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Hussain Haider Bilgrami

Nadeem Sarwar's monopolisation

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Salam Alaikum

Now, I commonly listen to nohas/latimiyyats/nasheeds in multiple languages, but usually I just listen to them in my mother tongue Urdu.
When you think of famous noha reciters, you may think of people like Bassim Karbalaei, or Abdolreza Helali, or Nadeem Sarwar
Nadeem Sarwar is likely the most famous Urdu noha reciter and one of the most famous noha reciters in the world in fact
Most Pakistani Shias have very positive views of him, and I wouldn't really say he is a bad person.
However, I really think he has monopolised Ashura in a way. I want to hear other people's views on this

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No doubt Nadeem Sarwar is one of the most popular Noha khawn in Urdu language but there are other Noha khawns like Mir Hassan Mir, Farhan Ali Waris, Ali Safdar and others. They are all spreading the message of the Prophet saw and his progeny by means of Noha, manqabt and qaseda. 

Thus saying it alone that Nadeem Sarwar has monopolized  Ashura does not seem correct. 

wasalam

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In this context, 'monopolies' are created by the masses and not by the recitors themselves. As long as people persist with this 'fan club' culture it will remain alive. 

Personally I am in favour of encouraging local recitations and recitors, in line with the local culture of whichever region they are in. 

I don't understand the following concepts:

-video clips of eulogies (especially ones involving auto tune, studios, directors and producers)

-inviting 'world famous' recitors 

-the culture of playing eulogies as background music

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all

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5 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

No doubt Nadeem Sarwar is one of the most popular Noha khawn in Urdu language but there are other Noha khawns like Mir Hassan Mir, Farhan Ali Waris, Ali Safdar and others. They are all spreading the message of the Prophet saw and his progeny by means of Noha, manqabt and qaseda. 

Thus saying it alone that Nadeem Sarwar has monopolized  Ashura does not seem correct. 

wasalam

Yes but the thing is Mir Hasan Mir and Farhan Ali Waris & others are different. You see they are humble people.
Nadeem Sarwar recites noha at the majlis I go to in England. Every time he is here the host of the majlis is like "Nadeem is the greatest man in this place oh how blessed we are to live in the same era as him" and Nadeem doesn't even say anything to stop him, almost as if I wants to be praised like this in a gathering for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)????

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49 minutes ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Yes but the thing is Mir Hasan Mir and Farhan Ali Waris & others are different. You see they are humble people.
Nadeem Sarwar recites noha at the majlis I go to in England. Every time he is here the host of the majlis is like "Nadeem is the greatest man in this place oh how blessed we are to live in the same era as him" and Nadeem doesn't even say anything to stop him, almost as if I wants to be praised like this in a gathering for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)????

Salam brother 

I think we should refrain from speaking about such pointless topics. It doesn't benefit us but will leed to backbiting. 

Salam

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We will be asked. About how we spent the money Allah entrusted us with. I don't know figures but I know the more famous the reciter the more the cost. And it's probably thousands of pounds in a year for a single institution with regular programs.

We have created a system which he can monopolise.

"Don't hate the player hate the game" (ice T)

Ps music is haram I'm in no way  supporting it. 

Edited by Warilla

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5 hours ago, Warilla said:

We will be asked. About how we spent the money Allah entrusted us with. I don't know figures but I know the more famous the reciter the more the cost. And it's probably thousands of pounds in a year for a single institution with regular programs.

We have created a system which he can monopolise.

"Don't hate the player hate the game" (ice T)

Ps music is haram I'm in no way  supporting it. 

Noha isn't music, therefore not haram. Noha is recitation of the tragedies of the Ahlul Bayt.

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38 minutes ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Noha isn't music, therefore not haram. Noha is recitation of the tragedies of the Ahlul Bayt.

It’s pretty much music these days. I couldn’t tell a Bollywood hit apart from a noha.

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1 hour ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Noha isn't music, therefore not haram. Noha is recitation of the tragedies of the Ahlul Bayt.

In talking about the Ice T quote at the end. He was a rapper.

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32 minutes ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Ps music is haram I'm in no way  supporting it. 

