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In the Name of God بسم الله

Viruses & Vaccinations


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Warning! Views expressed and sources provided here may be false, misleading, and may not reflect proper medical science. Please refer to a licensed medical professional concerning health related issues. 

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20 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

There was a study, I can't find it now. Not the first time I lost stuff, probably not the last.
Looks like no extra study on vaccines these days. Milken institute went from tracking 262 vaccines to zero. 

Today I see a headline about India dropping cases some 97% with Ivermectin, then I read the "Fact checkers" story of absolutely no evidence. Then I find this;

https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LEGAL-NOTICE-FOR-CONTEMPT_JUNE-13-2021.pdf

I actually read that pdf, it starts off ok and then comes to this bit, where the petitioner makes the following claim against the WHO:

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It seems that, in order to save yourself and the other accused involved in the larger conspiracy and to cause wrongful gain to the Pharma Mafia and others, you have executed this criminal conspiracy to deprive the people of India of panacea like Ivermectin and possibly some other drugs too and you three Noticees are hell bent on preventing people from returning to semblance of normalcy. The further game plan of your group is to keep the public reeling under constant fear and further push them into the poverty. The conspiracy is being executed with the full knowledge that there are massive loss of lives of common people, which is nothing but a clear case of cold blooded mass murders i.e. genocide.

I think we can safely put these people in the nutjob pigeonhole.

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5 hours ago, slavelight said:

@Haji 2003Did you watch the video Dr. dan stock on virology and immunology treatments. on the other thread "could covid-19 be a conspiracy"

No. But this rebuttal of that video seems very well informed:

 

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13 hours ago, slavelight said:

I think the comments bring up some good points

As for the specific point that Stock raised about masks that is also addressed in this video:

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Across these analyses, we find that an entire population wearing masks in public leads to a median reduction in the reproduction number R of 25.8%, with 95% of the medians between 22.2% and 30.9%.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.16.21258817v1

So masks are not a magic bullet, but they make a contribution and that ultimately means lower deaths. End of. 

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9 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

As for the specific point that Stock raised about masks that is also addressed in this video:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.16.21258817v1

So masks are not a magic bullet, but they make a contribution and that ultimately means lower deaths. End of. 

https://fee.org/articles/new-danish-study-finds-masks-don-t-protect-wearers-from-covid-infection/

“Researchers in Denmark reported on Wednesday that surgical masks did not protect the wearers against infection with the coronavirus in a large randomized clinical trial,” the New York Times reports.

To conduct the study, which ran from early April to early June, scientists at the University of Copenhagen recruited more than 6,000 participants who had tested negative for COVID-19 immediately prior to the experiment.

Half the participants were given surgical masks and instructed to wear them outside the home; the other half were instructed to not wear a mask outside the home.

Roughly 4,860 participants finished the experiment, the Times reports. The results were not encouraging.

“The researchers had hoped that masks would cut the infection rate by half among wearers. Instead, 42 people in the mask group, or 1.8 percent, got infected, compared with 53 in the unmasked group, or 2.1 percent. The difference was not statistically significant,” the Times reports.

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7 hours ago, slavelight said:

“Researchers in Denmark reported on Wednesday that surgical masks did not protect the wearers against infection with the coronavirus in a large randomized clinical trial,” the New York Times reports.

When you wear the mask it protects the people around you:

facecovering_original.png

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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

When you wear the mask it protects the people around you:

facecovering_original.png

Im sure I can find some study to disaprove this, but I am not going to waste my time.

Anyways, common sense tells me that if vaccines works then why the need to wear a mask? Or if masks works why the need to take vaccine? and if masks works why the (10feet?) distance rule? Does doing all the steps work? some countries have shown quite the contrary, I think Israel was one of them.

BTW im not a "conspiracy theorist" so please don't label me as such. I just like to have discussions of current event and like to ask questions. In other social media if you mention some of the things here or from other threads you quickly become labeled as "conspiracy theorist".

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6 hours ago, slavelight said:

Im sure I can find some study to disaprove this, but I am not going to waste my time.

Anyways, common sense tells me that if vaccines works then why the need to wear a mask? Or if masks works why the need to take vaccine? and if masks works why the (10feet?) distance rule? Does doing all the steps work? some countries have shown quite the contrary, I think Israel was one of them.

BTW im not a "conspiracy theorist" so please don't label me as such. I just like to have discussions of current event and like to ask questions. In other social media if you mention some of the things here or from other threads you quickly become labeled as "conspiracy theorist".

There are still people who are unvaccinated and catching the virus after getting vaccinated can happen and if you catch it, you will infect unvaccinated people. The vaccine does not give 100% immunity to catch it.  The vaccine reduces your chances to go to the hospital by 96% in some vaccines, even against delta variant.

