Prophet's wife in Qur'an?

[Kalepaceh]

[3] (And this also is noteworthy that) the Prophet had confided a matter to a wife in secret. Then, when she disclosed the secret (to another), and Allah informed the Prophet (of the disclosure of the secret), the Prophet made known (to the wife) part of it and overlooked part of it. So when the Prophet told her (of the disclosure), she asked, "Who informed you of this?" The Prophet said, "I was informed by Him Who knows everything and is All-Aware."⁶

[4-5] If you both (women) repent to Allah, (it is better for you), for your hearts have swerved from the right path⁷ and if you supported each other against the Prophet,⁸ you should know that Allah is his Protector, and after Him Gabriel and the righteous believers and the angels are his companions and helpers.⁹ It may well be that if the Prophet divorces all of you, Allah will give him in your place better wives,¹⁰ who are true Muslims, who are believing¹¹ and obedient,¹² penitent,¹³ worshiping,¹⁴ and given to fasting,¹⁵ be they previously married or virgins.

 

I have heard from a scholar that these verses is talking about Aisha. But are Aisha not a true muslim? Not one who belief? Not one who worship Allah? 

Yes, she has made mistakes like to go war against Ali (battle of Jamal) 

But still she is a great muslim, right?

My question is, who is a true muslim? If not she is than who? What is it that make you a true muslim? 

And is this really about Aisha?

Edited May 3, 2020 by Hameedeh
Change in title

[Ali bin Hussein]

She is a Muslim and as a wife of the Prophet is due respect. History informs us she repented on many occasions.

As regards a certain woman (1), she is in the grip of womanly views, and malice is boiling in her bosom like the furnace of the blacksmith. If she were called upon to deal with others as she is dealing with me she would not have done it. (As for me), even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect , while the reckoning (of her misdeeds) is an obligation on Allah. (Sermon 155 Nahjul Balagha)

[Abu_Zahra]

The translation and understanding of that verse is perhaps creating some confusion. What is listed is a group of qualities or attributes.

It is indeed believed that surah al tahreem is referring to a'isha and hafsa but the verse is not saying that they aren't muslim. 

As Shi'a we are not looking towards them for guidance on fiqh or aqaaid and I humbly believe that beyond this it is not necessary to go further into polemics.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Mahdavist

[Cool]

1 hour ago, Kalepaceh said:

But are Aisha not a true muslim? Not one who belief? Not one who worship Allah? 

Yes, she has made mistakes like to go war against Ali (battle of Jamal) 

But still she is a great muslim, right?

Salam,

Apparently she was a muslimah that's all we can say because we don't know the secrets of heart. But she was of course not "a great muslimah" according to these verses. 

Wassalam

[Cool]

1 hour ago, Kalepaceh said:

If you both (women) repent to Allah, (it is better for you), for your hearts have swerved from the right path⁷ and if you supported each other against the Prophet,⁸ you should know that Allah is his Protector, and after Him Gabriel and the righteous believers and the angels are his companions and helpers.

Not acting upon this command would certainly make her a kafir. So I can only hope that she would have repented after the revelation of this verse. 

Whether she remembered this divine command, commands recommendations of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), it is a different question & her actions afterwards can be seen as evidence for what she did with Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) well after the martyrdom of Imam Ali (عليه السلام). 

[Panzerwaffe]

Aisha probably repented her failure at Jamal , i.e  trusting Talha and the basrans and killing of muslims 

But she likely nursed a grudge against Ali for her whole life , God knows best though.We don't know for sure 

BIG QUESTION IS Aisha and talha joined forces to fight Ali. Same talha who wanted to marry aisha after prophet died !!! What does this mean ?

Edited April 30, 2020 by Panzerwaffe

[Sirius_Bright]

I see a lot of people fall for 'But she's wife of Holy Prophet (saw)'. Do you think there's favoritism in Islam? Or do you think having malice and hatred for Holy Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) is forgivable just because you're wife of a Prophet? Does Relations matter in Islam? If yes, then why is whole surah (Lahab/masadd) revealed damning uncle of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).? 

[al-Muttaqin]

11 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

I see a lot of people fall for 'But she's wife of Holy Prophet (saw)'. Do you think there's favoritism in Islam? Or do you think having malice and hatred for Holy Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) is forgivable just because you're wife of a Prophet? Does Relations matter in Islam? If yes, then why is whole surah (Lahab/masadd) revealed damning uncle of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).? 

As salaam alaikum,

I agree and this is something that troubles me (in my discussions with Sunnis) that just cannot be alleviated. By extension there is the whole fallacy of treating all the Sahaba as infallible and beyond any criticism. 

