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Are we allowed to do Tawassul to Angels? Is that even possible. I know that a lot of "spiritual" people in the west call upon Archangels like Michael (Mikail) and Gabriel (Jibril) and so on and so on. 

Can we do this in Islam too? Can we ask for help from Angels with the permission of Allah (bi idhni Allah)? 

Only serious answers please. Thank you.

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Salam Alaykum

One of the main quranic verses to prove the validity of tawassul is the verse 35 of Surah Al-Mai'da: 

"قال الله تعالی: "یاایها الذین اتقوا الله و ابتغوا الیه الوسیله

"O, you who believe! fear Allah and seek the means of getting near to Him". 

Regarding this verse we may do tawassul to a person who is respectable and has a great position to Allah: and this way you may have seen some people even do tawassul to some great scholars. And since angles have a high position (especially some of them like Gabriel, Micheal ) to Allah, there would be no problem as to gain nearness to Allah through them.

Besides there is also a verse that proves their high status of doing Shafa'at on the day of Judgement: 

وَ كَمْ مِنْ مَلَكٍ فِي السَّماواتِ لا تُغْني‏ شَفاعَتُهُمْ شَيْئاً إِلاَّ مِنْ بَعْدِ أَنْ يَأْذَنَ اللَّهُ لِمَنْ يَشاءُ وَ يَرْضى‏

How many an angel there is in the heavens whose intercession is of no avail in any way except after Allah grants permission to whomever He wishes and approves of!(53/ verse26)

Allamah Tabatabaee says in his exegesis, Tafseer Al-mizan: this verse to some extent proves the statues of shafa'at for angles and that is up to Allah's approval and His wishes.

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On 3/17/2020 at 9:49 PM, ahlulbaytkr said:

Are we allowed to do Tawassul to Angels? Is that even possible. I know that a lot of "spiritual" people in the west call upon Archangels like Michael (Mikail) and Gabriel (Jibril) and so on and so on. 

Can we do this in Islam too? Can we ask for help from Angels with the permission of Allah (bi idhni Allah)? 

Only serious answers please. Thank you.

Tawasul is a means to reach a destination. Tawasul to Allah is a means to reach closeness to Allah. According to the Qur'an and the way of the Prophet, the way to God in prayers and dua is strictly directly to Him. We may not partner anyone with Him in that. 

Wasila can be good deeds, fasting, prayer to God, studying, thinking, contemplating, helping others, being kind, etc.

Edited by 313 Seeker
little grammar glitch! sorry, please forgive me
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1 hour ago, mostafaa said:

verse 35 of Surah Al-Mai'da: 

35. O believers! Protect yourselves from Allah; ask for a cause to enable 
your closeness to Him
and strive with determination on His path so that 
you may attain emancipation.

 

Edited by Shahrukh K
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7 minutes ago, Shahrukh K said:

35. O believers! Protect yourselves from Allah; ask for a cause to enable 
your closeness to Him
and strive with determination on His path so that 
you may attain emancipation.

 

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ - 5:35

 

Your translation is far from accurate.

 

It says ibtighu alayh waseela. Check all translations and research those three words, and you will see it means rather "seek a wasilah to Him", or seek a means of nearness to Him. 


There is no word that can be interpreted as "ask for a cause", which would be "dua"

 

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Just now, mostafaa said:

How many an angel there is in the heavens whose intercession is of no avail in any way except after Allah grants permission to whomever He wishes and approves of!(53/ verse26)

Allamah Tabatabaee says in his exegesis, Tafseer Al-mizan: this verse to some extent proves the statues of shafa'at for angles and that is up to Allah's approval and His wishes.

On a side note, I find it funny that I come from a tradition that is often considered Shirk. Which one doesn't matter, but one that worship the creator along with other heavenly beings. These heavenly beings are nothing in them selves and only do the will of the creator. So praying to them is a bit like tawassul seeking their intercession to reach the creator. I always worshiped the creator and thought it was a detour to seek the intercession of other heavenly beings. I did try, but I never felt it necessary because I had this personal relationship with the creator. One that eventually took me to Islam when he revealed him self as Allah. So when I hear Muslims talk about tawassul I think; is this really necessary? Personally I would like to be on the safe side and not inadvertently do something that is Shirk. I am not saying that it is. When these scholars say that it isn't Shirk it probably isn't, but I just thought it is funny.