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9 hours ago, slavelight said:

Im sure I can find some study to disaprove this, but I am not going to waste my time.

 

I think we can both agree with the above statement, given what you say next:

 

9 hours ago, slavelight said:

Anyways, common sense tells me that if vaccines works then why the need to wear a mask? Or if masks works why the need to take vaccine?

 

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On 8/9/2021 at 8:18 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

How lost and deluded can these people be? This is exactly happens when people start mixing politics and religion together. I know it's an unpopular  opinion here, but look how removed the man is from the message of the Scriptures. Imagine humanizing Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by ascribing your political beliefs to Him. 

This is really drawing out the difference between Christians and Christians. 

We've had three pastors arrested for continuing services during all this.
First one spent 37 days in jail because it was his calling to fulfill the duties as Christ commanded, and he couldn't lie about it. If he would have said yah yah, he'd have been out by the next weekend. During the time he was in jail, there were two fences around the parameter of the country church, chained, locked, and guarded by the RCMP. The chains came off and the fence came down for July 1st when the Premier opened Alberta. (It had to happen so Calgary could have a stampede). His congregation carried on, meeting in a half dozen secret outdoor spaces until the drones found them. It's really an incredible story. 

The Pastor went to court. They set aside four days for the trial. It was adjourned ending the second day with the prosecution not having enough evidence that "public health orders" were required.  "Adjourned indefinitely" until prosecution had enough evidence. If somehow that makes sense. Nowhere is recorded outrage from the congregation.

The second broke sermon to call the Calgary Police gestapo and chase them off the property 3 Sundays in a row. They finally arrested him on a Monday, on the main 3 lane artery through Calgary, reducing traffic to one lane with 7 cruisers. The cuffed him face down, dragged him to the arrest cruiser, kicking screaming all the way. His congregation held protests and showed their unchristian talents to neighbors and everyone around. I had a fb conversation with one of them. There's nowhere in the NT about mob mentality being a good thing. 

The third got picked up at him home. He declared at the time of his arrest his reasons for following Christ over imposed laws with no basis. Then hugged his wife and kids, prayed with them and got in the cruiser uncuffed. Very little more than that on his story. 
You can be sure they investigated the churches for cases. There were two in the first church identified as having tested positive shortly after attending the church. No mention of their condition, no other cases have been reported since.
 

On the other hand...Last count, 129 people contracted covid from the Stampede.
They declared the Stampede 2021 the best ever but half the rodeo was gone, and so was attendance. Reduced to rides and beer tents. You required a vaccine passport, (proof of vaccination), to get in to the party tents. They explain that 325+ people were still in their "incubation period", (when you're most contagious). This is estimated minimum 8 days, to 20, (depends who you listen to), after getting first or second jab, . They didn't report variants, just "Increasing numbers !!". 
There have been "Protest Rodeos" around the province, no recorded cases. Between rodeos and churches you'd think they would have caught at least one case.
I thank God I am in a position where I only have to watch the clowns. 
 

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On 8/13/2021 at 5:41 PM, slavelight said:

Im sure I can find some study to disaprove this, but I am not going to waste my time.

Anyways, common sense tells me that if vaccines works then why the need to wear a mask? Or if masks works why the need to take vaccine? and if masks works why the (10feet?) distance rule? Does doing all the steps work? some countries have shown quite the contrary, I think Israel was one of them.

BTW im not a "conspiracy theorist" so please don't label me as such. I just like to have discussions of current event and like to ask questions. In other social media if you mention some of the things here or from other threads you quickly become labeled as "conspiracy theorist".

It says right there in your own link "The study, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, did not contradict growing evidence that masks can prevent transmission of the virus from wearer to others. 

I don't know why people still question this. The virus can travel in droplets, masks prevent the escape of moisture from your mouth, therefore masks prevent (to some degree) spread of the virus.

 

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30 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

I don't know why people still question this.

There's a belief being promoted, that if you question everything (no matter how true it may be), somehow that demonstrates your free-thinking, critical and intellectual faculty.

 

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8 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

There's a belief being promoted, that if you question everything (no matter how true it may be), somehow that demonstrates your free-thinking, critical and intellectual faculty.

 

Well it's certainly demonstrating something. "Intellectual" wasn't my first thought though haha.

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15 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

There's a belief being promoted, that if you question everything (no matter how true it may be), somehow that demonstrates your free-thinking, critical and intellectual faculty.

 

It's called the skeptic community or the "enlightned" community and they are cancerous. The question everything and it's unhealthy.

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One of the sources that anti-vaxxers are citing is Robert Malone (the 'inventor' of mRNA). His story is examined in some detail in the article in The Atlantic.

