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In the Name of God بسم الله

Who wants to be part of the 313?

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It is my dream and I have made it my purpose.

Salam Alaikum, For many years I have been praying to the God of Mohamed ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) to make me a part of the solution to the corruption of the world, which is to be among the fore

Salam Alaikum, @AkhiraisReal @Mohammad313Ali@BlueInk@AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola@Muslim2010@Syed.Dynasty@Ashvazdanghe@Diaz@Ejaz@F.M, and all honorable supporting guests and readers. We all ha

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7 hours ago, BlueInk said:

Explain how my reasoning is cheap. You’re literally ignoring what I said and simply said no.

I have explained it. But I will open a thread to further elaborate.

How would you deal with the birth certificates of your children? If you believe that "Your parents signed away your rights to the state at birth without knowing the could refuse.", then please explain how they could refuse.

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18 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Of course not! How is that even possible for a fallible? Only an infallible can do that. And why should I try that when I have other more fundamental things to work on?

The reason it took me so long to answer is because - with all due respect - those are three sentences, and I disagree with every one of them

But let me just focus in on one thing related to this topic. Why not try?

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3 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

I have explained it. But I will open a thread to further elaborate.

How would you deal with the birth certificates of your children? If you believe that "Your parents signed away your rights to the state at birth without knowing the could refuse.", then please explain how they could refuse.

I was incorrect on that part. They can theoretically just not sign. But then you’d be taken away from the state. Fiduciary responsibility lies with the state until one is 18 years old—your parents occupy the “office” created by the state (also legal fiction). They are answerable to the state.

 

If you like, I can post a much lengthier explanation at a later time.

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6 hours ago, BlueInk said:

I was incorrect on that part. They can theoretically just not sign. But then you’d be taken away from the state. Fiduciary responsibility lies with the state until one is 18 years old—your parents occupy the “office” created by the state (also legal fiction). They are answerable to the state.

The what do you suggest they do? In regards to this, what can they do to save the akhirah of their children? Importantly: Have you managed to implement any advice that you would give?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

The reason it took me so long to answer is because - with all due respect - those are three sentences, and I disagree with every one of them

But let me just focus in on one thing related to this topic. Why not try?

When did I say not try? What I said is, you wont be able to to do it "with all your heart" unless your are infallible, and don't focus too much on it if it distracts you from more fundamental things. Also don't do it whilst being ignorant of one's own flaws. Say : "Make me a much much better person so I can join the 313" instead of: "Make me among the 313".

Why do you object to the notion that only an infallible can pray to that level? It's a non-controversial idea. 

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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17 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Salaam dear brother, do you have hadiths to prove this? I have looked and couldn't find. 

Salam you can find it in signs of reappearance in above post about Imam Mahdi (aj)

Miraculous Gathering
According to hadiths, the companions of Imam al-Mahdi (a) will miraculously gather around him and join him in the holy Mecca from near and distant places in one day or night. Imam 'Ali (a) narrates from Prophet Muhammad (s) about the method of summoning the companions and their gathering around the Imam, "God will gather the companions of Mahdi from the East and the West in the time lesser than the blink of an eye near the holy Ka'ba.[29] Imam al-Baqir (a) also relates regarding this, "The helpers of Mahdi will rush towards him by means of Tayy al-Ard (traversing the earth without movement) and will pay allegiance to him in Mecca.[30]

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Companions_of_Imam_al-Mahdi_(a)

And that is the saying of Almighty Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)):

أَيْنَ مَا تَكُونُوا يَأْتِ بِكُمُ اللَّهُ جَمِيعًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

“…wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together; surely Allah has power over all things.”(Surah 2, Verse 148)

So much so, that people would not have time to change and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would make them reach the Imam.4

Abu Khalid Kabuli narrated from His Eminence, Imam Zainul Abideen ((عليه السلام).) that he said, “They are such that they sleep on their beds (It means that they were asleep and Allah took them out and gathered them in Mecca). They are 313 persons, same as the number of Badr warriors and they shall be in Mecca overnight and that is the saying of Allah:

أَيْنَ مَا تَكُونُوا يَأْتِ بِكُمُ اللَّهُ جَمِيعًا

“…wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together…”(Surah 2, Verse 148)

https://www.al-islam.org/life-imam-al-mahdi-baqir-shareef-al-qurashi/imams-companions

https://www.al-islam.org/an-overview-of-mahdi-s-government-najimuddin-tabasi/soldiers-imam-al-mahdi

