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YaAli223

Opinion on cursing some of the sahaba

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Salam aleykom. Allah humma sallay ala muhammadin wa aale muhammad,

These days, there are many shia's who claim that they should not curse the sahaba (Abu bakr, Omar and Uthman for example). They give the example that the Prophet(saawaws) never cursed some of the sahaba, and if he(saawaws) did not curse them, we should not. What is your opinion about it.

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

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Salam Alykum, 

In regards to the Shia image, and Shia/Sunni unity I would advise not to openly curse the sahaba. Our Sunni brothers respect the sahaba, as we respect the Imams. Imagine if the Sunni's began cursing the Imams, we would be out rioting. Our imams have taught us Shia how to perform on these matters through proper etiquette. 

Many Shiekhs nowadays are on the pulpit cursing the sahaba, left, right, and center and posting it on Youtube, and various other streaming platforms for millions of people to watch including our sunni brothers.... some of them will begin to hate us because we cursed their OG sahaba.... this is how Shia/Sunni disunity begins..... how Shia killings begin, how secular wars begin.... 

Also, imagine if someone wants to convert to Shiaism. ... and then they hear we are the cursers of the Prophets Sahaba..... I don't think that's an amazing first start LOL. 

I am not saying cursing should stop, but it has a time and place. Let me remind you that most Sunni's, and Shia's included follow their faith blindly. Most Sunni's probably aren't aware of their Sahaba's resume besides that fact that they were the prophets companion, and served as the caliphates... and most Shia's probably have no clue on why they are cursing the Sahaba besides that fact that their parents do it..... this is why both parties should do their research first. 

Anyways, that's just my opinion. Wish you all the best, 

WS

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Guest Quran and Itrah

If you don't believe in publicly cursing because of respect that a large number of Muslims due to Fitnah, due to unfolding of events, dearly hold certain personalities highly, and it can cause harm in the Ummah, wouldn't you agree that publicly saying it's okay to do privately is going to offend and cause the same or similar harm as cursing publicly anyway?

If someone does not curse publicly, why would they publicly tell people it's okay to do privately?

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Wa alaykom al salam, 

As a Sunni myself I'm actually really happy to see the replies. However, with regards to your question i believe the cursing of the Sahaba is wrong.

A few Shia scholars which i follow and highly respect would say the same. For example; Ayatollah Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah.

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10 hours ago, Guest Quran and Itrah said:

If you don't believe in publicly cursing because of respect that a large number of Muslims due to Fitnah, due to unfolding of events, dearly hold certain personalities highly, and it can cause harm in the Ummah, wouldn't you agree that publicly saying it's okay to do privately is going to offend and cause the same or similar harm as cursing publicly anyway?

If someone does not curse publicly, why would they publicly tell people it's okay to do privately?

I don't hold the public/private view. I believe in transparency, so I would address these issues in the same way whether its being done at home, in the masjid or on live television. 

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6:108

"Abuse not those to whom they pray, apart from God, or they will abuse God in revenge without knowledge. So We have decked out fair to every nation their deeds; then to their Lord they shall return, and He will tell them what they have been doing."

Fact that Sunnis don't curse the saints of the Shias in retaliation is commendable.

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I also think their ancestors should not be cursed anywhere in presence of them or accessible to them over the internet. It will only pain those walking in their footsteps. Nothing good ever came of it. Its ignorance. Cursing the enemies of the holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahl al Bayt (عليه السلام) privately or out of their access is ENTIRELY a different matter though.

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19 hours ago, Guest Quran and Itrah said:

If you don't believe in publicly cursing because of respect that a large number of Muslims due to Fitnah, due to unfolding of events, dearly hold certain personalities highly, and it can cause harm in the Ummah, wouldn't you agree that publicly saying it's okay to do privately is going to offend and cause the same or similar harm as cursing publicly anyway?

If someone does not curse publicly, why would they publicly tell people it's okay to do privately?

Assalam u Alaikum

It is not a mere matter of publicly or privately cursing the beloved personalities of other Muslims. Yes, there is freedom of expression but we need to understand that such a freedom is not absolute in nature. The concept of 'cursing' that is the norm in our societies nowadays, especially in the underdeveloped countries, encourages cussing more than our dissociation from the act itself. That kind of conduct is plainly unacceptable whether it occurs in public or in private. As for the legitimate criticism, it may occur both publicly or privately as long as it is within the bounds of ethics and mannerism. Ahlaq is the whole point...