This is the last paragraph:

Quote

 

The irony is that, to the audiences who tune in to those shows, the vaccines are seen as a scourge rather than a godsend. No matter how nuanced Malone might try to be, or how many qualifiers he appends to his opinions, he is egging on vaccine hesitancy at a time when hospitals in the least-vaccinated parts of the country are struggling to cope with an influx of new COVID-19 patients. If you want proof of that, scroll through the many comments from his followers thanking him for confirming their fears. Malone has finally made his mark, by undermining confidence in the very vaccine he says wouldn’t be possible without his genius. It’s a victory, of sorts, but one that he and the rest of us may come to regret.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

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A conservative radio host from Tennessee who was critical of vaccination efforts and mask mandates died on Saturday, after weeks in a Nashville hospital battling Covid-19.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/21/tennessee-radio-host-phil-valentine-vaccine-vaccination-dies-covid-19

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On 8/21/2021 at 3:20 AM, Haji 2003 said:

One of the sources that anti-vaxxers are citing is Robert Malone (the 'inventor' of mRNA). His story is examined in some detail in the article in The Atlantic.

I've seen a lot on Dr. Malone, (inventor of mRNA), Mike Yeadon, (former Pfizer exec.), and Kary Mullis, (inventor of PCR tests). They had major credibility in their day, made big money, won prizes. Why are they discredited for saying their inventions are not being used properly? If anyone would know the proper and improper usage, these three should know.

It reminds me of a project I worked on. Once completed everybody thought it was a great idea yet they opted to go third party which only shifted costs and took all the value out of the project. The problem with my project was that it left no opportunity for kickbacks. After 20 yrs of dealing with salespeople and Supply Services I can say that kickbacks has played a major part in the purchasing world.

N95s have been manufactured by 3M in the States for a very long time. Not sure why this guy recommends KN95s. K means, made in China. The place where masks were found to contain graphene oxide. 

My company preferred I buy the cheaper 8210s. Same rating as N95 without the vent valve. The men were complaining about breathing, headaches, lack of energy, and smelling their coffee and cigarettes all day. The N95 with the check valve was the answer.

This was the first mask everyone was clamoring for. Wrong mask for a virus, and I tried to explain why to people. That's when I became a "conspiracy theorist". About 3 months later health officials realized it and masks with check valves were dumped. Nobody looked back to what I had said. The bandwagon only looks forward.

Once tagged a theorist, always a theorist. Knowledge/research doesn't matter. I can't post anything sensitive to the narrative on fb, it's removed by some technical error as soon as I type key words. All I can do is post something generically related and comment on the post later.

In 2011 the Who published a paper on PCR tests and how effective they were at detecting viruses, SARS, MERS, Ebola, influenzas A and B... Come 2020 they're covid only. Reminding people is what got Kary Mullis removed. 

Droplets vs aerosol, covid vs influenza. Many NIH studies say N95s not effective against influenza. 80 city bus drives tested positive. My question was; Did the droplets come out of someone's mask, go over or under the plexiglass barrier, then up or down and into the drivers mask...or did they catch a flu bug? Remember, it's 2020, PCR tests are for covid only. Droplets have weight.

Pfizer was in phase II when it was approved. We are phase III.

Pfizer alone caused 350K+ European adverse events. Pretty much tied with AZ on everything. The interesting part is they are not related in composition. Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA, AZ is viral vecter, derived from similar viral monkey guts.

J&J would seem to be the best choice as it is non-replicating. They also have good and bad numbers associated. J&J came into the picture late and is not so wide spread. The adverse events are comparable in format to mRNA in the early stages but I haven't taken the time to compare them proportionally, (a day or more). Problem is, "non replicating" won't let you fly around the world. 

I've looked at ivermectin good and bad. The majority of articles go passed the data and churn an opinion that either draws you in or creates an aversion. 
Dr. Galvin also persuades you that, even though he uses ivermectin and vitamin D, and zinc, it's not a "miracle cure", therefore leaves you wondering if it's worth it. Then again he says he's treated hundreds, his argument is that two people died anyway.  Ivermectin is showing in the 90+% range in other studies. If the doctor treated 100 patients, that would be 98%. success. 200 would be 99%, "hundreds" would leave the number in decimals. The majority of adverse events have been minor, or have been from people taking a horses dose. 

Probably the best portrayal of ivermectin comes from a recent NIH study.  

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

It's much more efficient when studied as a treatment rather than a miracle cure.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Pfizer was in phase II when it was approved. We are phase III.

I chair the patient advisory group for a well known international hospital. We discuss and make recommendations for clinical trials that the hospital is running.

Last week one of the products that came up was a device used in heart surgery. The trial involved studying the health outcomes for patients undergoing surgery using the device vs. those who do not have the device used.

