Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Living in the west

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Basic Members

Salam aleykoum,

I want to know if it's considered a sin to hide your faith in front of strangers if you live in a western country (for example because you fear losing your job)

I also want to know your personal opinions on sisters who don't wear hijab in the west for the same reasons (fear of losing their jobs, fear of having less opportunities in work and studies etc), do you think this sisters are condemned to hell even if they pray, fast, give charity, have good manners etc ?

Thank you in advance for any replies

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Helper
54 minutes ago, sya said:

Salam aleykoum,

I want to know if it's considered a sin to hide your faith in front of strangers if you live in a western country (for example because you fear losing your job)

I also want to know your personal opinions on sisters who don't wear hijab in the west for the same reasons (fear of losing their jobs, fear of having less opportunities in work and studies etc), do you think this sisters are condemned to hell even if they pray, fast, give charity, have good manners etc ?

Thank you in advance for any replies

Salam,

Islamically speaking you can hide your faith out of fear, whether your condition is dire enough is up to you to know. as far as not wearing hijab is concerned there is no doubt Hijab is wajib, as for the condemned to hell part, Allah promises in the Quran that the tiniest of good deeds will be reward so the good deeds will definitely have their rewards Allah is the most merciful and finds excuses to reward his followers. I wish you health and peace.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

You can remove hijab if the choice is life or death, but it would be better to relocate to a safer place if possible. 

It is equivalent to asking whether it is ok to steal to avoid starvation.

Edited by notme
Typo
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

:ranting: l'm dissappointed. You know a better answer than this:"

4 hours ago, starlight said:

I believe the rule is that if you are living in a place and you can't follow your religion there for any reason then you should migrate to another country or city where you practise your religion.

Ayat 39:10 for one.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
14 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Ayat 39:10

Thank you and here is verse 39:10

Proclaim (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him), “O my slaves who have accepted faith! Fear your Lord; for those who do good deeds in this world, is goodness (in return); and Allah's earth is spacious; it is the steadfast who will be paid their full reward, without account.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member
3 minutes ago, starlight said:

Thank you and here is verse 39:10

Proclaim (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him), “O my slaves who have accepted faith! Fear your Lord; for those who do good deeds in this world, is goodness (in return); and Allah's earth is spacious; it is the steadfast who will be paid their full reward, without account.”

4:97 was the Ayat l was looking for. This is which interpretation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
  • Basic Members
On 5/13/2020 at 4:23 AM, sya said:

Salam aleykoum,

I want to know if it's considered a sin to hide your faith in front of strangers if you live in a western country (for example because you fear losing your job

 

No, I dont think so 

 

On 5/13/2020 at 4:23 AM, sya said:

I also want to know your personal opinions on sisters who don't wear hijab in the west for the same reasons (fear of losing their jobs, fear of having less opportunities in work and studies etc), do you think this sisters are condemned to hell even if they pray, fast, give charity, have good manners etc ?

Thank you in advance for any replies

I cant give an oppinion without knowing the person or just make general oppinion. Anyway I have never met anyone who leave hijab because of job. 

But I wont condem they will go to hell !! We muslims are taught to solve and discuss under four eyes with علم (knowledge) we have, and to present ourself with a good sample for her (telling others to do without practicing for ourself is نفاق )If we can not, then pray and pray.. Saying something like they will go to hell to a person who dont wear hijab or who leave their hijab wont solve a problem but just causing a disunity among the ummah. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam sis.


Intention plays a big role so only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows who will go Hell or not.

However, that doesn’t mean we abuse what is ordained for us. I live in the West, started wearing hijab at 17 and face hate crimes (especially now, corona has made people weird :hahaha:). But I know in the future if it was to prevent me from a job then (ideally Insha’Allah) I wouldn’t care. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) provides sustenance.