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1 hour ago, Abbas. said:

The concept of 'cursing' that is the norm in our societies nowadays, especially in the underdeveloped countries, encourages cussing more than our dissociation from the act itself.

Very true and a point that seems to fly above the head of many. Tabarrah comes from bara'ah which as you have correctly mentioned is the act of disassociating oneself from an act or individual. 

In itself it actually has nothing to do with cursing. 

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While we are on that page here, I have often noticed a Shia will curse a figure while that Shia is guilty of the same crime as the one they curse, just for instance usurpation of another's land or ruining the religion with their own ignorance based assertions while X Y Z of innovations and so on.

Thought provoking situation imho.

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Guest Quran and Itrah
On 5/20/2020 at 10:12 AM, Abbas. said:

Assalam u Alaikum

It is not a mere matter of publicly or privately cursing the beloved personalities of other Muslims. Yes, there is freedom of expression but we need to understand that such a freedom is not absolute in nature. The concept of 'cursing' that is the norm in our societies nowadays, especially in the underdeveloped countries, encourages cussing more than our dissociation from the act itself. That kind of conduct is plainly unacceptable whether it occurs in public or in private. As for the legitimate criticism, it may occur both publicly or privately as long as it is within the bounds of ethics and mannerism. Ahlaq is the whole point...

Walaykum Salaam,

I agree, reasoned, academic and sensitively conveyed criticism that opens the mind of those who hear it, rather than causes outrage, is perfectly acceptable.  Cussing (Sa'b) isn't tolerable and we don't advocate it. There are also those who rely on weak narrations and historical reports we actually hand on heart can not verify, to accuse wives of the Prophet of adultery and the likes, which our scholars have refuted.

Now, the topic of L'anah (not S'ab) is what i was referring to in my post. 

Whether or not someone believes it is okay to perform, has Quranic support, and the likes, i just questioned the rationale of those who:

1. Tell people not to publicly perform L'anah because of the harm it will cause doing it publicly.

2. Then go ahead and publicly tell people to perform it privately.

Irrespective of whether or not they believe it is okay to do privately, if someone isn't going to publicly curse someone because it will cause offense, publicly telling people to do it privately is hardly going to be better.

Which is why i scratch my head when i read posts of people saying "Don't curse publicly, it will cause offense" before they promptly go on to say "but go ahead and curse privately" , as if publicly telling people they curse privately is any different from cursing publicly anyway.

That's one thing i'd query about SC rules, we can't publicly curse (though the archives are full of it, especially during the 00s and early 10s) , but we're allowed to publicly declare we'll curse x,y,z, or a group privately. It's one and the same.  

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On 5/20/2020 at 2:21 PM, The Green Knight said:

While we are on that page here, I have often noticed a Shia will curse a figure while that Shia is guilty of the same crime as the one they curse, just for instance usurpation of another's land or ruining the religion with their own ignorance based assertions while X Y Z of innovations and so on.

Thought provoking situation imho.

Good point brother. This reminds me of narrations that tell us that certain curses may be returned to us and also that some of us will be reading the Qur'an while the Qur'an is cursing us.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us from such things. 

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I am a revert from sunni islam to shia islam. I never felt the need to curse any so called sahaba. I may be wrong, and again im no scholar, but the idea of disassociating from a certain personality never translated for me to curse them. I acknowledge that these individuals may very well have been enemies of the ahlul bayt AS, but I cannot find it in me to send lanaa on someone. Neither do I think you have to to be a follower of the ahlul bayt AS.

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10 hours ago, Pius_Raj said:

I am a revert from sunni islam to shia islam. I never felt the need to curse any so called sahaba. I may be wrong, and again im no scholar, but the idea of disassociating from a certain personality never translated for me to curse them. I acknowledge that these individuals may very well have been enemies of the ahlul bayt AS, but I cannot find it in me to send lanaa on someone. Neither do I think you have to to be a follower of the ahlul bayt AS.

Welcome to Shia Islam. 