We must also remember the Holy Prophet's ((عليه السلام).) very strong words (also found in many Sunni hadith) that (paraphrasing): "Anyone who is an enemy of Ali's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is an enemy of mine". 

They are words that sting, they are words of truth from the Holy Prophet ((عليه السلام).)

[power]

On 4/30/2020 at 7:20 AM, Warilla said:

 History informs us she repented on many occasions.

Can you kindly provide source that she had repented?

[Ali bin Hussein]

5 hours ago, power said:

Can you kindly provide source that she had repented?

I'll get back to you insha'Allah 

But for now she asked to turn back when she heard the dogs barking and was reminded of the hadith. Which definitely shows intention.

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam her intention was fighting with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to martyr him & install her favorite person like Talha that prophecy of incident of dog barking generally said to her by prophet Muhammad (pbu) to warn her & rest of his wives to stop her & rest of them about avoiding taking part in any Fitna after demise of prophet Muhammad (pbu) also about popular prophecy in sunni books about rising horns of Shaitan (la) from east house of Aisha mentioned as start & root cause of it but all current narrators between sunnis are censoring this part for protection of her fake value between Sunnis & Shias don't refer to it for sake of unity anyway there is no evidence of her repentance that she had same agenda & hatred about Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) until she killed by Muawiah (la) because she stood against his devil plots that he did  for appointing Yazeed (la) as his successor & martyred half brother of Aisha in Egypt that caused their bloody rivalry that Muawiah (la) wasn't kind & merciful like Imam Ali (عليه السلام) when she stood against Muawiah (la).

[Sirius_Bright]

38 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

sunnis are censoring this part for protection of her fake value between Sunnis & Shias don't refer to it for sake of unity anyway

Such unity be damned where you protect enemies of Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام). 

[OrthodoxTruth]

Refer to the books of your marja on that. It’s enough to judge where she is based on the life actions undertaken by her. Starting from, putting it very politely, being mean and highly offensive towards the Prophet (sawa) and his purified family, ending on her conspiring and physically, violently leading armed struggle against the previously mentioned. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) clearly mentions in the Quran that the wives of the Prophets aren’t immune from hell fire. More in detail you can find here. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by OrthodoxTruth

[Sirius_Bright]

Some people quote part of the sermon of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to claim Ameerul Momineen (عليه السلام) respected Aisha. Read below article.

https://www.seratonline.com/23671/did-ameerul-momineen-a-s-command-muslims-to-respect-ayesha/

[power]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:24 PM, al-Muttaqin said:

As salaam alaikum,

 

We must also remember the Holy Prophet's ((عليه السلام).) very strong words (also found in many Sunni hadith) that (paraphrasing): "Anyone who is an enemy of Ali's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is an enemy of mine". 

 

Even though the  hadith you have quoted is correct, but the complete hadith finish of by; IS THE ENEMY OF AllAH (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

[Muslim2010]

On 4/30/2020 at 5:03 AM, Kalepaceh said:

Yes, she has made mistakes like to go war against Ali (battle of Jamal) 

But still she is a great muslim, right?

My question is, who is a true muslim? If not she is than who? What is it that make you a true muslim? 

And is this really about Aisha?

As the matter of wives of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is concerned the Quran addresses them by the following  clear verses:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَاجِكَ إِن كُنتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا فَتَعَالَيْنَ أُمَتِّعْكُنَّ وَأُسَرِّحْكُنَّ سَرَاحًا جَمِيلًا

[Shakir]:  O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this world's life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing (33:28)

وَإِن كُنتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالدَّارَ الْآخِرَةَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلْمُحْسِنَاتِ مِنكُنَّ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا

[Shakir]:  And if you desire Allah and His Messenger and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward. (33:29)

يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَن يَأْتِ مِنكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ ۚ وَكَانَ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا

[Shakir]: O wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be increased to her doubly; and this is easy to Allah. (33:30)

wasalam

Edited May 2, 2020 by Muslim2010

[Al-Muntadhar313]

On 4/30/2020 at 1:20 PM, Warilla said:

even hereafter she will be allowed her original respect

That's a mistranslanslation of what Imam 'Ali (a) said about aisha

[Al-Muntadhar313]

ويلك - يا بن قيس -! كيف رأيتني صنعت حين قتل عثمان ووجدت أعوانا؟
هل رأيت مني فشلا أو جبنا، أو تقصيرا في وقعتي يوم البصرة وهم حول جملهم الملعون من معه، الملعون من قتل حوله، الملعون من ركبه

Imam Ali (peace be upon him) said to Al-Ash'ath, son of Qais: "Woe to you, O son of Qais! What did you see that I did when Uthman was killed and I found men to support me? Did you see from me any defeat, or cowardice, or any short-coming during my battle on the Day of Basrah, while they where surrounding their camel?! Cursed be whoever was with it! Cursed be whoever was killed around it! Cursed be whoever rode it!" 