I used to work as a waitress before I wore hijab and then put it on and I felt I wasn’t able to practice my faith (ironically even though it was a “Muslim” owned restaurant). So I quit because my social hijab was being hindered. It’s hard but if it was easy wouldn’t we all be going heaven? Put your trust in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to provide for you in all departments of life.

Insha’Allah soon we won’t have to be pressured to gentrify ourselves to fit in.

Edited by Mariam17
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 minutes ago, adi_a said:

Anyway I have never met anyone who leave hijab because of job. 

In many western countries It can be a problem finding a job as a hijabi. I have a friend who just started her own business. She use to wear hijab but took it of in order to get more costumers. I think some entrepreneur consultant advised her to do that. It is like there is a pressure on Muslims not to take religion seriously.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
5 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

In many western countries It can be a problem finding a job as a hijabi. I have a friend who just started her own business. She use to wear hijab but took it of in order to get more costumers. I think some entrepreneur consultant advised her to do that. It is like there is a pressure on Muslims not to take religion seriously.

I live in Indonesia, a sunni majority country. Wearing hijab (or not to wear) is not an issue. However some sisters (even fee of those Ahlulbayt follower) do that for reasons like; 1.want to looks "progressive or modern" muslims, or 2. according to their islamic education hijab is middle eastern culture and not something essential in Islam (they said that Jews, Christian, Majusi, Yazidis,etc who live in middle east also wear veil), or 3.they are just not religious muslim. 

More religious knowledge needed when talk with (2), 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, adi_a said:

1.want to looks "progressive or modern"

Does that mean that hijab couldn't be "progressive or modern?" I think it depends on how you arrange it, what colors or motives it has on it.

8 hours ago, adi_a said:

hijab is middle eastern culture

To day maybe, but in previous times it has been the culture on all continents. Yes also in other religions than Islam, but for the same reasons.

8 hours ago, adi_a said:

3.they are just not religious muslim. 

Many non-practicing Muslims wear hijab for different reasons like culture, fashion, fitting in, belonging to a group.
There are also practicing Muslims who doesn't wear it because in their interpretation of the Quranic verses regarding hijab it is not Wajib. Only Mustahab or even just Mubah. It is a matter of debate because the Quran doesn't directly tell women to cover the hair. Only indirectly. Then it becomes a question of what your marja or some other scholar says.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
8 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

To day maybe, but in previous times it has been the culture on all continents. Yes also in other religions than Islam, but for the same reasons.

Completely agree with this statement.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
On 8/9/2020 at 9:19 PM, Revert1963 said:

Does that mean that hijab couldn't be "progressive or modern?" I think it depends on how you arrange it, what colors or motives it has on it.

 

I know some sisters can dress good with hijab, but those who say it usually want to dress like westerner and they dont believe hijab is essential in Islam. 

On 8/9/2020 at 9:19 PM, Revert1963 said:

To day maybe, but in previous times it has been the culture on all continents. Yes also in other religions than Islam, but for the same reasons.

Many non-practicing Muslims wear hijab for different reasons like culture, fashion, fitting in, belonging to a group.
There are also practicing Muslims who doesn't wear it because in their interpretation of the Quranic verses regarding hijab it is not Wajib. Only Mustahab or even just Mubah. It is a matter of debate because the Quran doesn't directly tell women to cover the hair. Only indirectly. Then it becomes a question of what your marja or some other scholar says.

Thats true, this is a complex issue and again when speaking with someone, then we need to understand their point, as well as to understand the marja, or scholars they follow, cultural background and so on and so on. Religious non middle eastern muslima who dont wear it will usually see it as cultural things than religious duties. 

I am at the point to respect my sisters decission either to wear it or not. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Just now, adi_a said:

I know some sisters can dress good with hijab, but those who say it usually want to dress like westerner and they dont believe hijab is essential in Islam.

