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ZethaPonderer

Understanding the Sahaabas within the lens of both Shia and Sunni

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I've read a bit through this website here which I suspect is a Quranist Muslim website looking in the About Us section which talks about The Quranic Truth of The Sahaabas which I'll provide a link and quote the link if the website doesn't work

https://www.submission.org/Prophets_Sahaba.html

Now why would I bring a website like this. Because it discusses the underlying issue of UNDERSTANDING when trying to read through the History of Islam and understanding the people who interacted with Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) at the time who some became sworn enemies, others became loyal companions, and some became companions while having enmity against the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) from within based on the 80 battles that have been fought so far during his (SAW)'s lifetime.

Sahaaba from my understanding means "Companion". Therefore, Sahaabas of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and His Family (The Ahlul Bayt) means Companions of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and His Family (The Ahlul Bayt)

So what I came to my personal understanding when discussing the Sahaabas is the following in quotes based on the Respective Branches: Sunni and Shia,

Quote

Sunni Islam (Please NOTE: The following might be a bit too Salaafi inspired. I'm sure there are SOME Sunnis who don't agree with the Salaafi movement way of thinking when it comes to The Sahaabas):

1. Don't criticize nor curse The Sahaabas. From Ali to Abu Bakr to Umar to Uthman to Muawiyah to Abu Sufyan to Aisha. NO ONE amongst the Sahaaba should be criticized nor cursed. Why? Please look at no. 2

2. ALL Sahaabas were RIGHTLY GUIDED. Once a Person during Prophet Muhammad (SAW)'s time period recites The Shahaada (Statement of Faith) of Islam, END OF DISCUSSION. HE IS A MUSLIM. None of their past sins before matters nor their sins and mistakes afterwards when they became Muslims.

3. We as Human Beings are in NO POSITION to judge The Sahaabas AT ALL and shall NOT make any distinctions at all whether some were FAITHFUL or FAITHLESS. Because at least they have SEEN The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and His Family (The Ahlul Bayt). That alone is Honorable enough that the likes of Abu Sufyan, Hind, and Muawiya who recited The Shahaada of Islam should be mentioned in Honorifics. Their past sins against The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and His Family (The Ahlul-Bayt) DOESN'T MATTER.

4. Sunnis don't bother with The History of Sahaabas because under Sunni Islam they care MORE about preserving and fostering Unity from the Muslim Ummah. You can't distinguish between a Hypocrite and a Muslim. They ALL look the same and SEEM to practice and share the same faith under the banner of Islam. You can't read people's intentions nor their hearts. So why bother? If there's a Muslim Hypocrite so be it. He/She's still a Muslim. Let Allah be The Judge of his/her faith. We are in NO position to point fingers.

 

Quote

Shia Islam:

1. Criticize or Curse SOME Sahaabas of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Because we believe that Not ALL Sahaabas of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) WERE Sahaabas of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

2. Shias do their best at TRYING to make distinctions between The FAITHFUL and The FAITHLESS amongst The Sahaabas. Sahaabas are not perfect since they are Human Beings. Therefore, Human Beings make mistakes. Hence, Sahaabas despite being RIGHTLY GUIDED by The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) CAN make mistakes. It is important to acknowledge SOME of The Sahaabas mistakes before their Shahaada and after their Shahaada to become a better Muslim and hopefully not repeat the same mistake as them. Even if a person recites The Shahaada of Islam during Prophet Muhammad (SAW)'s time it doesn't make them a Muslim. What matters is the consistency of their actions, their practices, their loyalty, their sincerity, their steadfastness, and faith towards The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and His Family (The Ahlul Bayt).

3. Allah gave Human Beings Reason and Intellect. To deny such basic attributes of Humanity while researching and understanding The History of The Sahaabas to understand the History of Islam is most disingenuous to consider that Human Beings from the future are in NO POSITION to judge the Sahaabas. Through proper reason, intellect, and self-evident evidence through The Hadiths (Sahih and Mutawatir Graded) backed up by reasonable/credible scholars from not just The Shia Branch, but The Sunni Branch as well most Shias practice their due diligence to UNDERSTAND the Sahaabas for how FAITHFUL or FAITHLESS they were towards The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and His Family (The Ahlul Bayt). Shias are not perfect, but they try. Because they love and respect Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and The Ahlul Bayt that much. Therefore, it doesn't matter if a person simply SEEN The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), His Family, and recited The Shahaada of Islam. What matters if how FAITHFUL is He/She towards The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), The Ahlul Bayt, and practicing Islam after reciting The Shahaada till death? Then and only then would addressing them in Honorifics count if they were consistent, steadfast, sincere, and loyal to the Ahlul Bayt and The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

4. The Ummah may be divided, but the arrival of The Mahdi will reunite us all regardless. Shias would rather die or live in an island FAR FAR AWAY than live in a Muslim Ummah full of Muslims that only LOOK like Muslims on the outside, but on the inside they are NOT (AKA A Hypocrite). For them, it's a post apocalyptic bleak future for the fate of Islam.

