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In the Name of God بسم الله
Haji 2003

Covid-19 Staying one step ahead

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We've had some brief discussions in other threads, but it would be worth having one specifically dedicated to future social, economic and political developments as a result of this.

Any contributions that refer to: one world government; Illuminati; Bilderberg; population control etc. will be deleted.

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I wouldn't be surprised in the US invested a significant amount of money into pandemic prevention and response. Trump's slow response and the US overall has completely failed in handling the virus. With slow tests and a lack of ppe and equipment, it's just been a mess.

And it worse because you have clear warnings from medical professionals even before this began, and both Obama and Trump among others have failed to drive an initiative for a better program. 

This is the kind of event that the US really needed to become responsive to these types of dangers. The one positive aspect of the virus. It will be nice seeing that investment.

Edited by iCenozoic

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9 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

The one positive aspect of the virus. It will be nice seeing that investment.

Yes, the health shock is one that immediately suggests that investment in that area may come. This thread is more about the immediate future and emerging risks/challenges of a non health variety. Sorry that the thread explanation was not clear.

For example while measures are being put into place for health related issues, I wonder about how people who have been furloughed will eat and be housed over the coming weeks and months and whether the plans for that are sufficient.

Sick patients can only suffer in silence if the healthcare is not good enough. But hungry members of the public can riot.

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Here is, l think, one probable outcome of this pandemic:  credibility

l did some rumaging around on the Net after this prompt: a woman from California called a talk radio show and reported that in her county  of 983,000, there have been 156 C-19 cases and 3 deaths -one elderly. Then she asked: why is everything shutdown?

1] https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm  CDC estimates that from  01Oct19-28March20 there have been 24,000 to 63,000 influenza deaths from all flu strains.  

2] 26March2020 article which also says the US has 1100+ deaths as of 26March:  How you die from a flu:

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year  in the US it ranges 

3] ln a 24January 2019 article, repeats the same as for C0VlD-19 a year later; sepsis, underlying conditions, etc.

Deaths in the US range from 12,000 to 56,000 from all flus. https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/how-do-you-die-from-flu  lncludes examples, such as with diabetes.

 

OPINE: As C0VlD-19 has yet to be shown to have any unusual lethality --currenlty 16,000+ deaths since January/February2020-- justifications for shutting down America's best economy in 3 generations are going to look "thin".

Edited by hasanhh
Opine

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We're either going to go full Hunger Games, or things are going to get a little bit better for everyone. If we do nothing, expect things to get worse. If we demand change, we have a chance. 

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3 hours ago, hasanhh said:

OPINE: As C0VlD-19 has yet to be shown to have any unusual lethality --currenlty 16,000+ deaths since January/February2020-- justifications for shutting down America's best economy in 3 generations are going to look "thin".

If this is how it is with a lockdown, imagine what it would be without it.

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6 minutes ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Considering all the government spending and bail outs, is hedging for inflation a good idea? 

l think so. With the collapse of employment and the gov't throwing around trillions of already inflated dollars, we -l think- are going into an inflationary depression like Germany experienced in the 1920s. Everybody and every business will get wiped-out.

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Subversive Activity that will GO left

https://wwmt.com/news/spotlight-on-america/coronavirus-pandemic-has-federal-government-dusting-off-doomsday-plans 

***Someone needs to snap this, post and also keep.

The article is also the transcript.

2] https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-a-stress-test-for-democracy/a-53064455 

Edited by hasanhh
dw.com

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Transport, daily commute and remote education will possibly all be re-evaluated. 

Work from home could become more frequent in order to reduce commute times and pollution, but also to save on office overheads (I imagine offices have saved huge amounts on their water and electricity bills). 

With green movements already picking up in Europe, aviation will become less preferred as a method of transport. Business travel will be replaced by video and telcons where possible. 

For children who struggle with easy access to education facilities, local centers might be set up for assisted remote learning. 

Social distancing could become a norm in certain environments. Disinfectant will probably become more prominent. 