How will they gather?
The Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) prophesied,
'When our Qaem (a.t.f.s.) will establish himself, Allah will gather the people of the East and West. These people will come together in one place in the same manner as the leaves gather in one place in autumn.'
(Al Sawaeq Al Mohreqa, pg. 163; Muntakhab Al Asar, pg. 477)
According to another tradition from the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) these people will gather in one place with the blinking of an eye.
(Ilzam An Nasib, pg. 200)
They will spend the night in their homes and by dawn-break, will reach Makkah Al Mukarramah.
(Behaarul Anwaar, vol. 52, pg. 286, tradition 21)
They will travel on clouds
Some of them will travel on the clouds by the day. Imam (a.t.f.s.) will recognize them by their names, by the names of their ancestors, by their lineage and by their style and mode. The narrator inquired who will be the most faithful? The prophet replied, 'The one who will travel on the clouds by the day.'
(Ibid)

https://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=4815

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5 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

When did I say not try? What I said is, you wont be able to to do it "with all your heart" unless your are infallible, and don't focus too much on it if it distracts you from more fundamental things. Also don't do it whilst being ignorant of one's own flaws. Say : "Make me a much much better person so I can join the 313" instead of: "Make me among the 313".

Why do you object to the notion that only an infallible can pray to that level? It's a non-controversial idea. 

Well exactly how I say it is my own unique way. I don't think it makes a difference if a person says to Allah to make them part of the 313 via this way or that way, as long as the destination is the same. It is a given that being among the best humans that ever existed, that Allah will have forgiven, guided, strengthened, wisened, protected, had compassion with, purified, etc etc that person. From Quran and Prophetic traditions there is little debate about the central role of salawaat and istighfar, so that is one of the obvious things that one can mostly take for granted by people who have those ambitions. I don't think I need to make this topic "Who wants to be forgiven and part of the 313". The same way like I didn't need to make this topic "Who wants to be forgiven, chosen, purified, guided, helped, opened to, raised through the ranks and be part of the 313"

As for the concept of "infallible", that concept doesn't exist in the Arabic Islamic language. So I don't take it very seriously. To me personally - if it interests you- all humans including the ahl bayt are limited and imperfect. So in essence they might be able to pray better, but nobody can pray perfectly. Only Allah is absolute, hence 100% anything. Therefore, saying "from all your heart" is just allegorical. 

Anyway, 313 are not only 313 among 7 or 8 billion people alive today. 313 are champions among the trillions (or more) that ever existed. So it is a very selected group where it is pretty much pointless to force people to pray to Allah to be part of it. Either people do it on their own and believe in the effects of their prayers, or they don't

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam you can find it in signs of reappearance in above post about Imam Mahdi (aj)

Miraculous Gathering
According to hadiths, the companions of Imam al-Mahdi (a) will miraculously gather around him and join him in the holy Mecca from near and distant places in one day or night. Imam 'Ali (a) narrates from Prophet Muhammad (s) about the method of summoning the companions and their gathering around the Imam, "God will gather the companions of Mahdi from the East and the West in the time lesser than the blink of an eye near the holy Ka'ba.[29] Imam al-Baqir (a) also relates regarding this, "The helpers of Mahdi will rush towards him by means of Tayy al-Ard (traversing the earth without movement) and will pay allegiance to him in Mecca.[30]

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Companions_of_Imam_al-Mahdi_(a)

And that is the saying of Almighty Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)):

أَيْنَ مَا تَكُونُوا يَأْتِ بِكُمُ اللَّهُ جَمِيعًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

“…wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together; surely Allah has power over all things.”(Surah 2, Verse 148)

So much so, that people would not have time to change and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would make them reach the Imam.4

Abu Khalid Kabuli narrated from His Eminence, Imam Zainul Abideen ((عليه السلام).) that he said, “They are such that they sleep on their beds (It means that they were asleep and Allah took them out and gathered them in Mecca). They are 313 persons, same as the number of Badr warriors and they shall be in Mecca overnight and that is the saying of Allah:

أَيْنَ مَا تَكُونُوا يَأْتِ بِكُمُ اللَّهُ جَمِيعًا

“…wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together…”(Surah 2, Verse 148)

https://www.al-islam.org/life-imam-al-mahdi-baqir-shareef-al-qurashi/imams-companions

https://www.al-islam.org/an-overview-of-mahdi-s-government-najimuddin-tabasi/soldiers-imam-al-mahdi

