Viruses & Vaccinations

[Haji 2003]

On 2/2/2022 at 8:11 AM, Berber-Shia said:

Muslims have Ignored Qur’anic Guidance in COVID Panic

https://crescent.icit-digital.org/articles/muslims-have-ignored-qur-anic-guidance-in-covid-panic

Some interesting material there, but also a great deal of supposition.

Take this:

Quote

Some possible questions to be considered: Where did this virus come from? Is it a bioweapon? Is it being used for geo-political ends? Is it as deadly as their models say? Is there a solution at hand? What is the best way forward?

Quite frankly these are second order questions. The first order questions are to do with the health impact of the virus and what you can do to avoid it.

Whether or not the virus is being used for geo-political ends is a non-starter if you are already dead because you did not take precautions.

Quote

 He told Muslims not to trust the global elite, do rigorous investigations, and come up with our own response while relying on Allah’s assistance.

This is one of the more sensible pieces in the article. What does 'rigorous research' mean? I am not sure it means this:

Quote

Dr. Barrett has been exploring the possible geo-political underpinnings of COVID in his False Flag Weekly News podcasts for two years and also held a COVID origins webinar in May 2020.

I do think it means looking at different countries (and states within the US) responses to Covid and why they did what they did.

What are the lessons?

Rightwing leaders who appear to care little about their populations, did very little indeed and focused on the mantra of freedom. More socially minded leaders put health above money imposed lockdowns, social distancing and so on.

In fact Iran is a very good example of a country that is disconnected from global Pharma, the international banking system etc. and whose policies have been fairly orthodox when it comes to dealing with the virus.

Iran has not gone for the ivermectin route or any of the other Trump promoted remedies.

Iran has gone for vaccines and so has Cuba (the two countries have collaborated on one vaccine). Cuba is also not part of the global capitalist system.

[Hameedeh]

From the national news: Two months ago the US had 800,000+ deaths from Covid-19. Today it has surpassed 900,000+. Get vaccinated. 

[justAnothermuslim]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:41 AM, Haji 2003 said:

The first sentence of the above article says this:

So you go to citation number one and what is it?

It's a blog post.

 

Do you understand what they are saying?

No doubt my understanding could be flawed. Thus the reason for asking “Any thoughts on it?”

Do enlighten me your take on it.

[Haji 2003]

https://twitter.com/wsebag/status/1490611295367794695?s=20&t=_DvY103EvZi2XQ-8rG0fCg

[Hameedeh]

This is a new email from The Imam Mahdi Association of Marjaeya (I.M.A.M.). 

PSA: Free At-Home COVID-19 Test Kits

February 7, 2022

Dear Believers in the United States,

Peace be upon you.

Almighty God says, “O you who have faith! Save yourselves and your families…” [Holy Quran, 66:6]

Prevention is a rational principle that religion calls for and invites people to adhere to for the purpose of ensuring safety, especially with respect to health. Reason dictates that prevention is better than cure.

The initiative announced by the United States Postal Service to deliver Covid-19 testing kits to homes for free is a kind initiative and deserves appreciation, for it aims to prevent and thus reduce the spread of the virus. When a person knows that they are infected, they quarantine and prevent the spread of the virus. This will certainly be in the interest of society and public safety. God Almighty will reward all those who respect the rights of others.

So in case you missed it, to learn more about how to get your free kit mailed to your home at no cost,

https://imam-us.org/psa-free-at-home-covid-19-test-kits

[Guest get vaccinated]

You have 20 times the risk of death from Covid-19 today, if you are unvaccinated. Please get vaccinated. 

[Haji 2003]

Why you can't win against an anti-vaxxer

 

[Haji 2003]

Quote

 

Question  Does adding ivermectin, an inexpensive and widely available antiparasitic drug, to the standard of care reduce the risk of severe disease in patients with COVID-19 and comorbidities?

Findings  In this open-label randomized clinical trial of high-risk patients with COVID-19 in Malaysia, a 5-day course of oral ivermectin administered during the first week of illness did not reduce the risk of developing severe disease compared with standard of care alone.

Meaning  The study findings do not support the use of ivermectin for patients with COVID-19.

