Love in the times of Corona

[Guest]

Salam everyone, 

Shrines and holy sites in Iraq and Iran have been closed down due to fears surrounding outbreak of corona virus. The previously crowded shrines of Imams(عليه السلام) are now getting very few visitors, and not just the shrines places like Masjid e Sahlah in Kufa which is said to be the future home of twelfth Imam(عليه السلام) is almost deserted these days. 

The number of visitors to Masjid ul Haram in Makkah has also dropped significantly. 

Two things come to my mind.

1. We have narrations telling us to never give up visiting the Imams(عليه السلام) even if it means risking one's life. 

Aba Abdullah (Imam Jafar Sadiq as) said:

“ Do not neglect performing the Ziyarat of the grave of Hussain (a) due to fear."

"Do not avoid visiting the grave of Imam Husayn ((عليه السلام).) even during the days of prohibition. And one who visits him (his grave) in fear (of the enemies), Allah will give him refuge from the great fear of Qiyamah and he will gain reward proportionate to the fear. And the one who fears due to their fear, Allah will bestow him a refuge under the shade of His empyrean while he shall remain along with Imam Husayn ((عليه السلام).) and shall be protected from the fear of the day of Qiyamah”.

We all know in the past people have willingly given up their lives to visit Imam al Hussain(عليه السلام). Corona has a mortality rate of only 2-3%. That's far less than Abbasids Caliphs chopping off one's heads or limbs as a price for visiting Imams(عليه السلام)

So, is it okay for us to give visiting the shrines? and for how long? 

2. Let's say Imam(عليه السلام) reappears during this virus outbreak and calls his Shias, how many of us would really go and join him? I am not asking in terms of travel restrictions but on a spiritual level. Would we travel to Makkah,Kufa, Iran in the current atmosphere with the risk of being infected and especially when most people in the west don't fell that health services in Iran and Iraq are not upto the mark. 

[habib e najjaar]

Salaam alaykum,

Part of this scenario is not about people's feelings but about travel restrictions in place.

[realizm]

And part of the problem is the mu'minin's uncontrollable habits of kissing, touching, hugging even in times of contagion.

Other part seems to be the clergy minimising hygienical hasard, like when I read this or that alim saying to read ziyarat ashura, or washing hands before eating with [some soap or detergent] or pure water as hygiene measures. Like water is enough to kill bacteria.

Go and visit if you like, but do not touch. And wear a mask. And use alcoholic lotion for God's sake.

[baqar]

1 hour ago, starlight said:

Let's say Imam(عليه السلام) reappears during this virus outbreak and calls his Shias, how many of us would really go and join him?

Dear sister

I think we should wait for his instructions.

He may not want to call us.

Instead, he might consider it more useful that we carry out his instructions in the place we are in.

[AliTanjiro]

Prevention is better than a cure. I can’t remember where I seen it inshallah if I find it I will share it but it says if a Muslim is infected or not sure he must not travel to spread and even if you are very certain that you don’t have the disease it’s still preferred to minimise (travel) 

[AliTanjiro]

this is a copy and past from the internet I seen the references somewhere but can’t seem to find the original post.

Infection control in Islam includes isolation and quarantine.  Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, instituted strategies that are today implemented by public health authorities.  He commanded his followers not to travel to places known to be afflicted with illness and he advised those in the contaminated areas or communities not to leave and spread the disease further afield.  He said, “If you hear that there is a plague in a land, do not enter it; and if it (plague) visits a land while you are therein, do not go out of it”.[6]  He also counseled ill people not to visit healthy people.[7]

[eThErEaL]

On 3/3/2020 at 3:22 AM, starlight said:

Salam everyone, 

Shrines and holy sites in Iraq and Iran have been closed down due to fears surrounding outbreak of corona virus. The previously crowded shrines of Imams(عليه السلام) are now getting very few visitors, and not just the shrines places like Masjid e Sahlah in Kufa which is said to be the future home of twelfth Imam(عليه السلام) is almost deserted these days. 

The number of visitors to Masjid ul Haram in Makkah has also dropped significantly. 

Two things come to my mind.

1. We have narrations telling us to never give up visiting the Imams(عليه السلام) even if it means risking one's life. 

Aba Abdullah (Imam Jafar Sadiq as) said:

“ Do not neglect performing the Ziyarat of the grave of Hussain (a) due to fear."

"Do not avoid visiting the grave of Imam Husayn ((عليه السلام).) even during the days of prohibition. And one who visits him (his grave) in fear (of the enemies), Allah will give him refuge from the great fear of Qiyamah and he will gain reward proportionate to the fear. And the one who fears due to their fear, Allah will bestow him a refuge under the shade of His empyrean while he shall remain along with Imam Husayn ((عليه السلام).) and shall be protected from the fear of the day of Qiyamah”.

We all know in the past people have willingly given up their lives to visit Imam al Hussain(عليه السلام). Corona has a mortality rate of only 2-3%. That's far less than Abbasids Caliphs chopping off one's heads or limbs as a price for visiting Imams(عليه السلام)

So, is it okay for us to give visiting the shrines? and for how long? 

2. Let's say Imam(عليه السلام) reappears during this virus outbreak and calls his Shias, how many of us would really go and join him? I am not asking in terms of travel restrictions but on a spiritual level. Would we travel to Makkah,Kufa, Iran in the current atmosphere with the risk of being infected and especially when most people in the west don't fell that health services in Iran and Iraq are not upto the mark. 

We should all start to use our common sense for once.

It is not only you who gets affected.  You then spread it to others when you go back home.  There can easily be a world wide epidemic if people remain stupid and follow religion blindly.    

