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Why do you not accept Sunni Islam?

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I can write a book on this and explain. Why should I care for a doctrine based on a book that records 46 hadiths from Ali Hassan Hussain and Fatima while it takes 11000+ hadiths from a Jew who re

Because it has no clear basis. It's simply a case of going with the flow. Whoever has the most power, influence or money in any one era determines which way sunnism will swing. 

Thanks for your feedback brother. You are correct in the sense that there are influences in every day and age. However, the basis and core fundamentals of shi'ism are removed from power and polit

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54 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

. Whoever has the most power, influence or money in any one era determines which way sunnism will swing. 

Same can be said of Shia zaydi, Ismaili, 12er etc,  idrisid, fatamids , safavid, even within 12er akhbari/ usooli. There will be more power shifts and ideological shifts to come. But with social media and accessibility it might not be as extreme. 

And every group will say we are correct and the original creed regardless of the political landscape and who the population follow.

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1 minute ago, power said:

There are many reason that I cannot accept Sunnism, and one of those reason is Sunnis concept of seeing Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and how they apply attribution to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

How could I forget this viewpoint, the Shi'a view to me sounds far more logical

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I don’t want to be a Sunni because it’s already proven that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the successor of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). Other thing is they lied about us saying that we worship Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and Imam Hussein (عليه السلام), we rejected the Qur'an and believe that either Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) will bring the real Qur'an or Mushaf Fatima is Shi’a Qur'an which ofc is false. Other thing is that they said Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will handshake with Umar ibn khatab before all the Prophets (pbut) which is not acceptable. There are a lot of reasons but I don’t want to mention it. But of course I still believe that they are Muslims and they are our siblings in faith. 

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2 hours ago, Life2020 said:

 the Shi'a view to me sounds far more logical

Shia Islam is the only faith on this planet that understands  comprehensively in the Oneness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) There is no other faith that has same purity that Shis Islam has and I SAY THIS WITHOUT ANY HESITATION.

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"Why do you not accept Sunni Islam?"

The Sunni approach is romanticised and everything is supposed to be fine and dandy. History and it's celebrities get a green card and the learned referees simply can't see red. Worst of all, the Sunni narrative for the Ahlul Bayt spells out hypocrisy like you've never seen and the general consensus amongst Sunni authorities is to push their inquirers away from healthy Shia thought provoking discussions. So it's a unhealthy and romanticised path, a fashionable mind-set, but at the same time at the individual-level one cannot judge their intentions unless we are certain of their derailed convictions. 

Also I like keeping my hands to my side when praying - esp after a hard days work of "keyboard ninjaring" lol

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16 hours ago, Warilla said:

Same can be said of Shia zaydi, Ismaili, 12er etc,  idrisid, fatamids , safavid, even within 12er akhbari/ usooli. There will be more power shifts and ideological shifts to come. But with social media and accessibility it might not be as extreme. 

And every group will say we are correct and the original creed regardless of the political landscape and who the population follow.

salam bro

maybe you can share the evidence why your's is the correct path. Thanks.

Here's what I find an evidence from Imam Ali bin Muhammad bin Ali bin Musa Bin Jafar bin Muhammad bin Ali bin Husin bin Ali to his Shia: a hadith and a quranic verse witnessing the truth of the hadith that Shia Islam is the correct path.

 

Page 67/201, The Life of Imam Ali bin Muhammad Al-Hadi, under subtopic “Refuting of compulsion and free will”.

 

Know, may Allah have mercy on you, that we looked up in the abundant traditions and news and we found, for all Muslims who understand from Allah, them (traditions) not free from two meanings; either truth that is to be followed or falsehood that is to be avoided. The nation has agreed unanimously with no disagreement between them that the Qur'an is the truth that has no doubt in it for Muslims of all sects. Their agreement is the proof of the Book and that they are right and guided due to the saying of the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and on his progeny), “My nation does not agree on deviation.” He told that what the entire nation agreed on is truth when no group disagrees with another. The Qur'an is the truth that there is no difference between them (Muslims) in its revelation and truthfulness. So when the Qur'an witnesses the truthfulness of some news but a group of the nation denies it, they should acknowledge it as a necessity for basically the nation has agreed unanimously on the truthfulness of the Qur'an, and if they deny, this require them to be out of the (Muslim) nation...’

