’s mind, they slowly become Sunnis, accepting those who persecuted and insulted the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). It’s a Sunni belief that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) defended Uthman from other sahaba before his death. 

Quote

Whoever believes that Uthman was killed innocently, his sins on the day of judgement will be more than those who worshipped the calf.

Shia source; Allamah Majlisi, Hayat ul Quloob, Vol. 1, p. 20

Quote

The clear proof of the disbelief of Uthman is that Ali (عليه السلام) considered his killing mubah, and didn’t consider anything wrong in it.

Shia source; Allamah Majlisi, Haqqul Yaqin, p. 270

 

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4 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

This is exactly what modern misunderstood taqiyya does to one’s mind, they slowly become Sunnis, accepting those who persecuted and insulted the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). It’s a Sunni belief that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) defended Uthman from other sahaba before his death. 

 

Don't teach me 

Either change history, change nahjul balagah ,change the Islamic code of ethics.

If the historic facts are true, than your stand is weak 

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7 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

Whoever believes that Uthman was killed innocently, his sins on the day of judgement will be more than those who worshipped the calf.

Shia source; Allamah Majlisi, Hayat ul Quloob,

I never said Usman was innocent.

Noone is infallible except Imams.

My point was just check how Imam Ali acted.

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3 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

@OrthodoxTruth.

I know you have no answer why Imams acted against the emotions of common Shias.

What this supposed to mean? 

Quote

You didn't reply to view of Imam Sadiaq as on companions.

I replied in the topic started by you and I reposted my answer here already as well. It’s you who doesn’t read any answers but NON-STOP reposts the same reading over and over. I, and others, already told you that whenever our purified Imams (peace be upon them all) spoke favourably about the sahaba, they spoke about the just sahaba, not all of them. It is something that you seem not to understand or accept at all. We don’t believe that all sahaba were just and all are in paradise. It’s a laughable belief. 

Quote

I know that too is against your emotions.

I’m very unemotional when I respond to this or any topic on this forum. So your posts can’t go against my emotions. I don’t engage emotionally on here. 

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4 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

Already discussed, explained and refuted in the light of verses of Quran . wasalam

It is in general view.

Why should Imam say don't despise or have bad openion ,don't judge.

Why should Imam say like that.

You say this is regarding one group ie (righteous group). 

Why would one at first say bad about good Sahabi.

 

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3 hours ago, al-Muttaqin said:

They are not immune to criticism, nor is there any actual official "sahaba" list it's just a vague category.

They are not Immune, but that doesn't mean they should be slandered or abused.

If you mean they did mistake.

That is true.Then no one earth is sinless .Does that mean we should abuse every one including our Muslim brothers.

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1 hour ago, Hadi5 said:

They are not Immune, but that doesn't mean they should be slandered or abused.

If you mean they did mistake.

That is true.Then no one earth is sinless .Does that mean we should abuse every one including our Muslim brothers.

Nobody is saying to slander or abuse them. What we are saying is that we condemn their actions and disassociate from them. They are not our leaders, role models or references. We don't want to have anything to do with them.

 

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14 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

It is in general view.

Why should Imam say don't despise or have bad openion ,don't judge.

Why should Imam say like that.

You say this is regarding one group ie (righteous group). 

Why would one at first say bad about good Sahabi.

Go use your head and open your eyes instead of keeping them closed. See the responses given in the other thread substantiated duly with the verses of quran and hadith  where you have quoted  a saying from the book attributed to Imam. wasalam 

Edited by Muslim2010

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37 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Nobody is saying to slander or abuse them. What we are saying is that we condemn their actions and disassociate from them. They are not our leaders, role models or references. We don't want to have anything to do with them.

 

No, one say that make them your role model.

Definitely they did mistake, and Allah catch if they didn't repent.

But it never means nor it's teaching of holy Prophet saww or Imams to mock or slander or abuse.

Imagine the character and magnemity of Imams that they guided ,helped and taught them when in need.

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37 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

Go use your head and open your eyes instead of keeping them closed. See the responses given in the other thread substantiated duly with the verses of quran and hadith  where you have quoted  a saying from the book attributed to Imam. wasalam 

I know your response in other thread. Your argument is not strong.

Again why should Imam SAdiq as prohibit his followers from slandering sahaba. 

