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In the Name of God بسم الله
786:)

Kamal al Haydari on ghulat

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23 hours ago, 786:) said:

That is your opinion. I wholeheartedly accept everything Kamal al Haydari said in the video. Also, highlighting tawheed does not downplay wilayah. The fact is that Islam's core most important pillar is Tawheed. Shias have auctioned off tawheed to the Sunnis and doubled down on Wilayah. When the Prophet brought Islam to the Arabs, the core message was Tawheed. He wasnt running around telling people about Wilayah.

Kamal al Haydari isnt telling anyone to stop talking about Wilayah nor is he denying it as a principle. What he is saying is that Tawheed is not talked about enough off the Shia pulpits. Our speakers must have this implied arrogance and just assume the audience has all the knowledge in the world about Tawhid when that is so far from the truth.

1. I disagree that Shia have auctioned off some belief  to any one else and it seems a misunderstanding.

2.  The Prophet started the religion by the message of Tauheed and in parallel in his first speech at Dul Asheera he mentioned his successor  and Wali after him. The religion was perfected at in the life of the Prophet at ghadeer khum with the announcement of Maula after him.

3.  The last sentence in bold is your personal comment and one may agree or disagree to it.

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

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On 3/29/2020 at 7:25 PM, 786:) said:

Salam

I agree with some of the the parts of the speech where Maulana says Hzt.Abbas and Hzt.Zainab may not be infallible but my question is why would you consider it as "Ghulu" when you say Allah distributes "rizq" through Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) or Imams.

Haven't you read Surah Qadr that says the Angels descend on the Night of the Qadr with the affairs of the people so who do they hand over the affairs of the people if not the Imam of the time??

This does not necessarily mean that he(Imams) creates rizq, creating rizq and distributing it are two different things. 

We say Imam "takes care" of the affairs and distributes "rizq" by the sole permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

If I own a house which I have made it and I appoint someone to take care of it then "taking care" of it and "making of the house" are two different things. 

what's wrong if I appoint someone to take care of my house, this necessarily does not mean I have created the house??

Imams simply "take care" of the affairs of the people or the "rizq".

I do not understand how shirk or gulu is associated here. 

We know it and do understand that Allah is the sole creator of everything including the Imams. And I firmly do believe that Imam zamana a.t.f.s is also taking care of the affairs of the people at the moment.

(I am here for some positive discussion and outcome and not to fight with everyone so hope you respect and respond accordingly, thank you :) )

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3 hours ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Imams simply "take care" of the affairs of the people or the "rizq". [...] And I firmly do believe that Imam zamana a.t.f.s is also taking care of the affairs of the people at the moment.

I don't understand what this means

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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4 hours ago, Man Kunto Maula said:

Salam

I agree with some of the the parts of the speech where Maulana says Hzt.Abbas and Hzt.Zainab may not be infallible but my question is why would you consider it as "Ghulu" when you say Allah distributes "rizq" through Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) or Imams.

Haven't you read Surah Qadr that says the Angels descend on the Night of the Qadr with the affairs of the people so who do they hand over the affairs of the people if not the Imam of the time??

This does not necessarily mean that he(Imams) creates rizq, creating rizq and distributing it are two different things. 

We say Imam "takes care" of the affairs and distributes "rizq" by the sole permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

If I own a house which I have made it and I appoint someone to take care of it then "taking care" of it and "making of the house" are two different things. 

what's wrong if I appoint someone to take care of my house, this necessarily does not mean I have created the house??

Imams simply "take care" of the affairs of the people or the "rizq".

I do not understand how shirk or gulu is associated here. 

We know it and do understand that Allah is the sole creator of everything including the Imams. And I firmly do believe that Imam zamana a.t.f.s is also taking care of the affairs of the people at the moment.