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2789362?guestAccessKey=58760460-df0f-4790-9257-8f3682dca39b&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=021822

[Haji 2003]

Ivermectin study results released

 

Quote

Treatment with ivermectin did not result in a lower incidence of medical admission to a hospital due to progression of Covid-19 or of prolonged emergency department observation among outpatients with an early diagnosis of Covid-19. (Funded by FastGrants and the Rainwater Charitable Foundation; TOGETHER ClinicalTrials.gov number, NCT04727424

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869

 

This was the method:

Quote

We conducted a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, adaptive platform trial involving symptomatic SARS-CoV-2–positive adults recruited from 12 public health clinics in Brazil. Patients who had had symptoms of Covid-19 for up to 7 days and had at least one risk factor for disease progression were randomly assigned to receive ivermectin (400 μg per kilogram of body weight) once daily for 3 days or placebo. (The trial also involved other interventions that are not reported here.) The primary composite outcome was hospitalization due to Covid-19 within 28 days after randomization or an emergency department visit due to clinical worsening of Covid-19 (defined as the participant remaining under observation for >6 hours) within 28 days after randomization.

 

The study has 3515 participants.

[Guest Thanks]

On 4/3/2022 at 2:35 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Ivermectin study results released

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869

 

This was the method:

 

The study has 3515 participants.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35070575/

This is a larger study, significant results with ivermectin. 

[Son of Placid]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:35 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Ivermectin study results released

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869

 

This was the method:

 

The study has 3515 participants.

NCT04727424 is an all inclusive study. Won't be concluded until next year. 

400 μg is about double the normal prescribed dose for it's original purpose. 

Milken Institute is tracking 332 treatments. Some have proven to be ineffective and trials have died, all others have been postponed until at least next year.
CPI-006 has been studied in 91 locations in more than a dozen US states, and a dozen countries, since Feb 2021. Managed to make phase III. Time frame, 28 days, Still no results.
May 31st 2021 was a completion date for many of the treatments postponed.

LY-COV555 Trial started Oct 2020. So far they've found out it works in monkeys. 

A tremendously time consuming site. https://covid-19tracker.milkeninstitute.org/

 

[justAnothermuslim]

On 2/20/2022 at 4:13 AM, Haji 2003 said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2789362?guestAccessKey=58760460-df0f-4790-9257-8f3682dca39b&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=021822

If only the primary outcome of the study was to measure the effectiveness of Ivermectin (IVM) in saving the patients' lives, i would say the study was a resounding success: the deaths among IVM group was 3X less than the deaths in the Control group.

 

Find me one patient who wouldn’t take any of the above odds while ill in a hospital with COVID with a drug as ridiculously safe as ivermectin. My god. Find me one patient who would worry about developing a need for oxygen more than developing a condition called death.

 

https://pierrekory.substack.com/p/the-disinformation-campaign-against?utm_source=url&s=r

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by justAnothermuslim

[justAnothermuslim]

 

It’s Time To Prosecute the Lie About Mandates?

There is a grave misconception that restrictions are ending because they did their job. After two long years, we finally coerced enough jabs, masked enough people, and closed enough businesses that the science is granting us a reprieve.

But if the science deserves any credit, it’s only because our leaders have stopped holding it hostage.

The end of mandates comes as we retake logic, finally realizing in sufficient numbers that the safety measures meant to help us only gave us harm.

But it is not enough to call a truce with failed COVID policy, which wanted permanent damage for society. Until we prosecute its malfeasance in the court of public opinion, another promised “new normal” is liable to come back either with renewed vigor or in another form.

Between lockdowns that couldn’t stop spread, nonsensical masking and distancing rules that ignored the physics of aerosols, and vaccine mandates that were blind to natural immunity, none of our COVID safety rituals — nor all of them combined — were ever worth the cost of enforcement.

 

[justAnothermuslim]

What We Learned From Hating the Unvaccinated

Only weeks ago, it was the admitted goal of our own leaders to make life unlivable for the unvaccinated. And as a deputized collective, we force-multiplied that pain, taking the fight into our families, friendships, and workplaces. Today, we face the hard truth that none of it was justified — and, in doing that, uncover a precious lesson.

It was a quick slide from righteousness to cruelty, and however much we might blame our leaders for the push, we’re accountable for stepping into the trap despite better judgement.

