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In the Name of God بسم الله
786:)

Kamal al Haydari on ghulat

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57 minutes ago, Muslim2010 said:

١٩_٥١    وَٱذْكُرْ فِى ٱلْكِتَٰبِ مُوسَىٰٓ ۚ إِنَّهُۥ كَانَ مُخْلَصًۭا وَكَانَ رَسُولًۭا نَّبِيًّۭا

Shakir:   And mention Musa in the Book; surely he was one purified, and he was a messenger, a prophet. (19:51)

٣٧_١١٤    وَلَقَدْ مَنَنَّا عَلَىٰ مُوسَىٰ وَهَٰرُونَ

Shakir: And certainly We conferred a favor on Musa and Haroun. (37:114)

٣٧_١٢٠    سَلَٰمٌ عَلَىٰ مُوسَىٰ وَهَٰرُونَ

Shakir: Peace be on Musa and Haroun. (37:120)

٧_١٤٤    قَالَ يَٰمُوسَىٰٓ إِنِّى ٱصْطَفَيْتُكَ عَلَى ٱلنَّاسِ بِرِسَٰلَٰتِى وَبِكَلَٰمِى فَخُذْ مَآ ءَاتَيْتُكَ وَكُن مِّنَ ٱلشَّٰكِرِينَ

Shakir: He said: O Musa! surely I have chosen you above the people with My messages and with My words, therefore take hold of what I give to you and be of the grateful ones. (7:144)

wasalam

I clearly said: What I know is that not all prophets are born by birth as Prophets. Because prophets do not follow the astray path.

So we can easily conclude that at the time when Musa (عليه السلام) was with Firawn, he was not prophet yet. And our brother claim or believe that all of them are prophets from born.

Edited by Abu Nur

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

So we can easily conclude that at the time when Musa (عليه السلام) was with Firawn, he was not prophet yet. And our brother claim or believe that all of them are prophets from born.

So you will also  conclude same with Rasulullah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) ? Just asking.

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

I clearly said: What I know is that not all prophets are born by birth as Prophets. Because prophets do not follow the astray path.

So we can easily conclude that at the time when Musa (عليه السلام) was with Firawn, he was not prophet yet. And our brother claim or believe that all of them are prophets from born.

Salam,

What is your opinion about Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Was he a Prophet by birth or not?

Remember hadith e manzilah i.e., Ali (عليه السلام) to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is like Haroon (عليه السلام) to Musa (عليه السلام).

Now lets see some verses & historical context too:

Surah Taha, Verse 37:
وَلَقَدْ مَنَنَّا عَلَيْكَ مَرَّةً أُخْرَىٰ

And certainly We bestowed on you a favor at another time;
(English - Shakir)

Surah Taha, Verse 38:
إِذْ أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ أُمِّكَ مَا يُوحَىٰ

When We revealed to your mother what was revealed;
(English - Shakir)

Surah Taha, Verse 39:
أَنِ اقْذِفِيهِ فِي التَّابُوتِ فَاقْذِفِيهِ فِي الْيَمِّ فَلْيُلْقِهِ الْيَمُّ بِالسَّاحِلِ يَأْخُذْهُ عَدُوٌّ لِّي وَعَدُوٌّ لَّهُ وَأَلْقَيْتُ عَلَيْكَ مَحَبَّةً مِّنِّي وَلِتُصْنَعَ عَلَىٰ عَيْنِي

Saying: Put him into a chest, then cast it down into the river, then the river shall throw him on the shore; there shall take him up one who is an enemy to Me and enemy to him, and I cast down upon you love from Me, and that you might be brought up before My eyes;
(English - Shakir)

Now lets see in context with the verse you have quoted and have dared to put allegation the he belonged to "daalleen" at any point of his life.

