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In the Name of God بسم الله

Consensual sexless marriage

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(Salam)

A man and a woman get married and mutually agree without any force/compulsion, that there will be no sexual relation between them...or they agree that sexual relation will be limited to non-penetrative sex only. That is, they agree that they will not consummate their marriage. 

Now if they live like this for several years and suppose the husband accidentally dies, then would the wife have to perform iddah? 

I read a rule that iddah becomes applicable after two years of living together, even if intercourse did not take place a single time, ie., the marriage was never consummated and the woman is still a virgin.

Is anyone aware of the exact rule...does a woman have to undergo iddah even if she is a virgin? 

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Posted (edited)

There can be a variety of reasons: 

1. The couple does not wish to have children and does not wish to use/cannot use any contraception either. So they choose abstinence or limit themselves to non-penetrative sex. 

2. The woman was previously married and experienced severe excruciating pain while having sex (dyspareunia) and was unable to get any benefit from treatment. She does not wish any further vaginal intercourse. 

3. The husband finds non-penetrative sex more pleasurable than penetration and the wife has no objection to this. 

4. The couple attempted penetration but could not achieve it due to severe vaginismus, and now they no longer wish to make further attempts. They feel satisfied with non-penetrative sex. 

5. One of the partners is HIV + and the other partner is not ready to have sex at the risk of getting infected. 

6. The woman has previous history of being sexually assaulted and suffers from PTSD linked to any sexual activity; she categorically refuses sex and the husband agrees. 

7. It is a marriage of convenience, where one spouse has married the other for some material gain for a certain period of time with the intention for divorce later on after several years of living together (it can be mutah)

8. The couple got married under pressure from their families, but have no interest in each other and do not feel any sexual attraction in each other. They are unable to get divorced for the time being. 

9. The reason for marriage is to become mehrum to a permanently disabled person to provide nursing care to him / her. 

10. The man has normal sexual desire but has erectile dysfunction due to previous spinal injuries or other medical conditions and cannot have penetrative sex. The wife does not object. 

11. One or both partners have erroneous feelings of guilt, shame and repulsion to sexual intercourse and feel that maintaining virginity is more pure than indulging in any animalistic behaviour. 

Etc...etc

There can be more reasons...it's a big world and there are all sorts of people and cases which can exist. Even when couples do engage in normal sexual activity, there are couple who do this very rarely.....for example once in a year, or even less. There are many, many couples who do not consummate their marriages for atleast a year. In fact, some individuals give their spouses sexual intercourse as their first wedding anniversary or second wedding anniversary gift...and some can linger on for years without any sex. 

Edited by Liggel
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Guest GodSaveTheRahbar

Bismihi Ta'ala

Salamun Alaykum

Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi writes the following in "Marriage and Morals in Islam":

"...in temporary marriage, Islam has given the prospective spouses the right of working out their own duties and expectation plans...the wife can put a condition in the marriage contract that there will be no sexual relations. Such conditions are invalid in a permanent marriage but allowed in temporary marriage."

It appears that this is either the majority view or (most likely) the consensus.

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7 hours ago, Guest GodSaveTheRahbar said:

Such conditions are invalid in a permanent marriage but allowed in temporary marriage."

Yes, but if husband and wife both mutually agree to not have sexual relations, then there is no problem. This is not like putting in a condition which the other spouse is asked to follow..., it is like making a decision together with mutual understanding. For example a wife has right to demand sex once every 4 months, but she can give up this right if she doesn't want it that frequently. 

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10 hours ago, Liggel said:

1. The couple does not wish to have children and does not wish to use/cannot use any contraception either. So they choose abstinence or limit themselves to non-penetrative sex. 

Contraception is allowed in Islam and has high rates of sucess especially if you combine 2 methods together. 

10 hours ago, Liggel said:

2. The woman was previously married and experienced severe excruciating pain while having sex (dyspareunia) and was unable to get any benefit from treatment. She does not wish any further vaginal intercourse. 