What I was thinking about is that there is this narrative that Hijab is backwards, conservative and oppressive to women, but does it have to bee that way? In my country in Europe in the 70's, believe it or not, wearing a headscarf was a sign of women's liberation. Often associated with particular colors such as purple or a tie and dye pattern. It went out of fashion by the 1980's though, but it show that these connotations can change over time. Whether you see the Hijab as "progressive or modern" is a question of how you define those words. One could argue that protecting one self from sexual objectification is progressive and that standing up for justice and against oppression and Islamophobia is progressive.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
On 5/12/2020 at 3:23 PM, sya said:

Salam aleykoum,

I want to know if it's considered a sin to hide your faith in front of strangers if you live in a western country (for example because you fear losing your job)

I also want to know your personal opinions on sisters who don't wear hijab in the west for the same reasons (fear of losing their jobs, fear of having less opportunities in work and studies etc), do you think this sisters are condemned to hell even if they pray, fast, give charity, have good manners etc ?

Thank you in advance for any replies

It is a sin to do nifaq(hypocrisy). Like if someone directly asks you if you muslim and you say 'No' even though you are (except if your life is in danger which doesn't apply in most work situations in the West), or you pretend to be another religion just to 'get along' at work. At the same time, you don't have to 'volunteer' information about yourself. I always tell brothers and sisters don't talk about religion at all when you are being interviewed for a job, talk about your education, experience, and qualifications for that job. The exception to this would be if you are being interviewed by an Islamic School or Institution. 

Also, I always encourage brothers and sisters to do some investigation on a company before applying. You have some companies in the US, for example ___, __, etc, who which are owned and run by Right Wing Evangelical Christians. Don't waste your time applying at these places. Either they won't hire you, because you are muslim, which is illegal but easy to get around this law when you have good lawyers, or if you are hired you will never advance beyond a very low level. You need to do research on the upper management and ownership of a company before you apply. If they have a Evangelical, Hard Core Zionist,  or White Nationalist bent, avoid them (and try not to consume their products if you can avoid it). I took the names of the companies out so not to get ShiaChat into legal trouble, but a quick google search will probably help you figure it out. If brothers and sisters want to ask me about a specific company, I can send you a pm if I know anything specifically about them. 

As for sisters who don't wear hijab, I am not going to judge anyone. Only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows their real situation, but in most cases taking off the hijab will not help them, it will only increase their sins. This is because if they are taking off their hijab to hide the fact that they are muslim, their bosses and coworkers will find out in another way. What alot of companies run by racists are now doing is scheduling company lunches during Shahr Ramadan. They keep track of who is eating and who is not eating. They can also tell by someones name, their facebook, instagram accounts, etc. Even if a sister took off her hijab, to hide the fact that she is muslima would be a major project in this day and age, since your employer has so much information about you already, that they don't need the hijab to be able to tell. If they want to discriminate against you because of their faith, they will do it. Taking off the hijab will not stop this from happening. Also, you may lose opportunities because of the hijab, but this is not really a loss since someone who will discriminate against you simply because you wear hijab is not someone you want to work for anyway. The vast majority of employers don't care about hijab or no hijab, they care how well you do your job. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
  • Basic Members
On 5/12/2020 at 3:23 PM, sya said:

Salam aleykoum,

I want to know if it's considered a sin to hide your faith in front of strangers if you live in a western country (for example because you fear losing your job)

I also want to know your personal opinions on sisters who don't wear hijab in the west for the same reasons (fear of losing their jobs, fear of having less opportunities in work and studies etc), do you think this sisters are condemned to hell even if they pray, fast, give charity, have good manners etc ?

Taqiyyah is one thing . But not observing the basic laws of Islam is another thing. I have friends all around the world (West, Asia, Europe, Australia) who are doing jobs alongside wearing hijabs. Some of them are doctors and engineers too.

You have to keep your faith strong. Hijab is an identity of Muslim women. There is no valid reason to believe that it will hinder your social status, jobs, security etc.