 

I know that discussing the understanding of Sahaabas also requires establishing beliefs between both branches for what their understanding of The Ahlul Bayt is, but I want to keep my focus ONLY on the nature of understanding The Sahaabas given the topic.

Now that I got that out of my system, I want to now know WHO were the FAITHFUL Sahaabas under Shia Islam. Why? It might bridge some gaps between the two branches. List their names please and let me know if my personal understanding is a bit off or just silly.

Edited by Mahdavist
Please avoid copying large portions of text when links are available

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Many. Just to name a few: 

Salman Al Farsi

Abu dhar ghaffari

Abu ayub Ansari 

Miqdad

Bilal 

Ammar Yasir 

Awais Al Qurni 

Kumail bin ziyad

Uthman ibne Hunaif 

Sahl ibne Hunaif 

Maalik e ashtar

Jundab e azdi 

Hudayifah Yamani 

Khalid ibne Saeed

Qais ibne Saad

Maalik bin Nuwairah 

 

 

 

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On 5/10/2020 at 6:56 AM, ZethaPonderer said:

[Quran 48:29] "Muhammad - the messenger of God - and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves.

Saqeefa, the door, Fadak, murder of Uthman, Jamal, Siffeen, Neherwan, and eventually Kerbala, and I know I am missing many other instances where the above does not apply to who the Sunni call "sahaba".

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On 5/10/2020 at 8:55 AM, Anonymous-Male said:

Many. Just to name a few: 

Salman Al Farsi

Abu dhar ghaffari

Abu ayub Ansari 

Miqdad

Bilal 

Ammar Yasir 

Awais Al Qurni 

Kumail bin ziyad

Uthman ibne Hunaif 

Sahl ibne Hunaif 

Maalik e ashtar

Jundab e azdi 

Hudayifah Yamani 

Khalid ibne Saeed

Qais ibne Saad

Maalik bin Nuwairah 

 

 

 

Kumail is not a sahabi

AL ashtar was a muslim at time of prophet but did not see him so not a sahabi 

@ZethaPonderer

your idea is worthy of praise i.e let's find the common sahaba we both respect and build on that but in practical purposes the average 12er imami shia are only interested in the "faithful" sahaba  so long as it makes the supporters of abu bakr / umar look bad 

Classic example is Malik b nuwaira if he was such a faithful subject of Ali then why is that the most recorded opposition on his death is by his brother, umar and Abu qatada ?

 

For 12er shias almost all sahaba good or bad are largely irrelevant because

1 very few of their hadith depend on them unlike sunnis , most shia hadith rely on companions of later imams 

2 the concept of companionship is made largely irrelevant by imamate in their eyes , like who needs a old landline phone in age of smart phones 

That being said 12er imami scholars have compiled excellent biographies of these sahaba but they draw upon a lot of proto shia works and serve largely an academic purpose.

 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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:bismillah:

وَالسَّابِقُونَ الْأَوَّلُونَ مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالْأَنْصَارِ وَالَّذِينَ اتَّبَعُوهُمْ بِإِحْسَانٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا عَنْهُ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي تَحْتَهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدًا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct - Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment.

(9:100)

Let's look at 1 thing,

1. It doesn't say all the Muhajiren and Ansar, it says "the first forerunners [in the faith] AMONG the Muhajireen and the Ansar", not ALL of them.

وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُمْ مِنَ الْأَعْرَابِ مُنَافِقُونَ ۖ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ ۖ مَرَدُوا عَلَى النِّفَاقِ لَا تَعْلَمُهُمْ ۖ نَحْنُ نَعْلَمُهُمْ ۚ سَنُعَذِّبُهُمْ مَرَّتَيْنِ ثُمَّ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَذَابٍ عَظِيمٍ

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

And among those around you of the Bedouins are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. We will punish them twice [in this world]; then they will be returned to a great punishment.

(9:101)

Let's look at a few things

1. There were some of the Bedouins who were hypocrites.

2. It says "and [also] from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy", When Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says people of Madinah, he doesn't mean from the Ansar, he means from the Muhajiren and from the Ansar, otherwise he would have said "and also the Ansar". So Allah is saying some of them are hypocrites, so how are they all good? 

مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا ۖ سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِمْ مِنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ ۚ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنْجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ ۗ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُمْ مَغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds AMONG THEM forgiveness and a great reward.

(48:29)

Let's look at 1 thing,

1. " Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds AMONG THEM forgiveness and a great reward. " It says Allah has promised those AMONG THEM, not all of the Muhajiren and Ansar, only some.

Wassalam

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14 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Kumail is not a sahabi

AL ashtar was a muslim at time of prophet but did not see him so not a sahabi 

Salam just seeing prophet Muhammad (pbu) doesn't make anybody as Sahabi also there was Mushriks  like Abulahab & Abu Jahl that they saw him but they are not Sahaba also AbuSufayan & his family just accepted Islam to save their lives so he & his family are not from Sahaba.

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6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam just seeing prophet Muhammad (pbu) doesn't make anybody as Sahabi also there was Mushriks  like Abulahab & Abu Jahl that they saw him but they are not Sahaba also AbuSufayan & his family just accepted Islam to save their lives so he & his family are not from Sahaba.

I agree that is one view 

 but the technical definition of sahabi which is commonly accepted by sunnis atleast is 

1 saw the prophet 

2 was a Muslim 

3 died in state of islam 

All 3 are neccessary [ per ibn hajar I think ]

Abu sufyan b harb and tulaqa are the lowest grade of sahaba

Plus regardless of what definition you take the ones you hate the most Umar and abu bakr are still amongst the earliest and foremost muhajireen, so definitely sahabi.Now whether or not they died Muslim or not is a matter between them and God 

Saeed b mussayyib I think said that you have to attend a few ghazwas to be a sahabi , but that is his biased view and he deliberately excludes many great later converts to whom islam just reached later due to no fault of theirs

but even  amongst tulaqa  some were outstanding sahabi like abu sufyan b harith  and hashim b utba , they were great enemies of Prophet but later proved true and loyal friends 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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10 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

I have very high respect to the Sahaba of Prophet Muhammad (saws), all of them expect those that have been proven their hypocrisy or made innovations after Prophet.

True 

But sources differ as to who were hypocrites and made innovations as all these narrations rely on fallible narraters on both sides 

Quran does not take any names 

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5 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

True 

But sources differ as to who were hypocrites and made innovations as all these narrations rely on fallible narraters on both sides 

Quran does not take any names 

Yes, need to be very careful. 

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On 5/10/2020 at 2:55 PM, Anonymous-Male said:

Many. Just to name a few: 

Salman Al Farsi

Abu dhar ghaffari

Abu ayub Ansari 

Miqdad

Bilal 

Ammar Yasir 

Awais Al Qurni 

Kumail bin ziyad

Uthman ibne Hunaif 

Sahl ibne Hunaif 

Maalik e ashtar

Jundab e azdi 

Hudayifah Yamani 

Khalid ibne Saeed

Qais ibne Saad

Maalik bin Nuwairah 

 

 

 

Did these Sahabis get in trouble for being Shi’as? Like we’re they targetted, did any refuse to give a bayah? This would be good argument against the typical “Shi’ism was created by a Jew”.

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1 minute ago, Labbayka said:

Did these Sahabis get in trouble for being Shi’as? Like we’re they targetted, did any refuse to give a bayah? This would be good argument against the typical “Shi’ism was created by a Jew”.

I know the names of those list but interested to see whether or not they gave a bayah to the caliphs.

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41 minutes ago, Labbayka said:

Did these Sahabis get in trouble for being Shi’as? Like we’re they targetted, did any refuse to give a bayah? This would be good argument against the typical “Shi’ism was created by a Jew”.

But that's the issue 

Not giving bayah does not equal being an imami shia 

Forget shiaism if you want to go until details a lot of Sunni sahaba were jews too so u can make the argument that Sunni Sunni Islam was created by jews too 

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42 minutes ago, Labbayka said:

I know the names of those list but interested to see whether or not they gave a bayah to the caliphs.

If they did was it valid due to taqiyya?

The trump card to iron out any inconsistencies in the official narrative 

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59 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

No. What I mean is that we need to be very careful study this field without any biased attached. 

Very true 

That is why ideologically committed sunni or Shia scholars should be automatically be disqualified from drawing any conclusions based on evidence we have as it will color their judgment.

That's my main issue with rijal experts too.Infact when sunni scholars dismiss many shia narraters as having extreme Shia beliefs as liars THAT MAKES ME CRINGE as they at the same time accept Aisha [a liar that quran confirms ] as a reliable narrator and teacher.

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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