According to Wikipedia only 8–22% of women have experienced dyspareunia in their lives... (Wikipedia says some point in their lives so it's possible some percentage of those women don't suffer long time term) 

10 hours ago, Liggel said:

3. The husband finds non-penetrative sex more pleasurable than penetration and the wife has no objection to this. 

Lol, nope. There's no such thing as a guy like that... 

10 hours ago, Liggel said:

4. The couple attempted penetration but could not achieve it due to severe vaginismus, and now they no longer wish to make further attempts. They feel satisfied with non-penetrative sex. 

Again this only effects a small percentage of the population... And you'll rarely find a relationship in which both partners do not want to have penetrative sex... 

10 hours ago, Liggel said:

5. One of the partners is HIV + and the other partner is not ready to have sex at the risk of getting infected. 

From the NHS website: The amount of HIV virus in your blood (viral load) is measured to see how well treatment is working. Once it can no longer be measured it's known as undetectable. Most people taking daily HIV treatment reach an undetectable viral load within 6 months of starting treatment. After the virus is undetectable it cannot be transferred. 

10 hours ago, Liggel said:

6. The woman has previous history of being sexually assaulted and suffers from PTSD linked to any sexual activity; she categorically refuses sex and the husband agrees. 

Yeah the husband might agree but in simple terms he's going to do haram then, if he has a healthy libido he will masturbate since there's no other output for him. 

11 hours ago, Liggel said:

7. It is a marriage of convenience, where one spouse has married the other for some material gain for a certain period of time with the intention for divorce later on after several years of living together (it can be mutah)

So gold diggers? 

11 hours ago, Liggel said:

8. The couple got married under pressure from their families, but have no interest in each other and do not feel any sexual attraction in each other. They are unable to get divorced for the time being. 

I don't think the Nikkah is actually valid then in the first place... 

11 hours ago, Liggel said:

9. The reason for marriage is to become mehrum to a permanently disabled person to provide nursing care to him / her. 

N/A

11 hours ago, Liggel said:

10. The man has normal sexual desire but has erectile dysfunction due to previous spinal injuries or other medical conditions and cannot have penetrative sex. The wife does not object. 

Well it's not like she can object now is it? Lol

11 hours ago, Liggel said:

11. One or both partners have erroneous feelings of guilt, shame and repulsion to sexual intercourse and feel that maintaining virginity is more pure than indulging in any animalistic behaviour. 

"Animalistic behaviour" 

Read this:

A woman came to the Prophet's (S) house and her strong perfume soon filled the house. When the Prophet asked about the visitor, the woman said that she had tried everything to attract her husband to have sex with her but it was no use; her husband does not leave his meditation to pay any attention to her. The Prophet told her to inform her husband about the reward of sex which he described as follows: "When a man approaches his wife, he is guarded by two angels and [at that moment in Allah's views] he is like a warrior fighting for the cause of Allah. When he has sex with her, his sins fall like the leaves of the trees [in autumn]. When he performs the major ablution (ghusl afterwards) he is cleansed from sins. 

 

Halal sex is highly recommended in Islam and men and women who are married to each other should not refuse it without good excuse. Men and women with healthy libidos will just get along fine in that and they should have no issues. 

In my whole life I've never met a healthy guy who would agree not to have sexual relations in marriage... Because in simple terms it is unnatural not to have sex. On the other hand, having a good libido level, sexual desires and sex itself is natural. 

But then when you get people who don't have healthy libidos or people who think sex is a bad thing that they should be ashamed of, then problems start to arise... 

