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Why do you not accept Sunni Islam?

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I can write a book on this and explain. Why should I care for a doctrine based on a book that records 46 hadiths from Ali Hassan Hussain and Fatima while it takes 11000+ hadiths from a Jew who re

Because it has no clear basis. It's simply a case of going with the flow. Whoever has the most power, influence or money in any one era determines which way sunnism will swing. 

Thanks for your feedback brother. You are correct in the sense that there are influences in every day and age. However, the basis and core fundamentals of shi'ism are removed from power and polit

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On 4/11/2020 at 2:12 PM, Life2020 said:

-Madkhalism. To reject rebelling against leaders no matter how bad they are, which is why some Sunnis believe that Imam Hussain AS was wrong to rebel against Yazid. This point really strikes me. If we are to adopt this view point, that we shouldn't rebel against corrupt leader, it can allow the leaders to innovate for there own gains, we are told time after time not to obey sinners, yet I can't understand how this viewpoint is held by some of Sunni school  of thought.

That’s is an interesting point and something that does not personally sit right with me. 
 

however did you know that خروج is even blameworthy amongst the Shia and even condemned. Read up on urwa tul wuthqa and what the author says about this issue. 
 

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28 minutes ago, UndercoverBrother said:

however did you know that خروج >>without an imam<< is forbidden amongst the Shia and even condemned. Read up on urwa tul wuthqa and what the author says about this issue.

Fixed.

 

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On 4/16/2020 at 1:20 AM, dika_xan said:

We will become the people of Imam Mahdi (mghr). He will unite all Muslims

Now doubt you have mentioned the truth. But I like  to add here that for us Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) is the 9th descendant  of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). That means for us to be united under Imam Al Mahdi (عليه السلام) who is the bearer of Imamah of our time chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) from the progeny of the prophet Muhamamd (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

I agree. wasalam

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On 4/17/2020 at 3:54 AM, UndercoverBrother said:

Thanks for the clarification. Have you read it?
 

practically speaking it’s not allowed then. We should all think about that 

Salam in shia Islam standing against tyrants even tyrant Muslim rulers highly advised but level of it depends on situation that lowest point of It is discomfort in your heart & highest level of it is martyrdom in خروج against any tyrant ruler even a tyrant Muslims ruler but in Sunni side you can’t even criticize your ruler in your heart that nowadays Wahabist go further even a Muslim ruler breaks whole Islamic rules visibly in front of a large crowd such as he drinks wine in a live show then becomes naked & rapes wife of another Muslim then kills her in front of audiences  you can’t criticize him even inside your mind.

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Posted (edited)

image.png.d598d738c0b20fbf8905181beecea736.png
 

for me this is a very important hujjah. i was a Sunni. Sunnis can argue about The fact that there are no specifics, no ayah about 12 imam, but the Quran is very clear about the the descendants of Nabi Ibrahim (عليه السلام) being Imams. An Imam isn’t just loved but not followed. He has to be followed. Any madhab which rejects this meaning of the Ayah IMHO, cannot be followed.

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13 hours ago, GD41586 said:

Yet another reason why I have found SC to be such a blessing & an amazingly helpful resource in my pursuit of Islam (Inshallah, I'll get there eventually)

Thanks my friend we wait for your return to the religion based on the truth that is followed by Shia of Imams.

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On 4/11/2020 at 5:43 PM, Warilla said:

Same can be said of Shia zaydi, Ismaili, 12er etc,  idrisid, fatamids , safavid, even within 12er akhbari/ usooli. There will be more power shifts and ideological shifts to come. But with social media and accessibility it might not be as extreme. 

And every group will say we are correct and the original creed regardless of the political landscape and who the population follow.

12vers has always been with 12 imams lol.
No matter which group is in power, their aqaid are same.

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4 hours ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

12vers has always been with 12 imams lol.
No matter which group is in power, their aqaid are same.