(I am here for some positive discussion and outcome and not to fight with everyone so hope you respect and respond accordingly, thank you :) )

The moment one thinks of that an individual does a particular act that Allah doesn’t Do, this is Shirk.  The moment you think that an individual “has” an attribute, this is shirk (because All attributes are God’s).  The moment you think that there are individuals or realities (or essences) that are not God, this is Shirk, because only Allah is the Real.   
 

if you have this in mind, then awesome.  
if not, then Shirk!

Edited by eThErEaL

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12 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

The moment one thinks of that an individual does a particular act that Allah doesn’t Do, this is Shirk.  The moment you think that an individual “has” an attribute, this is shirk (because All attributes are God’s).  The moment you think that there are individuals or realities (or essences) that are not God, this is Shirk, because only Allah is the Real.   
if you have this in mind, then awesome.  
if not, then Shirk!

The statement seem ambiguous like If I quote that the angel of death does the action to take the soul of the person for his death. Is it shirk as per your statement?

wassalam

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2 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

The statement seem ambiguous like If I quote that the angel of death does the action to take the soul of the person for his death. Is it shirk as per your statement?

wassalam

Who will take the soul, Angel of Death (عليه السلام) or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? The answer is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

People ask Imams (عليه السلام) for help when the Imams (عليه السلام) are themselves in need and they sincerely rely only to Allah an only directly ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) himself and only entrust Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and no creations. Imam Zainul Abideen (عليه السلام) said:

I showed sincerity by cutting myself off from everything but Thee
I ceased to ask from any who cannot do without Thy bounty
I saw that the needy who seeks from the needy

is foolish in his opinion and misguided in his intellect

and entrust me not to Thy creatures, but take care of my need alone and Thyself attend to sufficing me!
Look upon me and look after me in all my affairs,

for if Thou entrustest me to myself, I will be incapable before myself

There is absolutely nothing contradict with these statement with Qur'an but actually are according the Qur'an itself!

Edited by Abu Nur

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1 minute ago, Abu Nur said:

Who will take the soul, Angel of Death (عليه السلام) or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? The answer is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

People ask Imams (عليه السلام) for help when the Imams (عليه السلام) are themselves in need and they sincerely rely only to Allah an only directly ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) himself and only entrust Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and no creations. Imam Zainul Abideen (عليه السلام) said:

I showed sincerity by cutting myself off from everything but Thee
I ceased to ask from any who cannot do without Thy bounty
I saw that the needy who seeks from the needy

is foolish in his opinion and misguided in his intellect

and entrust me not to Thy creatures, but take care of my need alone and Thyself attend to sufficing me!
Look upon me and look after me in all my affairs,

for if Thou entrustest me to myself, I will be incapable before myself

This is a “Wahhabi” idea the Imam was displaying. This is what I do not understand. It is almost taboo in the Shia circles to ask from Allah alone. If you don’t ask through an Imam then you are a hater or denier of the Imams. They have auctioned off asking from Allah alone to the Wahhabis. Ya Ali Madad is more powerful than asking Allah. Nad e Ali is the most powerful dua one can say in the times of need.

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3 minutes ago, 786:) said:

This is a “Wahhabi” idea the Imam was displaying. This is what I do not understand. It is almost taboo in the Shia circles to ask from Allah alone. If you don’t ask through an Imam then you are a hater or denier of the Imams. They have auctioned off asking from Allah alone to the Wahhabis. Ya Ali Madad is more powerful than asking Allah. Nad e Ali is the most powerful dua one can say in the times of need.

There are part of the Shias who follow the truth and part of others who are going too far. This is actually common thing, some are guided and succeeded with the tests and others failed.

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10 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Ya Ali Madad is more powerful than asking Allah. Nad e Ali is the most powerful dua one can say in the times of need.

God forbid people remind themselves of Ali's (عليه السلام) strength in times of difficulty. 

10 minutes ago, 786:) said:

It is almost taboo in the Shia circles to ask from Allah alone. If you don’t ask through an Imam then you are a hater or denier of the Imams.

"It is almost taboo in Sunni circles to ask from Allah with consideration of the high status of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). If you don't ask God directly then you are a hater or denier of His Oneness."