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7 minutes ago, Revert1963 said:

On a side note, I find it funny that I come from a tradition that is often considered Shirk. Which one doesn't matter, but one that worship the creator along with other heavenly beings. These heavenly beings are nothing in them selves and only do the will of the creator. So praying to them is a bit like tawassul seeking their intercession to reach the creator. I always worshiped the creator and thought it was a detour to seek the intercession of other heavenly beings. I did try, but I never felt it necessary because I had this personal relationship with the creator. One that eventually took me to Islam when he revealed him self as Allah. So when I hear Muslims talk about tawassul I think; is this really necessary? Personally I would like to be on the safe side and not inadvertently do something that is Shirk. I am not saying that it is. When these scholars say that it isn't Shirk it probably isn't, but I just thought it is funny.

I feel exactly the same. It might surprise you to find that the global phenomenon among orthodox Sunnis (not just the Sufi types) and Shias in doing this to varying degrees was not really common until much later.

You see, the early Shias and the classical scholars in general, did not know of phrases you hear like 'Ya Ali Madad' , which is something that came from Ismailis. You find that great men like Shaykh al-Kulayni in his al-Kafi dedicates an enormous section to Dua, and barring a weak Dua, they are almost always directly to Allah. If it is ever with tawassul, it is 'by right of', but that intimate beg for help is almost always between Allah and the created. 

Even the children of the Imams, when ill, would ask their fathers for help, who in turn would give them a Dua to make to Allah.  The whole idea that we can't ask Allah directly, or it is better to take another route, or that Allah won't answer your prayers, but Hadrath Abbas (عليه السلام) won't close his doors on you because he is the door to all wishes is not true. Even the term 'Bab ul-Hawaai'j' itself didn't come until centuries after. Men long after invented, culture found its way into religion, things stuck. 

That's why in the advent of the coronavirus, you find some groups of Shias unable to comprehend how the same shrines they were led into believing cures the sick, the paralysed, the place where they went to when they lost all hope, the holiest places on Earth for some, whose very touch itself was considered a cure, somehow couldn't project them from a virus, no, but worse, make it worse for them. Some people might lose faith, why? Inflated lies are spread and believed, and when they don't hold, they question everything.

If anyone shows me a single reliable tradition where the Imams or their followers ever told us to call on them directly for our needs, I will today myself conform. If they can not (and they will never be able to) then sufficient for me is Allah, upon whom every thing in this universe relies on. 

Don't deny me the opportunity to build an intimate, powerful bond crying to my creator and pleading to him, knowing he is the master of all created things. He understands me better than anyone ever could, and I find peace in ultimately relying on him, after fulfilling worldly duties. Don't deny me this, and ask me to call on mortals who themselves told me to plead to Allah, told me he was the best to plead to, and gave me the most beautiful and powerful of supplications.

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9 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

Tawasul is a means to reach a destination. Tawasul to Allah is a means to reach closeness to Allah. According to the Qur'an and the way of the Prophet, the way to God in prayers and dua is strictly directly to Him. We may not partner anyone with Him in that. 

Wasila can be good deeds, fasting, prayer to God, studying, thinking, contemplating, helping others, being kind, etc.

 

11 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

35. O believers! Protect yourselves from Allah; ask for a cause to enable 
your closeness to Him
and strive with determination on His path so that 
you may attain emancipation.

 

Salam Alaykum

The question is why we should limit the meaning of "Vasilah" only to good deeds. It has a broad sense that includes seeking nearness to God through highly respectable people.

