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Allah Seeker

313 Seeker's Grading System

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313 Seeker's Islamic Grading System

 

In order of strength:

 

League 1 - Quran:

  1. Clear Verses of the Quran (USED FOR RULING)
    1. Root Word Repeated  - Unanimous Meaning - Clearly Defined - Defined by Hadiths (see Hadith grading system below)
    2. Root Word Occurring Once - Clearly Defined - Defined by Hadiths
    3. Root Word Occurring Once - Clearly Defined - No Hadith Definition
    4. Root Word Repeated - Disunited Meaning -  Defined by Hadiths
  2. Unclear Verses (NOT TO BE USED FOR RULING)
    1. Root Word Repeated  - disunited meanings -  no Hadith definitions
    2. Root Word Occurring Once - not defined - no Hadith definitions

League 2 - Hadiths:

  1. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Repeated - Graded reliable in both - Prophet Mohamed
  2. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Repeated - Graded reliable in Shia and Unreliable/Ungraded in Sunni - Prophet Mohamed
  3. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Repeated - Ungraded/Unreliable in Both - Prophet Mohamed
  4. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Occurs once - Graded Reliable in Both - Prophet Mohamed
  5. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Occurs once - Graded reliable in Shia and Unreliable/Ungraded in Sunni - Prophet Mohamed
  6. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Occurs once - Ungraded/Unreliable in Both - Prophet Mohamed
  7. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Repeated - Graded reliable in both - Reliable Descendants
  8. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Repeated - Graded reliable in Shia and Unreliable/Ungraded in Sunni - Reliable Descendants
  9. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Repeated - Ungraded/Unreliable in Both - Reliable Descendants
  10. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Occurs once - Graded Reliable in Both - Reliable Descendants
  11. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Occurs once - Graded reliable in Shia and Unreliable/Ungraded in Sunni - Reliable Descendants
  12. Shia Books - Sunni Books - Occurs once - Ungraded/Unreliable in Both - Reliable Descendants
  13. Shia Books - Repeated - Graded reliable - Prophet Mohamed
  14. Shia Books - Repeated - Not Graded/Unreliable -  Prophet Mohamed
  15. Shia Books - Repeated - Graded Reliable - Reliable Descendants 
  16. Shia Books - Repeated - Not Graded/Unreliable - Reliable Descendants
  17. Shia Books - Occurs Once - Graded reliable - Prophet Mohamed
  18. Shia Books - Occurs Once - Not Graded/Unreliable -  Prophet Mohamed
  19. Shia Books - Occurs Once - Graded Reliable - Reliable Descendants 
  20. Shia Books - Occurs Once - Not Graded/Unreliable - Reliable Descendants
  21. Sunni Books - Repeated - Graded reliable - Prophet Mohamed
  22. Sunni Books - Repeated - Not Graded/Unreliable -  Prophet Mohamed
  23. Sunni Books - Repeated - Graded Reliable - Reliable Descendants 
  24. Sunni Books - Repeated - Not Graded/Unreliable - Reliable Descendants
  25. Sunni Books - Occurs Once - Graded reliable - Prophet Mohamed
  26. Sunni Books - Occurs Once - Not Graded/Unreliable -  Prophet Mohamed
  27. Sunni Books - Occurs Once - Graded Reliable - Reliable Descendants 
  28. Sunni Books - Occurs Once - Not Graded/Unreliable - Reliable Descendants

League 3 - Injeel/Gospels

League 4 - Taurat/Old Testament

League 5 - Other World Religions

 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

Quran Grading Discussion:

 

Summary: 

  • We are ordered only use clear verses/words as proofs
  • If we use unspecific words/verses, then we are actually considered bad people

 

Proof:

"It is He who has sent down to you, the Book; in it are verses precise  ( مُّحْكَمَاتٌ ) - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific (  مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ). As for those in whose hearts is deviation, they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation. And no one knows its interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding."  Ali 'Imran : 7

 

1) CLEAR  =  مُّحْكَمَاتٌ 

 

In the Quran the root word   ح ك م   is used 45 times, with meanings related to the English words:

  • Judged (Directly)
  • Perfect
  • Wise
  • Ruled
  • Clear

 

2) UNCLEAR  =  مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ

 

In the Quran the root word   ش ب ه    is used 12 times, with meanings related to the English words:

  • Metaphorical  (Not Direct)
  • Resembling
  • Allegorical
  • Similar

 

Example: 

  1. Direct: It is written that we should fast ( sawm ), and elsewhere in the Quran it is clearly defined what the word fasting refers to.
  2. Indirect: Some say that the words jilbab and khimar refers to covering of "head" and "hair". That is an indirect association, as the words "hair" and "head" are not there. 

 

Conclusion:

Assumptions and 'taking for granted' is not welcomed in Quran interpretations.