Cursing is a part of Tabarrah. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has sent la'anah on individuals and groups in Qur'an. So la'an is not a bad thing. Infact doing la'an on enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and Holy Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) brings reward just like sending salawat. If you love someone it is only appropriate to hate their enemies. 

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On 5/21/2020 at 1:42 AM, Guest Quran and Itrah said:

Which is why i scratch my head when i read posts of people saying "Don't curse publicly, it will cause offense" before they promptly go on to say "but go ahead and curse privately" , as if publicly telling people they curse privately is any different from cursing publicly anyway.

Many lay/confused people come here to question and clarify about Tabarrah, a wajib act. We all know this is a public forum but we can't lie to him, we can't say things which are incorrect. Tabarrah is wajib and it should be declared as such so that someone coming here to question don't go back carrying wrong belief. Apart from that, there's always an advise for the questionnaire that this act is sensitive and should only be practiced considering appropriate time and place. 

You really need to stop stressing this public private thing with every post. I can see you're causing more harm with this repetitive rant than others who are trying to explain why it is important. 

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Guest Ahlusunnah

Public cursing of Sahaba(May Allah be pleased with them) should be avoided by shias as this can lead to further animosity. Its like adding more fuel to the fire.

For example a Jew refraining from cursing Jesus and Mary in front of christians. Thats not how interfaith works.

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11 minutes ago, Guest Ahlusunnah said:

Public cursing of Sahaba(May Allah be pleased with them) should be avoided by shias as this can lead to further animosity. Its like adding more fuel to the fire.

For example a Jew refraining from cursing Jesus and Mary in front of christians. Thats not how interfaith works.

TRUE.

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Guest Ahlusunnah
56 minutes ago, power said:

TRUE.

In Sunnism we cant curse the members of ahlubayt who are regarded as 12 Holy Imams by Shias. Quran doesnt allow us to insult those regarded as holy by others and also because we dont hate the descendents of Ali (رضي الله عنه). Some scholars of ahlusunnah took lessons from Jafar Sadiq rahimullah.

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16 minutes ago, Guest Ahlusunnah said:

In Sunnism we cant curse the members of ahlubayt who are regarded as 12 Holy Imams by Shias. Quran doesnt allow us to insult those regarded as holy by others and also because we dont hate the descendents of Ali (رضي الله عنه). Some scholars of ahlusunnah took lessons from Jafar Sadiq rahimullah.

Differentiating between truth and falsehood in history of Islam is so important, regardless of what sect you belong to.

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Guest Ahlusunnah
18 minutes ago, power said:

Differentiating between truth and falsehood in history of Islam is so important, regardless of what sect you belong to.

Ur truth is not my truth vice verse, also our truth(Islam in general) is not regarded as truth by Jew, Christian, Hindu etc. You might see majority of sahaba as renegades/apostates, but we dont see it that way.

What shias do behind closed doors is up to them. 

But public cursings goes against the spirit of seeking unity and stopping shedding blood amongst the sects. That is something which is in our interest, both communities.

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On 5/18/2020 at 10:07 PM, YaAli223 said:

Salam aleykom. Allah humma sallay ala muhammadin wa aale muhammad,

These days, there are many shia's who claim that they should not curse the sahaba (Abu bakr, Omar and Uthman for example). They give the example that the Prophet(saawaws) never cursed some of the sahaba, and if he(saawaws) did not curse them, we should not. What is your opinion about it.

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

Yes, 

We know how Imam Ali lived with them.He helped them in every need so that Islam should Prosper.

To me muawiya deserve cursing day and night.

Abubaker and Usman were good persons with weakness that all common muslims have.I don't feel they had any enimity with AhleBayat as.

Muawiya was the source all trouble the Imam Ali ,Imam Hassan and Hussain as has to face.And alos the muawiya demaged Islam most.

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3 hours ago, power said:

TRUE.

Cursing Sahaba is against the spirit of Islam.Since we know most Sahaba sacrifed their everything for Islam.So we should respect their sacrifices and observe how Prophet saw treated them.

And more Important how many were the sahaba whom you feel deserve to be cursed.