How will they gather?
The Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) prophesied,
'When our Qaem (a.t.f.s.) will establish himself, Allah will gather the people of the East and West. These people will come together in one place in the same manner as the leaves gather in one place in autumn.'
(Al Sawaeq Al Mohreqa, pg. 163; Muntakhab Al Asar, pg. 477)
According to another tradition from the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) these people will gather in one place with the blinking of an eye.
(Ilzam An Nasib, pg. 200)
They will spend the night in their homes and by dawn-break, will reach Makkah Al Mukarramah.
(Behaarul Anwaar, vol. 52, pg. 286, tradition 21)
They will travel on clouds
Some of them will travel on the clouds by the day. Imam (a.t.f.s.) will recognize them by their names, by the names of their ancestors, by their lineage and by their style and mode. The narrator inquired who will be the most faithful? The prophet replied, 'The one who will travel on the clouds by the day.'
(Ibid)

https://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=4815

Wasalaam, thanks for that, but none of the hadiths you quoted talk about the 313 not knowing each other before the zuhur. There is just one that says that Imam Mahdi will know them. So that still does not prove your claim that they won't know each other. Did I miss something? Please, can you copy paste any hadith that proves your claim? Thank you

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48 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

, thanks for that, but none of the hadiths you quoted talk about the 313 not knowing each other before the zuhur.

Salam in hadiths quality of them described that also is available in links that I provided that one of their main attribute is that they protect  life of Imam Mahdi (aj) more than their life that for this at least they must not have any connection with each other or don't gather in a particular place before Zuhur  in order to spies of his enemies can't find any trace from him that even they recognize each other they won't reveal anything about each other until Zuhur .

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4 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam in hadiths quality of them described that also is available in links that I provided that one of their main attribute is that they protect  life of Imam Mahdi (aj) more than their life that for this at least they must not have any connection with each other or don't gather in a particular place before Zuhur  in order to spies of his enemies can't find any trace from him that even they recognize each other they won't reveal anything about each other until Zuhur .

Is this an assumption, or is there a specific hadith mentioning this? Because it is a bit of a stretch to connect 'protecting the imam', with saying that there isn't any contact between the 313 prior to the zuhur. 

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9 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

The what do you suggest they do? In regards to this, what can they do to save the akhirah of their children? Importantly: Have you managed to implement any advice that you would give?

Of course. I am well on my way. Number one thing to is read the tide, and that is where I am getting better at.

 

They can do it literally, refusing to sign.

 

As far as akhirah goes, you’d have to declare/achieve sovereignty and to stop benefiting iblis. 

Failing this, some would be pardoned on account of helplessness in the true sense. Most of us do not have this excuse.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/15/2020 at 10:24 PM, 313 Seeker said:

Salam Alaikum,

For many years I have been praying to the God of Mohamed ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) to make me a part of the solution to the corruption of the world, which is to be among the forefront of the 313. My personal interpretation of the Quran makes me believe that what we ask Allah for, He will bring.

The reason why I asked for this most ambitious task is none other than not finding a reason not to. As they say: "Aim high, aim for the moon! And if you miss, you'll be among the stars." 

Some people pray for money, success for this thing or that. I pray for these things too, but I pray for worldly things only in context to my goal of specifically being among the best humans (and creatures) that Allah has/had/will ever create. This was never kept a secret, and I often challenge everyone openly to join me in this race towards goodness.

So, I've been wondering if there are any other people who have prayed for the same, or plan on praying for that from all their hearts.

Thank you,

Wa Aleikum Salaam, 

Most of those who I know made this dua here where I live, did only became worse later on their life. There is high chance that people say such a things for their riya' influence, so it is better to keep duas to themselves. 

Edited by Abu Nur
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16 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Wa Aleikum Salaam, 

Most of those who I know made this dua here where I live, did only became worse later on their life. There is high chance that people say such a things for their riya' influence, so it is better to keep duas to themselves. 

Well them getting "worse" might be temporary, or only on the surface. Maybe Allah makes them look like they got worse, to protect them from the mainstream, and to detach them from the crowds. In this way they will have more time alone and better chances at reaching truth via independent and direct link to Allah, away from envious and prying eyes. We have hadiths mentioning that pagans will be big supporters of the Mahdi, while so-called Islamic scholars will be his first enemies. 

