Why do you not accept Sunni Islam?

[Muslim2010 3,523]

On 5/12/2020 at 2:51 AM, Guest Geranimo said:

Wasalam brother I am talking about hadith of 12 caliphs and you go on a tangent about wahab a salafi etc, I am Sufi brother honestly stick to the point it’s CLEAR only 2 imams ever ruled non others did and they wasn’t successful as the hadith states they will be successful.

Shia believe inline with the verses of quran that all the representatives of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are chosen by order of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the guidance of the nations. The people has no authority of it and there  is no example of any caliph/ imam / leader chosen by the people for their guidance. As guidance comes from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) so all the chosen representatives including prophets/ imams/ leaders/ caliphs as mentioned in Quran have been chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) alone for the guidance  of the people. 

There are only a few of these representatives of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  actually governed in land but still they are chosen representatives of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

For example there are 1,24,000 prophets and only few of them govern inland but they are chosen representatives of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the guidance of the people. As the verses of Quran mentions that way of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) does not change so the same principle is applicable  for 12 imams from the progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). They are chosen representatives of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as and it is not mandatory that should govern in land. Just for your information that he hadiths mention that last of them Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) knows as 12th imam will come and fill the earth with peace and justice. He will govern inland to get the rule of Islam over the entire world. 

Wasalam

Edited May 13, 2020 by Muslim2010

[Guest Geranimo]

12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

anyway until now no Sunni layman from any sect Sufi or Wahabi or Barelvi & rest of sunni sects couldn't respond to these questions which instead of any satisfactory response which Sufis just say that we love 12 Imams as descendants of prophet Muhammad (pbu) but we don't follow them & radicals like Wahabists say that "we don't  worship them "  but they can't prove any strong evidence about their claims about following "Quran & Sunnah" that refuted countless time from their books by Shia laymen but following " Quran & Ahlulbayt " approved strongly from both holy Quran & any Sunni source but response of Wahabists until know was making noise & martyring Shias and Suffis response is ignoring the truth & making illusions instead of thinking & saying that we follow majority in following so called " Quran & Sunnah "  because our fathers did it that is similar to what every idol worshipers & polytheists said to prophets & Messengers & if you say that born Shias also follow their fathers too but they can do research about any religion & sect to find about truth that is highly recommended in Shia Islam  unlike Sunni sects that limited themselves to their father's religion & dogmatic perspective that all Sunni sects are against searching about other religions except that you do it to absorb other people to their sects that until now all so called Dawa men & women couldn't respond to shia Questions except ignoring by propaganda against shias or rejecting it with violence.

walaikum asalam
I have responded and I will again and I am just a layman honestly there is a bigger world out there than SC.

quran and sunnah was said in front of ALL the Muslims at the last hajj.

quran and ahlubaith was said at ghadeer khum where only the people travelling towards Madina etc were going AFTER the last hajj.

its pretty simple quran and sunnah was for ALL Muslims quran and ahlubaith (not even following but to treat ahlubaith well) was for the travellers back to Madina.

yes do learn knowledge it’s out there Alhamdulillah we are encouraged to learn and I/WE do answer shias, I answered on 12 khaliphs where only 2 shia imams ever ruled and you have NOTHING but some tangent about Sunni this and that and blah blah.

more like you are following your forefathers because you can’t seem to answer why Shias use Our 12 caliph hadith to justify 12 divine imams yet in reality only 2 imams ruled.

come on Ash give us something so we can’t answer a shia back lol.

[Mohammadi_follower 1,728]

One element that make me staying Shia is also the fact that generally sunnis are not interrested about what happened after the death of the Prophet (saws) while shias yes. And I found disturbing that most sunnis found irrelevant such things. 

[Man Kunto Maula 47]

4 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

One element that make me staying Shia is also the fact that generally sunnis are not interrested about what happened after the death of the Prophet (saws) while shias yes. And I found disturbing that most sunnis found irrelevant such things. 

I will add one more then :

In saving and defending the (so called few) sahabas and their respect, sunnis go so far as insulting the propeht (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and this is completely fine for them as far as the respect of sahabas is maintained. 

 

For example, as the forefathers of most of the sahabas were kafirs, they say hazrat abu talib (عليه السلام) was also a kafir, in saying this, they do not even think for a moment that they are targeting prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). because would you ever believe that prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was raised by kafir ????

while Quran states that not a single prophet used to eat from non muslim mother or father who were smaller prophet as compared to our prophet .(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

 

Another example is prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) asked for a pen and paper during his last moments, he was denied by hazt umar saying prophet is affected by magic. 

Now sunnis say hazt umar was correct. These sunnis do not even think for a moment that in defending the sahaba they are insulting propeht (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

Would u ever believe prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) gets affected by magic????

if your answer is yes then it raises a serious question .... 

"Is the Quran really authentic" ???????????

 

All brainless people out there !!!

 

[Ashvazdanghe 8,216]

10 hours ago, Guest Geranimo said:

quran and sunnah was said in front of ALL the Muslims at the last hajj.

quran and ahlubaith was said at ghadeer khum where only the people travelling towards Madina etc were going AFTER the last hajj.

