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In the Name of God بسم الله

Viruses & Vaccinations


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Warning! Views expressed and sources provided here may be false, misleading, and may not reflect proper medical science. Please refer to a licensed medical professional concerning health related issues. 

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  • Advanced Member
On 7/13/2021 at 11:33 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Look at the level of infections now (e.g. in the UK) and the corresponding number of hospitalisations and compare the corresponding figures earlier this year.

Vaccines have stopped the spread of the disease.

Numbers are relative and those 700,000 unfortunates are a much smaller number than what would have happened if people had not been vaccinated.

I'm a bit confused here.

Earlier I read more fully vaccinated died from Delta variant is something to be expected from a vaccine that is effective but not yet perfect.

Now we have although more vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated people does nothing to undermine vaccine safety and effectiveness.

https://theconversation.com/most-covid-deaths-in-england-now-are-in-the-vaccinated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671

More vaccinated people are dying of COVID than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England (PHE). The report shows that 163 of the 257 people (63.4%) who died within 28 days of a positive COVID test between February 1 and June 21, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. At first glance, this may seem alarming, but it is exactly as would be expected.

.

.

The fact that more vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated people does nothing to undermine vaccine safety or effectiveness. In fact, it's exactly what we'd expect from the excellent vaccines, which have already saved tens of thousands of lives.

One netizen has this to say to the comment above him:

 

David McRae

Artemis Gause

Agree, more data and more precise explanation please – that was my immediate thought upon reading the essay. We didn’t need the attempted ‘ball bearings raining from the sky’ analogy; that just set my head spinning.

On the other hand , we have (I believe this may not mean anything since further study needs to be done to establish causality);

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/15/official-data-shows-twice-as-many-people-have-died-due-to-the-covid-19-vaccines-in-6-months-than-people-who-have-died-of-covid-19-in-15-months/

We can officially confirm that the number of people who have died due to the Covid vaccines within the past 6 months is almost double the amount of people who have died of Covid-19 since March 2020.

We are able to confirm this thanks to data published by Public Health England Scotland, alongside the data published by the MHRA on the Yellow Card Report scheme. However, the true picture is likely much worse due to the vast amount of recorded deaths due to the jabs occurring in Scotland. This is because Public Health England refuses to the publish the same data.

According to data published by the NHS on deaths related to Covid-19 up to the 10th June 2021 there have been 87,253 deaths within 28 days of a positive test. However, of these just 3,591 died of Covid-19, whereas the remainder all had pre-existing conditions ranging from heart disease to dementia.

The 83,662 who died with pre-existing conditions may have only been added to the Covid death statistics because they received a positive test result for the SARS-CoV-2 virus within 28 days of their death. A test result that will have come about due to hospitals essentially mandating tests are carried out before treatment is offered, despite this being against the law.

Do you think dailyexpose is a nutjob?

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8 hours ago, justAnothermuslim said:

According to data published by the NHS on deaths related to Covid-19 up to the 10th June 2021 there have been 87,253 deaths within 28 days of a positive test. However, of these just 3,591 died of Covid-19, whereas the remainder all had pre-existing conditions ranging from heart disease to dementia.

The 83,662 who died with pre-existing conditions may have only been added to the Covid death statistics because they received a positive test result for the SARS-CoV-2 virus within 28 days of their death. A test result that will have come about due to hospitals essentially mandating tests are carried out before treatment is offered, despite this being against the law.

Do you think dailyexpose is a nutjob?

 

Since the very beginning I have had doubts about people who try and distinguish between dying with covid vs. dying of covid.

The sort of people who'd do this were trying to say that covid is not so serious.

Far better in my opinion is to look at all-cause mortality statistics and compare that to previous years. The higher it is for current time periods, the more serious a problem covid is likely to be (unless there is another virus floating about that we do not know of).

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On 7/17/2021 at 3:52 PM, Haji 2003 said:

Since the very beginning I have had doubts about people who try and distinguish between dying with covid vs. dying of covid.

The sort of people who'd do this were trying to say that covid is not so serious.

I think I can see the logic behind the stand taken by dailyexpose and the likes. If you don’t make the distinction, the bloated number of deaths may drive the population at large crazy into a paralyzing fear.

With regard to the danger of covid19 ‘s threat, I believe:

Unlike the flu or viruses that caused previous pandemics, the Sars-CoV2 virus can lead to three distinct, lethal outcomes: viral damage to organs, cytokine storm, and micro-thrombosis (blood clots). If left untreated, one can die within 30 days of being infected, according to some epidemiologists.

Let’s forget about these 2 oddities - with vs of.