(Bihar al-Anwar, volume 29, page 469)

[dragonxx]

14 hours ago, Warilla said:

I'll get back to you insha'Allah 

But for now she asked to turn back when she heard the dogs barking and was reminded of the hadith. Which definitely shows intention.

It does indeed. Shows intention of her malice, that despite the warning she received she went onwards.

Her going back doesn't show intention of repenting, it shows intention of self-preservation.

Even if she did go back, no doubt she would've done the same thing another day.

[dragonxx]

On 4/30/2020 at 8:03 AM, Kalepaceh said:

What is it that make you a true muslim?

the following are some characteristics which those two wives seemed to lack

On 4/30/2020 at 8:03 AM, Kalepaceh said:

who are believing¹¹ and obedient,¹² penitent,¹³ worshiping,¹⁴ and given to fasting,

 

[Ali bin Hussein]

21 hours ago, power said:

Can you kindly provide source that she had repented?

Ok so first my general statement she repented on many occasions

(mother of the faithful believers) I bought a cushion with pictures on it. When Allah's Apostle saw it, he kept standing at the door and did not enter the house. I noticed the sign of disgust on his face, so I said, "O Allah's Apostle! I repent to Allah and His Apostle. (Sahih bukhari chapter trade an sales)

Specifically for Jamal

Ali later went to the house in which Umm al-Mumineen ‘Aisha was, he took permission to enter . Ibn Al-Emad in Shathrat Al-Thahab says, “When Ali arrived at Basrah, he went to Aysha and said, “May Allah forgive you.” She answered, “You too, I only wanted reformation.”(Shatharat Al-Thahab, vol.1, p.42)

Ayesha(رضي الله عنه) regretted on her walk and said, “I wish I was a fresh branch of a tree and never walked this walk.” (Musnaf Ibn Abi Sheibah, vol.8, the Book of the “Camel” in the departure of Aysha, p.718 )

On her death bed Ayesha seemed perplexed and uncomfortable, when asked why she replied, “The day of Jamal is dogging my mind” 

As for scholarly opinion

Sunni unanimous

Zaidi consenus of Ahlulbayt she repented.  (See Nasa al Kaafiya)

As for 12er the opinion also exists (marginal)

The battle of Jamal was fought, ‘Ali ‘s army was victorious, both Talha and Zubair were killed by their own men and bibi Ayesha was sent back to Madina under the escort of her brother Muhammad ibne Abibakr. She always repented this venture and asked forgiveness from God (story of the holy Kaaba on al- islam.org)

Ayatullah Kamal Haideri opinion is that she repented and should be respected.

Multiple marja have said insulting her is forbidden.

So even if you don't agree (which is your right) It's the opinion of Sunni and Zaidi Shia. And is also a fringe opinion in 12er so at the very least it can be said it's an acceptable opinion from a 12er perspective.

Also providing explicit evidence for repentance is always difficult as it's generally a private thing. It's the reason I wrote "history shows" 

As most of it is recordid in history books such a Tabari rather than hadith collections.

But non of that matters as Imam Ali said she is due respect and Allah will judge her.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Warilla

[Ali bin Hussein]

2 hours ago, Warilla said:

Zaidi consenus of Ahlulbayt she repented.  *(See Nasa al Kaafiya)

*Kashif Al Amin 

I put the wrong refferance.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Warilla

[power]

2 hours ago, Warilla said:

Ok so first my general statement she repented on many occasions

(mother of the faithful believers) I bought a cushion with pictures on it. When Allah's Apostle saw it, he kept standing at the door and did not enter the house. I noticed the sign of disgust on his face, so I said, "O Allah's Apostle! I repent to Allah and His Apostle. (Sahih bukhari chapter trade an sales)

Specifically for Jamal

Ali later went to the house in which Umm al-Mumineen ‘Aisha was, he took permission to enter . Ibn Al-Emad in Shathrat Al-Thahab says, “When Ali arrived at Basrah, he went to Aysha and said, “May Allah forgive you.” She answered, “You too, I only wanted reformation.”(Shatharat Al-Thahab, vol.1, p.42)

Ayesha(رضي الله عنه) regretted on her walk and said, “I wish I was a fresh branch of a tree and never walked this walk.” (Musnaf Ibn Abi Sheibah, vol.8, the Book of the “Camel” in the departure of Aysha, p.718 )

On her death bed Ayesha seemed perplexed and uncomfortable, when asked why she replied, “The day of Jamal is dogging my mind” 

As for scholarly opinion

Sunni unanimous

Zaidi consenus of Ahlulbayt she repented.  (See Nasa al Kaafiya)

As for 12er the opinion also exists (marginal)

The battle of Jamal was fought, ‘Ali ‘s army was victorious, both Talha and Zubair were killed by their own men and bibi Ayesha was sent back to Madina under the escort of her brother Muhammad ibne Abibakr. She always repented this venture and asked forgiveness from God (story of the holy Kaaba on al- islam.org)

Ayatullah Kamal Haideri opinion is that she repented and should be respected.