So we don't have the right to judge our friends until the end. At the same time we can never know if the duas they did were sincere or not (or if they even did them). We can only speak for ourselves, while not expecting and not caring if people believe you or not. We follow the Sunnah of the prophet, and he definitely didn't keep many duas a secret. The same counts with the Imams who published and encouraged the spread of certain duas like Dua kumayl etc. We are encouraged to encourage people to pray. At the same time we are encouraged to think and to be proactive. This thread is all about these things.

- It's about encouraging duas that are helpful to all.

- It is about taking the proactive approach by not only encouraging people to pray for their own salvation and nearness to their imam, but also to be part of the solution.

I have still not seen any proof that the 313 won't actually do something to unite prior to zuhur. After much thinking I have come to the conclusion that the 313 won't happen unless we try.

And how else to try rather than ask Allah for it?

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Imam Sadeq (عليه السلام) said:

Quote

Fear is the guard for the heart and hope the companion of the soul. The one who knows God, is fearful and hopeful of God, and fear and hope are two wings of the belief, and the pious servant of God flies with them to paradise, and they are two eyes of wisdom and with them (the pious servant of God) sees the promises and threats of God - Biharul Anwar, Vol. 67, Pge 390.

 

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Well them getting "worse" might be temporary, or only on the surface. Maybe Allah makes them look like they got worse, to protect them from the mainstream, and to detach them from the crowds. In this way they will have more time alone and better chances at reaching truth via independent and direct link to Allah, away from envious and prying eyes. We have hadiths mentioning that pagans will be big supporters of the Mahdi, while so-called Islamic scholars will be his first enemies. 

When I meant worse, I meant attaching to Wordly life and forgetting Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and becoming worse in their actions and sinful. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

When I meant worse, I meant attaching to Wordly life and forgetting Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and becoming worse in their actions and sinful. 

 

Why did this happen though? maybe they where not sincere in the beginning.

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

Most of those who I know made this dua here where I live, did only became worse later on their life. There is high chance that people say such a things for their riya' influence, so it is better to keep duas to themselves. 

Could this be because their sincerity was tested and they failed? Kind of like how whenever a person means to lose weight, God sends their favorite foods to them, and if they indulge they end up even fatter than before? 

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40 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Why did this happen though? maybe they where not sincere in the beginning.

Possible yes. But what if they were. The point is that we must work always from small and look at our flaws and seek knowledge and purify our heart. It is because of the heart people can say something but when it comes to actions, they can not handle it.

Asking something from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) also means to work for it, or else it will become like:

O you who have faith! Why do you say what you do not do?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

When I meant worse, I meant attaching to Wordly life and forgetting Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and becoming worse in their actions and sinful. 

 

Yes I understood that. They might be just going through a phase and could come back stronger than ever after developing a more independent mind that is less scared of standing up against mainstream concepts. Sometimes faith is like a pendulum, swinging back and forth between good and bad lifestyles, till it finally settles in the middle. I myself have gone through phases like that where one would think that from outside I'm going from being religious to the opposite, but that was not correct from my point of view. Even though I missed a lot of things I had when I was "religious", while I wasn't, it was mostly an escape from the "religious" people who ended up disgusting me to honest. I didn't see most of them in it for the right reason, so from my point of view I was still on the path of Truth, although others loved to gossip about me, and used this to dismiss me as mad, lazy and unstable. 

I'm not saying your friends necessarily are going through such an experience, but it's a possibility, and I believe that we don't have the right to judge people's ranks and success that easily. I'm sure 100% that if any of them really prayed to be among the 313, then they will be inshallah.

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Yes I understood that. They might be just going through a phase and could come back stronger than ever after developing a more independent mind that is less scared of standing up against mainstream concepts. Sometimes faith is like a pendulum, swinging back and forth between good and bad lifestyles, till it finally settles in the middle. I myself have gone through phases like that where one would think that from outside I'm going from being religious to the opposite, but that was not correct from my point of view. Even though I missed a lot of things I had when I was "religious", while I wasn't, it was mostly an escape from the "religious" people who ended up disgusting me to honest. I didn't see most of them in it for the right reason, so from my point of view I was still on the path of Truth, although others loved to gossip about me, and used this to dismiss me as mad, lazy and unstable. 

Yes it is possible, I don't judge them.

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Posted (edited)

  

5 hours ago, BlueInk said:

Of course. I am well on my way. Number one thing to is read the tide, and that is where I am getting better at.