Some sporting events are looking into virtual alternatives (e.g Tour de Flandres cycling event). This could become more common, especially where logistics and security costs were already creating pressure. 

Among religious communities, online events could become more common especially in areas where permanent community centers don't exist.

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Some geo-political tension to add to the mix:

Quote

The WHO has been accused of being too deferential to China and praising its virus response despite the government initially suppressing information about the outbreak. The WHO denies the charge and on Wednesday its director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said he had been subjected to months of attacks including racist ones against him and black communities, and accused Taiwan of condoning the “campaign”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/coronavirus-threat-to-global-peace-and-stability-un-chief-warns

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What a sick joke -ed.  Tokyo has announced its Shut Down rules. What this article does not say but the broadcast did say is that these business are to close at 8 P.M. to be eligible for the "loans".

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200410_80/  This should be entitle "public money give away to the mobs" as excepting juku-education schools, these are all mob businesses.

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The Singaporeans have instituted the following. Countries like Pakistan obviously can't afford such payments and don't have the mechanisms in place anyway, but I think there'll be a case for setting up free dahl+roti centres in the poorest countries.

Either that or mass social unrest.

solidarity0412.jpg

 

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On 4/10/2020 at 12:44 AM, hasanhh said:

l think- are going into an inflationary depression like Germany experienced in the 1920s. Everybody and every business will get wiped-out.

And the after effects were very positive indeed. You had a post-war society with a serious aversion to the riba/lending culture (that has bedevilled US/UK) and a society focused in living within its means. In an ideal world we could have that without the process Germany went through.

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So... there may be a couple of implied questions here : 

1. Envision a world you'd like to see on the other side. 

2. What do you expect to see changed?  

1. A better world is of-course possible at all times ... and we all have our respective wish lists, universal health coverage, a minimum basic income for everyone, investment in housing etc. 

2. I personally expect close to zero actual change - the virus is not severe enough to bring about a substantive change. But also - as far as the US goes - there may be a very temporary downturn - but the stimulus bill was smart enough to cover an overwhelming number of businesses - including payroll coverage, and local / community level grants. The bill basically provides coverage until May so that everything can revert back to status quo. Now IF it turns out the virus gets seriously out of control during the next two to three weeks - so that we are looking at extended lock down till say July or August. Well then... all bets are off... ! It'll make the 1930s and 1960s social movements look like a mild summer's walk in the park with a gentle breeze. But it doesn't appear that this is going to be the case. 

I think Trump will be massively re-elected - he will claim victory mission accomplished by June. And fact is the early "china travel ban" that he goes on and on about - probably did save the west coast from the ravages that the east coast (NY etc. ) is experiencing. Since most of the travel from East Asia - including China comes to California - especially San Francisco. Additionally of-course the west coast has a much stronger public health system than the east coast.  But since Trump is a white supremacist he didn't think about banning flights from Europe that early... and the travelers from Europe take the NYC route ... 

Edited by skylight2

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On 4/13/2020 at 3:40 AM, skylight2 said:

I think Trump will be massively re-elected - he will claim

Until recently l have agreed, but with his maundering mouth in this C-19 crisis, l believe he just might talk himself rightout of re-election.

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58 minutes ago, Ejaz said:

Why? 

Because there are a number of threads already where the focus of the discussion has tracked into the above topics which then leaves less scope for other issues to be discussed. And of course there are threads already focusing exclusively on the illuminati etc.

The following is a selection of Shiachat threads that have the term Illuminati in the title:

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/search/?q=illuminati&quick=1&search_in=titles

I have been a member of financial discussion forums where people analysing shares would specifically ask that analysis based on share price charts and trends be excluded from the discussion, because it would swamp discussion based on fundamental issues such as sales and profits. So this basis for restriction is not specific to this website or these topics.

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14 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Until recently l have agreed, but with his maundering mouth in this C-19 crisis, l believe he just might talk himself rightout of re-election.

