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In the Name of God بسم الله

Benefit Behind Salman Rushdie Fatwa

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When Salman Rushdie wrote the Satanic Verses it was indeed a very disingenuous effort on his part to wrongfully depict the Holy Prophet in such a manner which is indeed devoid of any truth whatsoever pertaining to his sublime character, unfortunately when questioned he would remark that Bukhari was used as a reference for his vile act. Now I understand as painful as it may be to lay idle as one man insults, slanders, and seeks to defame a figure which over 1.7 billion individuals revere greatly, however, I as a layman and Shia Muslim see that there served no benefit from the fatwa which called for the death of not only Salman Rushdie, but all those who aided in the configuration, translation, and in anyway shape or form contributed to the completion of the book. 

I see this as an issue which was downright counter intuitive, for it served to highlight to the world that as Muslims we do not tolerate any form of criticism (although dishonest). I am confident that it would have been a more beneficial and greater approach to the matter in not only the eyes of the public, but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as well, if instead of issuing a fatwa which would depict us as individuals who are against free speech to instead use that same method of media in producing a book which would show in every way shape or form how the Prophet is nothing like what was depicted in the satanic verses.

Sharing the same battlefield as the enemy and in a more civil and equitable means, for if they sought to draw their pens and defame us with falsehood we can indeed draw our pens of truth and vanquish whatever feeble attempts they may have had in their dishonest endeavors. With the publicity that the Islamic Government had at the time and the profound thinkers who have published phenomenal works, could they not had done such a thing and publicized a book which annihilates the foundation which was structured around the Satanic Verses.

Now one may say it would have affected the unity behind the Muslim Ummah as it could be a sort of stab at Bukhari, but I am sure the capability of the intellectuals could conjure a message which seeks to convey the pure sense of Islam without attacking the literature of the Sunni brothers. Instead of simply publicizing the book even more and depicting the Muslims as individuals who are intolerant, at a time when tolerance is especially needed for the good image of Islam, considering the book was written outside the jurisdiction of the Islamic state which is a very important point.

Blood is not something which I consider to be cheap, and the sanctity of human life within Islam is greatly considered. I don't think that mere translators whose job was simply to translate books many of whom they were ignorant to the context of the book and perhaps saw it as another fictional tale like any other fictitious book which was far from any political sense. To call for their blood to be shed righteously in Japan and elsewhere was inconsiderate to innocent blood. This fatwa did not benefit Islam and the Muslims and I am prepared to read attentively your remarks.

@Mahdavist @A_A @habib e najjaar @313 Seeker @AmirioTheMuzzy @Ashvazdanghe @The Green Knight

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When Salman Rushdie wrote the Satanic Verses it was indeed a very disingenuous effort on his part to wrongfully depict the Holy Prophet in such a manner which is indeed devoid of any truth whatsoever

It still had side-effects. It is frequently used in non-Muslim rhetoric, and it solidifies in the non-Muslim's mind that Islam is barbaric, Iran is "terrorist regime", free speech good, Western values

This is a provocateur type thread. Recommend locking.

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There are two parts to a hukm or fatwa. The first is issuing it, the second is following or executing it. In this instance only one half was carried out so the overall fatwa in essence became 'useless' because nobody followed up on it.

The message to any observers was that the Shia refer to their religious authorities for certain matters but ignore them in others and are therefore not a serious threat. 

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7 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

There are two parts to a hukm or fatwa. The first is issuing it, the second is following or executing it. In this instance only one half was carried out so the overall fatwa in essence became 'useless' because nobody followed up on it.

The message to any observers was that the Shia refer to their religious authorities for certain matters but ignore them in others and are therefore not a serious threat. 

Although the main target Salman Rushdie was not killed, many of those who worked in the book were, so I would say over half was carried out.

Irrespective of the way Shia refer to their religious authority, it is imperative that we examine the Fatwa in and of itself, even if it was not carried out. 

The enemies of Islam have been able to use it as a means of defaming our religion, do you agree that this fatwa did not serve the interest of Islam and the Muslims?

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I hate the portrayal of Rushdie as some lone guy writing a book. He had to be some paid agent / propagandist, because, out of nowhere, he brought back a thoroughly debunked narrative of the Prophet (s) being affected/influenced by shaitan (N'audhu billah). It is likely oriental propaganda work, which serves to get Western footholds in Muslim nations. 