Imam al‐Hadi ((عليه السلام).) says in this passage that Muslims must refer to the Qur'an, which falsehood shall not come to from before it nor from behind it, in the matters they disagree on and see that which agrees with the Qur'an is the truth and that which contradicts it is falsehood. Whoever believes this falsehood will be out of Islam.

He added, ‘The first news that is proved, witnessed, and confirmed by the Book is the saying of the messenger of Allah ((عليه السلام).), ‘I leave to you the two weighty things; the Book of Allah and my household. You shall not go astray as long as you keep to them. They shall not separate until they shall come to me at the pond (in Paradise).’

We found the evidences of this tradition in the Book of Allah where Allah said, (Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor‐rate while they bow. And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant).[1]

All Muslim sects narrated traditions that Ameerul Mo’minin ((عليه السلام).) had given his ring as charity while he was bowing in prayer and Allah praised him for that and revealed this verse. We found the messenger of Allah ((عليه السلام).) saying, ‘Whoever I was his guardian, Ali is to be his guardian’ and (addressing Imam Ali), ‘You are to me as was Aaron to Moses but there will be no Prophet after me’ and, ‘Ali repays my debts, carries out my promises, and he is my caliph over you after me’...

The tradition indicated clearly the caliphate of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) after the Prophet ((عليه السلام).) and that there was no one worthier of the Prophet ((عليه السلام).) than Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).), the pioneer of intellectual and civilizational development in the Earth.

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Islam is just one, perfect religion which cannot be divided. Hence Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned it categorically that religion, in the sight of God, is Islam. So from Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) to Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), the religion is just one and it is still one.

Where we could find that only religion? The answer of this question leads you to the foots of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). From there one can look backward & afterward to get to the only true religion.

So actually there is no such thing as shi'I or Sunni Islam. And there is no such thing as Judaism, Christianity etc. There is just Islam, the one, true religion.

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When it comes to their own Imams they will accept their determinations and their methodologies and jurisprudence and take the whole religion from that one man. I want to ask what certificate or indication or qualification was ever inferred upon those persons to authorize them to come up with a refurbished, improved and new iteration of Islam 150 years later? Why didn't you stick to the Mu'tazilla etc that came before him? And what makes him better than his (alleged) mentor Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (عليه السلام) who was our Imam during that time? Did you read a little history of your Imam? If you did you would learn that it was a state sponsored religion and it was tailored to counter Shia'ism.

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7 hours ago, Cool said:

Islam is just one, perfect religion which cannot be divided. Hence Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned it categorically that religion, in the sight of God, is Islam. So from Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) to Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), the religion is just one and it is still one.

Where we could find that only religion? The answer of this question leads you to the foots of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). From there one can look backward & afterward to get to the only true religion.

So actually there is no such thing as shi'I or Sunni Islam. And there is no such thing as Judaism, Christianity etc. There is just Islam, the one, true religion.

The term  "Shia" has been referenced in the Holy Qur'an,  Shia, is a party who follow a leader ( Imams) which  has been assigned by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

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3 hours ago, power said:

The term  "Shia" has been referenced in the Holy Qur'an,  Shia, is a party who follow a leader ( Imams) which  has been assigned by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

You can also find terms like "Hunafa" in Qur'an too. That doesn't mean there are many Islam.

Following the "Mukhlaseen" is what Islam requires. A Shia is also a Sunni and a hanafi at the same time because this is what we need to do I.e., following the chosen one, his sunnah & be with the truthful ones.

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Posted (edited)

Many aspect can be outlined because of those I consider myself to be a Shia instead of a Sunni like:

1. Sunni view: Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has body parts like leg, hand, eyes etc. The quranic view is none is like him thus supports Shia thought.

2. Sunni view: Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can be seen. The quranici view is No one can see him. 

3. Sunni view: The Prophet has left ummah without any successor but Shia has definite view that he has appointed the most knowlegdeable  and most brave man in the companions and his progeny ie Imam Ali as after him

4.  The hadith Thaqlyn mentining two weighty things ie Qur'an and the Ahl Albayt as is accepted  by narrations in both Sunni and Shia, but Sunni deny it by following other than the progeny of the Prophet saw.