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9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

 

You have based all your reply on the assumption that no couple can feel satisfied unless they have penetrative sex. Whereas in Islam there is no such thing and a couple is free to do whatever they feel more satisfying, even if it is different from the norm. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Lol, nope. There's no such thing as a guy like that

Your statement only reflects  your lack of knowledge on this topic. There are  men in this world for whom sexual outercourse is far, far more pleasurable than sexual intercourse. People who enjoy outercourse more than intercourse actually say that if they are told that they can never have vaginal intercourse again in their lives, it wouldn't matter to them least bit. And perhaps it would be even more surprising for you to know that there are even couples in this world who find fully clothed sex just as pleasurable, if not more, than having sex while being undressed. So there is absolutely no truth in your claim that there is no such thing as a guy like that. Even Islamic literature on prohibition of masturbation comment on the issue that men who masturbate a lot before  marriage do not feel a great degree of pleasure in vaginal intercourse. Such men often find mutual masturbation more pleasurable than vaginal intercourse.  There are even narrations from hadiths where mutual masturbation is described as one of the ways a couple can adopt in place of vaginal sex, if they find it more suitable. So how can you claim that penetrative sex is the most pleasurable method for every single man in this world ? 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Contraception is allowed in Islam and has high rates of sucess especially if you combine 2 methods together

Who said contraception is forbidden? Contraception is an option available to couples... They can use it if they find it suitable, or they can have non-penetrative sex if they don't find it suitable. There is no problem in either case. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

only 8–22% of women have experienced dyspareunia

Again, this is a matter of personal choice and if a couple feels penetrative sex causes more pain than pleasure, there is no compulsion in Islam that couple must continue to do it. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

you'll rarely find a relationship in which both partners do not want to have penetrative sex... 

Rare, but not impossible. The variation that Allah(s) has created in-between different human beings in terms of their sexual likes and dislikes is more vast that we can know. So, there will always be couples who will not desire penetrative sex more than they desire other non-penetrative methods. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Yeah the husband might agree but in simple terms he's going to do haram then, if he has a healthy libido he will masturbate since there's no other output for him.

In this case, the husband has the right to find any other halal means, but if he cannot find any other means and also doesn't wish to end his current marriage, then he can remain sexually patient and with Allah's help he can stay away from haram like masturbation. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

don't think the Nikkah is actually valid then in the first place... 

It is valid. It becomes invalid when for instance the nikah is done at gun point. If it is just pressure from family and the person agrees , then it is a valid nikah. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

N/A

Getting married to become mehrum to provide nursing care only is a valid reason for marriage. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Well it's not like she can object now is it? Lol

She is not objecting and has agreed to marry a disabled man who cannot have sex. What do you find funny in that? 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Animalistic behaviour

I already said that a person who thinks like this has erroneous belief. 

9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Halal sex is highly recommended in Islam and men and women who are married to each other should not refuse it without good excuse.

This topic is not about couples who refuse to have sex with each other. It is about couples who have a consensual agreement with full mutual understanding for not having vaginal intercourse. There is a big difference between the two. 

https://www.Sistani.org/english/book/48/2333/

Ruling 2436. "A husband cannot refrain from having sexual intercourse with a young wife of his for more than four months unless sexual intercourse is harmful or excessively difficult (mashaqqah) for him, or the wife consents to it, or he had stipulated a condition in the marriage contract regarding this."

This rule shows that couples can be in situations where they agree to not have sexual intercourse because: 

1) it is harmful, or

2) excessively difficult, or 

3) wife consents to not having sex, or 

4) husband has laid down a condition that he will not have sex

All these are valid and acceptable reasons for couples to not have sex and nobody has the right to judge them if they wish to remain in sexless marriage with mutual consent. 

 

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If one’s husband has a sexually transmitted disease, does his wife have to answer his sexual needs when he demands it?
question
My husband has contracted an STD from another woman. The illness is contagious. If my husband demands to sleep with me, is it obligatory for me to consent in this situation? What if he were to have a deadly disease such as AIDS?

The office of the Grand Ayatullah Khamenei:

 

In this specific case, she shouldn’t refuse to comply unless there is a considerable harm in it for her.

 

The office of the Grand Ayatullah Sistani:

 

It is permissible for her to refuse to comply in the case of the disease being transmitted to her, even if its transmission isn't for sure and there are only chances of such. But if there is a way to lessen the chances dramatically say to a two percent chance of its transmission (by using protection for instance), then it is permissible for her to comply and actually as an obligatory precaution, it is necessary for her to do so.