On 7/17/2021 at 3:52 PM, Haji 2003 said:

Far better in my opinion is to look at all-cause mortality statistics and compare that to previous years. The higher it is for current time periods, the more serious a problem covid is likely to be (unless there is another virus floating about that we do not know of).

Agree but any idea why such an alarming data is being published? Surely, something to be expected from an effective but imperfect vaccine or an analogy of ball bearings falling through a 2-layered sieve, sounds a bit thin.

Anyhow, I shouldn’t be alarmed with the data for the simple reason that I believe it has some thing to do with:

"This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated," CDC Director Dr. Rachelle Wallensky said Friday..

The vaccinated will blame the unvaccinated for their high number of infections and the unvaccinated will blame the vaccinated for their high number of deaths.

Reminds me of the Old Pharoah – divide and rule

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Since the Venn diagram of anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers and anti-social distancing people is just one circle, I thought I would put this here.

Firstly this is what happens when you don't have strict social distancing and mask wearing.

Secondly, as I've said previously there'll be plenty of people in Tunisia whose health system is so non-functioning that they'll happily buy ivermectin and no one will stop them.

But this just does not seem to be happening.

OTOH I have heard from relatives in Pakistani hospitals that treating patients with strong doses of steroids early on really seems to have helped. Sadly in India it also seems to have been responsible for the fungus.

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12 hours ago, slavelight said:

I find this crazy, if there's herd immunity why would we need proof.

Because we have not reached herd immunity and there is no prospect of getting there - with the arrival of variants.

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12 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Because we have not reached herd immunity and there is no prospect of getting there - with the arrival of variants.

Why did the new variants arrive? I heard from some sources mainstream news and social media that it could be due to vaccine which cause new variants to arrive. I can't verify this  atm though.

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Useful chart that helps address some misunderstandings.

Screenshot 2021-07-24 at 12.41.57.png

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On 7/17/2021 at 3:23 PM, Haji 2003 said:

 

I'm still seeing nurses quite often. The last one I spoke to said she was exhausted, mentality exhausted. Prior to that a nurse said " I am done with it. I don't follow it anymore. I'm not getting the vaccine, that is all." Haven't met a nurse yet that likes the idea of an experimental vaccine. Only one nurse I talked to was actually covid involved, but nurses talk. My doctor won't even talk about it. 

They have to unlearn what they know and watch people die. That sounds incredible. 
Imagine being in a position where you know of drugs that could lessen the severity and save some lives yet you're not even allowed to talk about them. Imagine having a patient on a medication that is known to lessen the severity, yet encourage them to get a shot anyway. 
In a real pandemic...Doctors would report all findings and the Health authorities would approve emergency use for anything that might be effective. Instead, the Health authorities are pushing back hard against anything that isn't one of four experimental vaccines. 
My daughter tested positive. They told her to go home and rest. "If it gets worse, go to the hospital". No mention on dealing with symptoms, what may help, what to avoid. Couldn't even say take an aspirin. My daughter questions everything.

During the HCQ crisis, the only data released to mainstream was how many people it killed in the trials. Of course that was the headline. The 27 page study of the Vets Admin proved that you can overdose critically ill seniors. France upped the dosage in their tests and killed more. Brazil followed France and killed 14 people in 9 days. Months later, President of Brazil catches covid and holds a box of HCQ up for all to see. Interesting contrast. 

Also in contrast, doctor in Nova Scotia who handed out HCQ (in recommended daily doses) to the 350 people in his nursing home announces they had no deaths...never made mainstream, was told to stop making videos. Doctor in the US, same sort of scenario gets sued by the children of the people he saved for using HCQ. Y'know...

Now it's Ivermectin but nobody is reporting any deaths. "You should not take it because it's not approved by the FDA." Well the FDA isn't even looking at it even though the NIH has studies proven it's efficacy.
The NIH has also published Vitamin D "will" lessen the severity, Ontario health Minister says it won't do anything for you. The Alberta Health Minister says fully vaccinated people will still be required to wear masks in some circumstances.

The PCR test has been "covid only" since 2020. 80 Calgary city bus drivers come down with "covid" (none died so no updates), No explanation as to how droplets got out of someone's infected mask, over the barrier, and in through their mask. The WHO bounced back and forth on the idea of covid being aerosol, finally decided not because too many people know better. The big problem lies in the WHO June 2011 publication of PCR tests and their ability to detect all viral infections.

Our Premier said "Open for summer!" (While seasonal flues are lowest), because we reached 70% jabs, and look how well they are working. Join the jab lottery and win one million in tax payers money, other prizes too! Now the uptick, just in time for the fall lockdown. He has continually said no to passports but proof of vaccination was required in some places at the Calgary Stampede. Not seeing a difference.