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4 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Many lay/confused people come here to question and clarify about Tabarrah, a wajib act. We all know this is a public forum but we can't lie to him, we can't say things which are incorrect. Tabarrah is wajib and it should be declared as such so that someone coming here to question don't go back carrying wrong belief. Apart from that, there's always an advise for the questionnaire that this act is sensitive and should only be practiced considering appropriate time and place. 

You really need to stop stressing this public private thing with every post. I can see you're causing more harm with this repetitive rant than others who are trying to explain why it is important. 

What is Tabbarah?

How Tabbarah should be done and who were dose.

Did Imam Ali do Tabbarah?

I don't know that Imam Ali did Tabbarah.

Imam Ali guided and helped all those who needed and asked.So we should learn what Imam Ali did.

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On 5/19/2020 at 4:37 AM, YaAli223 said:

Salam aleykom. Allah humma sallay ala muhammadin wa aale muhammad,

These days, there are many shia's who claim that they should not curse the sahaba (Abu bakr, Omar and Uthman for example). They give the example that the Prophet(saawaws) never cursed some of the sahaba, and if he(saawaws) did not curse them, we should not. What is your opinion about it.

May Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you

I wrote a massive reply and the website refreshed on me... In short, nowadays these Shias who refuse to curse put politics over religion. They believe that engaging in taqiyya or changing our beliefs will cause the Sunnis at minimum to leave us alone or at best to become Shias. It’s false thinking because our persecution won’t stop until the arrival of Imam al-Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). It also weakens our position theologically because we are accused of being hypocrites or liars about our beliefs. The great Allamah Majlisi (may Allah enlarge his abode) wrote in Haqqul Yaqin;

volume 2, page 519: 

E428FB61-FA56-4C10-9862-7DED9ED5FAA0.png.c0b7adbd951a40e05515ebb288eaa864.png
 

Quote

Our belief about tabarra is that we should loathe the four idols, i.e Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Muawiyah, and the four women i.e Aisha, Hafza, Hind and Umm Hakam, and their followers also, and that these are the worst creatures of God, and that the belief in God, and Messenger and Imams will not be completed till we loathe their enemies.

volume 2, page 522:

A94E2AAD-DE0D-457F-B3E2-C0A332B09421.png.fab3e088d2bb1f322992c572cb41b793.png
 

Quote

It has been narrated in Taqrib al Muarif from the freed slave of Imam Ali ibn Hussain (عليه السلام) that he asked the Imam (عليه السلام), I have the right over you, inform me about Abu Bakr and Umar. Imam (عليه السلام) replied: Both of them are unbelievers, and whoever loves them is also unbeliever.

Allamah Majlisi (may Allah continue blessing him) continues by saying that this and similar authentic ahadith can be found in, for example, Bihar al-Anwar with authentic chains of trustworthy narrators. There’s more examples, for example, in his book Hayat al-Qulub;

volume 1, page 157; 

8EFD0EB8-7792-433F-843C-1238D7D4B2AD.png.b209aba3d5a8cb10ca084d54330fa404.png
 

Quote

Whatever Abu Bakr did was against the verses of Quran, whoever acts against Quran is kafir, fasiq oppressor.

...etc. English translations of volumes 2 and 3 of Hayat al-Qulub can be found online. 

Ayatollah Khomeini writes in Kashf al-Asrar, page 121; 

A024863A-C367-41B1-9624-ED1A4DAC53C4.thumb.jpeg.d0eed843f1c79928d8b6cc63f32fe9a0.jpeg
 

Quote

Continue reading the Persian books written by Mulla Baqir Majlisi, for the Persian speaking people, so that you do not fall into the mischief of some kind of [religious] foolishness.

Edited by OrthodoxTruth

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3 hours ago, Guest Ahlusunnah said:

In Sunnism we cant curse the members of ahlubayt who are regarded as 12 Holy Imams by Shias. Quran doesnt allow us to insult those regarded as holy by others and also because we dont hate the descendents of Ali (رضي الله عنه). Some scholars of ahlusunnah took lessons from Jafar Sadiq rahimullah.