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa7419

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Posted (edited)

Yes, that's fine.... but if she refuses and husband agrees to not have sexual intercourse, then there is no problem.

When the husband and wife both give  their consent for not having sexual intercourse, then it is a mutually agreed sexless marriage.... a consensual sexless marriage. That is the title of the thread. 

Edited by Liggel
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On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

You have based all your reply on the assumption that no couple can feel satisfied unless they have penetrative sex. Whereas in Islam there is no such thing and a couple is free to do whatever they feel more satisfying, even if it is different from the norm. 

I mean as I said before I don't think I've met someone with those views before... Most people accept penetrative sex to be the best thing that's why it's the norm in the first place... 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

Your statement only reflects  your lack of knowledge on this topic. There are  men in this world for whom sexual outercourse is far, far more pleasurable than sexual intercourse.

"Lack of knowledge on this topic" mate you have no idea who you're dealing with.. 

They are a minority number, almost an insignificant number, do you think the porn industry makes billions of dollars from outercourse? Humans have been practicing sex for thousands of years if outercourse was more pleasurable it would be the norm by now. 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

And perhaps it would be even more surprising for you to know that there are even couples in this world who find fully clothed sex just as pleasurable, if not more, than having sex while being undressed

Yeah I know that, that's a fetish... It only feels physically more pleasurable for those people due to the mental obsession behind it... 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

Even Islamic literature on prohibition of masturbation comment on the issue that men who masturbate a lot before  marriage do not feel a great degree of pleasure in vaginal intercourse. Such men often find mutual masturbation more pleasurable than vaginal intercourse.

All boys masturbate okay? Even if they're Muslim, if they say they aren't then they're probably lying. We have entered an age of time when this is unfortunately going to be prevalent and there's nothing anyone can do about it. 

So, since nearly all boys masturbate and penetrative sex is still the norm then there's no truth to that claim... 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

There are even narrations from hadiths where mutual masturbation is described as one of the ways a couple can adopt in place of vaginal sex, if they find it more suitable. So how can you claim that penetrative sex is the most pleasurable method for every single man in this world ? 

This almost contradicts the previous point of yours stating that masturbation leads to dislike of vaginal sex but then hadiths supporting that anyway... 

I can conduct an anonymous survey and I'll guarantee you that I'll receive 90%+ of Males stating that penetrative sex is the best. 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

then he can remain sexually patient and with Allah's help he can stay away from haram like masturbation. 

Are you female?.... Because that sounds like something a female would say? 

Or an old person perhaps? They have been known to say similar things... 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

It is valid. It becomes invalid when for instance the nikah is done at gun point. If it is just pressure from family and the person agrees , then it is a valid nikah. 

@Ashvazdanghe If someone is forced into Nikkah due to family pressures, is the Nikkah valid? "The couple got married under pressure from their families, but have no interest in each other and do not feel any sexual attraction in each other. They are unable to get divorced for the time being."

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

Who said contraception is forbidden? Contraception is an option available to couples... They can use it if they find it suitable, or they can have non-penetrative sex if they don't find it suitable. There is no problem in either case. 

You said previously:

On 3/8/2020 at 2:34 PM, Vindemiatrix said:

The couple does not wish to have children and does not wish to use/cannot use any contraception either.

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

Again, this is a matter of personal choice and if a couple feels penetrative sex causes more pain than pleasure, there is no compulsion in Islam that couple must continue to do it. 

It's a minority number, it doesn't play apart in general discussion... 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

Rare, but not impossible. The variation that Allah(s) has created in-between different human beings in terms of their sexual likes and dislikes is more vast that we can know. So, there will always be couples who will not desire penetrative sex more than they desire other non-penetrative methods. 

I mean I could conduct the study and see just how rare it is... 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

Getting married to become mehrum to provide nursing care only is a valid reason for marriage. 

Yeah so sex isn't applicable then... 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

She is not objecting

Well she can't object though.. 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

I already said that a person who thinks like this has erroneous belief. 