We knew that waning immunity put vast numbers of the fully vaccinated on par with the shrinking minority of unvaccinated, yet we marked them for special persecution. We said they hadn’t “done the right thing” by turning their bodies over to state care — even though we knew that principled opposition to such a thing is priceless in any circumstance. And we truly let ourselves believe that going into another ineffectual lockdown would be their fault, not the fault of toxic policy.

And so it was by the wilful ignorance of science, civics, and politics that we squeezed the unvaccinated to the degree that we did.

[Ashvazdanghe]

In this study, we demonstrate that the Sputnik V vaccine has the highest rate of adverse effects, followed by the AstraZeneca and Sinopharm vaccines. COVID-19 vaccines used in Iran are safe and there were no reports of serious adverse effects.

 

 

[justAnothermuslim]

 

WHY ARE YOU AWAKE WHEN SO MANY AREN’T ? ARE YOU IN GROUP ONE OR GROUP TWO ?

Those in control desperately want us all vaxxed as soon as possible. Why is this? And why are you awake to the agenda, while so many choose to be asleep? There are five major points awake people understand that asleep people do not. Here they are.

 

1. [2:50] Awake people know that political establishment has become completely corrupted.

2. [3:50] Awake people know that Vaccine Passport has been been planned for many years -nothing to do with health.

3. [5:20] Awake people know that selling vaccine is incredibly profitable.

4. [7:15] Awake people know that they should be very very wary of what is being pushed by on them.

5. [8:27] Awake people know that there could be long term health consequences for taking mRNA vaccines.

Source

 

[justAnothermuslim]

 

 

Bro@Hasani Samnani, need your expert opinion on this.

The reality, Dr Bhakdi explained, is that mRNA technology – spike protein or not – perverts the genetic functioning of the body’s cells by instructing them to produce disease fragments. This transforms our own cells and tissues from ‘self’ into ‘non-self’, inviting the immune system to attack. It is a recipe for medical disaster that turns the body against itself. Dr Bhakdi called the plan to roll out the underlying mRNA technology from COVID-19 to conventional vaccines:

“The greatest conceivable man-made catastrophe of all time… Routine introduction of gene-based vaccines spells the downfall of man and mankind.”

 

Source

A reminder: Views expressed and sources provided here may be false, misleading, and may not reflect proper medical science. Please refer to a licensed medical professional concerning health related issues. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Hameedeh
A reminder: Views expressed and sources provided here may be false, misleading, and may not reflect proper medical science. Please refer to a licensed medical professional concerning health related issues.

[Guest Guest]

2 hours ago, justAnothermuslim said:

Bro@Hasani Samnani, need your expert opinion on this.

The reality, Dr Bhakdi explained, is that mRNA technology – spike protein or not – perverts the genetic functioning of the body’s cells by instructing them to produce disease fragments. This transforms our own cells and tissues from ‘self’ into ‘non-self’, inviting the immune system to attack. 

Have you read about Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi on Wikipedia? He has made so many untrue statements (and claims) that he is unreliable as an expert. Why do you want to follow what he says? Because he says controversial things?

Edited July 6, 2022 by ShiaChat Mod
off-topic removed

[Hasani Samnani]

15 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Have you read about Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi on Wikipedia? He has made so many untrue statements (and claims) that he is unreliable as an expert. Why do you want to follow what he says? Because he says controversial things?

Are we now trusting everything that is written on Wikipedia as Quranic level truth.

Our sect knows most of all what happens when a powerful and economically strong authority decides on a certain Narrative despite significant contradictory evidence. There have always been enough sycophantic government shills since the earliest times. Now we do have a Medical Industrial Complex which denies natural , ancient , alternative and nutritional based therapies in favor of profits.

That's why the  North American and European systems of education have been very successful, they used to allow free thought and free speech. That's why tenured professors were rarely even sanctioned despite the most controversial topics and quotes. Anyone who must silence alternative viewpoints succeeds in only weakening there own arguments. 

The issue with Covid is a mass formation psychosis, and proponents on both sides are so invested in their own version of the truth, they refuse to change despite significant evidence to the contrary. 

It is one of the reasons that the truly rightly guided are Willing to change viewpoints  once presented with evidence even if it is contradictory to their original beliefs. Instead of adopting Sacred Cows (that can't be harmed) we should engage in open discussions Respectfully and try to follow the evidence despite new consensus we don't agree with, since evidence supports reasoned arguments.