Besides the majority of exegetes including Shia interpreters as well as many of Sunni Scholars have explained the verse in a broad sense of the word. For instance, Aloosi, a great exegete of Sunnis says in his Tafseer -Rooh Al-Ma'ani- in this verse: there is no doubt that to ask others to do supplications for you is permitted and he narrates some stories of the Prophet proving this fact. For example he narrates that the Prophet ask others to beg God to forgive the Prophet (طلب الاستغفار من الله) and he also narrates other stories in this regard. But he says we are only allowed to do tawassul through alive people. (Rooh Al-Ma'ani, Vol 3, page 294) (Even though there is a big question that regarding the matter of "shirk" there should be no difference between doing tawassul to alive people as well as dead ones. If tawassul is "shirk" it would be invalid to do tawassul even to alive people.)

In addition, reasons to prove the validity of Tawassul is not exclusive to above mentioned verse. There are many reasons from Qur'an and Ahadith that prove the validity of Tawassul.

But since it has been discussed on shiachat.com before, I think it would be better to check them first and then discuss the matter further.

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235009883-tawassul-or-shirk/
https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235012934-tawassul/

9 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

On a side note, I find it funny that I come from a tradition that is often considered Shirk. Which one doesn't matter, but one that worship the creator along with other heavenly beings. These heavenly beings are nothing in them selves and only do the will of the creator. So praying to them is a bit like tawassul seeking their intercession to reach the creator. I always worshiped the creator and thought it was a detour to seek the intercession of other heavenly beings. I did try, but I never felt it necessary because I had this personal relationship with the creator. One that eventually took me to Islam when he revealed him self as Allah. So when I hear Muslims talk about tawassul I think; is this really necessary? Personally I would like to be on the safe side and not inadvertently do something that is Shirk. I am not saying that it is. When these scholars say that it isn't Shirk it probably isn't, but I just thought it is funny.

Surely we don't prove our fundamental beliefs based on one tradition that could be fabricated.

And surely after we prove our beliefs based on certain reasons we are not afraid of disagreements.

Tawassul doesn't mean to worship the creator along with other heavenly beings. For sure these heavenly beings are nothing in themselves. Tawassul is to resort to holy means as to get nearness and closeness to Allah. And that is something naturally we do in our daily life and a lot of hadiths have been narrated from the Prophet and his companions doing the same.

Check the following link. It's an informative and useful article about tawassul.  wikishia.net

 

Any way, the main question in this thread was about the validity of tawassul to angles.:)

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2 minutes ago, mostafaa said:

There are many reasons from Qur'an and Ahadith that prove the validity of Tawassul.

waslaam,

 

for the purpose of easy discussion I'll zero into this. You mean validity of praying to others than Allah right? Because tawasul means a means to ..

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48 minutes ago, 313 Seeker said:

for the purpose of easy discussion I'll zero into this. You mean validity of praying to others than Allah right? Because tawasul means a means to ..

I mean the means that can be used to gain nearness to God. Therefore, the typical meaning of tawassul is to use "wasilat" to obtain nearness to God.

What do you mean by praying to others than Allah?

Edited by mostafaa
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3 minutes ago, mostafaa said:

I mean the means that can be used to gain nearness to God. Therefore, the typical meaning of tawassul is to use "wasilat" to obtain nearness to God.

What do you mean by praying others then Allah?

I mean the idea of making dua to others than Allah

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12 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ - 5:35

 

Your translation is far from accurate.

 

It says ibtighu alayh waseela. Check all translations and research those three words, and you will see it means rather "seek a wasilah to Him", or seek a means of nearness to Him. 


There is no word that can be interpreted as "ask for a cause", which would be "dua"

 

Agree.

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12 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

35. O believers! Protect yourselves from Allah; ask for a cause to enable 
your closeness to Him
and strive with determination on His path so that 
you may attain emancipation.

 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says in Qur'an:

Say, "I do not ask of you for it any payment - only that whoever wills might take to his Lord a way." 25:57

Say, "I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near kinship" 42:23

Say, "If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." 3:31

---

Love Prophet's family is also Love of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and love of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is following The Prophet and his Family. Thus The Prophet and His family are the Lord's way.