5.  The Qur'an mentions verses like Verse of Mubahila, Verse of Purification, Verse of Muwaddah, , Verse of Baligh, Verse of Wilayah and many others to define the virtues and stays  of Imam Ali as his family, Ahl abaayt as (Progeny of the Prophet saw) including 12 Imams that  even Sunni do not deny but they try to lower the status by taking different meaning of defined  words.

6.  Sunni view of Adalah of all the companions is clear cut contradiction  to the verses of Qur'an that speaks to make justice in all the matters. Even all the Prophet as are not of the same rank and virtues thus verses of Qur'an reject this principle

7.   There is no concept in Qur'an for a caliph chosen by the people  for their  guidance. All Prophets / Imams / caliphs mentioned in Qur'an were chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the guidance of the people.

........etc

But I like to Quote that "Sunnis are our Soul not only brothers" (Sistani)

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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20 hours ago, Cool said:

You can also find terms like "Hunafa" in Qur'an too. That doesn't mean there are many Islam.

Following the "Mukhlaseen" is what Islam requires. A Shia is also a Sunni and a hanafi at the same time because this is what we need to do I.e., following the chosen one, his sunnah & be with the truthful ones.

Hi, was just pointing out that being Shia muslim does not mean you have deviated from Islam. Quran has supported this,  unlike are Sunnis brothers ,  the concept of sunnism was a creation many centuries later. 

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I just felt something was wrong.

When I went through my period of irreligiousness/atheism, I just knew something was wrong.

Like my heart was telling me that I need to seriously think about deciding to become a Sunni. I trusted my heart.

I found the words of the Ahlul Bayt and their shias to have a kind of distinction to them. Like you can “feel” the truth. The same goes with certain Torah and Bible verses. You can “sense” the parts which are logical, truthful.

In certain sunni hadith, i found things which were objectionable. Its as if they were insulting the prophet and his family. I also felt like the logic of certain leading scholars, their mannerisms, their explanations of concepts, something was missing or twisted. I felt repulsed by them. It didn’t feel right. 

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On 4/14/2020 at 7:06 AM, BlueInk said:

In certain sunni hadith, i found things which were objectionable. Its as if they were insulting the prophet and his family. I also felt like the logic of certain leading scholars, their mannerisms, their explanations of concepts, something was missing or twisted. I felt repulsed by them. It didn’t feel right. 

So you seem satisfied with Shia thoughts as your religion mentions as Shia.

There are few points raised in my last post that serve a catalyst to ponder over  sunnis thoughts / principles

On 4/12/2020 at 1:37 PM, Muslim2010 said:

Many aspect can be outlined because of those I consider myself to be a Shia instead of a Sunni like:

1. Sunni view: Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has body parts like leg, hand, eyes etc. The quranic view is none is like him thus supports Shia thought.

2. Sunni view: Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can be seen. The quranici view is No one can see him. 

3. Sunni view: The Prophet has left ummah without any successor but Shia has definite view that he has appointed the most knowlegdeable  and most brave man in the companions and his progeny ie Imam Ali as after him

4.  The hadith Thaqlyn mentining two weighty things ie Qur'an and the Ahl Albayt as is accepted  by narrations in both Sunni and Shia, but Sunni deny it by following other than the progeny of the Prophet saw.

5.  The Qur'an mentions verses like Verse of Mubahila, Verse of Purification, Verse of Muwaddah, , Verse of Baligh, Verse of Wilayah and many others to define the virtues and stays  of Imam Ali as his family, Ahl abaayt as (Progeny of the Prophet saw) including 12 Imams that  even Sunni do not deny but they try to lower the status by taking different meaning of defined  words.

6.  Sunni view of Adalah of all the companions is clear cut contradiction  to the verses of Qur'an that speaks to make justice in all the matters. Even all the Prophet as are not of the same rank and virtues thus verses of Qur'an reject this principle

7.   There is no concept in Qur'an for a caliph chosen by the people  for their  guidance. All Prophets / Imams / caliphs mentioned in Qur'an were chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the guidance of the people.

........etc

But I like to Quote that "Sunnis are our Soul not only brothers" (Sistani)

wasalam

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6 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

So you seem satisfied with Shia thoughts as your religion mentions as Shia.

There are few points raised in my last post that serve a catalyst to ponder over  sunnis thoughts / principles

The quote you posted is a shia reply.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, BlueInk said:

The quote you posted is a shia reply.