They can do it literally, refusing to sign.

As far as akhirah goes, you’d have to declare/achieve sovereignty and to stop benefiting iblis. 

Failing this, some would be pardoned on account of helplessness in the true sense. Most of us do not have this excuse.

Did you declare sovereignty with your own children?

Your inability to see the glaring flaws in your arguments is really troubling - yet fascinating. You should know that in Islam, items which are not stated in a contract are not a part of it. If one party is unaware of those items then they can never be obligated to fulfill them. Also, there is no obligation to seek out hidden items. The use of secret language or secret symbolism does not change that.

E.g. if I as your employer signed a contract with you, then you are only obligated to fulfill what was stated on the contract. Later on, I cannot say that in my mind the ownership of your house was a part of the contract. I also cannot say that there was a symbol on the contract which implied the ownership of the house. In accordance to Islam, people who sign birth certificates are simply declaring that they are parents of the child and no more than that. Unless the certificate explicitly specifies other items, then there is no more to it. Whatever the state may believe about this contract is irrelevant. 

More importantly, the actions of the parent (in this scenario) are irrelevant to the status of the child in the eyes of Allah. If someone wrote an explicit contract which takes complete ownership (e.g. as debt collateral in strawman theory) of a child, then the contract is void. Haraam items in contracts make them void. Your parents could explicitly and willingly sign such contracts and they would be meaningless. No soul bears the sins of another. A fundamental Islamic tenant. Even those funny websites from where you learned this strawman theory state that the contract is void. Yet somehow you took it further than them and believe it affects the akhirah of the child.

And to make it worse, you haven't even given any evidence that capital letters denote ownership or treatment as a corporate entity. You just read some conspiracy websites and believed what was written on them. You are being gullible. You are supposed to verify every claim and find sources to back them up. Where is your evidence? I can think of a whole list of alternate reasons why capitalization is used. BTW many birth certificates don't use capital letters.

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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Posted (edited)

Praying for something we really want:

Salam Alaikum,

I would like to share with you my own experience with what it means to pray for something we really want. If we are obsessed with something, and make it our life mission, then we don't pray for it once or twice, or a thousand times? We pray for it in every way, every day, every part of the day, with almost every breath. One has to be in a total state of begging. Over the years you never stop, through thick and thin not only focusing your every prayer in this direction, but also your entire lifestyle and every choice in life becomes geared towards this objective.


It makes a lot of sense to ask for this, as it basically means that you will be more loved by God, and have a better life in this life, and a better life for all eternity. Don't expect it to be easy, but expect it to work.

Then you start seeing signs from God that you are on the right track, and clear signs that what you want is what you are getting. You start acting the way you hope to be, and Allah will grant it to you. My belief is that the real competition is in how much and how hard and how soft and how genuinely and patiently you prayed for this compared to everyone else. Just praying for it half heartedly doesn't count as a prayer for me. It must be obsessed! Nothing else matters! This is your life's devotion.

Edited by 313 Seeker
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9 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

their main attribute is that they protect  life of Imam Mahdi (aj)

Salam I'd like to go back to this comment of yours, dear brother and point out that there is actually one way that I remember how they are ordered to protect the Mahdi before the zuhur. And that is stated clearly that nobody is allowed to mention his name to anyone. His real name, that is. 

So the way I see it is that a bunch of totally random people who are not breaking any official laws, will build up a network without any legal or financial obligations whatsoever. There won't be a clear leadership structure to this "organization", so nobody can be "toppled". There wont be a head to remove, that would kill the body.

Anybody, who is martyred along the way will be remembered and mentioned in the history books to come (as well as all kinds of other things like having places, streets, squares, mosques built in their names, as well as making their graves a site of ziara insha Allah), and so this network of people who aren't connected through tangible ways will keep growing and even if they suspect that they are 313, or even who the Mahdi might be, they will never be 100% sure until after the Sufiani emerges. I believe that this will be one of the main cues for them to unite according to the hadiths. Up until that point they will have time to strengthen their weaknesses and clean out their spiritual closets. The whole purpose of this open network will be for self-betterment (all in the name of Allah and as a wasila/means of closeness to Allah) and casual social support.