Surah Taha, Verse 40:
إِذْ تَمْشِي أُخْتُكَ فَتَقُولُ هَلْ أَدُلُّكُمْ عَلَىٰ مَن يَكْفُلُهُ فَرَجَعْنَاكَ إِلَىٰ أُمِّكَ كَيْ تَقَرَّ عَيْنُهَا وَلَا تَحْزَنَ وَقَتَلْتَ نَفْسًا فَنَجَّيْنَاكَ مِنَ الْغَمِّ وَفَتَنَّاكَ فُتُونًا فَلَبِثْتَ سِنِينَ فِي أَهْلِ مَدْيَنَ ثُمَّ جِئْتَ عَلَىٰ قَدَرٍ يَا مُوسَىٰ

When your sister went and said: Shall I direct you to one who will take charge of him? So We brought you back to your mother, that her eye might be cooled and she should not grieve and you killed a man, then We delivered you from the grief, and We tried you with (a severe) trying. Then you stayed for years among the people of Madyan; then you came hither as ordained, O Musa.
(English - Shakir)

See the word "gham", it reminds me the case of Prophet Yunus (عليه السلام). Allah has used the same words for him too when helped him. 

Now lets see his "alleged" sin/crime and how Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) responded after listening to him:

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 14:
وَلَهُمْ عَلَيَّ ذَنبٌ فَأَخَافُ أَن يَقْتُلُونِ

And they have a crime against me, therefore I fear that they may slay me.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 15:
قَالَ كَلَّا فَاذْهَبَا بِآيَاتِنَا إِنَّا مَعَكُم مُّسْتَمِعُونَ

He said: By no means, so go you both with Our signs; surely We are with you, hearing;
(English - Shakir)

How strange is that that his alleged crime was not a crime in the sight of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but its a crime for you? 

Fir'on was told by scholars about the birth of a child who would bring destruction to his kingdom. The person who prepared the box for him, the mother of Musa (عليه السلام), all knew that this is the messenger, but those who don't knew that are muslims. 

Here is a brief history:

Quote

Firawn was warned by scholars of ancient scriptures that a son born among Bani Israil would bring destruction to his kingdom. He passed orders that all male children born to them be killed.

When Musa was born, the midwife was determined either to kill him or inform Firawn, but the wonderful beauty of the baby so enchanted her that she changed her mind. Instead, she advised Musa's mother to take care of the boy and hide him from people. She went out to report that a dead girl was born and has been buried.

Spies of Firawn came to search. Musa's sister put him in the oven, but the aunt of Musa, not knowing that he was hidden there. Lit the oven and flames started shooting out.

The informers searched the house and finding flames coming out of the oven did not go near it and went away. When Musa's mother heard of the oven being lit, she came full of grief to see what had happened to her baby. She found Musa sitting in the flames and playing with them.

The mother of Musa approached Hazkil, a carpenter, to make a small box for her. He asked the purpose and was told the plan by Musa's mother who was unable to tell a lie. Hazkil made the box, but he also went to Firawn's informers to tell them what he had heard from Musa's mother. However, when he came to them, he turned dumb and on his attempt to talk by making signs, the informers considered him mad and drove him away. When he returned to his shop he was not dumb any more. Again he went to the informers but this time he not only became dumb but also lost sight. This time, again, he was driven away, but when he returned home he was fit and sound again.

Now, being convinced that the child must be the promised messenger of Allah Hazkil came to Musa's mother and declared his belief in Allah. Since Musa was the prophet of Allah Hazkil is called the believer among Firawn's people mumin min ali Firawn.

Haman is here coupled with Firawn, as the former, next to the king, was the highest authority of the state .

 

Edited by Cool

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On 3/29/2020 at 8:07 PM, 786:) said:

I think if the mainstream Shias delved more into the topic of the ghulat then they would be more aware of the truth of behind a lot of the bizarre customs and ideas propagating under the name of Ahlul Bayt. However, it is hidden from the masses because the ghulat-driven culture has become a decent industry.

You are partially right.There are many scholars who are teaching Islam without Ghluw .But there some particularly those who are debating,they do Ghluw.May Allah guide all.