I could just find this:

On 3/8/2020 at 3:23 AM, Liggel said:

One or both partners have erroneous feelings of guilt, shame and repulsion to sexual intercourse and feel that maintaining virginity is more pure than indulging in any animalistic behaviour. 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 12:07 AM, Liggel said:

This topic is not about couples who refuse to have sex with each other. It is about couples who have a consensual agreement with full mutual understanding for not having vaginal intercourse. There is a big difference between the two. 

Yeah I know that too.. It almost sounds like topic which has been made by female who is fearful of penetrative sex would create to try and reassure herself that she won't have issues with guys after marriage... 

That's probably not it though... 

So I will conduct a study, may post it in a separate thread or might put it in this one... 

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28 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Ashvazdanghe If someone is forced into Nikkah due to family pressures, is the Nikkah valid? "The couple got married under pressure from their families, but have no interest in each other and do not feel any sexual attraction in each other. They are unable to get divorced for the time being."

Salam this Nikan is not valid but if after marriage the woman changes her mind & accepts it so the Nikan will become valid .

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45 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

I said before I don't think I've met someone with those views before

I can confirm to you that I know couples who are like that. It's not normal, it's not standard, but it exists. 

51 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

if outercourse was more pleasurable it would be the norm by now. 

I didn't say it is the norm, but there are individuals who would get more pleasure from it, than penetrative sex.

People like that may be extremely rare, but not non-existent. 

49 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

They are a minority number, almost an insignificant number

I didn't say they are in any significant number. But they exist. 

46 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Most people accept penetrative sex to be the best thing

Ofcourse Most....but not all. There are exceptions.

54 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Are you female?.... Because that sounds like something a female would say? 

Lol...I'm male, married and I have children... And I'm a doctor and I've done sexual counseling as well. My research on this topic is quite extensive and I have not yet posted here other scenarios I know of.. Which you probably will not accept either because you may think they are even more impossible than a person liking non-penetrative sex more. For example, can you imagine a couple consummating their marriage nearly two decades after getting married? You might find this impossible, but even such an extremely unsual case has happened in this world. 

59 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

minority number, it doesn't play apart in general discussion... 

This topic is not about general people anyway. It is about rare couples in rare circumstances and the fact that Islam mentions rules about extremely rare cases is evidence that such people exist. 

1 hour ago, Vindemiatrix said:

I will conduct a study, may post it in a separate thread or might put it in this one... 

You can do a study but the results will show what I already accept that vaginal intercourse is the preferred style for most people. You will not find a person easily would disagree to this, by that doesn't give any evidence that such people don't exist. You will need a very wide range population cross section study with a large "n" (statistical value) to find out how many people are like that.

1 hour ago, Vindemiatrix said:

.. It almost sounds like topic which has been made by female who is fearful of penetrative sex would create to try and reassure herself that she won't have issues with guys after marriage... 

I can understand You say this because you have never come across people who are in marriages in which there is no sexual intercourse with mutual consent.

1 hour ago, Vindemiatrix said:

That's probably not it though... 

No, it's not. 

37 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

this Nikan is not valid

Please provide evidence. 

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3 minutes ago, Liggel said:
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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:
1 hour ago, Liggel said:

If the woman is forced into marriage, for example like forced to accept the contract at gun point, then ofcourse it is invalid. But if she is forced into it, for example like pressure from parents, meaning she is not satisfied with the marriage but has nevertheless given consent, though unhappily, then the contract itself will be valid. There are many cases where women give consent because they feel they were forced by their circumstances. This isn't ideal, but the contract itself remains valid. In simpler words, I was referring to cases where women give consent, but they are unhappy with it. This doesn't mean the nikah is invalid. 

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The above is actually a vague situation. I read A similar event happened during the times of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) where a woman complained that she was forced into marriage against her desire. He gave her the option to either leave the marriage or continue with it. She agreed, so the marriage was considered valid. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

It almost sounds like topic which has been made by female who is fearful of penetrative sex would create to try and reassure herself that she won't have issues with guys after marriage

It was not my intent to discuss the reasons why a couple could be satisfied with non-penetrative sex, but since you have generated the above claim, I shall give you some examples. 