10 minutes ago, 786:) said:

Nad e Ali

Aight, I'm sure you'll criticize the Sufis and Subcontinent Hanafis too then?

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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1 minute ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Aight, I'm sure you'll criticize the Sufis and Subcontinent Hanafis too then?

1000%. I could care less what one labels or associates with. Truth is above all labels. Nad e Ali is a poem. It is problematic when people do not understand this and take it to be actual words of Aimmah.

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12 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

"It is almost taboo in Sunni circles to ask from Allah with consideration of the high status of the Prophet (s). If you don't ask God directly then you are a hater or denier of His Oneness."

I may have referred to this in other threads, but there is a astronomical difference in "O Allah help me for the sake of personality X" and "O Personality X help". I have no issues with the first. The second one has no backing.

Edited by 786:)

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Quote

We say Imam "takes care" of the affairs and distributes "rizq" by the sole permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Read this very very carefully:

أَمري إِلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بَصيرٌ بِالعِبادِ

and I entrust my affair to Allah. - 40:44

I entrust my affair to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), it does not say Imam (عليه السلام). This verse is very clear, every affair is entrusted to only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), or rest will be shirk.

Quote

distributes "rizq" by the sole permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

It is shirk to even think that I come to Imam (عليه السلام) and ask him for some rizq, thinking that the rizq is given by Imam. Many people fall in this trap in daily basis. What is correct is that every sustenance comes from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) even if it was given by Imam (عليه السلام).

وَما مِن دابَّةٍ فِي الأَرضِ إِلّا عَلَى اللَّهِ رِزقُها

There is no animal on the Earth, but that its sustenance lies with Allah

Edited by Abu Nur

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The simplest, safest and wisest of guidelines has been provided by the holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) in the famous narration of thaqalayn, the two weighty things, which are the Qur'an and the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). 

If we hold on tightly to these two then we will be safe from deviation inshaAllah. 

Be wary of adapting or adhering to anything which cannot be found or supported through these fundamental sources of guidance.

Be honest and sincere, do not blindly defend and insist on man-made ideologies, concepts and beliefs no matter how popular they may be. 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us all. 

 

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45 minutes ago, 786:) said:

1000%. I could care less what one labels or associates with. Truth is above all labels. Nad e Ali is a poem. It is problematic when people do not understand this and take it to be actual words of Aimmah.

Correct it's a poem, not even a dua. But who are these lay people that are taking this to be authentic in the Shia Jafari school? The scholarly consensus is that it's inauthentic. Ayatullah Khui - arguably the most followed Marja in his time explicitly says it's inauthentic: 

Quote

With regards to Nadey Ali, Ayatullah Khui (رضي الله عنه) responded to a question answering that the Riwayat (tradition) is not established as authentic in his view.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20111112221859/http://www.al-Islam.org/organizations/AalimNetwork/msg00061.html

Also, response from Ahlul-Bayt World Assembly:

Quote

The long supplication, which is known as Naad e Ali, cannot be found in our authentic Shiite resources. However, in the Ziarat addressed to Imam Ali, we read: Assalamu alaika ya mazhar al-Ajaeb wa al-ayat. So, Mazharal-Ajaeb is one of the attributes of Imam Ali . In some Shiite resources, too, a part of this supplication has been quoted (I.e. Naad e Aliyan mazharil-Ajaeb).  For example, in famous book Bihar al-Anwar by Allamah Majlesi, vol.20 , page 72 – 73. Such concepts are mentioned in other books as well, including: a) Jami ' Ahadithe al – shi'ah by Ayatollah Borujerdi b) Al–Misbah by al–Kaf'ami c) Sharh Ihqaq al–Haq.  A number of Shiite Ulema (Grand Ayatollahs), too, have confirmed this part of Naad e Ali. One of these Ulema was the late Ayatollah Syed Abdul-Karim Kashmiri (died in Qom in 1999). He said: "I have received many blessings from Naad e Ali. When I lived in holy Najaf, as soon as there came up a difficulty or suffering for me, I went to the Holy Shrine of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and recited Naad e Ali several times. After that, my problem was solved…" Ayatollah Kashmiri used to recite Naad e Ali as follows: [..] NOTE: The last part of Naad e Ali should be addressed to Almighty Allah (not to Imam Ali). 