That's how I see it happening. God will ultimately make sure that His plan will be executed, and the 313 know that. They will be focusing on their connection with Allah, that will make them see more signs (that they are truly a 313) and increase their certainty by the day. This wont be a classic 'secret society' like the countless satanic ones we know of, that have to hide in the dark due to their shameful existence. They have nothing to hide, as they aren't weird or doing anything that goes against the rules of their respective countries, neither are they doing anything against Islamic law. So they are maasumeen/protected from the people in sha Allah.

The way I imagine it is that there will be lots of people who will be part of this group and then will leave it due to not making the cut. It will be a time of severe testing, and last minute additions will probably also happen, just like what happened in Karbala, when that Christian guy converted to Islam and was promoted to being a super-follower of Hussein within seconds. Masha Allah This shows us that anybody stands a chance to overtake us in piety, and that time spent in Islam is of no indication. We are not to look down at anybody, regardless of what outward religion or lifestyle they might have. When Allah chooses somebody it's like a sledgehammer. It's hard to stop.

Anyone contending to be a 313 must make it their ideal and priority to self improve and prepare for what is to come. We all have read the characteristics of such people, and chances are that all the 313 are distinguished and noble characters who came back (rajaa) from past lives, in order to take up these most distinguished and noble positions, that are the jealousy of prophets. All prophets were wishing to be part of this success that we have before us, and the opportunity that exists for us now at the end of days.

If somebody can convince us that the 313 will do absolutely nothing proactive to form this organized network before the zuhur, and that it will be basically the Mahdi calling each one up as a total surprise for the first time saying: "hey, Im the Mahdi! Get in the plane and come over here", then I will change my mind about this competitive opinion of actually doing something to make it happen. But I vaguely remember reading hadiths that claim how the 313 will be very acquainted with each other when they meet and really happy to see each other. It's going to be a blast! Literally!

Thank you,

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

  

Did you declare sovereignty with your own children?

Your inability to see the glaring flaws in your arguments is really troubling - yet fascinating. You should know that in Islam, items which are not stated in a contract are not a part of it. If one party is unaware of those items then they can never be obligated to fulfill them. Also, there is no obligation to seek out hidden items. The use of secret language or secret symbolism does not change that.

E.g. if I as your employer signed a contract with you, then you are only obligated to fulfill what was stated on the contract. Later on, I cannot say that in my mind the ownership of your house was a part of the contract. I also cannot say that there was a symbol on the contract which implied the ownership of the house. In accordance to Islam, people who sign birth certificates are simply declaring that they are parents of the child and no more than that. Unless the certificate explicitly specifies other items, then there is no more to it. Whatever the state may believe about this contract is irrelevant. 

More importantly, the actions of the parent (in this scenario) are irrelevant to the status of the child in the eyes of Allah. If someone wrote an explicit contract which takes complete ownership (e.g. as debt collateral in strawman theory) of a child, then the contract is void. Haraam items in contracts make them void. Your parents could explicitly and willingly sign such contracts and they would be meaningless. No soul bears the sins of another. A fundamental Islamic tenant. Even those funny websites from where you learned this strawman theory state that the contract is void. Yet somehow you took it further than them and believe it affects the akhirah of the child.

And to make it worse, you haven't even given any evidence that capital letters denote ownership or treatment as a corporate entity. You just read some conspiracy websites and believed what was written on them. You are being gullible. You are supposed to verify every claim and find sources to back them up. Where is your evidence? I can think of a whole list of alternate reasons why capitalization is used. BTW many birth certificates don't use capital letters.

You still aren’t looking at the practical aspects of it. The world still revolves around Iblis.

Why bother to make such linguistic gymnastics if it weren’t for the sake of avoiding Allah’s retribution?

I do not have children to declare sovereignty for. 
 

Again, by agreeing to become a ward/employee of the state, your strawman occupies an office of the state. You are an employee of the government.

I already gave evidence in the first post—it is your strawman which is being referred to, not you. It doesn’t need to always be spelled in capitals.

Again, your parents agreed to let the state create a strawman, which then obligates you to the state.

 

The certificate is not a contract, it is a certificate. A security. Does not necessitate it to be a contract. You are making speculations about my own words whilst still not understanding. Not every birth certificate looks the same, as you may not know.

 

Where is it stated that the contract is void? I’d appreciate it if you could post the text.

Edited by BlueInk
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Imam reappears that's the only wish I have. My sins might be too much that I cant be one of them. 