Salam it's just your claim but even sunni scholars said & accepted that " Quran & Sunnah" just mentioned by few individuals in unknown place like someone that passed a way & heard part of a speech but "Quran & Ahlulbayt" said many times that it recorded by majority of people that were present at Qadeer Khum that if you read your own books you will find the truth that you can find all sources in following video & link (s) then if you not convinced then my religion for mine & your religion for yours until judgment day because your idea refuted many times in this site by multiple usersc that you can find it with a little research 

Quran & Sunnah OR Quran & Ahlulbayt? (in Sunni narrations)

https://www.quora.com/Was-it-hold-tight-to-the-Quran-and-the-Ahlulbayt-or-the-Quran-and-the-Sunnah-doings-of-the-prophet

https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/quran-and-ahlul-bayt

http://en.wikishia.net/view/Sunna

[Mohammadi_follower 1,728]

Also to be honnest I found Shia narrations more credible than sunni narrations. 

[OrthodoxTruth 786]

10 hours ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

I will add one more then :

In saving and defending the (so called few) sahabas and their respect, sunnis go so far as insulting the propeht (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and this is completely fine for them as far as the respect of sahabas is maintained. 

That’s so true. The first three usurpers and two daughters of theirs, were literally made into infallible and perfect beings just to take away the rights of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). In Sunni hadiths, Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is made into sinful, naive, ignorant and careless person but his Companions many times outweigh his status. Take for example Umar. Sunnis have ahadith saying that the “justice ended on Earth with his death”, “if there was a prophet it would be Umar”, that he corrected - many times aggressively and disrespectfully - the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) on multiple occasions in regard to the religion, that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allegedly always took the side of Umar, that Umar said something and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sent it as a Quranic verse and so on. Umayyads were very busy fabricating hadiths to the point of narrations’ illogical ridiculousness. Sunnis reject the concept of Imamah yet follow sinful and fallible individuals who insulted the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) throughout his life. And all are in paradise. Fabulous religion.

[AmirioTheMuzzy 1,194]

11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Quran & Sunnah OR Quran & Ahlulbayt? (in Sunni narrations)

Also, 

 

[Man Kunto Maula 47]

On 5/14/2020 at 3:46 PM, OrthodoxTruth said:

That’s so true. The first three usurpers and two daughters of theirs, were literally made into infallible and perfect beings just to take away the rights of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). In Sunni hadiths, Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) is made into sinful, naive, ignorant and careless person but his Companions many times outweigh his status. Take for example Umar. Sunnis have ahadith saying that the “justice ended on Earth with his death”, “if there was a prophet it would be Umar”, that he corrected - many times aggressively and disrespectfully - the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) on multiple occasions in regard to the religion, that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allegedly always took the side of Umar, that Umar said something and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sent it as a Quranic verse and so on. Umayyads were very busy fabricating hadiths to the point of narrations’ illogical ridiculousness. Sunnis reject the concept of Imamah yet follow sinful and fallible individuals who insulted the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) throughout his life. And all are in paradise. Fabulous religion.

Well let me tell you a true incident that happened with me few weeks ago.

I had a debate with tablighi jamaat guys and I quoted the most famous Hadith to them : 

"I am the city of knowledge and Ali (عليه السلام) is its gate."As as soon as the tablighi guy heard this, he added "oh and the Hadith you have quoted is incomplete , prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). said " "I am the city of knowledge and Ali (عليه السلام) is its gate and my sahaba are the "walls" of the city.

As soon as I heard this, I burst into laughter, I mean these guys are completely logicless, brainless and the OSCAR winning stupids to walk on earth !! (No offense by the way)

Tell me what does a wall do??

If you move towards the wall to enter the city , you will be hit by the wall and you will fall back or to enter the city you either need to climb the wall or break it (obviously they will never enter through the door since he is IMAM ALI (عليه السلام) )so logically meaning the sahabas(as per sunni "newly launched hadith") are the walls that will never allow you to reach the knowledge of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or if you wish to get access to the prophet's knowledge, you either need to break the wall or climb it (kill the sahaba or they act as hurdle between you and the islam of prophet)

I really wonder....do they not even think for a moment what they are speaking????

[OrthodoxTruth 786]

2 minutes ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Well let me tell you a true incident that happened with me few weeks ago.

I had a debate with tablighi jamaat guys and I quoted the most famous Hadith to them : 

"I am the city of knowledge and Ali (عليه السلام) is its gate."As as soon as the tablighi guy heard this, he added "oh and the Hadith you have quoted is incomplete , prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). said " "I am the city of knowledge and Ali (عليه السلام) is its gate and my sahaba are the "walls" of the city.

As soon as I heard this, I burst into laughter, I mean these guys are completely logicless, brainless and the OSCAR winning stupids to walk on earth !! (No offense by the way)

Tell me what does a wall do??