Yes, But the post does mention the sunni principles that are not in accordance with the quran.

Edited by Muslim2010
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16 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

Yes, But the post does mention the sunni principles that are not in accordance with the quran.

I’m not exactly sure what you mean here?

I found Sunnism to be the product of political whitewashing, as is happening to the Shia school of thought.

But the main point here is that the evidence posts to Allah choosing Ahlul Bayt to be the successors. I find the character of the other three caliphs getting the same treatment. Historical revisionism has no place in Islam. I find the proof to be sufficient.

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Guest The Iceman.

We have to look at what Sunni Islam is and where it began from. Abu Hanifa was a student of Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq. He kicked off his own school of thought known as the Hanafia school of thought. This is where Sunnis began from. Then there were a further three people who differed and started their own school of thought. So you had a further three schools of though, Maliki, Shafa'ee and Hanbali. These three are least followed. The most followed is the Hanafia school of thought. Because most Muslim rulers followed it or it was mainly backed by most rulers throughout the years. Backing and support through finance for advertisement, promotion and publicity has a major effect. Manpower and money goes and takes you along way.

Sunnis also believe in and accept Caliphate. Who ever came it to leadership, how ever and which ever way is acceptable to Sunni Islam. Well what is and has been government backed and funded will not speak or go against government rule. According to my research there is no fixed principles in Sunni Islam which you go and stand by. No fixed rules and regulations which apply. So there is a lot of double standards used in matters and affairs. It's all about what a handful of companions did at Saqifa and what they got up to. It's all about trying to justify what these companions did. 

Sunni Islam doesn't have anything to do with Qur'an or Sunnah. It's more to do with Caliphate, rulership or to do with companions. It's like someone said that Sunni Islam is 'go with the flow'. Not go with a set of principles, rules and regulations, then go by that. Sunni Islam through talking and engaging with Sunni Scholars or representatives is a sect of confusion and uncertainty. Nothing straightforward and clear. Nothing accurate and exact.

Sunni Islam is a mixture of this and that. It strives on propaganda against Shias. It is spread by painting a bad picture of Shia Islam. It's been going on for centuries. It's promoted through propaganda against Shia Islam. Just as rulers governed through propaganda against the Ahlul Bayt. Trying to keep people misinformed and ill informed and away as possible from the Ahlul Bayt as far as possible. 

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On 4/13/2020 at 1:37 AM, Muslim2010 said:

Many aspect can be outlined because of those I consider myself to be a Shia instead of a Sunni like:

1. Sunni view: Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has body parts like leg, hand, eyes etc. The quranic view is none is like him thus supports Shia thought.

2. Sunni view: Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) can be seen. The quranici view is No one can see him. 

3. Sunni view: The Prophet has left ummah without any successor but Shia has definite view that he has appointed the most knowlegdeable  and most brave man in the companions and his progeny ie Imam Ali as after him

4.  The hadith Thaqlyn mentining two weighty things ie Qur'an and the Ahl Albayt as is accepted  by narrations in both Sunni and Shia, but Sunni deny it by following other than the progeny of the Prophet saw.

5.  The Qur'an mentions verses like Verse of Mubahila, Verse of Purification, Verse of Muwaddah, , Verse of Baligh, Verse of Wilayah and many others to define the virtues and stays  of Imam Ali as his family, Ahl abaayt as (Progeny of the Prophet saw) including 12 Imams that  even Sunni do not deny but they try to lower the status by taking different meaning of defined  words.

6.  Sunni view of Adalah of all the companions is clear cut contradiction  to the verses of Qur'an that speaks to make justice in all the matters. Even all the Prophet as are not of the same rank and virtues thus verses of Qur'an reject this principle

7.   There is no concept in Qur'an for a caliph chosen by the people  for their  guidance. All Prophets / Imams / caliphs mentioned in Qur'an were chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the guidance of the people.

........etc

But I like to Quote that "Sunnis are our Soul not only brothers" (Sistani)

wasalam

in which books did you read that  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has body parts ?

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7 hours ago, BlueInk said:

But the main point here is that the evidence posts to Allah choosing Ahlul Bayt to be the successors. I find the character of the other three caliphs getting the same treatment. Historical revisionism has no place in Islam. I find the proof to be sufficient.