Australia just locked down, some areas they even locked in. They had their first covid death. In an interview it was brought the their health ministers attention that the person who died was vaccinated.

Who to listen to?

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12 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Now it's Ivermectin

You should check out Dr. Dmitry Kat's Twitter and especially his flush Niacin/Vitamin B3 protocol. He's not in favour of IVM due to potential neurotoxicity. But he appears extremely confident about his Vitamin B3 protocol for prophylaxis, cure, and even healing from vaccine issues. Haven't tried the protocol yet myself but it looks interesting. Better to maybe consult physician first. 

 

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On 7/30/2021 at 5:11 PM, Son of Placid said:

Now it's Ivermectin but nobody is reporting any deaths. "You should not take it because it's not approved by the FDA." Well the FDA isn't even looking at it even though the NIH has studies proven it's efficacy.

image.png

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Posted (edited)

Iceland and "Israel" who have vaccinated over 80% of their eligible populations have now reintroduced restrictions and have issued warnings about their healthcare systems potentially being overwhelmed due to the rapid rise in hospitalisations, which has made "Israel" (a vaccination success story, apparently) even contemplate another lockdown.

There are many factors to this, one of the claims is that the vaccine efficacy even against severe infection and death can reduce after 6 months, and another claim is that the new variants, in particular the Delta strain, are breaking through too many vaccinated individuals, in particular those who are already immunocompromised and/or the elderly and other at risk populations, and are causing hospitalisations.

This has caused people to rush to proposals where they are suggesting kids have to be vaccinated now - and urgently - and that booster programs must begin as soon as possible for the frontline workers and the at risk populations, and as I mentioned before, a return to restrictions (again) and now the new one - "vaccine passports".

My prediction is we will remain - as a global society, in most places - under restrictions (at the very least vaccine passports), and potentially lockdowns from time to time, as well as annual or half-yearly jabs being the norm, for a long time (which the CEO of Moderna admitted himself).

My personal opinion is that in all of this there is massive government overreach and disregard for basic liberties, a great deal of hysteria and panic driven by certain parts of the media, and an indifference to those who are suffering as a result of the "cures" to Covid under the guise of following the science.

Edited by Sumerian
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Posted (edited)

Iceland had even declared the pandemic over within its own borders at one stage, and lifted all restrictions. Some people even said they may have reached "herd immunity".

Now back again, with the restrictions. 

What is strange to me is that they returned to restrictions this early and gave warnings about their health infrastructure, despite the relatively low hospitalisation and death. 

People hear "cases" and panic, leading to government overreach, in the name of safety.

If this approach continues we will not return to pre-pandemic freedoms, which is what we were sold the vaccines would do.

Edited by Sumerian
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On 8/6/2021 at 2:55 PM, Haji 2003 said:

image.png

Just checked the European database for adverse events. Mainly France and Germany reported. Countries with less than 3 non serious events were not listed. Of course, no idea how many people in total used the drug with or without issue in 2021.

No idea in comparison to vaccines or other treatments. 
Reported events thus far in 2021, (as of Friday), a definite increase in events; 2702, 33 serious, 6 dead. The majority of cases are people taking unapproved and unknown doses of who knows what, in many cases along with other drugs. In one case a guy took a Darwinian cocktail of unknown doses of everything.  Interestingly enough, those that took it for covid cleared it up but had underlying issues that kept them in hospital. Oddly enough, Maybe I didn't catch the medical terminology. There's too many medical reports indicate liver problems for it to be missing. I'll check it out later. I'm surprised there is no mention of allergies. I'd be sure skin rashes are allergies, how serious the allergy could be, no idea, it would be pure speculation on my part. 

In 2020 there were 155 events, 43 classed as serious. I haven't checked them individually yet but noticed some long lists of disorders, some were single reactions like acne or skin rash. There was one "intentional overdose" but he recouvered.
2019, 63 serious events out of 204 reported, 2018 there were 70 serious events in 227. 2010 shows 181 but no distinction between serious and none serious. 
Breaking it down any further would take me all day.

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10 hours ago, Sumerian said:

There are many factors to this, one of the claims is that the vaccine efficacy even against severe infection and death can reduce after 6 months, and another claim is that the new variants, in particular the Delta strain,

What this tells us is that rich countries who believed that it would all be ok as long as their people were vaccinated were wrong.

Unless the whole world is vaccinated, there will be breeding grounds for variants and rich countries will have to stump up to pay for this otherwise their sophisticated economies will be kaput.

You kinda have to admire God for having created something that forces the rich to give to the poor to save themselves.