12er is a sub group of Shia just like there are many groups of Sunni. And the majority opinion is dependent on political power. Although to a lesser extent in this super information era.

As for 12er aqeeda being the same. It's a complex subject. As the history of Shia aqeeda development is not straight forward. 

But then every sect (Sunni or Shia) claim. There view is the original unchanged version.

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On 4/11/2020 at 4:42 PM, Life2020 said:

Often we are asked why we are Shi'a, but hardly does anyone ask why don't we accept Sunni Islam, I'd be interested in hearing everyones views about why they have/haven't considered becoming Sunni.

These are my few views:

-Shi'a Islam was during the time of the Prophet (S), the Qur'an is with Ali and Ali is with the Qur'an. I leave behind two things. You are to me what Aaron is to Moses. Companions such as Salman al-Farsi, Abu Thar, who weren't present in designating a successor would have backed Imam Ali (عليه السلام), meaning that Shi'a Islam wasn't just a new belief.

-Some Sunni hadiths (which are Sahih) have very very eye opening and questionable things being said in them. As to avoid offending or to cause offense to people I won't repeat what is written in the hadiths, but if I as a Sunni was to look into the hadiths I would question my whole belief set, and what is right and what is wrong.

-Sunnis madhabs used to all be against each other! Believe it or not the 4 main Sunni madhabs were against each other, until the age of the Ottomans were relationships cooled down. If Sunnis themselves can't agree amongst themselves, how do you know what opinion is right? 

-Overwhelming evidence to suggest that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was the rightful successor. We can look into hadiths into Sunni books and see that it Imam Ali AS was designated as the successor to the Prophet (S). I also find Sunni hadiths trying to contradict those of shi'a hadiths. For example, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) are the masters of youths of paradise, whereas there are Sunni hadiths which state that Abu Bakr and Umar are the master of Middle Age in Paradise, (aren't there only youths in paradise?) Then there are hadiths such as who's door was left open to the mosque etc.

-Suggesting that Imam Ali AS and the first three caliphs were friends is a rocky issue. There are hadiths in Sunnis book which show that Imam Ali AS was hostile to the first two, whereas on the third one he was blamed/held responsible for instigating the death of Uthman. I don't buy into this whole thing that they were all friends, I believe that Imam Ali AS, gave his bayah for the greater good of Islam, and to start a civil war occuring, many people were already leaving Islam after the Prophet (s), had Imam Ali AS rebelled early into the reign, and considering where he was based, could spell disaster already.

-Madkhalism. To reject rebelling against leaders no matter how bad they are, which is why some Sunnis believe that Imam Hussain AS was wrong to rebel against Yazid. This point really strikes me. If we are to adopt this view point, that we shouldn't rebel against corrupt leader, it can allow the leaders to innovate for there own gains, we are told time after time not to obey sinners, yet I can't understand how this viewpoint is held by some of Sunni school  of thought.

 

I could go more in depth into this, but these are just some of my basic reasons why I'd consider myself a Shi'a. As basic as it is, my main points can't get me to accept Sunni Islam for this reason, but like I said, I'd like to hear more about your opinions

The only reason why I won't accept being sunni is because they say prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).  never left successor which is completely baseless and illogical argument.

If I build small home and leave some few penny's behind, I will be concerned about who will inherit and succeed me and take care of my hard earned money and home.  

If I say I am leaving this to the public, I would be considered the most dumbest and foolish person to ever walk on the earth.

Than How is it possible that the greatest prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) of the mankind carrying the biggest and final message of the only God,  leave behind this biggest responsibility Of Quran and Islam to the public without any declaration of who would succeed him ??? 

This Only one argument proves how baseless their ideology is !!

(No offense to any sunni brother tho, it's the ideology I hate, not sunni's as persons.)