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Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 18:
قَالَ أَلَمْ نُرَبِّكَ فِينَا وَلِيدًا وَلَبِثْتَ فِينَا مِنْ عُمُرِكَ سِنِينَ

(Firon) said: Did we not bring you up as a child among us, and you tarried among us for (many) years of your life?
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 19:
وَفَعَلْتَ فَعْلَتَكَ الَّتِي فَعَلْتَ وَأَنتَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ

And you did (that) deed of yours which you did, and you are one of the ungrateful.
(English - Shakir)

These are the words of Fir'on,  saying Musa (عليه السلام) is kafir. In response to this Musa (عليه السلام) said:

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 20:
قَالَ فَعَلْتُهَا إِذًا وَأَنَا مِنَ الضَّالِّينَ

He said: I did it then while I was of those unable to see the right course;
(English - Shakir)

See the similarity of the case of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Prophet Musa (عليه السلام).

Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was mentioned in Quran as follows:

Surah Ad-Dhuha, Verse 7:
وَوَجَدَكَ ضَالًّا فَهَدَىٰ

And find you lost (that is, unrecognized by men) and guide (them to you)?
(English - Shakir)

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keep us on the right path. 

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14 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

I clearly said: What I know is that not all prophets are born by birth as Prophets. Because prophets do not follow the astray path.

So we can easily conclude that at the time when Musa (عليه السلام) was with Firawn, he was not prophet yet. And our brother claim or believe that all of them are prophets from born.

Brother, First the verses quoted in my last post mention that Musa (عليه السلام) is the prophet s,a,w and among the chosen representatives of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I think we both agree.

Second, the question arises here that if we suppose that he was not a prophet (عليه السلام) by his birth then the verses of Quran needs our attention that mention how he was saved from the Firwon/ pharaoh? eg the inspiration to his mother for saving Musa a,s by keeping inside the box and sending it in the River,  Making the childhood and life safe in the palace of the firwon by Asia, the wife of firwon etc.  This case is similar to the birth of Esa (عليه السلام) when the angel came to  Maryam (عليه السلام) the mother of Esa (عليه السلام) to give the birth  of child and after his birth she took the child and she pointed out to him. Esa (عليه السلام) speaks that he is a prophet. There is no inconsistency in-principle for both the cases. The prophet Musa  had to declare that he is a prophet when the appointed time by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) came

Third, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  doth not choose those who are Zaleen, since the words of quran mentions that we do recite in our prayers to keep us on the straight path ie The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. (they are not Zaleen.)

Thus it is well proven the use of word Zaleen for Musa is only allegorical not in true meaning.

wasalam

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Quote

And they have a crime against me, therefore I fear that they may slay me.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 15:
قَالَ كَلَّا فَاذْهَبَا بِآيَاتِنَا إِنَّا مَعَكُم مُّسْتَمِعُونَ

He said: By no means, so go you both with Our signs; surely We are with you, hearing;
(English - Shakir)

Wa Aleikum Salaam,

The verse clearly state that Musa (عليه السلام) was fearful and he was thinking that they will slay him, where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) reply: By no means.

Quote

See the similarity of the case of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Prophet Musa (عليه السلام).

Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was mentioned in Quran as follows:

Surah Ad-Dhuha, Verse 7:
وَوَجَدَكَ ضَالًّا فَهَدَىٰ

And find you lost (that is, unrecognized by men) and guide (them to you)?
(English - Shakir)

Does it make to you any sense the following statement:

Then you committed that deed of yours, and you are an ingrate.’
He said, ‘I did that when I was unrecognized by men.

For me it does not make any sense so I don't see how 93:7 is related to the verse of 26:20.

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42 minutes ago, power said:

Why no? Can you kindly guide me to a verse, that supports your answer to no? Thanks. 

Because it does not necessarily mean that what happened to Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) is same with Prophet Muhammad (saws). When someone becomes Prophet, he can not make mistake regarding to the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His religion. It is very hard to attach prophethood from birth to those who clearly are mentioned in Qur'an who did zulum to themselves.

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23 hours ago, power said:

Why no? Can you kindly guide me to a verse, that supports your answer to no? Thanks. 

You may like to see this reply::

On 4/23/2020 at 9:26 AM, Muslim2010 said:

Brother, First the verses quoted in my last post mention that Musa (عليه السلام) is the prophet s,a,w and among the chosen representatives of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I think we both agree.