If you move towards the wall to enter the city , you will be hit by the wall and you will fall back or to enter the city you either need to climb the wall or break it (obviously they will never enter through the door since he is IMAM ALI (عليه السلام) )so logically meaning the sahabas(as per sunni "newly launched hadith") are the walls that will never allow you to reach the knowledge of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or if you wish to get access to the prophet's knowledge, you either need to break the wall or climb it (kill the sahaba or they act as hurdle between you and the islam of prophet)

I really wonder....do they not even think for a moment what they are speaking????

Brother, these people are zealots, deaf led by the blind. If a hadith doesn’t confirm with their beliefs they either remove it from the books, apply super strict criteria deeming it weak (daif), or they add things to it. How can you take these people seriously when they curse the killer of Umar, yet say that the killer of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) made an error but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgave him. This is the mentality we have to deal with since 1400 years. 

[Ashvazdanghe 8,216]

5 hours ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

need to climb the wall or break it (obviously they will never enter through the door since he is IMAM ALI (عليه السلام) )so logically meaning the sahabas(as per sunni "newly launched hadith") are the walls that will never allow you to reach the knowledge of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or if you wish to get access to the prophet's knowledge, you either need to break the wall or climb it (kill the sahaba or they act as hurdle between you and the islam of prophet)

I really wonder....do they not even think for a moment what they are speaking????

Salam in ther word "climbing or breaking the wall " means that they are thieves that minimum punishment for them is cutting their hands or punish them like people tht drunk urine of camel in Sahih Bukhari.

 

[Man Kunto Maula 47]

On 5/16/2020 at 12:06 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam in ther word "climbing or breaking the wall " means that they are thieves that minimum punishment for them is cutting their hands or punish them like people tht drunk urine of camel in Sahih Bukhari.

 

Now that's amazing!!!

So now they have taken the entire deen from yahudis (kab al ahbar and beloved abu hurraira) and those who follow them, they are considered thieves as well.. 

So where is the deen...??

what are they following in the name of deen??

Now I understand why Allah made the wilayat of Imam ALi (عليه السلام) as wajib...!!

[Muslim2010 3,523]

21 minutes ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

what are they following in the name of deen??

Now I understand why Allah made the wilayat of Imam ALi (عليه السلام) as wajib...!!

اللَّهُ وَلِيُّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا يُخْرِجُهُم مِّنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ ۖ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَوْلِيَاؤُهُمُ الطَّاغُوتُ يُخْرِجُونَهُم مِّنَ النُّورِ إِلَى الظُّلُمَاتِ ۗ أُولَٰئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ

Shakir:  Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide. (2:257)

[Kirmani 414]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:06 AM, Guest Geranimo said:

Pretty simple really layman Sunnis can answer them 2 questions without batting an eyelid  that Quran and ahlubaith it wasn’t said at the last hajj rather after the last sermon when everybody went home in different directions, It wasn’t even to follow but to remind us of our duty in looking after the ahlubaith, adhere to Quran and sunna was said at last hajj where ALL the Muslims were gathered, trust me EVERY Sunni imam knows this unless you are being disingenuous.

Again being disingenuous ANY layman Sunni who knows a little will answer your caliphate question too pretty simple, if you read the hadith of 12 caliphs then only 2 shia imams ever ruled, the hadith says Islam will be triumphant yet other imams never ruled or were triumphant so it definitely is not the 12 who you think it is.

was you really a Sunni? If you was this information is easily available and every Sunni knows these basic facts.

1) Quran and Ahle Bayt hadith is CLEARLY mentioned in Sahih Sittah to have taken place at GHADEER KHUMM. As you admitted also it was the last sermon. The location is also a meeqat for Hajj northwest of Mecca. Considering the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) did Hajj only once in his life which was therefore his first and last hajj what else was he doing at this meeqat? Disingenuous are the ones that purposely don't put 2 and 2 together when all the clear facts are right in front of them.

2) Again the hadiths in Muslim are explicitly clear regarding the 12 caliphs "The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth)" and "I joined the company of the Prophet (ﷺ) with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish."

http://sunnah.com/muslim/33/4

http://sunnah.com/muslim/33/5

The wordings clearly imply the caliphate will remain with the 12, which means they are successive without break. Yes only 2 Imams physically ruled, that doesn't mean we don't consider the other 10, for us we consider all 12 caliphs and have followed them as such and the Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)'s words declares them to be the rightful 12 and fits that narrative perfectly. What's the excuse of any layman sunni as per your words to explain the 12 in succession logic? Again disingenuous is the one clearly ignoring the words that imply that the 12 will be in succession.

Quote

was you really a Sunni? If you was this information is easily available and every Sunni knows these basic facts.

I believe you meant "WERE you really a sunni?" and "if you were". Unless you went to school with Ali G then it's understandable.

Yes I was a sunni from a 100% moderate sunni family having been born and raised and schooled in Saudi Arabia where I received and grew up on wahabi ideology, so therefore a former wahabi at that. And I clearly went through numerous sunni hadiths such as bukhari and muslim (which are very readily available online for people like you to go through like the links I shared above as per your words, since clearly you and every sunni have either not read them and don't know these basic facts or are just being disingenuous)