You did and still do. Save for marginal and unorthodox Sufi groups, mainstream Sunnis do not hold the Ahlul Bayt (peace be upon them) in any special way. Some of the consequent Prophetic descendants are seen, at most, as “great scholars”, like Imam Jafar al-Sadiq (عليه السلام), but that’s about it. He is not held in higher regard than Abu Hanifa and other Sunni “Imams”. Other than that, Internet is full of examples where Sunnis mock and make fun of the Prophet’s descendants, especially Imam al-Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). Entire Umayyad period it was a state policy to curse the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and Imam Ali (عليه السلام) from the Friday pulpits of Sunni mosques. Whoever didn’t want to confirm, was severely punished. 

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9 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

You did and still do. Save for marginal and unorthodox Sufi groups, mainstream Sunnis do not hold the Ahlul Bayt (peace be upon them) in any special way. Some of the consequent Prophetic descendants are seen, at most, as “great scholars”, like Imam Jafar al-Sadiq (عليه السلام), but that’s about it. He is not held in higher regard than Abu Hanifa and other Sunni “Imams”. Other than that, Internet is full of examples where Sunnis mock and make fun of the Prophet’s descendants, especially Imam al-Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). Entire Umayyad period it was a state policy to curse the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and Imam Ali (عليه السلام) from the Friday pulpits of Sunni mosques. Whoever didn’t want to confirm, was severely punished. 

How Imam Ali lived with aAshabs.

So we will live like that.

And this Tabbarah is universal order not against a specific group.

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On 5/22/2020 at 5:56 PM, OrthodoxTruth said:

I wrote a massive reply and the website refreshed on me... In short, nowadays these Shias who refuse to curse put politics over religion. They believe that engaging in taqiyya or changing our beliefs will cause the Sunnis at minimum to leave us alone or at best to become Shias. It’s false thinking because our persecution won’t stop until the arrival of Imam al-Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). It also weakens our position theologically because we are accused of being hypocrites or liars about our beliefs. The great Allamah Majlisi (may Allah enlarge his abode) wrote in Haqqul Yaqin;

volume 2, page 519: 

E428FB61-FA56-4C10-9862-7DED9ED5FAA0.png.c0b7adbd951a40e05515ebb288eaa864.png
 

volume 2, page 522:

A94E2AAD-DE0D-457F-B3E2-C0A332B09421.png.fab3e088d2bb1f322992c572cb41b793.png
 

Allamah Majlisi (may Allah continue blessing him) continues by saying that this and similar authentic ahadith can be found in, for example, Bihar al-Anwar with authentic chains of trustworthy narrators. There’s more examples, for example, in his book Hayat al-Qulub;

volume 1, page 157; 

8EFD0EB8-7792-433F-843C-1238D7D4B2AD.png.b209aba3d5a8cb10ca084d54330fa404.png
 

...etc. English translations of volumes 2 and 3 of Hayat al-Qulub can be found online. 

Ayatollah Khomeini writes in Kashf al-Asrar, page 121; 

A024863A-C367-41B1-9624-ED1A4DAC53C4.thumb.jpeg.d0eed843f1c79928d8b6cc63f32fe9a0.jpeg
 

Toggle navigation
 
Recognition of the Companions

 
Do not forsake certainty for doubt, and what is clear for what is hidden. Do not pass judgement on what you cannot see because of something you are told about it. Allah despises slander and bad opinion of your believing brothers. What then does He think of boldness in attributing a false statement, false belief or lie to the Companions of the Messenger of Allah?
 
As He said,
 

إِذْ تَلَقَّوْنَهُ بِأَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَتَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِكُم مَّا لَيْسَ لَكُم بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَتَحْسَبُونَهُ هَيِّنًا وَهُوَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمٌ

 

When you welcomed it with your tongues, and spoke with your mouths that which you had no knowledge of, and you deemed it an easy matter while with Allah it was grievous. (24:15)

 
As long as you can find a way to speak well and act well of people whether or not they are present. Do not do anything else. Allah said,
 

وَقُولُواْ لِلنَّاسِ حُسْناً

Speak to men good words. (2:83)

 
Know that Allah chose companions for His Prophet, honoured them with the noblest mark of honour and robed them in the robe of support, victory and the correct keeping of his company in desirable and undesirable situations. He made the tongue of His Prophet speak about their virtues, excellent qualities and marks of honour; so believe in their love, mention their excellence, and beware of the company of people of innovation, for it will make disbelief and clear loss grow in the heart. If the excellence of some of them is not clear to you, then leave them to the Knower of the Unseen, and say, 'O Allah, I love anyone You and Your Messenger love, and I hate anyone You and Your Messenger hate.' There is no obligation beyond that.