Second, the question arises here that if we suppose that he was not a prophet (عليه السلام) by his birth then the verses of Quran needs our attention that mention how he was saved from the Firwon/ pharaoh? eg the inspiration to his mother for saving Musa a,s by keeping inside the box and sending it in the River,  Making the childhood and life safe in the palace of the firwon by Asia, the wife of firwon etc.  This case is similar to the birth of Esa (عليه السلام) when the angel came to  Maryam (عليه السلام) the mother of Esa (عليه السلام) to give the birth  of child and after his birth she took the child and she pointed out to him. Esa (عليه السلام) speaks that he is a prophet. There is no inconsistency in-principle for both the cases. The prophet Musa  had to declare that he is a prophet when the appointed time by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) came

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010

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On 4/23/2020 at 2:07 PM, Abu Nur said:

Because it does not necessarily mean that what happened to Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) is same with Prophet Muhammad (saws). When someone becomes Prophet, he can not make mistake regarding to the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His religion. It is very hard to attach prophethood from birth to those who clearly are mentioned in Qur'an who did zulum to themselves.

The word associated  with the prophets is allegorical and it cannot be taekn in literal sense as many times exaplined in this thread. However, I have tried to make it clear with the following  sketch keeping in view the use of this word both for Adam (عليه السلام) and Shaitan as mentioned in the verses of quran:

 Peak  Positive Spiritual Level:                                      Adam (عليه السلام) – Chosen above Alimeen

 ]

 ]

 ]

 ]Lower Sipritual Level 

]

]

Zero Level _____________________________________________________________________________

]

]

]

]

]

  Peak Negative Spiritual Level:                                        Shaitan – Zalimeen

 

1.      Adam (عليه السلام) apparently missed or forgot part (of instruction) and it is mentioned for clarification & understanding (for example) he reached at Lower Spiritual level. He considered himself to reach at Peak Negative Spiritual Level (because he is immaculate) he repented. And because of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) kindness he stays at Peak Positive Spiritual level that is highest (chosen one above Alameen).

2.       The Shaitan refused deliberately to make prostration to the chosen one (ie Adam (عليه السلام)) against Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) instruction and he reached at Peak Negative Spiritual Level. He was declared as Rajeem and among the Zalimeen

3.      The use of word Zulm cannot be taken in literal sense  both for the Prophet who has standing at chosen one above Alameen with Peak Positive Spiritual Level and the one who rejected him (Adam (عليه السلام)) to make prostration to him by instruction of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and stands at Peak Negative Spiritual Level.

4.      I hope we agree to this clarification. wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
corection

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On 4/23/2020 at 10:07 PM, Abu Nur said:

 he can not make mistake regarding to the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His religion. It is very hard to attach prophethood from birth to those who clearly are mentioned in Qur'an who did zulum to themselves.

Then how can you say categorically that Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) committed an act of Zulum whilst he was not yet; Conveying the message of Allah?

There is no evidence that prophet Adam (عليه السلام) mission had commenced while he was still in heavenly abode?

“And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, 

 

Prophet Adam (عليه السلام)  act of wrongfulness can not be translated to an act of Zulum because you yourself have made it quite clear that: 

When someone becomes Prophet, he can not make mistake regarding to the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His religion.

It is then evidently clear that Prophet did not make a mistake, Regarding to the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and his religion according to the criteria stipulated by yourself.

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On 4/23/2020 at 11:38 PM, Abu Nur said:

Then you committed that deed of yours, and you are an ingrate.’

This was said by Fir'on.