In medicine we used to bleed people purposefully,  doctors used to advertise cigarettes,  nutritionists used to give sugary food and dense carbohydrates.

I used to love the famous Patrick Henry quote , who said "I may not agree with you,  I will defend to the death your right to say it "

[Haji 2003]

5 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Instead of adopting Sacred Cows (that can't be harmed) we should engage in open discussions Respectfully and try to follow the evidence despite new consensus we don't agree with, since evidence supports reasoned arguments.

What the internet has shown over the past 2 decades is that the argument that wins can be the one which is repeated most often and it's not necessarily the correct one.

[justAnothermuslim]

On 7/6/2022 at 10:40 AM, Guest Guest said:

Have you read about Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi on Wikipedia?

Like this one?

I have and it says nothing about the cells and tissues (after having being turned from self into non-self) being attacked by the immune system.

On 7/6/2022 at 10:40 AM, Guest Guest said:

He has made so many untrue statements (and claims) that he is unreliable as an expert.

I think, it would be good for you to read up CDC's explanation on How The mRNA Vaccine Works.

 

Here’s the relevant excerpt:

1. First, mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. After vaccination, the mRNA will enter the muscle cells. Once inside, they use the cells’ machinery to produce a harmless piece of what is called the spike protein.

2. Next, our cells display the spike protein piece on their surface. Our immune system recognizes that the protein does not belong there. This triggers our immune system to produce antibodies and activate other immune cells to fight off what it thinks is an infection.

Basically both are saying the same thing (with different emphasis): our immune system will mount an attack on those cells and tissues which have produced spike proteins on their surfaces.

Are you now saying CDC is spreading disinformation? Or was it due to the lack of understanding how the mRNA vaccine work that made you throw such an accusation?

As a layman, I can’t visualize the implication of this “attack” on these “non-self” cells in the heart, liver, kidney etc, etc. and thus the reason for asking an opinion from bro @Hasani Samnani.

On 7/6/2022 at 10:40 AM, Guest Guest said:

Why do you want to follow what he says? Because he says controversial things?

Nah, it’s nothing like that.

I try to follow as best as I can the following advice:-

Those who listen to the word, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are men of understanding.

[justAnothermuslim]

On 7/7/2022 at 2:32 AM, Haji 2003 said:

What the internet has shown over the past 2 decades is that the argument that wins can be the one which is repeated most often and it's not necessarily the correct one.

 

What’s is even more amazing than this is that: during the past 2 years, you just need to obey in order to be a good citizen. You may find the article “Are you a good german or a badass german?” thought-provoking in its’ own convoluted way.No question asked. p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }a:link { color: #000080; so-language: zxx; text-decoration: underline }

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, justAnothermuslim said:

What’s is even more amazing than this is that: during the past 2 years, you just need to obey in order to be a good citizen.

Why don't we cut to the chase with this list provided by the article above, its premise is that if you say yes to the questions below you are like the Germans who followed the Nazis.

I've answered some of the questions.

A question that is never asked by these people is, "who stood to gain from people NOT locking down, NOT wearing masks and NOT social distancing?".

And those people were the capitalists.

So all this 'free-thinking and non-herd' behaviour boils down to keeping landlords in money.

From the link above

Did you:

1. Trust your government? - no I don't. The UK government has relaxed many restrictions (under pressure from capitalists), but I still follow many of them.

2. Believe their propaganda? - 

3. Fear what they told you to fear?

4. Dismiss what they told you to dismiss?

5. Hate whom they told you to hate?

6. Inhabit their manufactured illusion?

7. Delegate your thinking to fact-chokers?

8. Suppress your conscience?

9. Listen to your leaders and “experts”? - if you believe that someone with qualifications & an opinion is the same as someone with just an opinion - that's your problem.

10. Follow their rules?

11. Go with the herd? - You were vaccinated against many diseases and did not subsequently catch them because your parents followed the herd.

12. Fail to question? Questions work where you are genuinely searching for truth, they don't when you are just trying and failing to look clever.

13. Pass their obedience test?

14. Accept BigPharma into your heart? Those people who rejected BigPharma and ended up on a ventilator, were consuming Big Pharma products in their final hours and minutes.