If music was haram you should put cotton in your ear whenever you hear the Adhan or chanting recitation of the Quran. Music is rhythmic organization of tones. Calling some music "non-music" doesn't make it less rhythmically organized tones. Yes some music is haram as from a list of given criteria such as whether it brings you further from or closer to God, whether it promotes haram acts or not, is usually played in mixed gathering where haram act might occur or has certain complicated characteristics mentioned in some hadiths. Pop music would usually be haram but military marching band would not. Even the Salafis, who think that Sufi music and Shia mourning poetry is haram, have no trouble singing revolutionary songs celebrating suicide bombers. I think it is the intention that is important. If rhythmically organized tones brings you or others closer to God you are good to go.
I would agree that Nadeem Sarwar sound quite "Bollywoodish" as compared to chanting Quran recitation and I think he is a bit to slick for my taste, but I think his intention is good. It would of cause be a problem if it was played in a disco or nightclub, but I think it would even be problematic to play the Adhan or chanting Quran recitations in such places.

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3 hours ago, 786:) said:

It’s pretty much music these days. I couldn’t tell a Bollywood hit apart from a noha.

There are many mankabat with music these days and it should be avoided at all cost but I have hardly seen urdu Nauha with Music. Comparing Eulogy of Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) to Bollywood songs cannot be a lesser sin. 

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On 4/13/2020 at 11:06 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

There are many mankabat with music these days and it should be avoided at all cost but I have hardly seen urdu Nauha with Music. Comparing Eulogy of Ahlulbayt (عليهم اسلام) to Bollywood songs cannot be a lesser sin. 

If you see the video clips that they play on religious channels these days, sadly some of them look like musical concerts. This started in Iran and has now spread to other cultures. 

After seeing these clips on television and youtube the next step that the masses have taken is to imitate these in live events, meaning that there are real gatherings today where famous recitors climb on stage with their entourage and go through their 'top hits' while the crowd pull out their phones and film them.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all. 

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8 hours ago, 786:) said:

Random question. Do you think nohas are holy? Meaning they are beyond criticism?

Not necessarily
Depends, why would you want to criticise noha? 

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On 4/13/2020 at 7:53 AM, 786:) said:

Random question. Do you think nohas are holy? Meaning they are beyond criticism?

Salam Noha’s are not holy but never mind it’s just another Safavid innovation :hahaha: 

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In my community, Farhan Ali Waris and Meer Hassan Meer are more famous. Nadeem Sarwar has given us great nohas. There's only so much new content a creative person can create. Few years ago, there were rumors of him getting a second wife. I think that's the real reason people oppose him. People started disliking him only after he did a second marriage. 

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20 hours ago, MuhammadFreeman said:

Dude, that's not even remotely true. The older generation look up to Sacchay bhai way more than Nadeem Sarwar. And there are many artists, not just Nadeem Sarwar. There isn't a monopolization

A lot of you aren't understanding. Basically, my point is that I don't think of the dude as a very humble guy as I see him getting praised in a gathering for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and he doesn't even try to change the topic, and whenever he makes his own version of someone else's noha, he gets millions of views while the original noha reciter is left in the dust.

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1 hour ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

A lot of you aren't understanding. Basically, my point is that I don't think of the dude as a very humble guy as I see him getting praised in a gathering for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and he doesn't even try to change the topic, and whenever he makes his own version of someone else's noha, he gets millions of views while the original noha reciter is left in the dust.

This sounds more like the fault of the public. Whether a person gets a million views or not isn't determined by them. If they're getting praised excessively then maybe those doing the praising should reevaluate their choice of words.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all

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On 4/15/2020 at 4:15 PM, Mahdavist said:

This sounds more like the fault of the public. Whether a person gets a million views or not isn't determined by them. If they're getting praised excessively then maybe those doing the praising should reevaluate their choice of words.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all

Yes man but in a gathering of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) he doesn't tell them to stop. He should tell them to stop.

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14 minutes ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Yes man but in a gathering of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) he doesn't tell them to stop. He should tell them to stop.

You are judging him based on only one thing. To me, he doesn't look arrogant at all. He always looks insecure and even sad. I think he has seen very hard time, that's why so much fame and success couldn't make him happy and confident. There are some people who always look perfect while I have seen Nadeem Sarwar with greesy hair and simple clothes. That's a sign of humility and it shows he doesn't think of himself as a celebrity and works very hard. I think some people are just jealous of him, that's why they have started this whole campaign against him. I don't understand the reason. He is not even famous anymore and he is struggling to keep up with the competition. Leave him alone. 

Edited by rkazmi33

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10 hours ago, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Yes man but in a gathering of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) he doesn't tell them to stop. He should tell them to stop.

This is a weak argument where the responsibility of the actions of the masses are being shifted onto an individual. Each person is responsible for their own actions. 

By the way I don't have any personal interest in defending this brother. 

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On 4/13/2020 at 2:03 PM, Mahdavist said:

If you see the video clips that they play on religious channels these days, sadly some of them look like musical concerts. This started in Iran and has now spread to other cultures. 