Possible ... but the dude that the Democrats have chosen is so bad that I think it would take a pentagon take over of the US and suspension of the constitution for Trump to lose the elections. That could have happened if the virus had gotten completely out of control and California and Texas experienced what New York is experiencing... but things seem to be stabilizing in California as well as somewhat in New York ... so I think Trump can claim victory. 

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Cuomo talks about reimagining what the future could be rather than focusing on reopening. At 5.40.

After that he does a copy/paste of Merkel, but it's all good.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?471353-1/york-governor-cuomo-coronavirus-news-conference

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Price of oil is negative. Storage capacity is quickly filling. Nobody knows what will happen when there is no longer any place to put the oil, if the wells can't be closed by then. 

I predict war. I hope not though. 

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7 hours ago, notme said:

Price of oil is negative. Storage capacity is quickly filling. Nobody knows what will happen when there is no longer any place to put the oil, if the wells can't be closed by then. 

I predict war. I hope not though. 

A fundamental observation of the post-World War 1 World was and is, "economic dislocation produces political revolution."

Russia, Germany, Turkey, eastern Europe, China, Latin America . . . 

which is the primary reason for US sanctions policies, but these never have worked because of a lack of severity in the results.

l do not predict war, but the ground has been firmed for a political backlash in the US.

 

Elsewhere, Trump has suspended all immigration into the US.

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10 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Elsewhere, Trump has suspended all immigration into the US.

I saw that, and honestly, I'm mostly ok with it at this time. Quarantine means nobody goes in or out. The alternative would be detention facilities, and we've all seen how terrible and unhealthy those places are. 

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On 4/13/2020 at 12:40 AM, skylight2 said:

Now IF it turns out the virus gets seriously out of control during the next two to three weeks - so that we are looking at extended lock down till say July or August. Well then... all bets are off... ! It'll make the 1930s and 1960s social movements look like a mild summer's walk in the park with a gentle breeze. But it doesn't appear that this is going to be the case. 

I think Trump will be massively re-elected - he will claim victory mission accomplished by June. And fact is the early "china travel ban" that he goes on and on about - probably did save the west coast from the ravages that the east coast (NY etc. ) is experiencing. Since most of the travel from East Asia - including China comes to California - especially San Francisco. Additionally of-course the west coast has a much stronger public health system than the east coast.  But since Trump is a white supremacist he didn't think about banning flights from Europe that early... and the travelers from Europe take the NYC route ... 

Update: June is rapidly approaching - and the US situation is not improving - but the lockdown is beginning to end. The question now is what will happen ... especially watch California, if that state begins to see exponential growth of virus over next week - we're in for some big problems. The country has reached its max with #stayathome - suicide rates are beginning to rocket up - and domestic violence and other family frustrations are going up the roof. The lockdown won't continue - in fact, the people have pretty much stopped "obeying" and the streets are crowded albeit with some social distancing and masks but not much. Only the usual fanatics are shouting down people who are coming out and refusing to stay indoors anymore. The lockdown was never meant to be a long term solution - and dragging it on for three months now is plain ludicrous. 

There is massive anger amongst African American and Latino populations who were disproportionately targeted by the failed US health system. We're approaching some serious social explosions - with June approaching - and no end in sight of the virus.We're moving to the "all bets are off..." stage . 

At this time I still maintain that Trump will win - but things are getting close to the point of well maybe not... The official lockdown must end in the next week or two - and new ideas have to quickly be implemented. Otherwise we'll have an order that no one will obey.  

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Human Contact Tracing Apps

These have had "success" only in China so far. A failure to grossly inadequate in other countries. Google and Apple in partnerships with other corporations are "racing" to develop tracking apps.

The second part discusses the "educated guess" on C-19 'immunity', if you develop any, as at best one year.

Maybe, C-19 is also sexually transmitted as a Chinese limited study found it active in semen.

https://www.dw.com/en/the-tech-battle/av-53562462

Also posted under Snowden ...-your brain

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