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Guest Ahlusunnah

What i find odd is that Shias introduce bidah in their own ideology. By that i mean they do something which Ali ,Hassan and Hussain radiyallah anhum did not do.

They curse Sahabah, but Ali (رضي الله عنه) did not do that. Infact he advised them and cooperated with them.

Are they(Tabarra followers) better than Ali, Hassan and Hussain radiyallah anhum?

 

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@Hadi5

All brothers tried to help you with your doubt but you don't seem to pay attention. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) helping someone is due to his wisdom. He was not helping caliphs but Islam. He was acting according to will of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to not take sword. These caliphs who insulted Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), usurped the right of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), usurped baaghe fadak, attack the house of Janabe Zehra (sa), killed her and her unborn child, changed laws of Islam, etc.. their evil acts cannot be forgiven and they deserve eternal curse and punishment. 

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 93:

وَمَن يَقْتُلْ مُؤْمِنًا مُّتَعَمِّدًا فَجَزَاؤُهُ جَهَنَّمُ خَالِدًا فِيهَا وَغَضِبَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَلَعَنَهُ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُ عَذَابًا عَظِيمًا

And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

(English - Shakir)

Who is believer more than our immaculate Imams and Lady of light (peace be upon them all). 

And since you asked me about Tabarrah, check below link, read and understand. 

https://seratonline.com/?s=Tabarra

Edited by Sirius_Bright
Tag

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40 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

@Hadi5

All brothers tried to help you with your doubt but you don't seem to pay attention. Imam Ali (عليه السلام) helping someone is due to his wisdom. He was not helping caliphs but Islam. He was acting according to will of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to not take sword. These caliphs who insulted Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), usurped the right of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), usurped baaghe fadak, attack the house of Janabe Zehra (sa), killed her and her unborn child, changed laws of Islam, etc.. their evil acts cannot be forgiven and they deserve eternal curse and punishment. 

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 93:

وَمَن يَقْتُلْ مُؤْمِنًا مُّتَعَمِّدًا فَجَزَاؤُهُ جَهَنَّمُ خَالِدًا فِيهَا وَغَضِبَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَلَعَنَهُ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُ عَذَابًا عَظِيمًا

And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

(English - Shakir)

Who is believer more than our immaculate Imams and Lady of light (peace be upon them all). 

And since you asked me about Tabarrah, check below link, read and understand. 

https://seratonline.com/?s=Tabarra

I have no doubt. Allah will punish those who commited crime.

Idon't think Imamah is something that can be unsurped.

Yes you are right, Imams good advise to Caliph was to secure Islam and that is what they did.

This clearly Indicates what we should learn from Imams.

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24 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

I have no doubt. Allah will punish those who commited crime.

Idon't think Imamah is something that can be unsurped.

Yes you are right, Imams good advise to Caliph was to secure Islam and that is what they did.

This clearly Indicates what we should learn from Imams.

Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Aimma (عليهم اسلام) also cursed enemies in Qunoot. Hope you learn that as well. 

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9 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Aimma (عليهم اسلام) also cursed enemies in Qunoot. Hope you learn that as well. 

Yes,

Those who are enimies of Islam.

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10 hours ago, Hadi5 said:

That is one Incidence.

How Imam Ali lived and interacted with Sahabas in general.

This is an extract from Nahjul Balagha :

During his silence, he indeed started cooperating with the first 2 Caliphs as consultant and did his best to decrease the damage as much as possible. If he had not done so, Islam would have been destroyed completely. Imam Ali said: "I tolerated those periods as if there was a thorn in my eye and a sharp bone stuck in my throat."(1) Islam was very young at that time (only 23 years old!) and division among Muslims could have totally removed Islam from the surface of the earth. So he kept silent.

Even though Imam Ali (عليه السلام) cooperated with companions, the above sermon from Imam Ali (عليه السلام) clearly shows he had endured immense pain in silence. 

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34 minutes ago, Hadi5 said:

Yes,

Those who are enimies of Islam.

So you can curse the enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) & Islam. You curse would automatically find its place where to descend. 

By the way, brothers of Ahlul Sunnah also count Muawiyah as companion. What is your opinion about him? Would you like to add (رضي الله عنه) after his name?