Edited by Abu Nur
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11 hours ago, Guest honesty said:

That's why in the advent of the coronavirus, you find some groups of Shias unable to comprehend how the same shrines they were led into believing cures the sick, the paralysed, the place where they went to when they lost all hope, the holiest places on Earth for some, whose very touch itself was considered a cure, somehow couldn't project them from a virus, no, but worse, make it worse for them. Some people might lose faith, why? Inflated lies are spread and believed, and when they don't hold, they question everything.

I can see where you are going with this. It just doesn't hold. Holy places has a value as a place to contemplate and focus on Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). If it wasn't so, the Hajj would be void. To non-Muslims it looks like that Muslims are worshiping the Kaaba when circling it and kissing a black stone. At least as a confined space where "God lives."  This is of cause not so because Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) I not confined. In principle the Qibla could be in any direction because God is everywhere without confines and undivided. The Kaaba is a holy place that serves as a common point of reference for Muslims in prayer. The Kaaba it self has no more protection against corona virus that the shrines of Imam Reza or Fatima Masumeh. There is a saying ascribed to the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that goes: "Tie your camel and trust in God." In other words take your precautions also against viruses and then put your trust in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This is true whether you seek him directly or through intercession.

 

1 hour ago, mostafaa said:

Tawassul doesn't mean to worship the creator along with other heavenly beings. For sure these heavenly beings are nothing in themselves. Tawassul is to resort to holy means as to get nearness and closeness to Allah. And that is something naturally we do in our daily life and a lot of hadiths have been narrated from the Prophet and his companions doing the same.

I am aware of the difference between worship and intercession. I do accept the arguments in the link you put forward and I don't think that Ibn Taymiyya's counterarguments hold. But I do think that you have to be aware what you are doing. I think it is one of the things that has in a historical sense corrupted the message that has been send to Prophets before Mohammed(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). It started with intercession and then all of a sudden people started to perceive angles and holy persons to be gods equal to the creator. I have read that the Alawite sect who is an offshoot of Shia has reached a point where they worship Imam Ali as a God. I am not sure if all Alawites would agree with that, but Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has apparently found it necessary to make a Fatwa stating that it is Shirk if they indeed has this belief. So even Muslims has to be aware of what they are doing. And as I said I personally don't feel the need for any intercession.
 

1 hour ago, mostafaa said:

Any way, the main question in this thread was about the validity of tawassul to angles.:)

Which I think makes sense. After all Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) did use the angle Jibril as an intermediary when transmitting the Qur'an to the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Edited by Revert1963
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On 3/17/2020 at 11:19 PM, ahlulbaytkr said:

Are we allowed to do Tawassul to Angels? Is that even possible. I know that a lot of "spiritual" people in the west call upon Archangels like Michael (Mikail) and Gabriel (Jibril) and so on and so on. 

Can we do this in Islam too? Can we ask for help from Angels with the permission of Allah (bi idhni Allah)? 

Only serious answers please. Thank you.

Salam it’s not allowed because our Imams have higher position than them that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) in Miraj reached to place that trustful archangel Gabriel (Jibril) couldn’t reach to that place that our Imams are in second position after Prophet Muhammad (pbu) but their status is higher than trustful archangel Gabriel (Jibril) anyway in Dua books like like Sahifa Sajadia angels praised in best way  but it’s not intercession to them .

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3 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Has anyone ever found intercession to produce better results, compared to asking directly?

Quote

In my marja's view using tawassul isn't directly asking an Imam or Prophet for something nor is asking them something recommended, rather it's preferred to do so by saying for example, "Oh Allah give me X for the sake of your Prophet (sawa)", for example.

Quote

I think you're thinking of this too simplistically. It's not a math equation where X is always better or more efficient than Y. Duas being answered can often tie in a lot with sincerity, need, obedience, repenting from previous wrong doings, and what is better for you right now.

Maybe you need to have a closer relationship with Allah directly and that is missing in your 'ibadah. And maybe you need to have greater respect or love to those who bring you His message, and that's what you need to work on. Which supplication gets answered might even be affected by that.

Sometimes it might be that a personal connection, a direct supplication is better for you, and sometimes also showing love for the awliya may be the better path. Just like sometimes you might do a extra nafl prayer for reward, sometimes a recommended fast, sometimes for in charity, without neglecting a form of good deed. Each one is unique and brings it's own benefits to yourself and spiritual growth. By neglecting extra salat or sadaqah entirely, you don't yourself any good.