Multiple marja have said insulting her is forbidden.

So even if you don't agree (which is your right) It's the opinion of Sunni and Zaidi Shia. And is also a fringe opinion in 12er so at the very least it can be said it's an acceptable opinion from a 12er perspective.

Also providing explicit evidence for repentance is always difficult as it's generally a private thing. It's the reason I wrote "history shows" 

As most of it is recordid in history books such a Tabari rather than hadith collections.

But non of that matters as Imam Ali said she is due respect and Allah will judge her.

Thanks bro, will analyse the credibility info put forward. 

[Ali bin Hussein]

To be honest it's not very credible, mostly Sunni sources. For me the main thing is Imam Ali words and the consensus of zaidi scholars ( not an authority for you). 

The position is one of neutrality for Aisha in zaidi madhab.

[Ashvazdanghe]

10 hours ago, Warilla said:

Specifically for Jamal

Ali later went to the house in which Umm al-Mumineen ‘Aisha was, he took permission to enter . Ibn Al-Emad in Shathrat Al-Thahab says, “When Ali arrived at Basrah, he went to Aysha and said, “May Allah forgive you.” She answered, “You too, I only wanted reformation.”(Shatharat Al-Thahab, vol.1, p.42)

Ayesha(رضي الله عنه) regretted on her walk and said, “I wish I was a fresh branch of a tree and never walked this walk.” (Musnaf Ibn Abi Sheibah, vol.8, the Book of the “Camel” in the departure of Aysha, p.718 )

On her death bed Ayesha seemed perplexed and uncomfortable, when asked why she replied, “The day of Jamal is dogging my mind” 

Salam anyway I don't see sign of repentance in theses narrations also regretting after defeat in battle is a common action between  losers of battle also her actions about preventing doing farewell in burial of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) showed that her repentance wasn't real anyway maybe she takes benefit about opposing Muawiah (la) after killing her half brother & standing against election of Yazid (la) as successor of his cursed father at the end her reward & punishment will be double of normal people as wife of prophet Muhammad (pbu) but in my opinion her sins will overcome her good deeds.

[Ali bin Hussein]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

her actions about preventing doing farewell in burial of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) showed that her repentance wasn't real anyway maybe she takes benefit about opposing Muawiah (la) after killing her half brother & standing against election of Yazid (la)

Very valid points. I guess that's why zaidi hold a neutral view. As the way Imam Ali, Hassan and Hussein delt with her was one of respect and not outward opposition despite her outward opposition.

Also women are often prone to jealousy and it is normally from a emotional stand point.

"As regards a certain woman (1), she is in the grip of womanly views......."

Compare that to Muawiya who opposition was always calculated and intentionally there to corrupt Islam.

Allah knows best. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Warilla

[al-Muttaqin]

1 hour ago, Warilla said:

As the way Imam Ali, Hassan and Hussein delt with her was one of respect and not outward opposition despite her outward opposition.

I agree with this. It is one of many illustrations of their moral/ethical code. Despite the saying of the Holy Prophet ((عليه السلام).) that 'anyone who is an enemy of Ali is an enemy of mine' (paraphrase), the discipline of Ali was to patient forbearance. He was often not in a situation were fighting was the appropriate measure as well (as we all know he mastered his sword when it came to that).

[A_A]

66:5 -Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah ], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.

What's the debate on, I don't get it... Both Sunni and Shia will point the finger to Hafsa and Aisha. Who else would it be? It specifically stating "wives and "divorce". 

This verse is a statement from God himself, saying that He would give the Prophet better wives than those two. Muslim is clearly out of the equation, they weren't even virgins when they married him. Putting her actions after the death of the Prophet into consideration along with the effects of her narrations on the image of Islam and the image of our prophet, I would curse her, let alone regard her as Muslim which is an amusing notion and contradictory to everything she's stood for. All those narrations on a bewitched prophet, a pedophile prophet, an abusive prophet, a careless prophet, come from this woman. It's because of her, the West thinks our prophet is a pedophile. So even from death, her sins are still in effect. 

They were shamed and labelled by God in the Quran and you people are still squabbling over whether or not she repented? Even with the knowledge of what she did after the prophet's death? And we are not even talking about one verse either, we are talking about the entirety of chapter al-Tahrim. It even goes on to compare them to the wives of Noah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Lut (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).