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20 minutes ago, Cool said:

Ahlul Sunnah

With all due respect, The real 'Ahlul Sunnah' are the followers of the Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) who are the only ones who emulated the Sunnah of the Prophet saww. Giving the title to anyone following other than Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) is misleading at best. Even though some like to label themselves as such, I would not do so as it would be condoning a false narrative.

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1 hour ago, Cool said:

So you can curse the enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) & Islam. You curse would automatically find its place where to descend. 

By the way, brothers of Ahlul Sunnah also count Muawiyah as companion. What is your opinion about him? Would you like to add (رضي الله عنه) after his name?

Yes, muawiya was worst enemy of Islam and Ahlebayt as.

But generalising it on most Ashabs is not justice and wise,but ignorance and arrogance. And shia too are getting its prize.

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On 5/23/2020 at 7:43 AM, Hadi5 said:

Yes, muawiya was worst enemy of Islam and Ahlebayt as.

But generalising it on most Ashabs is not justice and wise,but ignorance and arrogance. And shia too are getting its prize.

Mu'awiyah was bad, Umar was bad. 

Abu Bakar and Umar were the one who usurped khilafah from Ameerul Momineen (عليه السلام). They are the foundation of all the atrocities that happened thereafter on Holy Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) including Karbala. Mu'awiyah, who you consider worst, was installed by Umar ibne Khattab. 

Edited by ShiaChat Mod
typo

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On 5/23/2020 at 8:03 AM, Mahdavist said:

@Hadi5 Brother I am struggling to understand what or whom you are actually arguing against.

You continuously mention slander and abuse, yet nobody in this thread has done or condoned either. 

Where exactly is the disagreement between you and everyone else on this thread? 

If no body has comdoned or done it .Then it is ok.

My point is we should learn what Imams did how they lived the Ashabs.

It is true that some companions did mistakes and some grevious crimes.

You have every right to dissociate from them.

But slandering or abusing or generalising on companion's Is wrong and against teachings.

It has one more negative effects that true teachings of Ahlebayt as that is Tawheed of Allah and moral ethical perfection gets undermined.

And forvcommon people it becomesvdifficult to convey the message of Islam, because our identity has become as religion of slendring and mocking.

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14 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

You continuously mention slander and abuse, yet nobody in this thread has done or condoned either. 

Where exactly is the disagreement between you and everyone else on this thread? 

The simple answer is we do not take all the companions as adil / just , all in praradize, bla bla ...., As we form our basis on the verses of Quran, hadith and the historical evidences about the events occurred  after the life of the prophet and imams for getting the truth. This does not seem acceptable by him.

The criticism of the actions of the companions as mentioned in the verses of quran is part of belief of muslim as we believe All is from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I think this is the disagreement. wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

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10 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

The simple answer is we do not take all the companions as adil / just , all in praradize, bla bla ...., As we form our basis on the verses of Quran, hadith and the historical evidences about the events occurred  after the life of the prophet and imams for getting the truth. This does not seem acceptable by him.

The criticism of the actions of the companions as mentioned in the verses of quran is part of belief of muslim as we believe All is from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I think this is the disagreement. wasalam

Why should  we have concern who out of Sahaba will go in jannah and who not.

How many of muslims or shiah may go jannah.

We behave as if jannah is our property.

Just listen lecture of Khomini ra how difficult it is to go Jannah or achieve shifat.

He even says that behaviour Shias like that they may never get shifaat of Ahlebayt as.

So it is better us to reckon our outcome than others.

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On 5/23/2020 at 9:07 AM, Hadi5 said:

If no body has comdoned or done it .Then it is ok.

My point is we should learn what Imams did how they lived the Ashabs.

Every Imams (عليه السلام) lived in a period were their lives was in danger. They could not openly curse the companions hence they were doing dissimulation.

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On 5/23/2020 at 11:17 AM, power said:

Every Imams (عليه السلام) lived in a period were their lives was in danger. They could not openly curse the companions hence they were doing dissimulation.

If not openly, why secretly.

Mujtahids futwas are clear about it. We can politely dissociate from them. That too not presenting this as core of action.

Rather our All efforts should be to convey the message of Tawheed and Taqwa that is crux of Islam.

Then when needed also highlight the wrong doing of some Sahaba.

But at same time give true reverence and praising of sacrifices given by rest of Sahaba.

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