Perhaps the fatwa effectively sent the message of "don't mess with the Muslims" to the Western powers. 

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22 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I can't say if it did or didn't because it was never carried out. 

It still had side-effects. It is frequently used in non-Muslim rhetoric, and it solidifies in the non-Muslim's mind that Islam is barbaric, Iran is "terrorist regime", free speech good, Western values good, Sheikhs bad, Theocracy bad, Secularism good. 

Not to condone that type of thinking. I hate how the kuffar wrongfully take everything they know as inherent or essential, and don't realize how their ideologies and social structures have affected their thinking, and how they arrogantly assume their way is the best.

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58 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I can't say if it did or didn't because it was never carried out. 

Respected brother it has not been carried out and the ramifications are already clear, I would say that it has been a motivation for haters if Islam to furthermore strengthen and back their agenda, as well as work towards the same purpose that he (salman rushdie) had.

We need to be weary of the cultural, legal, and political climate of not only ourselves, but the world around us. To say the least the world does not operate that way, and the repercussions that followed such a fatwa were evident.

I would also appreciate it if you can address the issue of those who worked behind the curtains in publishing, editing, and translating the book.

Did they deserve to die? Were they killed in cold blood? Are we going simply bat a blind eye or when we have done something wrong or supported something as such should at least have the bravery to own up to our mistakes in supporting such a fatwa.

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41 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Perhaps the fatwa effectively sent the message of "don't mess with the Muslims" to the Western powers. 

I believe that the message was more negative then positive in the benefit of the Muslim Ummah as a whole, and The Islamic Republic in particular.

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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

This is a provocateur type thread. Recommend locking.

What’s your problem?

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2 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

This fatwa did not benefit Islam and the Muslims and I am prepared to read attentively your remarks.

Thanks brother for tagging me but I don't know enough about this topic to contribute I believe. If I get any ideas or opinions about this I'll let you know. Thanks and may the Truth be with you!

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7 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

The fatwa cannot be cancelled and for a three decades this was used to attack both lRl and the al-Din.

 Bringing this up only serves Western/anti-lsIamic interests.

It cannot be cancelled, but it can be concluded that this did not serve in anyone’s interest.

Sayed Hassan still supports this Fatwa, and there are many others who do as well, bringing this up in a forum as such is not problematic, but may perhaps serve as a means of admonishing a brother/sister who may seek to carry it out God forbid. 

The sanctity of human life is imperative to preserve, and blood should not be shed, due to blatant ignorance of certain individuals.

I am not referring to Salman Rushdie, but others who were included within the Fatwa, we need to have the bravery to own up and say this was not right, that our leader did his ijtihad and under the Islamic sense his ruling was not in accordance to the teachings of the Qur'an.

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No matter how much someone wishes to pontificate, there is no need for this subject.

Also, lRl itself said that while the fatwa cannot be rescinded, it will not be enforced. About a decade ago.

Lastly, when it became know in the early 90s that Rushdie said at a social gathering party -as reported in the newspaper social columns- that he knew what kind of reaction it would trigger and that is why he wrote it --to sell his book-- the UK gov't began charging him for the costs of his police protection, which bankrupted him.

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4 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

Thanks brother for tagging me but I don't know enough about this topic to contribute I believe. If I get any ideas or opinions about this I'll let you know. Thanks and may the Truth be with you!

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you abundantly my dear brother JazakAllah

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2 hours ago, hasanhh said:

No matter how much someone wishes to pontificate, there is no need for this subject.

Also, lRl itself said that while the fatwa cannot be rescinded, it will not be enforced. About a decade ago.

Lastly, when it became know in the early 90s that Rushdie said at a social gathering party -as reported in the newspaper social columns- that he knew what kind of reaction it would trigger and that is why he wrote it --to sell his book-- the UK gov't began charging him for the costs of his police protection, which bankrupted him.

I really wish you would have said all these points before saying my thread should be locked. :( 

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1 minute ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you abundantly my dear brother JazakAllah

thank you dear brother. I can never overstate how grateful I am for decent people like you making duas to Allah for me. May all your best wishes be applied to you million fold!

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39 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Lastly, when it became know in the early 90s that Rushdie said at a social gathering party -as reported in the newspaper social columns- that he knew what kind of reaction it would trigger and that is why he wrote it --to sell his book-- the UK gov't began charging him for the costs of his police protection, which bankrupted him.

I can't find any source for this? Help

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53 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

No matter how much someone wishes to pontificate, there is no need for this subject.