I like to mention the  link given below  for Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) to be true followers of the prophet s.a,aw and believers should follow Thaqlyn ie two weighty things quran and Ahl albayt (عليه السلام):

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On 4/12/2020 at 12:45 AM, Guest NoWhereToHide said:

salam bro

maybe you can share the evidence why your's is the correct path. Thanks.

The tradition indicated clearly the caliphate of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) after the Prophet ((عليه السلام).) and that there was no one worthier of the Prophet ((عليه السلام).) than Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).), the pioneer of intellectual and civilizational development in the Earth.

My path that I have 100% yaqeen on  is that the Qur'an is the word of Allah, And Muhammed is his messanger. As you are Muslim I don't need to prove this to you.

As for your second point. Everyone except the khuwarij and muwayia accepted the leadership oh Hazarat Ali. He is either the 1st Imam, 4th righteous caliph, origin of sufii tareeka. 

Even those before him accepted his council Hazarat Umar mentioned he would have perished if it was not for Ali.

After the Prophet Imam Ali was always guiding the Ummah. So your point does nothing to differentiate. 

You can argue it seperates Sunni from Shia but even then there are many groups within Shia all claiming to be right.

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On 4/11/2020 at 11:12 PM, Life2020 said:

Often we are asked why we are Shi'a, but hardly does anyone ask why don't we accept Sunni Islam, I'd be interested in hearing everyones views about why they have/haven't considered becoming Sunni.

Subject river, with tons of books written about it. I don’t even know where to start, but for me personally the basic obstacle in becoming a Sunni is simply their theological justification and zealous defense of people, with very questionable characters and motives, who slaughtered and persecuted the Prophet’s closet and further family members, and those that still do. In (Shia) Islam, the concept of justice is at the forefront of guiding our everyday life, however, for Sunnis it is all about power. No matter how corrupted, deceitful and terrible of a person you are, as long as you have a power, they will follow you blindly and even accept religious innovations from you.

Shias speak non-stop about Kashmir, Palestine, Rohingya or Ughyurs. How many Sunnis actively and realistically highlight and sacrifice themselves against the Shia suffering, at the hands of misguided and corrupted, in eastern Arabia, Bahrain (near media blanket in the Sunni world about the tortures that Shia civilians suffer there), Nigeria, Pakistan, Iraq (million Shias killed under Saddam alone) etc. Yemen is an exception in reporting due to the Qatar-Saudi power struggle, but neither side has real compassion towards long oppressed and marginalised Zaydis who just said enough is enough. 

Therefore, one’s salvation can’t be built upon living the life of injustice, and this is what Sunnis profess since ever; from the usurpation at Saqifa, slaughter at Karbala, Jamal, enormous persecution of the Prophet’s family under Umayyads and Abbasids, to further massacres under Seljuks, Ottomans till nowadays. One with pure heart simply can’t accept such falsehood and injustice because on the Judgment Day, we will be asked about it. That’s one of the examples why I could never be a Sunni and follow their religion. 

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7 hours ago, Warilla said:

My path that I have 100% yaqeen on  is that the Qur'an is the word of Allah, And Muhammed is his messanger. As you are Muslim I don't need to prove this to you.

As for your second point. Everyone except the khuwarij and muwayia accepted the leadership oh Hazarat Ali. He is either the 1st Imam, 4th righteous caliph, origin of sufii tareeka. 

Even those before him accepted his council Hazarat Umar mentioned he would have perished if it was not for Ali.

After the Prophet Imam Ali was always guiding the Ummah. So your point does nothing to differentiate. 

You can argue it seperates Sunni from Shia but even then there are many groups within Shia all claiming to be right.

For me Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is my Imam. Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) is my Imam, Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) is my Imam. but for me the 3 sunni caliphs are the righteous caliphs too (even though they maybe did something wrong for some sects). i don't care if you are a sunni,jafari,zaydi,ismaili or even sufi. I only wish that Allah will unite us in Jannah. 

There should be no Shia & Sunni When It Comes To Tragedy Of Karbala. You are either with Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) or you are with his killer.  

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, dika_xan said:

There should be no Shia & Sunni When It Comes To Tragedy Of Karbala. You are either with Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) or you are with his killer.  

The statement that is said by scholars that we should be Hussiani in present time (while we remain shia or we remain sunni).

Edited by Muslim2010
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