But it doesn't even have a chain of narrations (isnad) where it is found:

Quote

Sources:
Al-Majlisi, Bihaar Al-Anwaar, vol. 20, ch. 12, pg. 73
Muhaddith Al-Nooree, Mustadarak Al-Wasaa-il, vol. 15, ch. 51, pg. 483
Al-Kaf'amee, MiSbaaH, pg. 183

In the footnote of Bihar where the du'a is found, it says the last line is highly questionable:

Quote

"In the last sentence there is some strangeness, and it does not suit what preceded it. What is apparent is that it is an addition from some of the ignorant, or the straying Sufis that claim these sentences are du`a, heedless of its meaning. Rather, some of them relate for constantly reciting it virtue that is not (even) for salat. May Allah guard us from innovation and the following of caprice." 

Even with promotion of (certain parts of) the Dua, it is not enough promotion to reasonably believe that laymen would go against the most eminent Marja (Sayyid Khui).

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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43 minutes ago, 786:) said:

I may have referred to this in other threads, but there is a astronomical difference in "O Allah help me for the sake of personality X" and "O Personality X help". I have no issues with the first. The second one has no backing.

Very true. But how can you argue that whenever someone says the latter that they meant it literally, and did not mean the former?

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1 hour ago, 786:) said:

"O Personality X help"

Is there a meaningful difference between "Oh Personality X, ask God to help me" and this shortened version (assuming correct intention)?

Edit: not saying that this is the same as "Oh Allah, help me for the sake of personality X" 

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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7 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Is there a meaningful difference between "Oh Personality X, ask God to help me" and this shortened version (assuming correct intention)?

This opens up the Hazir Nazir gates. I personally do not believe that the Prophet or Aimmah are omni-present and omni-hearing. I firmly believe this to only be an attribute of Allah. Giving this attribute to other than Allah could potentially be shirk

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7 minutes ago, 786:) said:

This opens up the Hazir Nazir gates. I personally do not believe that the Prophet or Aimmah are omni-present and omni-hearing. I firmly believe this to only be an attribute of Allah. Giving this attribute to other than Allah could potentially be shirk

Agreed. But what irks me is that in the Taslim of Salah it is worded (as far as I can tell) "Oh Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon you". As in, we are addressing Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)... like he can hear us.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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On an unrelated note, which of these do you think is a more sensible opinion? Both are modernists/reformists, but obviously it goes without saying that Kamal Al-Haydari is more knowledgeable (and a Marja). Though it seems like even some Traditionalists hold the same view as Kamal al-Haydari. Nami Farhat and Haydari reach the same conclusion to not beat your wife, but the former says that this is what the Qur'an says, and the latter says it is not what the Qur'an says.

 

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On 4/1/2020 at 3:07 AM, eThErEaL said:

Like everything about the world (I.e. everything other than God), human free-will is also relative.  
What does relative mean?  Relative means: (yes / no).  “Yes” in one respect, and “no” in another respect.  
Do “you” have free will?  
It depends what is mean’t by “you”.  
if “you” is a separate person or thing, then no, you don’t have free will.  If you “you” is the ultimately one, indivisible, borderless and eternal reality, then YES,  you have a will that is truly free.  

 

Lets make it simple by viewing the quoted verse once again:

Surah Suad, Verse 75:
قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَن تَسْجُدَ لِمَا خَلَقْتُ بِيَدَيَّ أَسْتَكْبَرْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

He said: O Iblis! what prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
(English - Shakir)

Now here is the test, this is the discussion between the creator & the created. The created disobeying the command of creator and giving his excuse of disobedience in next verse:

Surah Suad, Verse 76:
قَالَ أَنَا خَيْرٌ مِّنْهُ خَلَقْتَنِي مِن نَّارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِن طِينٍ

He said: I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.
(English - Shakir)

 

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

Read this very very carefully:

أَمري إِلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بَصيرٌ بِالعِبادِ

and I entrust my affair to Allah. - 40:44

I entrust my affair to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), it does not say Imam (عليه السلام). This verse is very clear, every affair is entrusted to only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), or rest will be shirk.