 

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On 4/20/2020 at 8:39 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam in shia Islam standing against tyrants even tyrant Muslim rulers highly advised but level of it depends on situation that lowest point of It is discomfort in your heart & highest level of it is martyrdom in خروج against any tyrant ruler even a tyrant Muslims ruler but in Sunni side you can’t even criticize your ruler in your heart that nowadays Wahabist go further even a Muslim ruler breaks whole Islamic rules visibly in front of a large crowd such as he drinks wine in a live show then becomes naked & rapes wife of another Muslim then kills her in front of audiences  you can’t criticize him even inside your mind.

I’m confused as to your position. Please rephrase or rethink. Practically what is different have you read urwah tul wuthqah?

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I don't accept Sunni Islam because the evidence is clearly in favour of Shia Islam - this must be emphasised first and foremost. Most of humanity will not be judged humanity based on their ability to discern highly specialised discussion about narrators of Hadith, highly debatable historical events that have been polemicised, cultural forms of the religion that permeate among some groups. It's all about the clear fundamentals.

1. Tawheed: I believe the reason the universe exists and that we exist in it is to know and worship Allah. Rational arguments, as well as my fitrah have led me to believe God was the first, before anything else - time, space, matter. Therefore he can not be composed of parts, have direction, undergo movement, require tools. Shia Islam is the only group in Islam whereby the Ahadith, and the consensus of the Ulema are clearly in favour of this. Sunni Islam either contains ahadith, or major groups which. believe Allah is literally up, ascends, descends, has a hand, shin, eyes, a foot (i wish it were not true, but go and check) in a 'manner that befits him'. I don't need to go any further, Shia Islam is clearly the truth on this alone.

2. Hadith al-Thaqalayn is Muttawatir , meaning it is so widely narrated, and among both Shia and Sunni sources, it no longer is just some polemic hadith we find in one source and not another. Major scholars of hadith among Shias and Sunnis have authenticated the Prophet saying: "I leave behind for you two weighty things, the Quran and my Ahlulbayt, and they will never deviate from one another until they meet me at the pool of Kawthar". The Hadith, the context, content are clear, and no linguistic gymnastics or trying to interpret it away will ever convince my conscience otherwise. I hear and i obey.

3. Right after the Prophet declared the above, he held the hand of Ali (عليه السلام) and declared him the Mawla of whomever he was the Mawla of. Given the tradition preceeding it, the fact he would not have died without addressing the pertinent issue of leadership after him and the power vacuum he would leave, Ali (عليه السلام) opposing Abu Bakr for six months, the superiority of the teachings of the Ahlulbayt, the Quranic support, the other widely accepted traditions, it is clear Ali (عليه السلام) was the chosen successor of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

Now some Sunni brothers and sisters will come to me and say: "What about Majlisi believing the Quran had verses missing? What about Shias performing certain rituals? What about certain cultures of Shia Islam not being God-centric, but personalities centric? What about ghuluw elements?"

To that i reply, yes, i recognise there are problems with how some elements of followers have manifested Shia Islam. However, i hold onto the clear fundamentals. At the time of Shaykh as-Saduq, there were no rituals like this, it was not personality centric, Ghuluw elements were widely condemned. I don't follow Shia Islam simply because where we find some groups of Shias at socio-culturally in this blip of history of time. I follow it for the fundamentals, and pray Allah can bring reform to this pure Madhab. 

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15 hours ago, GD41586 said:

Then he usually goes on for forty five minutes telling you why you should hate America (the country I live in & the only country and culture I truly know) for what they are "doing in the middle east"; because I have so much control (sarcasm) over what the leadership class in America is doing

hi it's true anyway you must expect this behavior from any Shia community because " leadership class in America " is causing evil to people of middle east specially for people of Iran  that Iran is leader of hating from " leadership class in America " that these days we see increasing of in Sunni communities too but it's not it's not mandatory for anyone to have same agenda & behavior like us anyway we know American people separate from  " leadership class in America " but it always causes confusion between people that just know Iran as enemy of both Americans & " leadership class in America " through mainstream media.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

hi it's true anyway you must expect this behavior from any Shia community because " leadership class in America " is causing evil to people of middle east specially for people of Iran  that Iran is leader of hating from " leadership class in America " that these days we see increasing of in Sunni communities too but it's not it's not mandatory for anyone to have same agenda & behavior like us anyway we know American people separate from  " leadership class in America " but it always causes confusion between people that just know Iran as enemy of both Americans & " leadership class in America " through mainstream media.