Hope this helps!

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1 hour ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:
Hope this helps!

Thanks bro but I was more interested in knowing practical data / statistics of the two scenarios. Or at least the first hand experiences of people on here.

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20 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

I am aware of the difference between worship and intercession. I do accept the arguments in the link you put forward and I don't think that Ibn Taymiyya's counterarguments hold. But I do think that you have to be aware what you are doing. I think it is one of the things that has in a historical sense corrupted the message that has been send to Prophets before Mohammed(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). It started with intercession and then all of a sudden people started to perceive angles and holy persons to be gods equal to the creator. I have read that the Alawite sect who is an offshoot of Shia has reached a point where they worship Imam Ali as a God. I am not sure if all Alawites would agree with that, but Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has apparently found it necessary to make a Fatwa stating that it is Shirk if they indeed has this belief. So even Muslims has to be aware of what they are doing. And as I said I personally don't feel the need for any intercession.

Losing the right way is to believe less or more in reality. Like the ones who believe in mortal beings as to be God, have gone astray; the same way, those who deny Prophet's position and his ability, have gone astray.

For example: Concerning Prophet Jesus and his ability of healing the blind and reviving the dead, two groups of people have gone astray: 

1.those who believed in him as to be God.

2. those who denied his ability of doing so.

Do you think this is justified for a person living at that time to refuse to ask the Prophet to heal -for example- his mother out of fear of polytheism???!!! While your mother is really suffering from that problem, and you know the Prophet could heal her, would you stop referring to him saying that I only ask God, not God's Prophet (while you know he is an intermediary) ???!!!!!!

Edited by mostafaa
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14 hours ago, The Green Knight said:

Thanks bro but I was more interested in knowing practical data / statistics of the two scenarios. Or at least the first hand experiences of people on here.

You're welcome. Though, may I say that the point isn't in maximizing utility. That being said, I do recall threads, videos, etc., where people mentioned their first hand experiences of tawassul working better, but I have no clue how to find them.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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On 3/20/2020 at 1:05 PM, Abu Nur said:

Love Prophet's family is also Love of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and love of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is following The Prophet and his Family. Thus The Prophet and His family are the Lord's way.

The aim of our life should be to get nearer to Allah, As we try to get closer to Allah automatically our love for Ahlebayt will increase, but the reverse is not true means our love for Ahlebayt will not bring us closer to Allah.

Like when you put an iron rod into the fire, its temperature increases and it will become red, but the reverse is not true means if you paint the iron rod red it will not become hot. 

A person's love for ahlebait is only an indication that he is doing right efforts to get closer to Allah

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The aim of our life should be to get nearer to Allah, As we try to get closer to Allah automatically our love for Ahlebayt will increase, but the reverse is not true means our love for Ahlebayt will not bring us closer to Allah.

You are right, The Love of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the essential and should lead to love of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) yes. I read some stories how some Hindus love Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), then I always wonder why they never convert to Islam and still insist in their religion.

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21 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

The aim of our life should be to get nearer to Allah, As we try to get closer to Allah automatically our love for Ahlebayt will increase, but the reverse is not true means our love for Ahlebayt will not bring us closer to Allah.

Like when you put an iron rod into the fire, its temperature increases and it will become red, but the reverse is not true means if you paint the iron rod red it will not become hot. 

A person's love for ahlebait is only an indication that he is doing right efforts to get closer to Allah

 

20 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

You are right, The Love of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the essential and should lead to love of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) yes. I read some stories how some Hindus love Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), then I always wonder why they never convert to Islam and still insist in their religion.

Why do you think that the love of Ahl Al-bayt could not bring us closer to Allah?!!! Love of Ahl Al-bayt is heart's good deed and like other good deeds that bring us closer to Allah, this good deed would do the same.