Some people may find the following text too explicit, so I would advise some caution. 

_________

There are some medical conditions in which a man can have more pleasure from outercourse than intercourse. 

There is a condition called premature ejaculation due to frenular remnants. The frenulum is an elastic band of tissue that connects the foreskin to the shaft of the male genital organ. It is similar to the band of tissue which connects the tongue to the floor of mouth. The frenulum is very highly rich in nerve endings and is therefore one of the most sexually sensitive parts of the male body. It is extremely sensitive to light touch and gives the most pleasurable feeling. 

Usually the frenulum gets torn and  severed during circumcisions.  In fact, proponents of "no circumcision" for babies argue that circumcisions destroys the frenulum completely and thus the male loses his most sensitive area of body and is not able to derive as much pleasure as non-circumsized men. There is medical research for and against this matter but that is not the point of discussion. Circumcision is wajib - that is enough for us to know.

But the issue is that in some cases, if the frenulum is torn incompletely, it can leave small remnants on the underside of the penis. This is called incomplete circumcision. It is valid Islamically, that is not a problem. Also, the remnants usually do not cause any issues for the individual. But in rare cases, the cut surface of the frenulum exposes the nerve bundles which are usually meant to be covered over by a layer of skin. When this layer of overlying skin is removed during circumcisions, the underlying very, very highly sensitive nerves can get exposed. What can happen is that the sensitivity of this area of the penis gets unusually high. Anything that even lightly touches the nerve bundles sends intense electrical shock-like sensations with extreme degree of pleasurable feeling. Even if that part of the penis touches a piece of clothing or touches the skin on the thighs, it can be enough to initiate shock-like intense pleasurable feelings without the man's own intention. If such a man deliberately puts any pressure on that area of frenular remnants, for example if he lies face down on a mattress, even with full clothes on, the pressure can cause instantaneous, involuntary ejaculation even before erection takes place. If the person lies down on his wife, and both are even fully clothed, the pressure on the unusually sensitive exposed nerves on the penis will cause ejaculation, with or without erection. The pleasure he will feel might even be more than a pleasure any other man feels during penetrative sex. This man might not feel any need to even undress because the pleasure he is getting is already more intense than normal individuals get during penetrative sex. 

This is a very rare type of premature ejaculation but if the person himself is completely satisfied with it, and feels that penetrative sex is not more pleasurable than fully clothed sex, then no treatment is required for this condition, as long as the man is happy with clothed sex. But if the wife wishes to have vaginal sex, and the man therefore wants to get some treatment to satisfy his wife, then there are treatment options that can lessen the sensitivity of his frenular remnants.

He can use local anaesthetic ointments (5% xylocaine ointment, I recommend). This will temporarily numb the nerves in the remnants and will delay ejaculation, and will cause erection and the man will then be able to penetrate. But because the remnants are numb, the man will not feel as much pleasure in intravaginal orgasm as he would feel in fully clothed sexual outercourse when he has not applied the numbing medicine. However, if the remnants are extremely, extremely sensitive then they might not fully get numb even after 5 % xylocaine ointment. Such individuals can be given higher potency local anaesthetics. These treatment options are for short term only (say, for use 15 min before planned sexual activity) and numbing effects last few hours at maximum.

If the frenulum remnants are sensitive to the extent that even high potency local anesthesia does not reduce their sensitivity, then oral medication can be tried which will not reduce the sensitivity but delay the ejaculation. These include SSRI anti-depressants which cause delayed ejaculation as their side effects. 

In summary, men with highly erogenous (sexually sensitive) frenular remnants due to incomplete circumcision may feel as much, if not more, sexual pleasure in fully clothed sexual outercourse, than they would feel even with penetrative sex. Such a man can say that even if he never has vaginal intercourse, it will not be a bother for him. 

Having said that, if a man believes that his highly sensitive areas of penis cause him more discomfort than pleasure, then these can be surgically removed. This option is discussed here: 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21747599/

I will post other examples in the next post. 