On 4/23/2020 at 11:38 PM, Abu Nur said:

He said, ‘I did that when I was unrecognized by men

On 4/23/2020 at 9:10 PM, Cool said:

Surah Ash-Shuara, Verse 20:
قَالَ فَعَلْتُهَا إِذًا وَأَنَا مِنَ الضَّالِّينَ

What was the case? The person Musa (عليه السلام) killed, was here:

Surah Al-Qasas, Verse 15:
وَدَخَلَ الْمَدِينَةَ عَلَىٰ حِينِ غَفْلَةٍ مِّنْ أَهْلِهَا فَوَجَدَ فِيهَا رَجُلَيْنِ يَقْتَتِلَانِ هَٰذَا مِن شِيعَتِهِ وَهَٰذَا مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ فَاسْتَغَاثَهُ الَّذِي مِن شِيعَتِهِ عَلَى الَّذِي مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ فَوَكَزَهُ مُوسَىٰ فَقَضَىٰ عَلَيْهِ قَالَ هَٰذَا مِنْ عَمَلِ الشَّيْطَانِ إِنَّهُ عَدُوٌّ مُّضِلٌّ مُّبِينٌ

And he went into the city at a time of unvigilance on the part of its people, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his party and the other of his foes, and he who was of his party cried out to him for help against him who was of his enemies, so Musa struck him with his fist and killed him. He said: This is on account of the Shaitan's doing; surely he is an enemy, openly leading astray.
(English - Shakir)

Was he not a Prophet at that time? I suggest to just look at the 7th verse of the same chapter.

Lets see what he said afterwards:

Surah Al-Qasas, Verse 16:
قَالَ رَبِّ إِنِّي ظَلَمْتُ نَفْسِي فَاغْفِرْ لِي فَغَفَرَ لَهُ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ

He said: My Lord! surely I have done harm to myself, so do Thou protect me. So He protected him; surely He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Qasas, Verse 17:
قَالَ رَبِّ بِمَا أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيَّ فَلَنْ أَكُونَ ظَهِيرًا لِّلْمُجْرِمِينَ

He said: My Lord! because Thou hast bestowed a favor on me, I shall never be a backer of the guilty.
(English - Shakir)

 

Quote

What Músa did was not a crime; he went to help an oppressed person and, in the process, struck a blow with his fist at the oppressor. This ended, unexpectedly, in the death of the oppressor. Helping an oppressed person is a praiseworthy act in itself. The death of the oppressor, at most, can be labeled as accidental death that is not a crime or a sin.

Músa's words that “This is Shaytan's deed” does not necessarily refer to his own action. Remember that the Shaytan himself knew his limits; he says to Allah,

“…I will certainly mislead them all together except the devoted servants of Your's from among them.” (38:82-83)

And Allah says to the Shaytan,

“…As for my servants, you have no power over them except those who follow you from among the misled people….” (15:41)

And Músa surely was not among the misled servants of Allah!

So the sentence that “this is Shaytan's deed” refers to the mischief started by the oppressor himself.
As for the sentence that “My Lord I have surely been unjust to myself,” this must be interpreted in light of the meaning of dhulm explained in the case of Prophet Adam ((عليه السلام).). Its correct translation would be: “My Lord I surely have put myself into harm” — after the accidental death of the oppressor, Músa was pursued by the people of Fir'awn.

Then how do you explain the sentence after that which says that “ighfir li” which means “forgive me” and “ghafara” which means that Allah “forgave him”?

Again, the common meaning of ghafara (forgiving) is not applicable here. The word “ghafara” also means “to watch over someone” or “to guard someone” or “to cover something [i.e., protect it]”. This second meaning does not imply any sin; it just means that by accidentally killing the oppressor, Músa found himself in harm and trouble from the people of Fir'awn; and, therefore, he prays ”…therefore, guard me and Allah guarded him.”

This meaning of the last sentence is also supported by another verse of the Qur'an which quotes Allah saying to Músa that, “…when you killed an [Egyptian] man [accidentally and were being pursued by Fir'awn's people], We delivered you from the worry…” (20:40) 

 

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3 hours ago, power said:

Then how can you say categorically that Prophet Adam (عليه السلام) committed an act of Zulum whilst he was not yet; Conveying the message of Allah?

There is no evidence that prophet Adam (عليه السلام) mission had commenced while he was still in heavenly abode?

“And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, 

 

Prophet Adam (عليه السلام)  act of wrongfulness can not be translated to an act of Zulum because you yourself have made it quite clear that: 

When someone becomes Prophet, he can not make mistake regarding to the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and His religion.