15. Become an experimental subject? You are always an experimental subject but you may prefer to be in the control arm.

16. Relinquish your independence?

17. Give up your rights and freedoms?

18. Behave in a cowardly manner?

19. Remain silent in the face of corruption, injustice, bullying, discrimination, and democide?

20. Censor, cancel, block, and blame those who didn’t do any of the above?

[Hasani Samnani]

2 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Why don't we cut to the chase with this list provided by the article above, its premise is that if you say yes to the questions below you are like the Germans who followed the Nazis.

I've answered some of the questions.

A question that is never asked by these people is, "who stood to gain from people NOT locking down, NOT wearing masks and NOT social distancing?".

And those people were the capitalists.

So all this 'free-thinking and non-herd' behaviour boils down to keeping landlords in money.

From the link above

Did you:

1. Trust your government? - no I don't. The UK government has relaxed many restrictions (under pressure from capitalists), but I still follow many of them.

2. Believe their propaganda? - 

3. Fear what they told you to fear?

4. Dismiss what they told you to dismiss?

5. Hate whom they told you to hate?

6. Inhabit their manufactured illusion?

7. Delegate your thinking to fact-chokers?

8. Suppress your conscience?

9. Listen to your leaders and “experts”? - if you believe that someone with qualifications & an opinion is the same as someone with just an opinion - that's your problem.

10. Follow their rules?

11. Go with the herd? - You were vaccinated against many diseases and did not subsequently catch them because your parents followed the herd.

12. Fail to question? Questions work where you are genuinely searching for truth, they don't when you are just trying and failing to look clever.

13. Pass their obedience test?

14. Accept BigPharma into your heart? Those people who rejected BigPharma and ended up on a ventilator, were consuming Big Pharma products in their final hours and minutes.

15. Become an experimental subject? You are always an experimental subject but you may prefer to be in the control arm.

16. Relinquish your independence?

17. Give up your rights and freedoms?

18. Behave in a cowardly manner?

19. Remain silent in the face of corruption, injustice, bullying, discrimination, and democide?

20. Censor, cancel, block, and blame those who didn’t do any of the above?

Unfortunately,  saying that all the anti-lockdown, anti-mask, and anti-social masking are capitalists, and if you disagree with the above premises....you're keeping landlords in money...this is a false equivalence and false dichotomy. It's actually a fairly specious argument and claim to make.

There are many many physicians and other health-care workers  including major studies which have destroyed the pro-lockdown argument as non scientific, with evidence of physical, psychological,  immunological,  educational, social and religious harm.

Except for the Chinese Govt,  most of the world including major governmental and Non Govt. organizations dedicated to health and welfare have all agree the lockdowns were a mistake.

Quarantines yes have a purpose and have hundred of years and scientific evidence prove the benefit if used in the right public health circumstances, but all the major public health have all come down against generalized lockdowns.

Masks if , true closed system respirators, can prevent respiratory system spread disease. However,  cloth masks, surgical masks, and even N95 masks if not used after a properly administered mask fit test are not scientifically validated.

Do I as a physician, who works in Covid ICUs,  think there is a benefit to a mask ....yes,   in slightly reducing chance of a sick person infecting others because the infected person, if masked does reduce spread to others. However, non infected individuals wearing the commonly seen masks is not helpful and may be harmful to the wearer.

Social distancing may also have a scientifically credible effect, based on case reports of infection spread. However,  parallel case reports show the despite vigilant social distancing, Infections have still spread, especially in closed ventilation highly enclosed spaces.

I have a question as a point of information , Haji 2003, why only selectively answer the questions asked. You could have established more credibility in dismissing the article's premise on herd mentality and social conformity behaviors, by an actual point by point dissection. However, by selectively choosing only a minority of questions you felt comfortable to answer, it makes the independent observer think you didn't actually have enough arguments to dismiss the article as counter propaganda. But of course you are free to answer as you choose, that's of course your prerogative.

