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In the Name of God بسم الله
user5000

How do you know god exists?

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Just now, khamosh21 said:

understandbly... i used to have faith as well, and i would argue the same when i believed...

however im assuming claims of the Quran, i should be able to verify them independently to an extent.

e.g. We use intellect to prove Quran's claim of Tawheed

We use science to verify scientific claims...

im trying to use some history to attempt and verify historical claims...

is that not logical?

Are you serious? How is anything you stated previously proving that God did not send messengers to all people? This is something you can't disprove no matter how hard you try. From my very fallible lens, I see monotheistic religions going bad, embracing paganism, whilst from yours you see the opposite. We need evidence to believe in your claim but frankly, you can never prove nor disprove it. Thus the logical thing to do would be to assess the Quran in a way you are eligible to assess it! To assess history with absolute certainty, from a stance of disbelief in the Quran, would require you to be an immortal all-encompassing being! 

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3 minutes ago, A_A said:

Are you serious? How is anything you stated previously proving that God did not send messengers to all people? This is something you can't disprove no matter how hard you try. From my very fallible lens, I see monotheistic religions going bad, embracing paganism, whilst from yours you see the opposite. We need evidence to believe in your claim but frankly, you can never prove nor disprove it. Thus the logical thing to do would be to assess the Quran in a way you are eligible to assess it! To assess history with absolute certainty, from a stance of disbelief in the Quran, would require you to be an immortal all-encompassing being!

Thanks for your reply, it might be better than to argue with me as you would with a non-believer i.e. no need to bring verses which can't be independently verified.

At least with science and intellect there is an attempt to verify. History is much more difficult topic for ppl to agree on. Muslims and Shias can barely agree on history among themselves, can't really expect them to agree on anything before that.

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Adding to this thread, I created a separate post but thought it'd be better I contribute to this one as well

 ________________

I've been having a discussion with another forum member on here regarding a video I came across by Dr. Robert Sapolsky.

So far this seems to be the most rational explanation put forth explaining the creation/role of religion and a higher power within humans, from a biological/evolutionary perspective.

As the saying goes "its all in your head" ..... maybe it actually is?  

I think disputing this worldview is a necessary aspect of any effective rebuttal against agnosticism/atheism.

What are your thoughts?

Quick 3 minute clip: 

 

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7 hours ago, user5000 said:

Adding to this thread, I created a separate post but thought it'd be better I contribute to this one as well

 ________________

I've been having a discussion with another forum member on here regarding a video I came across by Dr. Robert Sapolsky.

So far this seems to be the most rational explanation put forth explaining the creation/role of religion and a higher power within humans, from a biological/evolutionary perspective.

As the saying goes "its all in your head" ..... maybe it actually is?  

I think disputing this worldview is a necessary aspect of any effective rebuttal against agnosticism/atheism.

If it is “all in your head”, then so if this statement itself “all in your head”. 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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On 5/14/2020 at 1:23 PM, hasanhh said:

How do l know?

All the created ayats outside my window.

How do I know?

Because things have happened to me that I cannot explain rationally. Things that people will never believe, but that I swear happened.

1. I was flat broke and out of gasoline in 2006. I had absolutely no cash on me. I decided to get my Triple A card out of my wallet to get an emergency 2.5 gallons of gas to get me the half a mile back to home. Inside my wallet was a $10 bill that hadn't been there previously, otherwise I would have stopped for gas.

2. Just recently I put my prayer rug away for the night after Isha. I woke up at 6:30am and it was rolled out on my floor, facing Qiblah.


That's just two

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4 hours ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

How do I know?

Because things have happened to me that I cannot explain rationally. Things that people will never believe, but that I swear happened.

1. I was flat broke and out of gasoline in 2006. I had absolutely no cash on me. I decided to get my Triple A card out of my wallet to get an emergency 2.5 gallons of gas to get me the half a mile back to home. Inside my wallet was a $10 bill that hadn't been there previously, otherwise I would have stopped for gas.

2. Just recently I put my prayer rug away for the night after Isha. I woke up at 6:30am and it was rolled out on my floor, facing Qiblah.


That's just two

Or it could be proof of poor memory.

Edited by eThErEaL

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3 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Things that people will never believe

 

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Because my memory isn't that poor.

I'd know if I got out of bed and laid my prayer rug out on the floor. I'd also know if I had money in my wallet.

I get that you don't want to believe in God (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) because then you might have to change your lifestyle, but I'm not making this claim to try and minister to you. I'm making it because it happened to me and the reality of what that implies scares me half to death.

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3 hours ago, Abdul-Hadi said:

Because my memory isn't that poor.

maybe it is, how would you know?

Quote

I'd know if I got out of bed and laid my prayer rug out on the floor. I'd also know if I had money in my wallet.

you wouldn’t know.  Memory fails.  Memory is sometimes even self created.  Memory or lack thereof is not something you can rely on for knowing the “ultimate truth“.  

Quote

I get that you don't want to believe in God (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) because then you might have to change your lifestyle, but I'm not making this claim to try and minister to you. I'm making it because it happened to me and the reality of what that implies scares me half to death.

  I don’t “believe” in God.  I don’t have to since I know that God is.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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I am having the following argument with an atheist. Allah, Who is Perfect and Needless and Omniscient, creates. Creation implies a purpose, a purpose implies a need. Allah created man to know and serve Him. According to the atheist, this entire sequence is self-refuting, since the Perfect, Needless, and Omniscient One would not have a need to create anything, since creation implies a relationship between the Creator and created that involves interdependence and thus results in a less-than-perfect Deity. Does anyone have a good refutation of this line of argument?

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On 5/15/2020 at 2:46 AM, user5000 said:

Where is the proof that god exists,

God does not exist. God is No thing.

On 5/15/2020 at 2:46 AM, user5000 said:

why does causation, existence, and all that is unexplainable have to be a god, rather than something unknown.

Ok, it is unknown, because nobody knows it, how can you define nothing.
That which does not have any color, taste, smell, temperature, form, nothingness is beyond your sense organs.

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1 hour ago, Shahrukh K said:

Ok, it is unknown, because nobody knows it, how can you define nothing.
That which does not have any color, taste, smell, temperature, form, nothingness is beyond your sense organs.

Indeed, we call the unknown “God”.  We do so because it is supposed to be a more radical way of acknowledging that we do not know the ultimate source of reality.  We say that the ultimate source of reality is not known to be limited and not even known to be unlimited.  We are so radical in our unknowing of ultimate reality that we free ourselves from the belief that it is limited and we also free ourselves from the belief that it is unlimited. A Muslim is supposed to be a radical Atheist, not a an ordinary atheist.  Ordinary Atheism doesn’t really cut it.

Edited by eThErEaL

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On 6/13/2020 at 11:25 AM, Northwest said:

interdependence

god existed before creation thus was not dependent on creation and this did not change after creation however creation was dependent and always will be dependent on the creator as the creation only exists due to the creator.

1 way dependence, not 2 way.

On 6/13/2020 at 11:25 AM, Northwest said:

purpose, a purpose implies a need

the need is that of the creation for the creator, not the other way around.

God has unlimited power and it is only natural that creation is born from that.

 

this atheist like many is just a wise guy trying to play with words so don't bother arguing

 

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