Racism you may face, and if it's so severe that you are worried about your safety, then it's obligatory to move to a safer region. But that can never justify 'hiding your beliefs' by avoiding wearing hijab. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 5/13/2020 at 5:43 AM, Revert1963 said:

Ideally yes, but there might be practical reasons why this is not an option. Friends, family and economy may hold people back.

Also, how in the first place would some other country allow you to migrate to that country permanently? 

Say, a white convert from US or say France wishes to become Irani citizen and live in Iran permanently because he thinks that is obligatory on him as he cannot practise Islam there, how would he practically do this? Does Iran (or other Islamic countries) grant citizenship or atleast indefinite lifetime visa for this purpose ? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest My opinion

No one needs to know I’m Muslim, particularly if they ask. People who want to know what religion I am are typically trying to gauge my ethnicity without asking me directly or trying to convert me somehow to their faith. I just say I believe in God and leave it at that.

And for the people who are claiming that hijab doesn’t lead to discrimination based on religion in of itself (and if someone’s going to discriminate, they’ll discriminate regardless) then you probably haven’t lived in the US or are a man. Hijab isn’t just hijab anymore—hijabis are associated with narrow-mindedness and rude cultural attitudes, particularly in the last wave/influx of recent hijabi immigrants to my part of town. 

I live in a friendly, predominantly white city, and the hijabis were such an embarrassment—letting their kids run around, they constantly spoke rudely with everyone, and constantly yelled at their kids with insane harshness. One woman pushed her very young daughter who grabbed her leg, like all kids do because they aren’t very tall, in front of everyone and people were mortified but didn’t say anything because she obviously was going to fight with people and was not “reading a room”. Then the same people wonder why they are being “discriminated” against. 

Hijabis typically had very strange and segregated attitudes that they felt weren’t a problem until it was convenient for them, so when non-Muslims avoided them for being weird, they thought they were being discriminated because they were Muslim.

The hijab calls attention to yourself, and not the good kind. Also, the Quran doesn’t directly state women should wear a rigid dress code—it’s sad to see that women are being told to dress a certain rigid way because men won’t control themselves. They say that women wore hijab back then—but so did men wear something on their head, but this was because of the heat. Throughout the years, they took that supposed hijab and mandated it with justifications and many other Muslims don’t value research or critical thinking—it’s like a word-of-mouth kind of like how Jewish men wear their religious caps based on some widely accepted doctrine. Saying things women are a precious jewel that need to be protected—this inherently objectifies women in the same way that they twist their words and say that “Western clothing” (what does that even mean) objectifies women.

A non-hijabi like myself knows that I’m not going show my body parts, I’m just wearing what’s comfortable according to the weather, just like men. It’s hard to fathom a religious law that justifies blatant hate and fear for all things feminine and passes it off as religion. Blaming women for how stupid men in some cultures act.

You should also know in the US, they don’t raise their sons to gawk at women like they do in other parts of the world. So therefore, you can’t say that it’s the nature of men to be aroused by women if they don’t cover themselves. It sounds like those men are just perverts, but no, it’s a woman who is sinning, not the man for being rude by looking at a non-hijabi woman. (Also, there are hijabi fetishes, so exactly how does the hijab protect women?) 

As a woman living in the US, I don’t get looked at for wearing normal clothes, but hijabis and men with big beards are always looked at differently because people are scared of them and they are rude to everyone. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators
39 minutes ago, Guest My opinion said:

letting their kids run around, they constantly spoke rudely with everyone, and constantly yelled at their kids with insane harshness. One woman pushed her very young daughter who grabbed her leg, like all kids do because they aren’t very tall, in front of everyone and people were mortified but didn’t say anything because she obviously was going to fight with people and was not “reading a room”.

Lolz, I am sure hijab is the culprit here.

40 minutes ago, Guest My opinion said:

They say that women wore hijab back then—but so did men wear something on their head, but this was because of the heat.

All the scholars and Ayatullahs must be very dull to not know this key fact.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
4 hours ago, Anonymous-Male said:

Also, how in the first place would some other country allow you to migrate to that country permanently? 