3 hours ago, justAnothermuslim said:

 

What’s is even more amazing than this is that: during the past 2 years, you just need to obey in order to be a good citizen. You may find the article “Are you a good german or a badass german?” thought-provoking in its’ own convoluted way.No question asked. p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }a:link { color: #000080; so-language: zxx; text-decoration: underline }

 

I think justAnothermuslim, has made some excellent points from the articles above and engaged with our SC community some very provacative and thought provoking suppositions . I am very happy she presented her sources, it allows independent people to critically look and think for themselves,  and to follow a few links to the links down some interesting internet rabbit holes.  I appreciate the links and thanks for furthering both the scientific discussions and the societal implications of conformity behavior with excellent references to the Milgram experiment and other psych studies on how ignorant and dangerous it is to follow the herd.  We as Shias are especially in tune with not following the unthinking herd, and our sect has made a reputation for staying closest to the most credible and legitimate sources for our Usul e deen and Furu e deen.

As to the medical questions posed to me by justAnothermuslim regarding theories of Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi videos, books and articles on Covid and Vaccines, I will start by correcting the smears, and they are groundless smears made against him. He is a medical doctor, with many years of training from major highly ranked German Medical Universities and medical institutions with years of specialized training in internal medicine,  immunology ( Especially antimicrobial immunology ) and microbiology ( which classically includes all infectious pathogens including viruses). His superspecialization and research is in immunobiology as it relates to viral infections. He has more than 30 years of experience in his field and is a world recognized subject matter expert. Unfortunately for him by making some very large unproven but highly persuasive claims regarding Covid , vaccination. However  his science based reasoning for these theories is well grounded and credible based on current medical knowledge. I can't go thru all of his theories, but the most legitimate and scientifically proven theories are; regarding the spike protein not being confined to muscle in which the vaccine is injected  is true. we have found the vaccine components and mRNA end product does travel and can be found in significant concentration in the ovaries, genitourinary system, heart, liver, spleen with the  most numerically significant concentration is in the lymph nodes.

Can vaccines cause  immune dysfunction and pathology.....unequivocally yes....is it very common...not so far, but could it become much more ...definitely.  Only time will tell how correct the above theories are or will remain.

There is antibody dependent enhancement

( ADE) Which is very very serious and dangerous.

There are cases of heart problems post vaccine, abnormal thrombosis and excess clotting, menstrual irregularities, Nerve related pathology and major problems with post vaccine. However, most side effects are now are still  a minority of vaccinated individuals. Have Covid vaccines cause significant reductions in live births in given populations in Taiwan,  parts of the UK, Germany,  South Korea and Israel? The data while very persuasive and suggests possible causation, the variables which affect the number of live births is too numerous to count,  so this theory remains unproven.

Confirmed issues are hyper coagulabilty, clotting disorders, myocarditis, localized adverse event related to site of injections,  and some neurological complications. In fact such complications resulted in vaccines from the past being withdrawn...like gardasil and swine flu vaccine with resulting horrible side effects.

The data about Covid Vaccines is being remains to be seen and is being systematically collected but, VAERS database and US military data do suggest higher than baseline adverse events ...but again unproven.

 

[Guest GuesT]

2 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Masks if , true closed system respirators, can prevent respiratory system spread disease. However,  cloth masks, surgical masks, and even N95 masks if not used after a properly administered mask fit test are not scientifically validated.

Any kind of mask is better than no mask. People who refused to wear a mask have been infected with the coronavirus and spread it to their family, neighbors, coworkers or others. 

2 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

However, non infected individuals wearing the commonly seen masks is not helpful and may be harmful to the wearer.

Harmful in what way? If you are referring to CO2 intoxication, that is a myth.

[Son of Placid]

COVID-19: Rethinking the Lockdown Groupthink

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7952324/

[Haji 2003]

11 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

I have a question as a point of information , Haji 2003, why only selectively answer the questions asked. You could have established more credibility in dismissing the article's premise on herd mentality and social conformity behaviors, by an actual point by point dissection.

I see and how am I supposed to answer this question:

Quote

Did you: Hate whom they told you to hate?

If anyone thinks that my refusal to engage with the above type of question reflects negatively on me ... well it tells me a lot about them and whether it's actually worth replying to them in the future.

[Hasani Samnani]

5 hours ago, Guest GuesT said:

Any kind of mask is better than no mask. People who refused to wear a mask have been infected with the coronavirus and spread it to their family, neighbors, coworkers or others. 

Harmful in what way? If you are referring to CO2 intoxication, that is a myth.

I was not referring to CO² intoxication,  which  is very improbable. There is scientific data that wearing  masks for long periods of impairs the natural flora in the oral cavity and can increase risk of dental and nasopharyngeal infections.

