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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haji 2003

Islamic interpretation of atheism

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I guess an atheist would consider themselves a group apart from believers in any deity or groups of deities.

But in Islam does atheism fall under the same umbrella as polytheism or belief in another entity other than the God of Abraham? To the extent that an atheist ascribes causes to either natural phenomena and/or human action - i.e. there is belief in something.

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On 4/23/2020 at 6:33 AM, eThErEaL said:

You see, the word "polytheism" also doesn't really belong here.  Polytheism is another one of those foreign words people inserted into the Quranic worldview and they use it as a wrong or crude translation for "Mushrik".  

but what is the correct usage of the word polytheism/polytheists then if not 'mushrik'?

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22 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

but what is the correct usage of the word polytheism/polytheists then if not 'mushrik'?

What this means is that:

There may not be anything such as polytheism but there is something called “associating others with God.”  The word “polytheism” has a very limited scope of meaning and it hardly conveys the real significance of the word “shirk”.   Shirk is not so much an action as it is a fallacious paradigm (a presumption of the way things are or of what is real).  Shirk is to presume that reality is essentially disparate (that there are, in essence, a plurality of realities).  Shirk is an ignorance of what is essentially real and what is essentially unreal!  

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

There may not be anything such as polytheism but there is something called “associating others with God.”  

is there belief in other gods except The God(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or does it matter whether these associations are made knowingly or not?

or you mean there can't be a belief in god or gods other than The God(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) without association?

Edited by Mzwakhe

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

Shirk is not so much an action as it is a fallacious paradigm (a presumption of the way things are or of what is real).  Shirk is to presume that reality is essentially disparate (that there are, in essence, a plurality of realities).  Shirk is an ignorance of what is essentially real and what is essentially unreal!  

yes but this is beautiful.

So what would be the opposite of say the last sentence, what would be the 'awareness' of what is essentially real & what is essentially unreal?

Edited by Mzwakhe

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On 7/6/2020 at 10:05 PM, eThErEaL said:

The opposite of “shirk” is “Tawhid”.

okay, so Tauheed would be 'The awareness of what is essentially real & what is essentially unreal'?

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On 7/6/2020 at 11:50 PM, Mzwakhe said:

okay, so Tauheed would be 'The awareness of what is essentially real & what is essentially unreal'?

precisely.

The formula of tawhid is:  Laa ilaha illa Llah

The literal translation is:  There is no god if (in) not (la) God.  This statement is about first of all a discernment between God (Real) and god (false).  In order to witness the Real, you must first see the false as false.  

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On 7/6/2020 at 9:55 PM, Mzwakhe said:

is there belief in other gods except The God(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or does it matter whether these associations are made knowingly or not?

No one makes an association knowingly.  Associations are made out of ignorance.  Ignorance (or false knowing, sometimes mistaken for knowing) is the root of all this.  Real knowing is the antidote.  

Quote

or you mean there can't be a belief in god or gods other than The God(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) without association?

Yes you can say that.  But even the "belief" in God is a kind of association.  All beliefs are in some way or another, an association.  Because God is not an object at all.  And so to believe in God is to make God an object of belief.  It is to to regard God as "other" (I am speaking at a very practical level, about what is really going on when one "believes" in God).

Haqqul Yaqeen is the highest level of certitude where the one who has certitude is not separate from That which he is certain of.  There is no "object" of belief or object of certitude because the one who is certain IS NOT OTHER than what would otherwise be considered "an object" of certitude.  The knower and known are united...  or as the hadith Qudsi states: "I am the eyes by which he sees, the hands by which he grasps...etc etc"

Edited by eThErEaL

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On 7/7/2020 at 7:35 AM, eThErEaL said:

The opposite of “shirk” is “Tawhid”.

Salam so " Kufr " is opposite of what !? as I know " Shirk" is taking another god as partner of Allah so it can't be opposite of " Tawhid" like " Kufr" that you mentioned definition of "Mushrik" & "Kafir " at your previous post.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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15 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam so " Kufr " is opposite of what !? as I know " Shirk" is taking another god as partner of Allah so it can't be opposite of " Tawhid" like " Kufr" that you mentioned definition of "Mushrik" & "Kafir " at your previous post.

Salam!

Kufr has precisely two opposite terms:

1) Shukr. (Gratefulness)

2) Iman. (Faith)

The reason why “kufr” has these two opposites is because it can be used in two different ways.  A) it is used to express ingratitude, and B) it can also mean “Concealing of or covering up the Truth”.  
 

etymologically, kufr is related to the word Farmer because the farmer covers seeds with soil.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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From my understanding, atheists would be considered mushrik since they deny Allah the attributes of being The Creator, Sustainer and Originator.

Instead, as you mentioned, they ascribe things to random physical processes, perhaps taking “randomness” (which does not exist) as their “god”. 

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On 7/16/2020 at 4:51 AM, Ejaz said:

From my understanding, atheists would be considered mushrik since they deny Allah the attributes of being The Creator, Sustainer and Originator.

so is this part Atheism:

”The perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute.”  —- Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

On 7/16/2020 at 4:51 AM, Ejaz said:

Instead, as you mentioned, they ascribe things to random physical processes, perhaps taking “randomness” (which does not exist) as their “god”. 

Not necessarily.  

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1 minute ago, eThErEaL said:

so is this part Atheism:

”The perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute.”  —- Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

Wouldn’t these be referring to human attributes?

 

2 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Not necessarily.  

Wdym? 

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@eThErEaL

Quote

https://www.al-islam.org/life-imam-ali-bin-musa-al-ridha-baqir-shareef-al-qurashi/chapter-5-his-debates-and-his-arguments

Men have differed over this subject to the extent that they have gone astray, become perplexed, and sought salvation from darkness with darkness through their describing Allah, the Exalted, with their own qualities, so they have become very far away from the truth. If they describe Allah, the Great and Almighty, with His own attributes, and describe the creatures with their own qualities, they will profess understanding and certainty, and will not defer over (Him).

Here Imam Reza ((عليه السلام)) differentiates human attributes with Allah’s attributes.

 

3 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

so is this part Atheism:

”The perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute.”  —- Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

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