Also, lRl itself said that while the fatwa cannot be rescinded, it will not be enforced. About a decade ago.

Why not rescind a fatwa, if it will not be enforced? Would a lack of enforcement defeat the purpose of a fatwa? Or could it be enforced at any time, but simply hasn't?

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1 hour ago, iCenozoic said:

Why not rescind a fatwa, if it will not be enforced? Would a lack of enforcement defeat the purpose of a fatwa? Or could it be enforced at any time, but simply hasn't?

Only the author of a fatwa can rescind it, as l understand.

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1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

I can't find any source for this? Help

This was at the same time as the rioting in Pakistan and Rushdie was at a party (NYC, Wash.D.C., ...) and his statement was in the syndicated social columns in the American newspapers. 1988 and 1989.

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Anyone else remember when South Park threw a tantrum because they weren't allowed to depict the Prophet s.a in their cartoon? "He wasn't doing anything offensive", they said. Us Muslims won't get on that slippery slope. The Christians did and now you can see Prophet Jesus dancing around and doing other ridiculous things on Family Guy.

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He even got knighthood from the Queen in 2007, I am convinced that his book was Western backed.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

He even got knighthood from the Queen in 2007, I am convinced that his book was Western backed.

l didn't know this. Probably because it was not widely advertised?

June, 2007 Knight Bachelor

 

ADDED: B.Liar was PM, so Rushdie was selected as a political statement.

"Who decides honors?" Not the Queen.  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19407451 

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4 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

Us Muslims won't get on that slippery slope. The Christians did and now you can see Prophet Jesus dancing around and doing other ridiculous things on Family Guy.

Muslims should protest heavy against this stuff. But alas, we would be even more hated. And I doubt they would even care about protests, they carry on to insult whatever they please, that's the culture, and that's virtuous to them. And I hate to say it, but if it wasn't for these over-emotional irrational terrorists, they would be insulting Rasulullah (s) too. They would just ignore normal Muslim protests. Human decency clearly doesn't compel them, only the threat of violence does. 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

This was at the same time as the rioting in Pakistan and Rushdie was at a party (NYC, Wash.D.C., ...) and his statement was in the syndicated social columns in the American newspapers. 1988 and 1989.

JazakAllah. But I can't find anything. All I could find from that timeframe is two newspaper articles, both from the Glasgow Herald.

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1988%2Ccd_max%3A1989&sxsrf=ALeKk00Fyhk2K3LKI5AYk3Bsulv_OxR7RQ%3A1586739175353&ei=57eTXqiVFajE0PEPz6eriAs&q=Salman+Rushdie+site%3Anews.google.com%2Fnewspapers&oq=Salman+Rushdie+site%3Anews.google.com%2Fnewspapers&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQA0oJCBcSBTEyLTc3SggIGBIEMTItOVCvrQFYgLYBYMy3AWgBcAB4AIABVYgBpwWSAQE5mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjopJeHmOToAhUoIjQIHc_TCrEQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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Of note,

Quote

On the Muslim side, the Iranian government saw the book as part of a British conspiracy against Islam. It broke diplomatic relations with UK on 7 March 1989 giving the explanation that "in the past two centuries Britain has been in the frontline of plots and treachery against Islam and Muslims", It accused the British of sponsoring Rushdie's book to use it as a political and cultural tact on earlier military plots that no longer worked.[71] It also saw itself as the victor of the controversy, with the European Community countries capitulating under Iranian pressure. "When Europeans saw that their economic interests in Muslim countries could be damaged, they began to correct their position on the issue of the insulting book. Every official started to condemn the book in one way or another. When they realised that Iran's reaction, its breaking of diplomatic relations with London, could also include them, they quickly sent back their ambassadors to Tehran to prevent further Iranian reaction".[72]

[71] Islamic Revolution News Agency, 7 March 1989
[72] Kayhan Havai, 18 April 1989

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_controversy#Social_and_political_fallout

Also of interest,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_controversy#On_Islamic_grounds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_controversy#Questions_of_political_motivation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses_controversy#Questions_of_personal_motivation

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58 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

l have found it very difficult to get any results for searches before the mid-90s.

Yup, the only solution is to head to the libraries and universities/colleges and use their micro-fiche machines I suppose... after the COVID-19 lockdown is over.

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6 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Yup, the only solution is to head to the libraries and universities/colleges and use their micro-fiche machines I suppose... after the COVID-19 lockdown is over.