Say, a white convert from US or say France wishes to become Irani citizen and live in Iran permanently because he thinks that is obligatory on him as he cannot practise Islam there, how would he practically do this? Does Iran (or other Islamic countries) grant citizenship or atleast indefinite lifetime visa for this purpose ? 

As far as I know there are many foreigners living in Iran. A large number is refugees from Afghanistan. Often these Afghans work as unskilled laborers at low wages. There is also a large number of foreign howza-e-students (sorry I just had to put that euphonic ye in there :grin: ) When I visited Iran some people spoke to me in Persian because the thought I was a Howsa student because I dressed more religious than the average tourist. People can study howsa for many years.
I some cases the Iranian government would also consider western emigrants as assets such as sister Marzieh Hashemi from the US who work as a News anchor at Press TV. She was of cause married to an Iranian expat, but from the experience I have with Iranian expats that might not be the best recommendation.
Iran also has a repatriation scheme for expats with some European countries, Canada and Australia. Politicians in some of those countries might even want to repatriate converts to Islam in order to make their countries "islamfree zones." Whether Iran would accept that is an other question.
Otherwise i think that if people have a job and could provide fore them selves and of cause obey the laws, rules and regulations of the country I don't think the Iranian government would object to people migrating there. 
But of cause if converts to Islam expect Iran to be the perfect Islamic society then they may be in for a disappointment. There is a large segment of the population that is either non-religious or secular. Especially in cities like Tehran.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
49 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:


But of cause if converts to Islam expect Iran to be the perfect Islamic society then they may be in for a disappointment. There is a large segment of the population that is either non-religious or secular. Especially in cities like Tehran.

Both converts and Western Muslims have this misconception of Muslim-Societies of "Muslim Countries" being these perfect havens where all is well, the lakes are flowing with Zam-Zam water and everyone is dutiful in terms of morality. 

The difference is in western countries things like: Bars/taverns, Clubs, Discos, Swinger Places, Massage Parlors, Brothels are all open and in plain sight.

In Muslim countries, all of the aforementioned things are simply behind closed doors and to find everything you just need to ask around. 

As for morality. There's corruption and Immorality everywhere. A significant amount in Muslim countries as well. They are only Muslim by name and only Muslim because a lot of people who identify as "Muslim" live there and have some instance of Shariah law here and there albeit never enforced like Pakistan.

Once a family friend based in Chicago asked me if He should move his sons and daughters to Pakistan from America to "raise them better". I told him they'l be raised much better in America than Pakistan any day. And explained all this to him.

Wasalam.

Edited by El Cid
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, El Cid said:

they'l be raised much better in America than Pakistan any day.

I think that is a generalisation. There are many Pakistanis who emigrated to US but then they realised how completely surrounded they were by a kafir society full of filth that they returned to Pakistan soon. 

I'm not saying Pakistan is a religious society, and there can be situations where a person may come closer to Islam by living in US than Pakistan, but this cannot be a rule. Both countries have their strong points, but if someone is migrating from Pakistan to a kafir country, he would have to bring up a very strong reason and be absolutely sure that his faith and that of his children will not get negatively affected in the least bit because of forsaking a Muslim country.

If one has even a shed of doubt that practicing Islam will be harder in US than Pakistan, then immigration would be haram. I personally cannot see how someone can find it easier to be a Muslim in US than Pakistan. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, Anonymous-Male said:

I think that is a generalisation. There are many Pakistanis who emigrated to US but then they realised how completely surrounded they were by a kafir society full of filth that they returned to Pakistan soon. 

I'm not saying Pakistan is a religious society, and there can be situations where a person may come closer to Islam by living in US than Pakistan, but this cannot be a rule. Both countries have their strong points, but if someone is migrating from Pakistan to a kafir country, he would have to bring up a very strong reason and be absolutely sure that his faith and that of his children will not get negatively affected in the least bit because of forsaking a Muslim country.