There is also significant evidence of higher bacterial counts on the skin and increased rates of impetigo,  skin allergies, and severe skin inflammation with long term mask wearing.

There is also evidence that when masks are continously worn around young children, those children show evidence of developmental delay in language acquisition and perception and even educational and psychological harm.

I am a not a rabid anti masker, but we need to examine risk benefit ratios before making completely non-scientific and unsupported statements " any kind of mask is better than no mask", that's just a hyper fear reaction, induced by constant barrage of media scare tactics ( done to increase viewership). We should always use the Aql , Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given us to make rational decisions.

I am in strong believer in the incredible design of the human body by the Creator. The human immune system, our natural defense against diseases like skin and specific mucosa linings, the natural flora environment in the gut or or other systems have been intricately designed to optimize health. When we impose unnatural behaviors we often induce ill health and disease.

[Hasani Samnani]

3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

 

I see and how am I supposed to answer this question:

 

If anyone thinks that my refusal to engage with the above type of question reflects negatively on me ... well it tells me a lot about them and whether it's actually worth replying to them in the future.

I apologize if I was overly harsh or overly critical in towards Haji2003. That was not my intention. I have been on Shiachat.com for more than decade and remember the olden days and some of the crazy characters and crazy avatars certain people used to have. I have observed Hajir2003 as highly respected contributor and now as forum administrator who takes to precious time out if their day to make the SC more valuable to us in the community at large. Also I have immense respect for your opinions and thoughts on various subjects. I think in certain specific topics regarding the recent Pandemic and the  responses to the Pandemic, I think we can agree to respectfully disagree and show our ikhlaq and elevation of our brotherhood.

What is also important for the non medical members and our obligates medical members to educate our brother and sisters towards health related matters and medical topics.

For example in the field of public health, it is well known that naturally occurring Pandemics have been occurring in humans since the beginning of time and human have  lived in close quarters as large groups. Bacterial Pandemics have been largely eliminated by the use of effective antibiotics. Now if you really want to fear a future outcome,  antibiotic resistance by bacteria is increasing and this is a very dangerous trend, since simple infections could become deadly. The non judicious and over prescribing of antibiotics has brought us to this unfortunate situation.

Now naturally occurring viral Pandemics again have come and gone, and we know that natural history of Pandemics is to eventually burn themselves out. The virus spreads so far and wide that eventually it is not able to infect more people in closed community, and peters out.  This seemed to occur with Omicron this time around, and has devolved from Pandemic to endemic status in many countries. However, again only time will tell,  and whether there is malign interference from possible nefarious actors. Which goes to excellent point  shared by Hajir2003 from the head of the Lancet Covid taskforce and the suspected  American biotech origin of Covid. 

Again may Allah bless and protect us and our families  inshallah. We should still take precautions and follow effective strategies to limit damage from this possible bioweapon, and protect our communities.

However, we need to be able to discuss both sides of the arguments to eventually either find consensus or at least follow science-based recommendations even when we don't agree with broader community. We as Shia know the incredible damage that can be done following the ignorant herd and the effects of slick politicians in perverting the original doctrine and practice of Islam.

[Haji 2003]

9 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

COVID-19: Rethinking the Lockdown Groupthink

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7952324/

Thanks. Interesting paper. Let's focus on the issue of health systems being overwhelmed. This is what the paper has to say [my reformatting to make it easier to read]:

Quote

Fourth is the objection that healthcare systems will be overwhelmed by uncontrolled spread (223, 224). This is a worrisome possibility, as health-care providers may be forced to make painful rationing decisions. If a healthcare system is overwhelmed, the effects would have to be extreme to make the benefit of lockdowns to save ICU capacity comparable to the long-term costs.

There are several ways to minimize this possibility, including

1. a focus on protecting those at high-risk (see below),
2. information dissemination to cause fast awareness of voluntary
3. sensible self-imposed use of handwashing and (in crowded areas)
4. masks (229, 230),
5. limiting very large gatherings,
6. and expanding critical care capacity when necessary. 

Overwhelming health systems

This was a key factor influencing policy at least in the UK and likely Western Europe. Overwhelming refers to hospitals receiving so many patients that they cannot cope.