It is shirk to even think that I come to Imam (عليه السلام) and ask him for some rizq, thinking that the rizq is given by Imam. Many people fall in this trap in daily basis. What is correct is that every sustenance comes from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) even if it was given by Imam (عليه السلام).

وَما مِن دابَّةٍ فِي الأَرضِ إِلّا عَلَى اللَّهِ رِزقُها

There is no animal on the Earth, but that its sustenance lies with Allah

Before saying anything about the Being whom you cannot comprehend, I would like you to view few more verses of Qur'an Al-Hakeem.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Malik ul Mulk, He is the Creator, the Raziq. Do you want to say with full confidence that He cannot appoint anyone from His "Junood" for the distribution of Rizq? Do you claim to know the junood of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) while He has said this:

وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ 

74:31

Have you seen the following verses:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 54:
أَمْ يَحْسُدُونَ النَّاسَ عَلَىٰ مَا آتَاهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ فَقَدْ آتَيْنَا آلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَآتَيْنَاهُم مُّلْكًا عَظِيمًا

Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.
(English - Shakir)

So He has given the Aal-e-Ibrahim, "Mulkan Azeema" and has not given them the right to use or distribute "haqq e tasarruf"?

There is another verse which mentions "Mulkan Kabeera":

Surah Al-Insan, Verse 20:
وَإِذَا رَأَيْتَ ثَمَّ رَأَيْتَ نَعِيمًا وَمُلْكًا كَبِيرًا

And when you see there, you shall see blessings and a great kingdom.
(English - Shakir)

Please don't try to impose limits on God, He do what He will. It is the sunnat of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that He makes wasilah and He has commanded us to approach Him through wasilah. 

We have seen in Qur'an that He has send down rizq from heavens upon the request of His chosen ones. Hence He made Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) & Essa (عليه السلام) wasilah for granting sustenance to Bani Isra'il (Munna wa Salwa & Ma'ida were sent down). Do you really continue to confine the greatness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

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2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Who will take the soul, Angel of Death (عليه السلام) or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? The answer is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

Again, why are you turning your eyes from His "Junood"? Yes, angel of death takes the souls and angels takes the souls. These are among the "junood" of my Lord the Almighty. And we believe in them:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 136:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا آمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ مِن قَبْلُ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا بَعِيدًا

O you who believe! believe in Allah and His Apostle and the Book which He has revealed to His Apostle and the Book which He revealed before; and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His apostles and the last day, he indeed strays off into a remote error.
(English - Shakir)

 

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38 minutes ago, Cool said:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 54:
أَمْ يَحْسُدُونَ النَّاسَ عَلَىٰ مَا آتَاهُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ فَقَدْ آتَيْنَا آلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَآتَيْنَاهُم مُّلْكًا عَظِيمًا

Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim's children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom.
(English - Shakir)

So He has given the Aal-e-Ibrahim, "Mulkan Azeema" and has not given them the right to use or distribute "haqq e tasarruf"?

Lets see one more sunnat of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), when He grants someone kingdom, He grants it with full rights as mentioned in the case of Prophet Suleman (عليه السلام):

Surah Suad, Verse 39:
هَٰذَا عَطَاؤُنَا فَامْنُنْ أَوْ أَمْسِكْ بِغَيْرِ حِسَابٍ

This is Our free gift, therefore give freely or withhold, without reckoning.
(English - Shakir)

As long as one believes that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the One & Only "As-Samad", there is no shirk in his life. The Giver (Al-Mo'tee) is One and everyone else is a receiver or begger (Sa'il) before Him. 