In addition, there are numerous hadiths in this regard but as an example the following quotation is a part of Ziarat Ashura:

"يَا أَبَا عَبْدِ اللّٰهِ، إِنِّي أَتَقَرَّبُ إِلىٰ اللّٰهِ، وَإِلىٰ رَسُولِهِ، وَإِلىٰ أَمِيرِ الْـمُؤْمِنِينَ، وَإِلىٰ فَاطِمَةَ، وَإِلىٰ الْـحَسَنِ، وَإِلَيْكَ بِـمُوَالاَتِكَ"

"O’ Aba ‘Abdillah! Surely I seek closeness to Allah and to His Messenger and to the Commander of the Faithful and to Fatimah and to Hasan and to you through love of you."

and the following is a hadith narrated in both Shia and Sunni Books:

. عَنِ اَلنَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ قَالَ: حُبُّ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ يَوْماً خَيْرٌ مِنْ عِبَادَةِ سَنَةٍ وَ مَنْ مَاتَ عَلَيْهِ دَخَلَ اَلْجَنَّةَ 

it is narrated from the Prophet Muhammad () that: "The love of Muhammad's household is better than worship of one year and whoever dies with their love will enter the heaven. (Bihar Al-Anvar Vol 27, page 104)

Edited by mostafaa
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On 3/18/2020 at 12:49 AM, ahlulbaytkr said:

Are we allowed to do Tawassul to Angels?

Your question makes no sense to me.Why would one approach anyone lesser than himself?

Humans can rise higher than angels. Among the humans Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) are closest to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). I would either ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) directly or of I have to choose a mean why would I go through any other path than Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام)??? 

 

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@mostafaa I think he means to say that we are not 'cultists'. Some people try to use their love of Ahlul-Bayt (عليه السلام) [perhaps unintentionally] as a sufficient means of bypassing dhikrullah, focused salat, and ironically salawat too, etc., in seeking closeness to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Simply believing in the high status of the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and loving them does not make you closer to God. E.g. Shias who spend their time defending the true message of Rasulullah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Ahlul-Bayt (عليه السلام) online, yet hypocritically they themselves aren't following this message. These people are not living God-centric, God-conscious lives, and they are sinning. So what if they happen to be good at separating Creator from creation, when they aren't willing to submit to the Creator. I have been guilty of this at times, astaghfirullah. 

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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1 hour ago, mostafaa said:

 

Why do you think that the love of Ahl Al-bayt could not bring us closer to Allah?!!! Love of Ahl Al-bayt is heart's good deed and like other good deeds that bring us closer to Allah, this good deed would do the same.

In addition, there are numerous hadiths in this regard but as an example the following quotation is a part of Ziarat Ashura:

"يَا أَبَا عَبْدِ اللّٰهِ، إِنِّي أَتَقَرَّبُ إِلىٰ اللّٰهِ، وَإِلىٰ رَسُولِهِ، وَإِلىٰ أَمِيرِ الْـمُؤْمِنِينَ، وَإِلىٰ فَاطِمَةَ، وَإِلىٰ الْـحَسَنِ، وَإِلَيْكَ بِـمُوَالاَتِكَ"

"O’ Aba ‘Abdillah! Surely I seek closeness to Allah and to His Messenger and to the Commander of the Faithful and to Fatimah and to Hasan and to you through love of you."

and the following is a hadith narrated in both Shia and Sunni Books:

. عَنِ اَلنَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اَللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَ آلِهِ قَالَ: حُبُّ آلِ مُحَمَّدٍ يَوْماً خَيْرٌ مِنْ عِبَادَةِ سَنَةٍ وَ مَنْ مَاتَ عَلَيْهِ دَخَلَ اَلْجَنَّةَ 

it is narrated from the Prophet Muhammad () that: "The love of Muhammad's household is better than worship of one year and whoever dies with their love will enter the heaven. (Bihar Al-Anvar Vol 27, page 104)

I did not say that it does not bring close to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Prophet and his family leads to straight path. 

Such a people in hadith love Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and they want to seek more nearness for loving Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). 

Edited by Abu Nur
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1. Why use intercession when you can ask directly

2. and when it is not the sunnah of Prophets and Imams?

3. And since it is not obligatory nor known to produce better results

4. It is a doorway to polytheism and

5. in the very least it is a perfectly avoidable unnecessary complication.