If one has even a shed of doubt that practicing Islam will be harder in US than Pakistan, then immigration would be haram. I personally cannot see how someone can find it easier to be a Muslim in US than Pakistan. 

No it isn't. What exactly is a Kafir country where everyone is not a Muslim? That's it? Does that make automatically everyone in said country a bad person? How many people who are Muslim in name are spreading corruption and filth of all kinds there in Pakistan right now with the country having a wealth gap of more than 60-70% with that large majority being people who are on a lower income spectrum with the rest of the country being Middle-class where the middle class is sinking. The rest are all Upper-middle class and then elites. Those are the people who I'll say will have a much more comfortable time living in Pakistan but just for the purpose of faith you'll find all sorts of sinful activities going around in these societies/schools/settings/etc as well. The only thing that makes these countries appear sinful to you is the open-ness of vice. That's it. Everything vice related is in Pakistan as well in just as abundant forms but it's just not visible in open-ness. Another thing with open-ness is. When these things are out in the open, people are desentizied to them and don't care about them. I cannot tell you the large majority of foreign students I've encountered who have never seen a bar/disco before in their Muslim countries. It made them indulge and now they have fallen into all sorts of Haram activities whilst Muslims who have grown up around these things don't care at all about alcohol establishments or discos.

Then there's the issue of the Desi-Complex where people try to out-compete Westerns in vice. If a western guy is at a club, the Desi-guy will want to be in the VIP section to out-do him. Western countries are far better off living in than Sunni Hell-Holes any-day. I'd rather my kids be bulled for being Muslims than killed/verbally abused for being Shi'a anyday.

Last thing I'll say is. If a person has faith and Iman. He'll be a Muslim Shia in any environment. Our Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) grew up in an environment which was Amsterdam on steroids. Drunken orgies near the Kabah and at festivals. People having sexual activities on the streets and in publics. Houses with Black flags asking people to come in and partake. Gambling and Alcohol everywhere. Prostitution and sexual slavery. No laws. Just vice and decadence all around. He(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was a Prophet but He(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the one we are suppose to follow regardless of our weaknesses. You can sin in a desert alone. You can sin in an environment like Iran or Saudi Arabia(Women are sexually assaulted in Hajj/Umrah btw in front of the Kabah. No one cares about this in that awful place). You can sin in an environment like Amsterdam. It's up to you to sin. Saying things like my society makes me want to committ sin is just weak excuses. Temptations are everywhere.

Edited by El Cid
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

 The simple point is that if someone feels that moving from Pakistan to US will make it difficult for him to avoid sin over there, or he will find it harder to practise Islam there, then it isn't permissible for him to move. 

I know people who migrated and then returned to Pakistan simply because of this reason. 

Your opinion about problems of Pakistan society compared to the better US life is totally irrelevant here, because every person has to make his own decision about where he finds that his faith is more secure. If you think you can be a better Muslim in US, then nobody is saying you must still leave. But there are many who do not feel they can be better Muslims in US than in Pakistan and this makes it incumbent on them to live in Pakistan. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant for other people. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
38 minutes ago, Anonymous-Male said:

 The simple point is that if someone feels that moving from Pakistan to US will make it difficult for him to avoid sin over there, or he will find it harder to practise Islam there, then it isn't permissible for him to move. 

I know people who migrated and then returned to Pakistan simply because of this reason. 

Your opinion about problems of Pakistan society compared to the better US life is totally irrelevant here, because every person has to make his own decision about where he finds that his faith is more secure. If you think you can be a better Muslim in US, then nobody is saying you must still leave. But there are many who do not feel they can be better Muslims in US than in Pakistan and this makes it incumbent on them to live in Pakistan. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant for other people. 

 

You disagreed with this statement "they'l be raised much better in America than Pakistan any day." which has to do raising children in the West. Then never talked about raising children in the West again.