Once the Imam reappears we won't see the cry of oppressed and orphans. Oppressive rulers will no longer rule this world, Peace and tranquility will prevail everywhere. I wish I could see that time 

Allahumma ajille waliyekal faraj wajalna min ansaaarehi wa aaawaanehi wa shiyateka wa la tajalna min aadaaayeka. 

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On 4/17/2020 at 5:11 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

On investing: How many years? Did you just buy an index during the last bull run or have you survived any crashes? Did you make trades in 2008 or 2000? 

Brother, BlueInk said his age is 22 years old. Hmmm Maybe he is :Sami's son. 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060159-is-my-profession-halal/

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, wolverine said:

Brother, BlueInk said his age is 22 years old. Hmmm Maybe he is :Sami's son. 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060159-is-my-profession-halal/

 

When I asked him those questions (about investing, children etc), I had his first two threads in mind. I wanted to catch him out. He went from being a poverty stricken 22 year old who wanted to beat up his household members, and considered himself a kaffir. To being a person who has 7 years of investing experience which has made him enough money to assist his family. And he also has the alleged sagacity to tell us how to join the 313. 

He is Sami and he is a liar.

Wealth: Notice he said he survived recessions by going into metals. Was he 12 at the time of the last recession (he claims to be from New York and the last recession was in 2009)? Even Warren Buffett couldn't do that! Even his time-frame for a recession is wrong, there was no recession in the last 7 years. @BlueInk in which country were you during the recession? 

Quote

I mane investments. I take my own profits. I was using investing as an analogy. I have survived recessions by vacating money into gold and silver, hard.

As far as time goes, I’ve been investing since 2013. 7 years is still not enough, but I have developed trust in myself and it is enough to assist my family who are not well off or need assistance from time to time.

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235066123-who-wants-to-be-part-of-the-313/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-3277414

Poverty:

Quote

 

Example: My family needs credit cards and mortgage for the house; otherwise we would be homeless and destitute. My father cannot keep working long hours for meager pay like he has been these many years. I am age 22 and I consider myself as the only hope for retaining my families’ assets. My getting a decent salaried job in a timely manner is crucial for us not going into real poverty.

I have no other skills and changing my degree program will be financially burdensome. I really saw this as my last hope for living a better life and escaping these bullshint current circumstances.

 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060159-is-my-profession-halal/?tab=comments#comment-3183319

Wanting to beat his family up (same thread):

Quote

 

 My anger with Allah too is now at breaking point. If I am a kafir now my self, then why the hell did I bother to obey Him and the Imam?

Since my salah is no longer accepted nor my other deeds, I am basically guaranteed hellfire.

What the hell am I supposed to do? Should I escalate it to physical violence? I am physically capable, but I don't want to get the police involved. I am tired of being disregarded, especially when I am the one who should be listened to! Or should I leave Islam altogether, since there is now no hope of attaining paradise.

 

@AkhiraisReal@313 Seeker @Syed.Dynasty You said he wasn't Sami. What is your evidence? Have you noticed the change in persona?

The reason I think he is Sami is because of the collection of beliefs he holds and his writing style (e.g. the structure of his sentences and his particular use of punctuation). Remember I was very active on this forum a few years ago, so I became aware of his posts. You said his beliefs are not exclusive to him. You are right he got some of them from some websites and added his own flavor to them; but it's the combination of beliefs that he holds which gives it away.

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

When I asked him those questions (about investing, children etc), I had his first two threads in mind. I wanted to catch him out. He went from being a poverty stricken 22 year old who wanted to beat up his household members, and considered himself a kaffir. To being a person who has 7 years of investing experience which has made him enough money to assist his family. And he also has the alleged sagacity to tell us how to join the 313. 

He is Sami and he is a liar.

Wealth: Notice he said he survived recessions by going into metals. Was he 12 at the time of the last recession (he claims to be from New York and the last recession was in 2009)? Even Warren Buffett couldn't do that! Even his time-frame for a recession is wrong, there was no recession in the last 7 years. @BlueInk in which country were you during the recession? 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235066123-who-wants-to-be-part-of-the-313/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-3277414

Poverty:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235060159-is-my-profession-halal/?tab=comments#comment-3183319

Wanting to beat his family up (same thread):

@AkhiraisReal@313 Seeker @Syed.Dynasty You said he wasn't Sami. What is your evidence? Have you noticed the change in persona?