 

 

 

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:salam:

If you don't mind, could you put your own system to the test for the following list of Islamic notions and actions. Please do it in the same way that you have tried to do it for the hijab.

  1. The 313 being with the Mahdi {a}. I chose this because of the importance you give it, but it is not similar to the introduction of the hijab. So you can leave it for later.
  2. The wording of the adhan. I ask for this one because like the hijab it is very prominent in Islamic culture. I ask for the wording and not the act of adhan itself. Just like you don't question the notion of modesty but question its form.
  3. The number of rakah in each prayer. Similar to the above.
  4. The direction of the prayer. This should be similar to the case of hijab because it was a sudden change in the Muslim community. So a sahih hadith where the Prophet {s} announces it to the public would be required. No ahadith in private or reports of the Prophet {s} changing the direction of the prayer will be accepted. Stick to the same standard that you have for hijab.*

I am no an expert in hadith so it will be interesting for me to see what you can come up with.

*I know how I would respond to this if I were you.

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6 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

:salam:

If you don't mind, could you put your own system to the test for the following list of Islamic notions and actions. Please do it in the same way that you have tried to do it for the hijab.

  1. The 313 being with the Mahdi {a}. I chose this because of the importance you give it, but it is not similar to the introduction of the hijab. So you can leave it for later.
  2. The wording of the adhan. I ask for this one because like the hijab it is very prominent in Islamic culture. I ask for the wording and not the act of adhan itself. Just like you don't question the notion of modesty but question its form.
  3. The number of rakah in each prayer. Similar to the above.
  4. The direction of the prayer. This should be similar to the case of hijab because it was a sudden change in the Muslim community. So a sahih hadith where the Prophet {s} announces it to the public would be required. No ahadith in private or reports of the Prophet {s} changing the direction of the prayer will be accepted. Stick to the same standard that you have for hijab.*

I am no an expert in hadith so it will be interesting for me to see what you can come up with.

*I know how I would respond to this if I were you.

So how would you respond?

Don't forget to answer this question please.

I'll tell you my weaknesses and my strength in Islamic studies. My weaknesses is that I don't have access to many hadiths and I am not educated in the grading system. One of the things I look forward to the most during the advent of the 313, is the Shia hadith search engine. Now we can't do one, because many of our hadiths are not encouraged to be spread to non Shia for the sake of the Peace.

My strength in comparison to that is that due to Allah's gift to me, I know the Quran relatively well. 

So to tackle any of the topics above, we would best work as a team and let everyone gather the Hadiths on the issue that they can find. At the same time we can all fish for relevant ayat from the Quran, if there are any. 

Each of those ayat and ahadeeth can be plugged into this system above to get an overview of how high it is graded.

So to find the answers your want using this system, we would need to collect as many hadiths and verses as we can, and then list speaks for itself I believe. You or I wouldn't have to say much, other than ask the question, the way I did when I said "did the Prophet rule the hijab as mandatory?"

Hope you understand.

Thanks

PS: don't forget to tell me how you'd respond to your question. I'm curious. Thanks

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10 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

So how would you respond?

Don't forget to answer this question please.

I was referring to a minor flaw in what I asked not the whole question. 

You can't simply back out now. You challenged people on this forum to provide evidence for the hijab then you must subject yourself to the same challenge for all of your beliefs. It's only right. Otherwise you can't get annoyed with the forum members if you don't even attempt to do what you have asked them to do.

If you ca't answer all four, then why not only one? Give me evidence for the wording of the adhan from the Prophet himself {s}. No ahadith where a companion says how he heard someone reciting it or anything similar. Bring me a sermon in public where the prophet {s} recited it or taught it. Just one hadith.

You have a big advantage here because such a hadith could be readily available and I haven't done extensive research unlike what you claim to have done about hijab.

I don't think one hadith will task you too much.

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11 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

You challenged people on this forum to provide evidence for the hijab then you must subject yourself to the same challenge for all of your beliefs.

:D I don't mind if we work on it together step by step. Topic after topic. If you look at what I'm doing here in this forum, I'm doing almost nothing else. I don't mind challenging all these topics, and actually a brother made me enter the adhan discussion recently, even though I find it a bit boring and not important. It's not a big priority in my eyes, compared to other issues. But I'm willing to address every issue between heavens and earth till the day that I return to our Lord. So let's do it step by step together ok? There are literally infinite issues we can address, and I can never do all of them.

My previous hot topics in rank of importance to me were:

1 - Were the prophets infallible?

2 - is making dua to others than Allah permissible?

3 - is the earth a ball or flat?

4 - maybe some other issues I can't remember now.

Each one takes time and work.

So let's work on it together ok? 