Believe me, I don't like what they've been up to from the little bit of truth I can separate out from the media here in my country. I haven't approved of what our leaders have been up to for twenty years, but trust me when I tell you Ash that there is pretty much no way for the average, working-class American to legitimately oppose these people or anything that they are doing. A mere joke that's critical of America's leadership class (the true leaders = CEOs & business magnates) was enough to get me sent to jail for eighteen days and have my future under substantial threat. You can vote, but your vote isn't truly counted (electoral college), so no legitimate opposition within the confines of the system can take place (see: Bernie Sanders disastrous 2020 democratic primary campaign, who I volunteered for specifically because he claimed to be the "peace candidate").

I am afraid of these people and what they can do to me & my family (mother, sister, future brother in law). Then I imagine what it would be to be in the position of ANYONE who wasn't a citizen of this country & I simply feel worse about it, but I have to remember that justice ultimately belongs to God and that he has ordained the period of dominance that these people are now enjoying because his plans are better than what we can understand, and I also remember that like the Bible has stated: "God will NOT be mocked" & I pray for the souls of these so-called "leaders".

(EDIT) I was raised to believe, by this very system, that America's place in the world was to protect the meek & those who cannot defend themselves. I see now how much of a bald-faced lie this was to keep the youth from "getting in the way" of men like Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, etc.

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13 minutes ago, Kirmani said:

Having previously been a Sunni, I will tell you two main thing for me why I will just not accept Sunni school in any way

1) Why can no one give me a straight answer why even though it says in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim atleast 10 times the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said "I leave behind Quran and Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام)" in his final sermon, how this is said atleast 40 times in the Sahih Sittah, and how this is stated over 200 times in all Sunni books! And yet in only one source outside the Sahih Sittah it says "Quran and Sunnah" and yet 99.99% of all Sunni imams all over the world every time they refer to this incident (usually at the end of their sermons) they always quote the Quran and Sunnah and NEVER the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام)

2) (And this one is the main kicker) How it says numerous times in their haidths (especially Sahih Muslim) that there will be 12 caliphs after Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) before Qiyamah, all of them being Quraish (some hadiths even explicitly saying the Caliphate WILL NEVER LEAVE Quraish) and yet not a single person from the Sunni school or any school for that matter can give me a plausible explanation to who these 12 are. And I have repeatedly told people who always ask why I came to the Jaffari fiqh, just give me a better explanation to who these 12 are than the Shia school and I will be ready to come back to sunnism. 

Pretty simple really layman Sunnis can answer them 2 questions without batting an eyelid  that Quran and ahlubaith it wasn’t said at the last hajj rather after the last sermon when everybody went home in different directions, It wasn’t even to follow but to remind us of our duty in looking after the ahlubaith, adhere to Quran and sunna was said at last hajj where ALL the Muslims were gathered, trust me EVERY Sunni imam knows this unless you are being disingenuous.

Again being disingenuous ANY layman Sunni who knows a little will answer your caliphate question too pretty simple, if you read the hadith of 12 caliphs then only 2 shia imams ever ruled, the hadith says Islam will be triumphant yet other imams never ruled or were triumphant so it definitely is not the 12 who you think it is.

was you really a Sunni? If you was this information is easily available and every Sunni knows these basic facts.