Edited by Liggel
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Posted (edited)

Another similar issue is erogenous itching sensation in the frenular remnants. The remnants are so itchy that the man attempts to scratch the remnants to relieve the itch. If he does it by his hand, it could be considered masturbation. But during sex, if he scratches the remnants against the pubic symphysis (front of pelvic bone) of his wife in sexual outercourse, it will give him extremely more pleasurable sensation than intravaginal sex in which he will have nothing hard like bone against which the remnants can be scratched with the result being very less powerful orgasm. Such a man will enjoy outercourse more than intercourse. 

The itch in penis after circumcision is mentioned in this topic. 

________

"A higher percentage of the circumcised men experienced unusual sensations (e.g., burning, ...... and itching)."

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2015/417846/

Edited by Liggel
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Posted (edited)

A third related condition and perhaps the most severe and also the most rare of all is the Traumatic Amputation Neuroma of penis. Neuroma is a tumour of nerves. When circumcision cuts the nerves, in extremely rare cases the cut ends of the nerves can grow into a tumour and become extremely highly sensitive. The tumour hangs like a cauliflower like growth from the shaft of the penis and is sexually sensitive to the extent that if a single hair comes in contact with the surface of the tumour, it results in lightening bolt like intense pleasurable shocks like sensations. Again, this man will feel no need for any penetration because the simple pressure of the wife's clothed body over the Neuroma will be enough to give more pleasure than vaginal sex. 

If the Neuroma however causes discomfort instead of pleasure, it can be surgically removed. 

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https://www.jpedsurg.org/article/S0022-3468(06)00842-6/abstract

The authors present a case of neuroma formation following a circumcision in an 11-year-old boy. Amputation neuroma is an extremely rare clinical entity. 

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  • Medicine
  • Published in Dermatology online journal 2014

Traumatic neuroma of the penis.

Traumatic neuromas are tumors produced by a reactive process to regenerate injured nerves that result in a disordered proliferation of nerve bundles. These tumors are usually related to previous surgery or trauma. We describe a case of traumatic neuroma on the penis of a 24-year-old man; the tumor was initially suspected to be a condyloma. A shave biopsy was both diagnostic and curative. 

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Traumatic-neuroma-of-the-penis.-Hoverson-Sasaki/7fa7e69856b86860cef3070e9c9af7c943284a83

(Warning: This link has images of traumatic neuroma)

Edited by Liggel
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9 hours ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Yeah I know that, that's a fetish... It only feels physically more pleasurable for those people due to the mental obsession behind it...

From the above examples you can see that it is not always mental obsession, but genuine physical reasons why a man will feel greater pleasure in outercourse than intercourse. 

On 3/8/2020 at 2:34 PM, Vindemiatrix said:

Lol, nope. There's no such thing as a guy like that

The above examples should be sufficient to show that there are guys like, although rare. 

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Posted (edited)

Salam Alaykum

Allah Tabaraka & Ta'ala says in holy Qur'an: 

يا أَيُّهَا الَّذينَ آمَنُوا إِذا نَكَحْتُمُ الْمُؤْمِناتِ ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ تَمَسُّوهُنَّ فَما لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ عِدَّةٍ تَعْتَدُّونَها فَمَتِّعُوهُنَّ وَ سَرِّحُوهُنَّ سَراحاً جَميلاً 

O you who have faith! When you marry faithful women and then divorce them before you touch them(not having sexual intercourse) , there shall be no period for you to reckon. But provide for them and release them in a graceful manner.(33/ verse 94)

And you may also find this ruling it in your marja's resalah. The following has been quoted from Ayatollah Sistani's website:  "However, if her husband divorces her before having sexual intercourse with her, there is no ʿiddah, meaning that she can marry immediately after her divorce unless the semen of her husband has entered her vagina, in which case she must observe ʿiddah."

Others have the same opinion. 

So the prescribed waiting period (iddiah) is necessary only when they consummated their marriage before.

Edited by mostafaa
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