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1 hour ago, 313 Seeker said:

:D I don't mind if we work on it together step by step. Topic after topic. If you look at what I'm doing here in this forum, I'm doing almost nothing else. I don't mind challenging all these topics, and actually a brother made me enter the adhan discussion recently, even though I find it a bit boring and not important. It's not a big priority in my eyes, compared to other issues. But I'm willing to address every issue between heavens and earth till the day that I return to our Lord. So let's do it step by step together ok? There are literally infinite issues we can address, and I can never do all of them.

My previous hot topics in rank of importance to me were:

1 - Were the prophets infallible?

2 - is making dua to others than Allah permissible?

3 - is the earth a ball or flat?

4 - maybe some other issues I can't remember now.

Each one takes time and work.

So let's work on it together ok? 

I am not asking for much. You are very busy here. Just give one hadith and take your time if you need to. Take a month, but bring one hadith.

Edited by Muhammed Ali

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3 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

:D I don't mind if we work on it together step by step.

My previous hot topics in rank of importance to me were:

1 - Were the prophets infallible?

2 - is making dua to others than Allah permissible?

3 - is the earth a ball or flat?

4 - maybe some other issues I can't remember now.

Each one takes time and work.

So let's work on it together ok? 

Hmm, I should think some of the questions raised for your consideration by bro. @Muhammed Ali should be of urgent interest and need for response by you since they affect your daily wajibaat, and, as you have declared, you do not take stuff from scholars in the herd fashion the rest of us do.  It should therefore be super urgent/already researched by you. Or do you have a system which also says: for stuff i have not researched, i rely on scholar x or urf or ... ?

Hijab doesn't directly affect you, being a male. Nor does the flat or roundness of the earth :einstein:

This is a learning experience for the rest of us following the topics too, so yalla dont be miserly about the info

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Salam, although the ideas/opinions of our brother are not befitting to our own worldview I think it is best to not be so hostile towards the brother and Inshallah while discussing such matters not take things personally, albeit they are personal, however, nonetheless in the context which is being discussed the aim is to merely understand each others perspective referring to the use of Ad hominems should not ever be considered. I believe that the challenge Mr. @Muhammed Ali raised was excellent and I look forward to working together and trying our dear brother's grading system.  

Edited by Mohammad313Ali

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8 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Salam, although the ideas/opinions of our brother are not befitting to our own worldview I think it is best to not be so hostile towards the brother and Inshallah while discussing such matters not take things personally, albeit they are personal, however, nonetheless in the context which is being discussed the aim is to merely understand each others perspective referring to the use of Ad hominems should not ever be considered. I believe that the challenge Mr. @Muhammed Ali raised was excellent and I look forward to working together and trying our dear brother's grading system.  

Has someone been hostile to him on this thread? I must have missed the posts or perhaps they were removed. I think it will be intellectually stimulating to see his responses to these questions (or, in my case, observe the discussion) given the dedication he has made to come up with a grading system, as well as his analysis on other issues or explain his stance.

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Salam Alaikum Everyone!

You have my permission and blessing for anyone to use/modify/improve this grading system in any shape, way or form you see as right, without informing me or giving me credit. All credit is due to Allah!

@Muhammed Ali @habib e najjaar

I don't see that I am obliged to use this grading system for everybody, as that is not possible. I can't do the work for everybody to solve all their issues! I plan to use it if I ever get into discussions again, to have a strong powerful tool to prove things without having to spend much time or effort in talking. If you are interested to see my input and support in using this very simple tool, or my general opinions, I would be more than honored to join you in any thread you see fit! Just tag me or mention me, and if Allah gives me life, I will hopefully answer you there. Otherwise, I will use this system to communicate an overview of points that I personally will discuss in the future God-Willing.

This tool is so good that I don't even need to discuss anymore!

If anybody wants to know my opinion on an Islamic matter, just use this tool and you will know exactly what I would think or say!

But chances are that I will discuss again some day in sha Allah, after having the second half of the month of Ramadan dedicated to Allah and my family, in sha Allah.

Wishing that all of you are fine and guided and ready for some major promotions! I might not go on this website at all for days or months at times, and if you for whatever reason want to reach me, brother @Muhammed Ali has my phone number, so contact him in that case. 

Happy Ramadan all! Keep me in your prayers, and with your permission, I would like to request a leave of absence from here. 

Lastly, I would like you to pray for me specifically that Allah loves me more than all of you! :woot: :respect::sign_merci::bye: 

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On 5/8/2020 at 4:56 PM, Mohammad313Ali said:

@313 Seeker In league 1, #2 Should be a Quranic verse backed with historical context.

historic context, as in hadiths?

League 1 #2 is all about unclear Quran verses that don't have hadith references to them.

I should add another league called the Zabour/Psalms

Thanks brother, hope all is well!

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