The reason I think he is Sami is because of the collection of beliefs he holds and his writing style (e.g. the structure of his sentences and his particular use of punctuation). Remember I was very active on this forum a few years ago, so I became aware of his posts. You said his beliefs are not exclusive to him. You are right he got some of them from some websites and added his own flavor to them; but it's the combination of beliefs that he holds which gives it away.

I’m 24 years old now. I never said that I am wealthy. You’re accusing me of something I never said. Investing does not make me automatically wealthy. I find your obsession with me being sami to be rather strange.

As for the personal information, why do you request it? Sami was based in Australia, which is what I know. I’ll tell you I don’t live in Australia. 
 

Whats the big deal about me being in PM’s? I have been taking on a decent amount in profit which helps my self and my family, it does not mean buying them everything they would need. It takes large amounts of capital to envision the lifestyles you see on MLM’s, by the way. 

I have been in and out of the market for 7 years. Yes. What of it? I’m not a professional. I simply can read using my own knowledge and inferences.

You sad thing. You are conflating my responses on this thread with telling you how to be the 313. This thread is wanting to be 313, not me telling anyone how to do anything. 

Is it your hobby to sabotage conversations? Sami’s use of punctation was terrible, by the way. My style of writing is different. 

And yeah, people have bouts of anger. My faith isn’t perfect. My knowledge isn’t godlike as you think I think of myself.

Do I actually do the things that would make me a criminal? No. 

I was desperate at the time, as I did not think I had any chances of getting in my preferred firm or graduate program. Am I not allowed to be angry?

First you deny, then you slander, then you’ll make accusations. Then, you’ll make excuses.

You still haven’t responded to my arguments, all said.

For the record, I have a good relationship with members of my household now. 

Your jumps in logic are still quite interesting. I myself did not know Sami claimed to be from New York.

Holding a collection of beliefs which I gained by following Sami’s posts does not make one to be the person you are claiming me to be. It’s as if you wish to discredit what I have said in my prior reply to you by attacking my character via accusations of me being Sami, by making me look like a pretender.

 

 

Edited by BlueInk
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11 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

So the way I see it is that a bunch of totally random people who are not breaking any official laws, will build up a network without any legal or financial obligations whatsoever. There won't be a clear leadership structure to this "organization", so nobody can be "toppled". There wont be a head to remove, that would kill the body.

Salam such network established since time of time of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) in name of “ Wikalah network” but even at their time all members didn’t know each other except that in special occasion Imam was introducing them to each other but after occultation of Imam Mahdi (aj) it’s become more secretive that currently are under command of Imam Mahdi (aj) until reappearance but anyone or any group that claims that is a part of of current “ Wikalah network “ of Imam Mahdi (aj) is a liar but story of some of them for approving existence of Imam Mahdi (aj) exposed after their death anyway according to some hadiths &stories there is always a fixed number of people are serving Imam Mahdi (aj) that after their death new people will replace them to keep that fixed number but during their life this group of people don’t expose any secrets that even sometimes some people are mistaking them with Imam when they receive aid of Imam through them in hardship. 

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2 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

You said he wasn't Sami. What is your evidence? Have you noticed the change in persona?

Salam, I can't prove that, and I think it's up to him to do that. But I personally am doubting it very much. To me Sami has a different writing style and sounded much older somehow. 

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2 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

 

@AkhiraisReal@313 Seeker @Syed.Dynasty You said he wasn't Sami. What is your evidence? Have you noticed the change in persona?

The reason I think he is Sami is because of the collection of beliefs he holds and his writing style (e.g. the structure of his sentences and his particular use of punctuation). Remember I was very active on this forum a few years ago, so I became aware of his posts. You said his beliefs are not exclusive to him. You are right he got some of them from some websites and added his own flavor to them; but it's the combination of beliefs that he holds which gives it away.

Different writing style, different methods or presentation and if you can feel it, the posters energies are different. I’ve come across a bunch of people who hold views as such. There are Hadith that say anyone who has any prior pledges can’t be among the 313, yet in American mandatory school systems everyone must say the pledge of allegiance every morning. In Canada the sing national anthem in which they say “oh Canada we stand on guard for thee”. Also the registration at birth is seen as children being entered into the corporate entity that is their birth country. (See https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=&match=&CIK=&filenum=&State=&Country=&SIC=8888&owner=exclude&Find=Find+Companies&action=getcompany ). The children reaffirming their pledge every morning, I believe, is another attempt at impeding our ability to be close to our Imam (may Allah hasten his glorious reappearance).

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