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2 hours ago, Sumerian said:
Iceland had even declared the pandemic over within its own borders at one stage, and lifted all restrictions. Some people even said they may have reached "herd immunity".

Now back again, with the restrictions. 

What is strange to me is that they returned to restrictions this early and gave warnings about their health infrastructure, despite the relatively low hospitalisation and death. 

People hear "cases" and panic, leading to government overreach, in the name of safety.

If this approach continues we will not return to pre-pandemic freedoms, which is what we were sold the vaccines would do.

There is no plan to go back to normal, only protests. Protests will be stopped. In Canada, Bill C10 and C36 were voted down this time. Basically full censorship bills. Full on attack of freedom of speech.  

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8 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Unless the whole world is vaccinated, there will be breeding grounds for variants and rich countries will have to stump up to pay for this otherwise their sophisticated economies will be kaput.

There is a direct correlation between the Lambda variant and the SinoVac vaccine from China. There are ongoing questions as to the possibility the Delta variant , started in India, was caused by the AZ vac.
I can't find anything yet that suggests in medical terms that the unvaccinated are responsible for any variants. If you have credible info I'd like to see it.

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1 hour ago, Son of Placid said:

Basically full censorship bills. Full on attack of freedom of speech.

I think people in the West will realise that they were sold a pup when it came to 'freedom' etc.

It was only ever a happy coincidence of history, a different environment e.g. a global pandemic could easily take it away. Totalitarian states may well cope better in this world.

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6 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

What this tells us is that rich countries who believed that it would all be ok as long as their people were vaccinated were wrong.

Unless the whole world is vaccinated, there will be breeding grounds for variants and rich countries will have to stump up to pay for this otherwise their sophisticated economies will be kaput.

You kinda have to admire God for having created something that forces the rich to give to the poor to save themselves.

Even if the whole world was vaccinated from today, there is no guarantee that countries (especially ones with a hysterical media) will accept the hospitalisations and deaths that come with opening up society only from the mutations that we currently have, let alone any future strains.

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14 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

There are ongoing questions as to the possibility the Delta variant , started in India, was caused by the AZ vac.

Please tell me you are rolling on the floor laughing as you type the above.

 

14 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I can't find anything yet that suggests in medical terms that the unvaccinated are responsible for any variants. If you have credible info I'd like to see it.

Well assuming that it was not vaccines that caused Delta - then yes Delta came out of a largely unvaccinated India, which has since then sharply reduced international supplies of vaccines to cater for its own people.

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7 hours ago, Sumerian said:

countries (especially ones with a hysterical media) will accept the hospitalisations and deaths that come with opening up society

Countries like the UK are rightly hysterical about hospitalisations because the social contract the government has with the people is that if you are ill, you will be seen to.

But if hospitals are filled with covid patients that can't happen. At least as far as the UK is concerned it has always been about hospital capacity.

Open up when hospitals have empty beds and lockdown when they don't with the priority on trying to keep open as long as possible.

There's less hysteria in developing countries because most people are resigned to not receiving healthcare or if they are rich enough making their own provisions.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Countries like the UK are rightly hysterical about hospitalisations because the social contract the government has with the people is that if you are ill, you will be seen to.

But if hospitals are filled with covid patients that can't happen. At least as far as the UK is concerned it has always been about hospital capacity.

Open up when hospitals have empty beds and lockdown when they don't with the priority on trying to keep open as long as possible.

There's less hysteria in developing countries because most people are resigned to not receiving healthcare or if they are rich enough making their own provisions.

Well if hospitalisations do increase to the point where the hospital system is overstressed, even after the entire population has been vaccinated, that kind of makes the hype around the greatness of these vaccines a little funny.

Yes they saved lives, but if we keep locking down after we have been vaccinated, then these vaccines have obviously failed to make society viable again for reopening, which means a miserable society for the younger less effected populations and a crushing blow to the economy and people's livelihoods.

To me that means they failed, and the media and certain politicians will have then lied when they claimed these vaccines will end the locking down of societies, furthermore the general public will eventually grow fatigued of these restrictions, as they will feel they have done their part (locking down, getting vaccinated, tested, social distancing etc...).

Now leaving the UK aside as the current right-wing government seems to be looking for a way out of this pandemic, and is confident in its hospital system coping with a potential increase in hospitalisations, there are other countries that will panic straight away, for example the nearly fully vaccinated Iceland, and plunge the country into yet another set of restrictions despite very little reports of serious hospitalisations or deaths. 

This also paints a picture of where Western societies are also currently at, the Left will be pro-government measures, while the Right will be against, for many months, and potentially years, to come. All other issues will become secondary.