6. The best things in this world, in fact this whole world including things like "caliphate over Muslims" are absolutely worthless and rubbish in the eyes of Allah and masoomeen, and meanwhile we the people in our prayers we beg Allah for these things and use intermediaries in an attempt to change His mind and grant them to us. It does not make sense. Allah reserves the real good stuff, the rewards of afterlife exclusively for the momineen and the things of this world including power and authority He gives to the munafiqin in abundance (Kitab Sulaym). So if someone wants a PS4 or a world tour they will pray to Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) to put in a good word before God for granting that?? Maybe its just me but it again does not make sense.

7. If asking the intermediary is better then why ask Allah at all? People should make up their minds. If you have a tiny hammer which takes a 100 strikes to hammer a nail and you also happen to have a good big hammer which can hammer a nail with a few strikes, which one will you use, and why will you keep the tiny ineffective hammer with you anyway and not just put it down? It is indicative of confusion to me.

 

 

Edited by The Green Knight
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@The Green Knight Your entire conception is wrong. Dua is not strictly to gain worldly/material things. It is to seek closeness to God and to be God-conscious. Thus, it's not a question of "better than". It's not a doorway to polytheism, because it isn't polytheism in any way. Calling out to revered people is allegorical. Oh Allah, grant me X for the sake of Y personality. It is a ghuluw tendency to literally ask an Imam to ask God for something [thinking that they are all-hearing granted by Allah... yes, even when not thought of as independent of God it is ghuluw], unless they are in your presence (I.e. you are at their grave) where they can actually hear you (martyrs/infallibles are still alive in a sense), and I doubt they will help you in your trivial worldly affairs (unless the affair is truly not trivial). 

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy
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8. If we read our Shia hadith our Imams tell us that their real Shia obey Allah properly and those who do not obey Allah will not receive their help on judgement day because the infallibles want what Allah wants and dislike what Allah dislikes. This especially demolishes any potential benefits of approvals by those who only approve of what Allah approves and reject what Allah rejects. So whats the use of tawassul then? It makes it look like Allah is stone-hearted and they are more merciful.

 

24 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

It's not a doorway to polytheism

And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah ".

Qur'an 10:18

When polytheism first appeared in this world, it was after the passing away of the then Prophet and great grandson of Adam (عليه السلام), the next Prophet was very young so a gap had appeared in succession. Then Satan appeared to the people who loved the deceased Prophet very much and sat in his court looking at his empty seat in sadness. Satan suggested to them to build a statue of the deceased Prophet so they could all remember him. By the time the next Prophet could help the situation Satan already had people worshiping his father, citing excuses.

29 minutes ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Calling out to revered people is allegorical. Oh Allah, grant me X for the sake of Y personality. It is a ghuluw tendency to literally ask an Imam to ask God for something

That is not how the majority of people do it. See, educated and religiously conscious / practicing Shias who tediously created a halal path like that to use intercession may not feel the pinching of the conscience. However the masses of the uneducated and ignorant who imitate tawassul today do not start with "O Allah.." rather they go something like "O Hussain grant me a masculine child verily only you grant masculine children" or "Ya Abbas protect me from harm" or "Ya Ali help us". And these are always non-practicing people who many times don't even know about taharat and there are throngs of such people. Think about them.

 

PS: Is there something wrong with not using intercession when praying? That's the feeling which comes across when people defend it fiercely, that there is something wrong with not using it. On the other hand, I am preferring a perfectly halal, clutter free and simple method instead and those failing at intercession to become polytheists their numbers would have been much less if we Shia had been sensible with this.

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19 minutes ago, The Green Knight said:

PS: Is there something wrong with not using intercession when praying? That's the feeling which comes across when people defend it fiercely, that there is something wrong with not using it. On the other hand, I am preferring a perfectly halal, clutter free and simple method instead and those failing at intercession to become polytheists their numbers would have been much less if we Shia had been sensible with this.

Nonsense. You're making what's halal haram (the definition of innovation) by saying that your version is more halal. That's the issue.

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