What surprised us is that this is the first such study internationally and that the device is already approved for use in Europe and the United States. In the UK one of our regulators is interested in this study because they just want to be sure that the (tax) money spent buying it is cost effective.

When we lay people expressed surprise the people running the trial said that there are many such products already in use that have not had trials of the sort we had been discussing.

So while you may well be able to advise people who are not in hospital - if they do get covid and get admitted, they'll likely be receiving all manner of drugs and treatments.

I have yet to see any sceptics posting on social media how you deny treatment you don't like once you are in hospital - seems to me that once the hospital threshold is crossed even the most avid anti-masker and anti-vaxxer submits to whatever treatment may be offered to them, regardless of clinical trial stage.

 

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13 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salaam everyone, 

Could someone verify if the study he is mentioning has any veracity? He is talking about how “Imperfect vaccination” enhances transmission??

 

 

@slavelight @starlight

this could be one of the reasons we are seeing these delta variants

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28 minutes ago, slavelight said:

this could be one of the reasons we are seeing these delta variants

The delta variant first emerged in India, where levels of vaccination were very low.

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54 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

The delta variant first emerged in India, where levels of vaccination were very low.

Can u explain what the study means^^? Is it reliable?

Thanks

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On 8/23/2021 at 10:06 AM, 313_Waiter said:

Can u explain what the study means^^? Is it reliable?

Thanks

I can't see what is so difficult to understand.

  • Yes getting the vaccine can have side-effects. 
  • Yes the vaccines are not 100% effective.
  • Yes masks are not 100% effective.

But a combination of the above + social distancing will help reduce the transmission and incidence of the virus. The people who do not like the above can choose to stay home all the time - but that's also an option they do not want.

Ignore the above and you get the problems they are currently facing in various Republican states around America.

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On 8/23/2021 at 10:38 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Yes getting the vaccine can have side-effects. 

Ok this makes sense (I misread the article a bit but now it makes sense).
I have the following questions (genuine questions). They are not just for you (I understand you are not Google lol) but anyone who can find the research:

For covid vaccines like pfizer, AstraZeneca or moderna what percentage of the doses caused serious side effects like death or clotting?

On 8/23/2021 at 10:38 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Yes the vaccines are not 100% effective.

Yes the CDC says the Pfizer is 95% effective: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6950e2.htm?s_cid=mm6950e2_w

This Israeli study shows Pfizer is 64% effective against the Delta variant:

https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/05072021-03

But were there any control group in these study?

Also I want to know about the statistics for covid itself.

What percentage of people die or get severe illness from covid?

This Australian government website below says that around 2.2% of the people who get covid die, the vast majority of whom are 60+. This is not a small number, but was correlation vs causation taken into account?

Also, what percentage of people got severe illness from covid?

https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-case-numbers-and-statistics#covid19-summary-statistics

Is it true that the vast majority of people recover from covid?

If you are young and healthy, is there really any reason to get the vaccine from, for example, Pfizer - a company that has been fined $2.3 billion over false advertising over its medicine? Why risk the side effects (especially long term)? 

Jazakallah Khayr

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^ the questions you ask make sense, but only at the level of the individual.

  1. When you have a disease which is transmissible, the low risk that you may have of contracting the disease is not the only factor to take into the equation - you also have to consider your ability to pass on the virus while you are infected.
  2. You may well recover - but the person you pass it onto may not. Secondly the more people that the virus contaminates the more likely it is that another variant will arise.

Remember that while non-Muslims may well bark about personal freedom etc. as a Muslim you are signed up to giving the highest value to human life. If you are the cause of death of another individual that's a problem from an Islamic perspective.  

Interestingly you also ask about control groups for the trials of the vaccines. Before we consider trial methodologies, how many other drugs that you have taken have you subjected to the same level of scrutiny?

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On 8/22/2021 at 12:36 PM, Son of Placid said:

Once tagged a theorist, always a theorist. Knowledge/research doesn't matter. I can't post anything sensitive to the narrative on fb, it's removed by some technical error as soon as I type key words. All I can do is post something generically related and comment on the post later.

"Conspiracy theorist" just means "anyone who questions the narratives of the democrat party". I know you're in Canada, but Trudeau is essentially a United States democrat with how "woke" and politically correct he is.

"democrat" is a worldwide movement of globalist elites that think that they not only know better than you do, but the fact that they're elites means that they should have the right to dictate your life to you. They were thrown out of Russia by Vladimir Putin, which is why they hate him so much now.

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Twitter thread on the benefits of vaccinating children. The author is someone whose colleague is on the reading list on a behaviour change course that I run for doctors.

 

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On 8/23/2021 at 4:10 PM, Haji 2003 said:

The delta variant first emerged in India, where levels of vaccination were very low.

maybe because its one of the most unhygienic and populated countries in the world.

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