Now you're bringing up people migrating and those weak minded people you met who Pakistan is such a haven for Islam for. Exactly what is your main issue here that you're diverting statements?

Edited by El Cid
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I did not disagree with that statement. I said you made a generalisation.

You have a right to think that children may be better raised in US than in Pakistan, but you cannot extrapolate your own view and impose it on other people, who, like you, have their own right to believe that growing up in Pakistan is more Islamic than US.

You also do not have any right to insult such people by calling them weak-minded because some of them might be better in Allah's eyes than you and me.

If you find American society more Islamic than Pakistan, then who is stopping you from raising children there? 

But if someone finds Pakistani society more Islamic, then it is their right to believe this. Whether you like this or not is not relevant because you are answerable to Allah for your own actions. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members
13 hours ago, Guest My opinion said:

And for the people who are claiming that hijab doesn’t lead to discrimination based on religion in of itself (and if someone’s going to discriminate, they’ll discriminate regardless) then you probably haven’t lived in the US or are a man.

Yeah, right! You think I am a male and not living in the west?! Just so you know, I am a working woman too, proud of my hijab and in sha Allah, would never give it up for any cheap worldly gains!

Hijab is an obligatory dress code for Muslimah. If you aren't observing it, at least recognize this ruling.

Every  woman who considers herself as a Muhibbeen of Ahlul Bait should wear hijab. By the uncovered head of Zaynab s.a. in Sham, how can hijab not be an obligatory dress code for Muslimah!

Ask yourself how you would face Zaynab s.a. if you think otherwise.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest My opinion
4 hours ago, El Cid said:
5 hours ago, Anonymous-Male said:

 

No it isn't. What exactly is a Kafir country where everyone is not a Muslim? That's it? Does that make automatically everyone in said country a bad person? How many people who are Muslim in name are spreading corruption and filth of all kinds there in Pakistan right now with the country having a wealth gap of more than 60-70% with that large majority being people who are on a lower income spectrum with the rest of the country being Middle-class where the middle class is sinking. The rest are all Upper-middle class and then elites. Those are the people who I'll say will have a much more comfortable time living in Pakistan but just for the purpose of faith you'll find all sorts of sinful activities going around in these societies/schools/settings/etc as well. The only thing that makes these countries appear sinful to you is the open-ness of vice. That's it. Everything vice related is in Pakistan as well in just as abundant forms but it's just not visible in open-ness. Another thing with open-ness is. When these things are out in the open, people are desentizied to them and don't care about them. I cannot tell you the large majority of foreign students I've encountered who have never seen a bar/disco before in their Muslim countries. It made them indulge and now they have fallen into all sorts of Haram activities whilst Muslims who have grown up around these things don't care at all about alcohol establishments or discos.

You’re a legend. Thank you for speaking the truth, with a huge dose of common sense and rationality. 
 

And its true: people who have grown up around bars or clubs being available to them don’t go to them. I was born and raised in a suburban area in the US all my life, and I’ve never once drink alcohol here or been to a club. People, even non-Muslims, don’t care about clubbing and only certain people who hang out with the wrong crowd do that.
 

Also, Muslims who lived in Muslim countries all their lives go all out once they move here—I’ve see it myself, things that natives wouldn’t do here. A girl I know went on three dates and one day, and she told the white guy she was seeing (the second person that day) that she had a date with someone else. He cussed her out and called her a you-know-what. 
 

But the thing is that people who have never lived in non-Muslim countries have a warped view of life here because they believe only what they see on the news. They think that everyone is going to rave parties all the time and are engulfed in so much Haram, when in actuality life is pretty low-key, peaceful, and normal. The Muslims who emigrate from Muslim countries are the ones who go crazy and do all kinds of unimaginable Haram that even the non-Muslims don’t engage in. If all of these people lived here, they’d know that life is much better than living in some country that is only Muslim by name for their own benefit. 
 