In healthcare systems that are free at the point of delivery and where care is offered in terms of medical need (most of the time anyway), when a hospital system is overwhelmed, so matter how rich you are ...

• you join the queue ... 
• and you may not get treated whether it is covid, cardiac problems or cancer ... 
• the healthcare system effectively does not exist.

In an ageing western population that has terrifying political consequences.

Versus freedom

Like the Trump administration the British government (given its ideology) was generally against the policies used e.g. in China.

PM Johnson made a speech in Parliament that Britons would not accept curtailments of freedoms (lockdowns).

Keeping things open for as long as possible was the UK government's preference.

The only reason Britain went for lockdowns was due to pressure from the Chief Medical officers and representatives of the National Health Service who warned of the system being overwhelmed.

At that point all the other mitigation solutions that are offered in the paper had already been tried and failed.

[justAnothermuslim]

 

Nowadays, if there’s someone telling you what the truth is, is likely leading you astray, for one reason or another. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateVaccines/comments/vtp6x9/dr_peter_mccullough_has_turned_vaccine_skeptic/

 

Some key points from this 2 minute video:

• Dr. Peter McCullough previously never questioned vaccines (in his carreer, and personal life).

• Dr. McCullough previously assumed vaccines were safe and effective.

• Vaccines was not his area of research.

• Dr. McCullough has now come to question vaccines.

• Dr. McCullough has now started looking at the efficacy data of vaccines.

• For example: The vaccine efficacy for this year's flu shot is 16%, while you need at least 50% for it to be worthwhile.

• Dr. McCullough is dropping flu shots from his practice, and for himself.

• This was all said in a discussion with Dr. Paul Thomas ("Against The Wind" podcast, Episode 41 - July 6, 2022).

 

[justAnothermuslim]

On 7/8/2022 at 3:22 AM, justAnothermuslim said:

 

What’s is even more amazing than this is that: during the past 2 years, you just need to obey in order to be a good citizen. You may find the article “Are you a good german or a badass german?” thought-provoking in its’ own convoluted way.No question asked. p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 115%; background: transparent }a:link { color: #000080; so-language: zxx; text-decoration: underline }

 

 

"The past two years have been an extended episode of What Would You Do? So … what did you do?

Let’s check your answers. No cheating—you can’t go back and change them now".

 

The autor is just sharing her view.

You may publicize your answers but a debate with your own self is more fruitful.

 

[Hasani Samnani]

On 2/9/2022 at 10:33 AM, Guest get vaccinated said:

You have 20 times the risk of death from Covid-19 today, if you are unvaccinated. Please get vaccinated. 

we need to get this Chicken Little like behavior to stop, and stop making patently false statements,  not supported by any scientific evidence. 

The fear,  as the Pandemic taskforces admitted to hyping and and elevating, needs to be controlled. Otherwise out of misplaced fear people will make illogical decisions, like giving vaccine to children.  Many developed nations with strong public health systems, not influenced as much by big pharma, have made the decision not to recommend vaccines to children. Since we have seen based on immune system differences of adults and children, the risk benefit ratio for the vast majority of children is not favorable.

Now this will be different for sick children, hospitalized children,  those that are immuno compromised,  or with multiple co- morbidities. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[justAnothermuslim]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:51 PM, Hasani Samnani said:

Now this will be different for sick children, hospitalized children,  those that are immuno compromised,  or with multiple co- morbidities. 

 

 I know in people with healthy immune system, their B and T cells will react appropriately when those cells which have taken-up mRNA start expressing spike proteins on their surfaces.

How do the immunocompromised people (children included) benefit when their immune system cannot mount a strong response to the spike protein produced?

 

[justAnothermuslim]

 

How many times have we heard that COVID risks of developing myocarditis and pericarditis is far greater than the covid-19 mRNA vaccine’s side effects, in order to justify injection among 6-months to 11 yo?

Well, here’s a study from Israel that i think, could put the case to rest ...

 

https://www.mdpi.com/2077-0383/11/8/2219/htm

 

5. Conclusions

Our data suggest that there is no increase in the incidence of myocarditis and pericarditis in COVID-19 recovered patients compared to uninfected matched controls. Further longer-term studies will be needed to estimate the incidence of pericarditis and myocarditis in patients diagnosed with COVID-19.