It is then evidently clear that Prophet did not make a mistake, Regarding to the message of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and his religion according to the criteria stipulated by yourself.

Whatever, I'm done with repeating myself. Believe in whatever you think is right.

Edited by Abu Nur

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@Muslim2010,

Salam brother, certainly Zalim cannot be used in its commonly accepted translation i.e., un-just specifically for those who are the guided ones and were sent by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for creating justice.

They're protected ones therefore Shaitan cannot overcome them. So these verses should be translated in light of other verses describing the traits of "Mukhlaseen".

What brother @Abu Nur have understood from these verses is that Musa (عليه السلام) was not a prophet when he killed that man. While I do understand that a Prophet is a Prophet by birth.

I don't consider this matter worthy of debate as long as he believes that a Prophet is Ma'sum. 

Wassalam.

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Guest Pschological Warfare

Prophet is a Prophet by Birth or not

Infallible only in revelation. Partial Message/Prophethood is not understanding Tawheed. 

Has been the center of divide for 1400 years. 

Now, Think in terms of In  of Son of Maryman(عليه السلام) and his(عليه السلام) Imam(عليه السلام). The matter will take on real meaning and priority for the ones with Insight. 

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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

Whatever, I'm done with repeating myself. Believe in whatever you think is right.

I dont believe i was regressing.  But anyway it was nice having a dicussion with you. 

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6 hours ago, Cool said:

@Muslim2010,

Salam brother, certainly Zalim cannot be used in its commonly accepted translation i.e., un-just specifically for those who are the guided ones and were sent by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for creating justice.

They're protected ones therefore Shaitan cannot overcome them. So these verses should be translated in light of other verses describing the traits of "Mukhlaseen".

What brother @Abu Nur have understood from these verses is that Musa (عليه السلام) was not a prophet when he killed that man. While I do understand that a Prophet is a Prophet by birth.

I don't consider this matter worthy of debate as long as he believes that a Prophet is Ma'sum. 

Wassalam.

Salam,

It seems there are 3 senario:

1.  A Prophet is a Prophet by birth.  Meaning, he is maksuum/protected from the begining to the end of his life.  No substandard actions or behaviors at all.  Perfect in everything all the time.

2. A  mukhlaseen person (by mean of purification)  since born, and later part of his life is a Prophet (at the moment he received revelations from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and to spread  and guide his people).  He is purified from birth, but declared as Maksuum / protected when the title Prophet is officially given to him.  While he is at purified stage, he can have substandard actions, but always be purified.  When he given prophethood, he has no substandard actions or behaviors.  Perfect in everything.

3.  A prophet is only maksuum during delivery his message.  But he is not maksuum when he not in the state of delivery.  But he can make substandard actions (e.g forgot to perform solat fajr).  Allahbswt will purify him at later stage.

 

I make differences between Purified and Maksuum (protected).

a) A Purified person is preparation for the person to be a Prophet or an Imam (but not yet prophet or imam).  Muhammad was called Al-Amin by the people because of he is pure in his akhlaq when he was younger.   Also, we have 5 holy persons at one time.  Rasul, Ali, Fatema, Hassan and Hussain.  Are all of them are maksuum at the same time, or all of them are purified at the same time?

2.  Maksuumn is reserved when the purified person (potential candidate for a Prophet or Imams) was officially made by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as a Prophet or Imam at specific date (onward) and they have  to deliver with clear messages (from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)) to the people.

3.  Can we have few Prophets who are maksuum at the same time? My understanding, is Yes.  

4.  Can we have few Imams that are maksuum at the same time on  the same land?.  Only one is maksuum  the rest are purified.

5.  Can a person at purified level make substandard decision? My personal answer is Yes.  When the person is officially declared as a Prophet / Imam, then he is maksuum /protected.  A maksuum is always up to the standard in his behaviors.  No oops or mistakes.  His actions is inspiration into his souls directly by Allahswt.

Wallahu aalam.

Correct me if needed.  This is a discussion.

Layman

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