The reason why separation of Church and State is a thing because of the reality we see today in Muslim countries—committing crime, killings, wealth gaps, tyranny, and awful living conditions for everyone all in the name of Islam. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest My opinion
12 hours ago, starlight said:

Lolz, I am sure hijab is the culprit here.

When you are wearing hijab, you should work to be extra nice and with impeccable behavior because you are an ambassador for the faith because that is a part of being Muslim. Like it or not, the majority of hijabis are weird and it’s the association that makes people hate Islam. This isn’t just a handful of a few people—these hijabis are rude with the majority of people, with permanent scowls on their faces, and then harp about supposed discrimination when being called out or not hired. Even many convert women who end up wearing hijab have some kind of weird superiority complex.

It’s the same with fundamentalist Christians who force their women to wear only skirts because pants are for boys and anyone who doesn’t adhere to a rigid dress code is a sinner.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest My opinion
1 hour ago, Ilm-seeker said:

Yeah, right! You think I am a male and not living in the west?! Just so you know, I am a working woman too, proud of my hijab and in sha Allah, would never give it up for any cheap worldly gains!

Good for you. I never said anything about worldly gains. I wear what is comfortable and rational, not because of worldly gains. I believe that God is rational and just. If the weather is blistering hot, does it make sense to wear layers of clothes? Sounds like hijab was demanded by weak men who can’t control themselves. The Quran talks about modesty, not hijab. Men don’t care about hair, they are attracted to the body shape, and again so what? Aren’t women attracted to men’s bodies? They should wear hijab too. 
 

1 hour ago, Ilm-seeker said:

 

Hijab is an obligatory dress code for Muslimah. If you aren't observing it, at least recognize this ruling.

Said fallible scholars and ayatollahs, based on hadith, not the Quran. Allah is direct and not shy to tell us what is Haram and Halal based on guesswork. Lying is Haram. Zina is Haram. Cheating is Haram, polytheism is Haram. You need to pray and fast.  If Hijab was a mandatory ruling, God would have said “observe hijab because hijab is mandatory” but it’s elusive on modesty for a reason, because modesty depends on the time and place, and I believe that is deliberate.
 

You can’t think of a good reason for hijab so all you can think of is “scholars accept this ruling, therefore it’s the truth.” Nope, some scholars even disagreed that hijab is mandatory. 
 

1 hour ago, Ilm-seeker said:

 

Ask yourself how you would face Zaynab s.a. if you think otherwise.

Ok, your rhetoric is not convincing because all of us will face and answer to God on the day of judgement. I know what you are trying to say but you should be careful about statements like this. 
 

1 hour ago, Ilm-seeker said:

Every  woman who considers herself as a Muhibbeen of Ahlul Bait should wear hijab. By the uncovered head of Zaynab s.a. in Sham, how can hijab not be an obligatory dress code for Muslimah!

Says you. Why would it be obligatory? How can it be? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, Guest My opinion said:

 

 

7 hours ago, Guest My opinion said:

The Muslims who emigrate from Muslim countries are the ones who go crazy and do all kinds of unimaginable Haram that even the non-Muslims don’t engage in.

If some Muslims are like that, it is forbidden for them to move to such a country like US in the first place where the opportunity to sin is so easily available to everyone, unlike a Muslim country where such opportunities are difficult. 

Hadith says not having an opportunity to sin is a blessing in its own right. 

Living in a Muslim country is a blessing of Allah....but Muslims living in non-muslim countries often find that hard to digest and tend to consider their own non-muslim cultures better than Muslim countries and bring excuses to justify this. 

If someone is forced by his circumstances to live in a non-muslim country but still remains steadfast in his faith, that is a great achievement and deserves big reward from Allah. But the ideal situation for a Muslim is that he is surrounded by a Muslim society, Muslim culture and is part and parcel with a Muslim nation. A Muslim cannot even be burried in a non-muslim graveyard, why should he then prefer to live in a non-Muslim land without justifiable and Islamically acceptable reasons? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...