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Probably what made me Shia is the amount of fabrication that has gone into their hadith collections about 'Ali - it just begs the question. The three main people I have to thank for making me Shia are:

Umar ibn al-Khattab

Mu'awiyah ibn abi Sufyan

Amr ibn Al-As

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On 5/9/2020 at 1:56 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

we know American people separate from  " leadership class in America " but it always causes confusion between people that just know Iran as enemy of both Americans & " leadership class in America " through mainstream media.

I know that Iran and Iranians are not my enemy because of the loving-kindness of a classmate when I was in high school, even when she was being disparaged for "talking back" (telling truths she experienced as an Iranian citizen) and contradicting the official anti-Iran narrative that our (govt funded) school was trying to ram into our heads during 2001-2004. I can't ever unequivocally judge Iran or Iranians as being "the enemy" because Massomeh was not anyone's enemy and she had lived in Tehran only two years prior to starting in our class.

I despise my country's "mainstream media" and I loathe the fact that I would likely be thrown in prison for visiting your nation, Ash. I want nothing more than to see your country's jungles with my own eyes and marvel at Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) creation, to see the Shia holy sites, and experience a completely different way of life to compare against my contradictory existence in an America that has no room for someone like me. Inshallah, I will someday & won't be immediately thrown in prison as a "terrorist" should I decide to return to America.

And America's only gripe with Iran is because Iran threw off America's imperialist ambitions in the revolution. Any claim otherwise is a bald-faced, propaganda lie.

On 5/8/2020 at 6:39 PM, Man Kunto Maula said:

Than How is it possible that the greatest prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) of the mankind carrying the biggest and final message of the only God,  leave behind this biggest responsibility Of Quran and Islam to the public without any declaration of who would succeed him ??? 

Thank you. This is an extremely valid point (and great food for thought). Even Jesus had picked his successors, despite the claims of Protestants to the contrary.

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9 hours ago, GD41586 said:

Thank you. This is an extremely valid point (and great food for thought). Even Jesus had picked his successors, despite the claims of Protestants to the contrary.

Exactly, intresting thing is Quran talks about the issue of Succession in no less than 40 verses (as per khutba of Fadak )and yet sunni's say prophet's  dont leave Successors..

Brainless people !!

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7 hours ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Use your logic brother, how is it possible that your own father will appoint you as a successor for his little earned temporary money and home and wont even think of leaving it to the public while the prophet who has brought this deen for this world and hereafter would leave the deen as it is without any successor??????

That's why I sought Islam on ShiaChat and not on "SunniChat" (if such a thing exists) ;)

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On 5/9/2020 at 8:46 PM, Life2020 said:

Im doing my research on both sects now. To be honest all I believed was that Shi’a Islam was the truth but after researching for a bit I find it a bit more controversial then that. Theres different in opinions on everything.

in all sects there is khilaf. You realize that there are at least 4 madhahib in Sunni Islam and lots of sub-divisions within those?

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On 5/10/2020 at 5:22 AM, Man Kunto Maula said:

The only reason why I would never be a sunni is because they say prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).  never left successor which is completely baseless and illogical argument.

Another thing that baffles me is that they believe the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) try to kill himself because he though he was going crazy.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2020 at 7:36 PM, Guest Geranimo said:

trust me EVERY Sunni imam knows this unless you are being disingenuous.

Again being disingenuous ANY layman Sunni who knows a little will answer your caliphate question too pretty simple, if you read the hadith of 12 caliphs then only 2 shia imams ever ruled, the hadith says Islam will be triumphant yet other imams never ruled or were triumphant so it definitely is not the 12 who you think it is.

was you really a Sunni? If you was this information is easily available and every Sunni knows these basic facts.

Salam if it's too simple for any Sunni layman so why until now we don't see a satisfying reply until now except that you count beheading & crucification of Shias in KSA as satisfying reply in a land that is full of this Sunni laymen also about Egypt that is source of Sunni science until now can't provide a good answer to all Shias that their Wahabi & Salafi scholars can't stop Sunni people specially young generations from converting to Shia Islam by providing a satisfactory reply to these simple questions that we can see traces converting to Shia Islam in farther sunni countries like Algeria & Morocco even they can't benefit from Muta as anti shia groups are claiming that is the main reason for convrting to Shia Islam.