After seeing these clips on television and youtube the next step that the masses have taken is to imitate these in live events, meaning that there are real gatherings today where famous recitors climb on stage with their entourage and go through their 'top hits' while the crowd pull out their phones and film them.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all. 

I agree brother

From my childhood I remember The most moving commemoration was a poor old man who used to recite it in our family majalis,  he had a terrible voice,  dressed poorly  and was totally non glamorous but due to the sincerity of his emotions and raw pain in his voice brought everyone to tears 

Nowadays muhammrram commemoration has become our own K pop [ k for karbala]

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On 4/18/2020 at 9:38 PM, rkazmi33 said:

You are judging him based on only one thing. To me, he doesn't look arrogant at all. He always looks insecure and even sad. I think he has seen very hard time, that's why so much fame and success couldn't make him happy and confident. There are some people who always look perfect while I have seen Nadeem Sarwar with greesy hair and simple clothes. That's a sign of humility and it shows he doesn't think of himself as a celebrity and works very hard. I think some people are just jealous of him, that's why they have started this whole campaign against him. I don't understand the reason. He is not even famous anymore and he is struggling to keep up with the competition. Leave him alone. 

bro you're not understanding. Also, your point about him not being famous anymore; I literally just stated (and this is a fact) that when he literally copies someone's noha his recitation gets millions of views while the original reciter is forgotten. Now, forgive me if this is wrong, I don't take hear-say for facts, but apparently he also accidentally said "cut the cr*p" during one of his recitations because my mic wasn't working, I saw a lot of people talk about this. I don't know if it's true. But anyway, just because he wears the same clothes that literally everyone wears on ashura, doesn't mean he's now a begger on the streets or something. You think he's gonna show up wearing a tie with stripes on it and a suit? How does that prove anything

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Here are a few examples:
This is the original noha

Here is Nadeem Sarwar's version

If you click on it, you'll see that the original one has 1/10th of the amount of views that Nadeem Sarwar's son's recitation has

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In both of these, he doesn't even credit Mahmoud Kareemi. I personally don't hate Nadeem Sarwar, I don't think he is a bad person, but I don't like what he is doing. The least he could've done is even just say "this is a noha initially recited by Mahmoud Kareemi"

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3 hours ago, Be Human First1 said:

For Fame and to stay in lime light of given society or community.

I blame the community then for promoting such things. Try going into a conservative muslim community and singing nasheeds on the stage. They will escort you out before you have finished your first line.

We are willing to accept anything and everything in the name of ' 'aza ' and this is where it has led us to.  

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On 4/12/2020 at 8:40 PM, Hussain Haider Bilgrami said:

Salam Alaikum

Now, I commonly listen to nohas/latimiyyats/nasheeds in multiple languages, but usually I just listen to them in my mother tongue Urdu.
When you think of famous noha reciters, you may think of people like Bassim Karbalaei, or Abdolreza Helali, or Nadeem Sarwar
Nadeem Sarwar is likely the most famous Urdu noha reciter and one of the most famous noha reciters in the world in fact
Most Pakistani Shias have very positive views of him, and I wouldn't really say he is a bad person.
However, I really think he has monopolised Ashura in a way. I want to hear other people's views on this

He sums up all that is wrong with Shism today, an open exaggerator and performer. Wallahi the ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) are free from this kind of filth.

these are not the people to look up to. We should be following the example of Ali (عليه السلام) trying to be like him.   

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14 hours ago, UndercoverBrother said:

He sums up all that is wrong with Shism today, an open exaggerator and performer. Wallahi the ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) are free from this kind of filth.

these are not the people to look up to. We should be following the example of Ali (عليه السلام) trying to be like him.   

What is even more unfortunate is that the subcontinent finds these performers to be holy and rely upon their words for deen.

Theres this famous line of poetry in the subcontinent that usually gets recited during fadhayl: “When I called upon Allah, Ali came. When Ali came, my life came.” (Obviously this is a loose English translation of the Urdu)

They will scream night and day that it is not shirk, but let’s not kid ourselves. Shirk has been so conditioned into these subcontinent performers’ lyrics, now the public is numb to it.

Edited by 786:)

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15 hours ago, UndercoverBrother said:

Wallahi the ahlul bayt (عليه السلام) are free from this kind of filth.

A person hiding behind a keyboard using such profanity against someone who has served and lamented Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) on the pulpits all over the world for decades.

16 hours ago, UndercoverBrother said:

We should be following the example of Ali (عليه السلام) trying to be like him.

Good job 'following the example of Ali (as)' 

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