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On 4/1/2020 at 10:43 PM, 786:) said:

When the Prophet brought Islam to the Arabs, the core message was Tawheed. He wasnt running around telling people about Wilayah.

Salam Wilayat was known to Arabs even before Islam that people like Umar & two other caliphs in event of Ghader  said greeting to Imam Ali (عليه السلام) about his Wilayat based on that that they knew Wilayat definition from before converting to Islam but after demise of Prophet Muhmaaad (pbu) until now they & Sunnis tried their best to deny his wilayah by rejecting it or changing it’s definition to friendship & etc other than Imamate & leadership.

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23 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Who will take the soul, Angel of Death (عليه السلام) or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? The answer is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

People ask Imams (عليه السلام) for help when the Imams (عليه السلام) are themselves in need and they sincerely rely only to Allah an only directly ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) himself and only entrust Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and no creations. Imam Zainul Abideen (عليه السلام) said:

The angel perform the task of taking the sipirt / soul as permitted by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This is more logical  clarification / interpretation. Is not so?

Edited by Muslim2010

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Salam,

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Rabbul aalamin (Absolute Owner of Everything).  He is ar-Rahman, ar-Rahiim, and al-Malik. He is the only ONE that deserved to be worshipped and we asked for help.

All the above is the Essense of Tawhid.  And we all agreed on this issue.  It is a fundamental to the religion of Islam.  It is clearly stated in Surah Al-Fatiha.

[Shakir 1:1] In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[Shakir 1:2] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[Shakir 1:3] The Beneficent, the Merciful.
[Shakir 1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[Shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help

 

Nubuwwah and Imamah are fully owned by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  Just like "knowledge" that we have now, all fully owned by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  We are given permission to use or misuse it. 

Therefore, Nubuwwah and Imamah are parts of Tawhid.  No humans own it.  It is Allah;s (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) hands (don't get wrong here) that He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) extend to human beings so we are guided toward Tawhid...to Oneness..to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Humans are created beings from that Oneness, got separated from the Oneness and exist in duality.  That humans include Muhammad, Ali, Fatema, Adam...and all of us too.  We are from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and we are returning to Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  We need the hands that extend from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to us so that we will be guided on how to return to Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (to Tawhid) correctly.

Therefore, Allah created Chosen Slaves among his created universe.  And He installed the Nubuwwah and Immamah (part of Tawhid) to His Chosen Slaves.

Muhammad and Imams are just ordinary humans (just like all of us), except they were installed with Nubuwwah and Immamah (Allah's hands and part of Tawhid) in them.  They can't have choice of their own, only to 100% submission to Wills of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) installed with that Nubuwwah and Immamah.  Therefore, when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imam (عليه السلام) ( are talking to us, it is as if Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is talking to us.  Therefore, if we love them, it is as equivalent that we love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).because Nubuwwah and Imamah are presence in them.

If we ask them for help with the intention that they are Prophet and Imams (Nubuwwah and Imamah...or hands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) are presence in them), that Nubuwwah and Imamah are alive and listening. That Nubuwwah and Imamah NEVER die...that Hands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) always extend to us, even in the hereafter. That Nubuwwah and Imamah will answer the call for help, because Nubuwwah and Imamah belongs to Allahs solely and is part of Tawhid.  To whom Allahswt installed Nubuwwah or Imamah, those persons will never spiritually die, be it  Muhammad, Ali and Eleven others have never separated from Hands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

This why at the end of surah Al-fatiha,  after Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) introduced Tawhid, He immediately ask us to be with those in siratal mutaqim...those people who were installed with Nubuwwah and Imamah (installed with Hands of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or Tawhid), to guide humans to Tawhid.

[Shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.
[Shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

Wasssalam,

 

Layman

"I only see Light in the Prophet, nothing else and I see it while I am praying too and sometimes, I feel like the Light is showing me something.  It is peaceful feeling that I would not want to separate from it.  But I am human that full of sins and I need that Light and I am struggling to hold on to that Light.  Ya Rabb, grant me forgiveness, patience and the strength! and I know I am zalim to my ownself".