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12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam if it's too simple for any Sunni layman so why until now we don't see a satisfying reply until now except that you count beheading & crucification of Shias in KSA as satisfying reply in a land that is full of this Sunni laymen also about Egypt that is source of Sunni science until now can't provide a good answer to all Shias that their Wahabi & Salafi scholars can't stop Sunni people specially young generations from converting to Shia Islam by providing a satisfactory reply to these simple questions that we can see traces converting to Shia Islam in farther sunni countries like Algeria & Morocco even they can't benefit from Muta as anti shia groups are claiming that is the main reason for convrting to Shia Islam.

Wasalam brother I am talking about hadith of 12 caliphs and you go on a tangent about wahab a salafi etc, I am Sufi brother honestly stick to the point it’s CLEAR only 2 imams ever ruled non others did and they wasn’t successful as the hadith states they will be successful.

what has KSA and beheadings got to do with 12 caliphs??

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Guest Sunni-TO-Shia said:

Because Sunnis don’t follow Quran. Shias do.

I converted to Shia Islam soon after my conversion. I found Sunni cult to be the farther away from Quran. I found Shia laws to be exactly what they were in Quran. 

Here’s one example:

http://www.askthesheikh.com/do-i-break-fast-with-sunni-husband-at-sunset-or-nightfall/

Bad example:

Edit: Though, at least we don't think it's particularly virtuous to hasten to break our fast like Sunnis do. We act on precaution (beit mustahabb precaution or obligatory precaution) to wait.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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14 hours ago, Guest Geranimo said:

Wasalam brother I am talking about hadith of 12 caliphs and you go on a tangent about wahab a salafi etc, I am Sufi brother honestly stick to the point it’s CLEAR only 2 imams ever ruled non others did and they wasn’t successful as the hadith states they will be successful.

So whose kingdom is greater: 12 imams whose obedience is by the command of Allah [Quran 4:59] or caliphs whose obedience was obtained thru swords?

It’s a bit unfortunate that none in sunni hadith collections, a sahabi asked “Who’re these Ulil Amri”? or "Who're these 12 caliphs"?

So who’s right or both are wrong?

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19 hours ago, Guest Geranimo said:

Wasalam brother I am talking about hadith of 12 caliphs and you go on a tangent about wahab a salafi etc, I am Sufi brother honestly stick to the point it’s CLEAR only 2 imams ever ruled non others did and they wasn’t successful as the hadith states they will be successful.

what has KSA and beheadings got to do with 12 caliphs??

:salam: anyway until now no Sunni layman from any sect Sufi or Wahabi or Barelvi & rest of sunni sects couldn't respond to these questions which instead of any satisfactory response which Sufis just say that we love 12 Imams as descendants of prophet Muhammad (pbu) but we don't follow them & radicals like Wahabists say that "we don't  worship them "  but they can't prove any strong evidence about their claims about following "Quran & Sunnah" that refuted countless time from their books by Shia laymen but following " Quran & Ahlulbayt " approved strongly from both holy Quran & any Sunni source but response of Wahabists until know was making noise & martyring Shias and Suffis response is ignoring the truth & making illusions instead of thinking & saying that we follow majority in following so called " Quran & Sunnah "  because our fathers did it that is similar to what every idol worshipers & polytheists said to prophets & Messengers & if you say that born Shias also follow their fathers too but they can do research about any religion & sect to find about truth that is highly recommended in Shia Islam  unlike Sunni sects that limited themselves to their father's religion & dogmatic perspective that all Sunni sects are against searching about other religions except that you do it to absorb other people to their sects that until now all so called Dawa men & women couldn't respond to shia Questions except ignoring by propaganda against shias or rejecting it with violence.

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