Are the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature still used?

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On 4/12/2020 at 2:54 PM, Mohammad313Ali said:

This fatwa did not benefit Islam and the Muslims and I am prepared to read attentively your remarks.

Salam this matter is not about benefits for Islam or Pros & Cons but about protecting Islamic pillars even it costs sacrificing muslim blood 

Muhammad, the Apostle of Allah, and those who are with him are hard against the faithless and merciful amongst themselves.

مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّـهِ ۚ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ ۖ

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/48:29

On 4/12/2020 at 3:51 PM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

It still had side-effects. It is frequently used in non-Muslim rhetoric, and it solidifies in the non-Muslim's mind that Islam is barbaric, Iran is "terrorist regime", free speech good, Western values good, Sheikhs bad, Theocracy bad, Secularism good. 

Not to condone that type of thinking. I hate how the kuffar wrongfully take everything they know as inherent or essential, and don't realize how their ideologies and social structures have affected their thinking, and how they arrogantly assume their way is the best.

anyway they would say it about Islam & Iran without this Fatwa or without it because this book was written based on sunni sources & knowing reaction of Sunni community that their response would be a blind barbaric reaction same as current reaction of wahabists & Salafists to drawings of prophet Muhammad (pbu)  that lead to terrorist attack to Hebdo magazine in France that at the end Arab leaders specially KSA had to apologize from france but response of shias & Iran by Fatwa of Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) was a phenomenon that anti Islam propaganda system was not ready for it that Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) fatwa caused that they stop their future plan for more insults & weakening pillars of Islam even between whole muslim community also Fatwa of Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) caused good vibes for shia muslims inside sunni countries that neutralized wahabi/Salafi propaganda against Shias after Iran revolution even it caused that viewpoint of some sunnis activists that were seeking for reforms in Islam  positively changed about Shia muslims & Iran that even a group of them like Sheikh Zakzaki became shia muslims under affect of his fatwa that leads to converting Nigerians to Shia Islam under affect of Sheikh Zakzaki even Dr Tijani mentioned good affect of Imam Khomeini's Fatwa on Islamic community that it was like a light for finding right path of Islam when whole muslim community was loosing it's true path under wahabi influence that showed which party is defending Islam even by sacrificing itself & which party is weakening Islam by blind barbaric action ideology but at the end will make peace deal with enemies of Islam like zionists.

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As far as I know the Islamic verdict about "sabb of nabi (insulting prophet)" would be death penalty. So the main benefit behind this fatwa is the same benefit behind other Islamic rules, praying, fasting, hajj, etc. And that's taking our responsibility. 

22 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

The enemies of Islam have been able to use it as a means of defaming our religion, do you agree that this fatwa did not serve the interest of Islam and the Muslims?

Why should we care as long as we are acting in accordance with Islam? They defame Islam for many other rulings. Should we rescind them all? They live in their own world. They eat and drink many things we don't, they have same sex marriage and call others who oppose it extremist, they regard (ghesas) death penalty as an inhumane act, while we sentence rapists to death, they make them president. 

Also something about their hypocrisy:

Quote

When Muslims protest to such moves, the western media and politician proffer the lame excuse of freedom of expression, but when there are calls for probing the myth of the holocaust, these same self-styled protectors of freedom of expression, muffle all voices. This is indeed hypocrisy. Paragraph 3 of Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights says: enforcement of freedom of expression requires observance of specific duties and responsibilities. In other words there are limits and restrictions. For example, clause ‘A’ calls for respect of the rights and dignity of others, while clause ‘B’ cites dangers to national security, public health and morals. Moreover Article 20 forbids any incitement to religious hatred. Ironically, the US and the European Human Rights covenants have accepted these restrictions, yet they allow free reign to satanic elements to indulge in Islamophobial and insulting of Islamic sanctities.

https://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=11539

Many other things can be said about this issue, but regarding the benefit behind it, as I said, it's "doing our duty".

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@kamyar Brother thank you for you valued input 

Can you kindly address this point as well.

23 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

I don't think that mere translators whose job was simply to translate books many of whom they were ignorant to the context of the book and perhaps saw it as another fictional tale like any other fictitious book which was far from any political sense. To call for their blood to be shed righteously in Japan and elsewhere was inconsiderate to innocent blood.

I believe the issue of the antagonist has been squared away, but what about these individuals?

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