"I don't know what I am talking about, and I hope I understand it."

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9 minutes ago, layman said:

Salam

Subhanallah! That was the best post I have ever read! May Allah reward you!

Edit: The station of Nubuwwah and Imamah never dies! Alhamdulillah

Edit 2: We have been framing the whole problem incorrectly in our discussion.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Malik ul Mulk, He is the Creator, the Raziq. Do you want to say with full confidence that He cannot appoint anyone from His "Junood" for the distribution of Rizq? Do you claim to know the junood of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) while He has said this:

I clearly said that every rizq is from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Having mentality that my rizq depends on my boss or Imam (عليه السلام) but not Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is shirk. Having mentality that the rizq comes from them so I need to do anything to please them or follow their rules thinking that it comes from and my rely is putting to them is shirk. 

I can only ask and rely to Allah who is the distributer of rizq.

We can not have any slightest mentality that I got rizq from person x, rather we must have the mentality that I received my rizq from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

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10 hours ago, Cool said:

Again, why are you turning your eyes from His "Junood"? Yes, angel of death takes the souls and angels takes the souls. These are among the "junood" of my Lord the Almighty. And we believe in them:

Surah An-Nisa, Verse 136:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا آمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ عَلَىٰ رَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ مِن قَبْلُ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا بَعِيدًا

O you who believe! believe in Allah and His Apostle and the Book which He has revealed to His Apostle and the Book which He revealed before; and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His apostles and the last day, he indeed strays off into a remote error.
(English - Shakir)

 

Subhanallah, how this even turned to belief and disbelief in Angels. I'm giving the purest statement of how people should always think before they have high chance to put partners to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) or doing shirk. When Angel of death (yes that is his task, of course he exist) takes the souls, it is not the Angel of death who took the soul but it was Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who took the soul.

When the Prophet Muhammad (saws) throw (dust,peddles) and killed the enemy, it was not the Prophet Muhammad (saws) who threw and killed, it was Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)):

You did not kill them; rather it was Allah who killed them; and you did not throw when you threw,1 rather it was Allah who threw 8:17

If I get the rizq from person x, it was not that the person x gave it to me but it was Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who gave. It is He who created the person, nurtured, gave power, inspired to give rizq to me and even if the person don't even want to give it to me he would still give it to me, because rizq is like death. It comes and nothing can prevent it expect Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Edited by Abu Nur

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10 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Having mentality that my rizq depends on my boss or Imam (عليه السلام) but not Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is shirk

The question of dependence becomes useless when one already knows that whatever is in the heavens & Earth & beyond them is dependent on One & Only Being which is "As-Samad, Al-Haye ul Qaiyyum". 

Saying Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has deputed so & so for distribution of something or for doing any specific task cannot be a matter of shirk. 

So how can the statement that "Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has made my boss the wasilah for fulfilling my needs" becomes the statement of shirk? 

However, on the other hand, turning eyes from the wasilah made by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) do have serious consequences. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Al-Raziq, but He has used for Himself names like "Khayr-ur-Raziqeen" why? 

Consider the example of a mother who feed her neonate. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has made her the wasilah & hence made obligatory on us to offer thanks to her too while in fact it is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who has provided the rizq for us through her.

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The question of dependence becomes useless when one already knows that whatever is in the heavens & Earth & beyond them is dependent on One & Only Being which is "As-Samad, Al-Haye ul Qaiyyum". 

It is true, but people forget this when they are in need and depending on other creatures. How many times Muslim don't even follow this, many times.

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6 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

how this even turned to belief and disbelief in Angels

Like you are turning the matter into a shirky thing :)

8 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

When the Prophet Muhammad (saws) throw (dust,peddles) and killed the enemy, it was not the Prophet Muhammad (saws) who threw and killed, it was Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)):

Yet He has commanded us to follow & obey him in true letter & spirit. This is yet another example of "Wasilah".

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