Edited by Sumerian
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Posted (edited)

Meanwhile in Sweden;

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-mortality-idUSKBN2BG1R9

Not much of a difference between its mortality rate between 2020 and 2019, making it hard to justify a lockdown in its own country.

I know this isn't the same for other countries that experienced a high death rate, but maybe the question of immunity through natural infection shouldn't have been dismissed as easily as it was.

Sweden is also vaccinating which is good, and gives it an even greater layer of protection than it previously had, making it less likely to implement restrictions.

Edited by Sumerian
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Posted (edited)

It seems I may have judged Iceland a little too quickly, although it does seem strange to implement restrictions if the Chief Epidemiologist is claiming this now;

Post-vaccination herd immunity in Iceland must be achieved by virus transmission –

https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/covid-19/herd-immunity-must-be-achieved-by-transmission-of-the-virus-says-icelands-epidemiologist/

It seems they have given thought to following the Swedish model, but protecting the vulnerable at the same time (booster shots).

Edited by Sumerian
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16 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Please tell me you are rolling on the floor laughing as you type the above.

 

Well assuming that it was not vaccines that caused Delta - then yes Delta came out of a largely unvaccinated India, which has since then sharply reduced international supplies of vaccines to cater for its own people.

There was a study, I can't find it now. Not the first time I lost stuff, probably not the last.
Looks like no extra study on vaccines these days. Milken institute went from tracking 262 vaccines to zero. 

Today I see a headline about India dropping cases some 97% with Ivermectin, then I read the "Fact checkers" story of absolutely no evidence. Then I find this;

https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LEGAL-NOTICE-FOR-CONTEMPT_JUNE-13-2021.pdf

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On 7/16/2021 at 5:43 PM, justAnothermuslim said:

I'm a bit confused here.

Earlier I read more fully vaccinated died from Delta variant is something to be expected from a vaccine that is effective but not yet perfect.

Now we have although more vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated people does nothing to undermine vaccine safety and effectiveness.

https://theconversation.com/most-covid-deaths-in-england-now-are-in-the-vaccinated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671

More vaccinated people are dying of COVID than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England (PHE). The report shows that 163 of the 257 people (63.4%) who died within 28 days of a positive COVID test between February 1 and June 21, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. At first glance, this may seem alarming, but it is exactly as would be expected.

.

.

The fact that more vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated people does nothing to undermine vaccine safety or effectiveness. In fact, it's exactly what we'd expect from the excellent vaccines, which have already saved tens of thousands of lives.

One netizen has this to say to the comment above him:

 

David McRae

Artemis Gause

Agree, more data and more precise explanation please – that was my immediate thought upon reading the essay. We didn’t need the attempted ‘ball bearings raining from the sky’ analogy; that just set my head spinning.

On the other hand , we have (I believe this may not mean anything since further study needs to be done to establish causality);

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/15/official-data-shows-twice-as-many-people-have-died-due-to-the-covid-19-vaccines-in-6-months-than-people-who-have-died-of-covid-19-in-15-months/

We can officially confirm that the number of people who have died due to the Covid vaccines within the past 6 months is almost double the amount of people who have died of Covid-19 since March 2020.

We are able to confirm this thanks to data published by Public Health England Scotland, alongside the data published by the MHRA on the Yellow Card Report scheme. However, the true picture is likely much worse due to the vast amount of recorded deaths due to the jabs occurring in Scotland. This is because Public Health England refuses to the publish the same data.

According to data published by the NHS on deaths related to Covid-19 up to the 10th June 2021 there have been 87,253 deaths within 28 days of a positive test. However, of these just 3,591 died of Covid-19, whereas the remainder all had pre-existing conditions ranging from heart disease to dementia.

The 83,662 who died with pre-existing conditions may have only been added to the Covid death statistics because they received a positive test result for the SARS-CoV-2 virus within 28 days of their death. A test result that will have come about due to hospitals essentially mandating tests are carried out before treatment is offered, despite this being against the law.

Do you think dailyexpose is a nutjob?

I'm confused on a daily basis. 
I see a headline, I read the report. I copy/paste key words to see if there are other articles of the same of differing nature if they don't site sources. If I can take it to a study or the raw data it almost never agrees with the headline. All articles for or against...whatever, are exaggerated. There is no middle ground.

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On 8/1/2021 at 3:38 PM, Haji 2003 said:

The good pastor tells his congregation not to wear masks and not to get vaccinated. Note some swearing followed by Amen.

 

How lost and deluded can these people be? This is exactly happens when people start mixing politics and religion together. I know it's an unpopular  opinion here, but look how removed the man is from the message of the Scriptures. Imagine humanizing Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by ascribing your political beliefs to Him. 

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