Imam Sadiq as

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On 5/22/2020 at 5:15 PM, Hadi5 said:

Cursing Sahaba is against the spirit of Islam.Since we know most Sahaba sacrifed their everything for Islam.So we should respect their sacrifices and observe how Prophet saw treated them.

And more Important how many were the sahaba whom you feel deserve to be cursed.

There is error in your reasoning, history hadiths does not favour your unsound reasoning. 

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On 5/22/2020 at 6:18 PM, Hadi5 said:

How Imam Ali lived with aAshabs.

So we will live like that.

And this Tabbarah is universal order not against a specific group.

You are not a marja’ to issue your verdicts on religious matters. Your personal opinions don’t mean much in regard to religious matters. 

On 5/22/2020 at 6:22 PM, Hadi5 said:
Toggle navigation
Recognition of the Companions

 
Do not forsake certainty for doubt, and what is clear for what is hidden. Do not pass judgement on what you cannot see because of something you are told about it. Allah despises slander and bad opinion of your believing brothers. What then does He think of boldness in attributing a false statement, false belief or lie to the Companions of the Messenger of Allah?
 
As He said,
 

إِذْ تَلَقَّوْنَهُ بِأَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَتَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِكُم مَّا لَيْسَ لَكُم بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَتَحْسَبُونَهُ هَيِّنًا وَهُوَ عِندَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمٌ

 

When you welcomed it with your tongues, and spoke with your mouths that which you had no knowledge of, and you deemed it an easy matter while with Allah it was grievous. (24:15)

 
As long as you can find a way to speak well and act well of people whether or not they are present. Do not do anything else. Allah said,
 

وَقُولُواْ لِلنَّاسِ حُسْناً

Speak to men good words. (2:83)

 
Know that Allah chose companions for His Prophet, honoured them with the noblest mark of honour and robed them in the robe of support, victory and the correct keeping of his company in desirable and undesirable situations. He made the tongue of His Prophet speak about their virtues, excellent qualities and marks of honour; so believe in their love, mention their excellence, and beware of the company of people of innovation, for it will make disbelief and clear loss grow in the heart. If the excellence of some of them is not clear to you, then leave them to the Knower of the Unseen, and say, 'O Allah, I love anyone You and Your Messenger love, and I hate anyone You and Your Messenger hate.' There is no obligation beyond that.

Imam Sadiq as

This was already addressed in similar topic you’ve created, from which you took the above. Our stance is clear on the Sahaba. There were also the Imams’ companions, who we also value utmostly. 

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3 minutes ago, power said:

There is error in your reasoning, history hadiths does not favour your unsound reasoning. 

 

I know what is history.

And I know how Imam Ali lived his life with sahaba.

So that is enough clear to me. I know there is differences but not as you present.

Do think imam will generalise Tabbarah . Common brother Imams were model of ethics and spirituality.

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3 minutes ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

You are not a marja’ to issue your verdicts on religious matters. Your personal opinions don’t mean much in regard to religious matters. 

This was already addressed in similar topic you’ve created, from which you took the above. Our stance is clear on the Sahaba. There were also the Imams’ companions, who we also value utmostly. 

Brother I to be frank enough.I don't feel the Imams would do Tabbarah as we today do.

Imams were bearer of willayah and had best model of ethics.I may say one of the important difference in ordinary people and Imams is their highest level of ethics they had. Do it doesn't fit that Imam would do Tabbarah we some of us feel.Becsuse Imams were to guide those who erred and not do Tabbarah.

Don't devalue Imam to ordinary level .

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On 5/22/2020 at 6:42 PM, Hadi5 said:

I know what is history.

And I know how Imam Ali lived his life with sahaba.

So that is enough clear to me. I know there is differences but not as you present.

Do think imam will generalise Tabbarah . Common brother Imams were model of ethics and spirituality.

Bibi Fatima (sa) cried for six months on her father's grave complaining of injustices that her family had endured. For me personally that speaks volumes about the so- called so and so!

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