If you find it a contradiction with your religion, then it’s time for you to go back to the drawing board and seriously ask “why am I following a religion?”  “Why am I being stupid”.  In light of this, Atheism is more virtuous in God’s eyes than stupid followers of a religion.  

Edited March 4, 2020 by Hameedeh
Large empty space removed.

[Guest Dark Invader]

To be perfectly honest if the mentioned narration is from the safavid era then I would be cautious. Just saying.

[Muhammed Ali]

Context important. If the Shia stopped visiting, then the oppressors would have won. Corona is temporary and isn't try to bring an end to ziyarah.

And Allah knows better.

[Sirius_Bright]

7 hours ago, Ali2196 said:

this is a copy and past from the internet I seen the references somewhere but can’t seem to find the original post.

Infection control in Islam includes isolation and quarantine.  Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, instituted strategies that are today implemented by public health authorities.  He commanded his followers not to travel to places known to be afflicted with illness and he advised those in the contaminated areas or communities not to leave and spread the disease further afield.  He said, “If you hear that there is a plague in a land, do not enter it; and if it (plague) visits a land while you are therein, do not go out of it”.[6]  He also counseled ill people not to visit healthy people.[7]

This is from Bukhari/Muslim. 

[Guest well!Monad]

2 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

Context important. If the Shia stopped visiting, then the oppressors would have won. Corona is temporary and isn't try to bring an end to ziyarah.

And Allah knows better

the oppressors have won more times in many lands before the advent of the Prophet and his family and after his family and countinue to this day. It was not only a phenomenon in their timeline as how it has been portayed. while we all dream of hero.......

I suggest a reading of this below.

 

And they are preserved, to speak generally, by the opposite causes; or, if we consider them separately, (1) royalty is preserved by the limitation of its powers. The more restricted the functions of kings, the longer their power will last unimpaired; for then they are more moderate and not so despotic in their ways; and they are less envied by their subjects. This is the reason why the kingly office has lasted so long among the Molossians. And for a similar reason it has continued among the Lacedaemonians, because there it was always divided between two, and afterwards further limited by Theopompus in various respects, more particularly by the establishment of the Ephoralty. He diminished the power of the kings, but established on a more lasting basis the kingly office, which was thus made in a certain sense not less, but greater. There is a story that when his wife once asked him whether he was not ashamed to leave to his sons a royal power which was less than he had inherited from his father, 'No indeed,' he replied, 'for the power which I leave to them will be more lasting.'

As to (2) tyrannies, they are preserved in two most opposite ways. One of them is the old traditional method in which most tyrants administer their government. Of such arts Periander of Corinth is said to have been the great master, and many similar devices may be gathered from the Persians in the administration of their government. There are firstly the prescriptions mentioned some distance back, for the preservation of a tyranny, in so far as this is possible; viz., that the tyrant should lop off those who are too high; he must put to death men of spirit; he must not allow common meals, clubs, education, and the like; he must be upon his guard against anything which is likely to inspire either courage or confidence among his subjects; he must prohibit literary assemblies or other meetings for discussion, and he must take every means to prevent people from knowing one another (for acquaintance begets mutual confidence). Further, he must compel all persons staying in the city to appear in public and live at his gates; then he will know what they are doing: if they are always kept under, they will learn to be humble. In short, he should practice these and the like Persian and barbaric arts, which all have the same object. A tyrant should also endeavor to know what each of his subjects says or does, and should employ spies, like the 'female detectives' at Syracuse, and the eavesdroppers whom Hiero was in the habit of sending to any place of resort or meeting; for the fear of informers prevents people from speaking their minds, and if they do, they are more easily found out. Another art of the tyrant is to sow quarrels among the citizens; friends should be embroiled with friends, the people with the notables, and the rich with one another. Also he should impoverish his subjects; he thus provides against the maintenance of a guard by the citizen and the people, having to keep hard at work, are prevented from conspiring. The Pyramids of Egypt afford an example of this policy; also the offerings of the family of Cypselus, and the building of the temple of Olympian Zeus by the Peisistratidae, and the great Polycratean monuments at Samos; all these works were alike intended to occupy the people and keep them poor. Another practice of tyrants is to multiply taxes, after the manner of Dionysius at Syracuse, who contrived that within five years his subjects should bring into the treasury their whole property. The tyrant is also fond of making war in order that his subjects may have something to do and be always in want of a leader. And whereas the power of a king is preserved by his friends, the characteristic of a tyrant is to distrust his friends, because he knows that all men want to overthrow him, and they above all have the power.

Again, the evil practices of the last and worst form of democracy are all found in tyrannies. Such are the power given to women in their families in the hope that they will inform against their husbands, and the license which is allowed to slaves in order that they may betray their masters; for slaves and women do not conspire against tyrants; and they are of course friendly to tyrannies and also to democracies, since under them they have a good time. For the people too would fain be a monarch, and therefore by them, as well as by the tyrant, the flatterer is held in honor; in democracies he is the demagogue; and the tyrant also has those who associate with him in a humble spirit, which is a work of flattery.

Hence tyrants are always fond of bad men, because they love to be flattered, but no man who has the spirit of a freeman in him will lower himself by flattery; good men love others, or at any rate do not flatter them. Moreover, the bad are useful for bad purposes; 'nail knocks out nail,' as the proverb says. It is characteristic of a tyrant to dislike every one who has dignity or independence; he wants to be alone in his glory, but any one who claims a like dignity or asserts his independence encroaches upon his prerogative, and is hated by him as an enemy to his power. Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him.

Such are the notes of the tyrant and the arts by which he preserves his power; there is no wickedness too great for him. All that we have said may be summed up under three heads, which answer to the three aims of the tyrant. These are, (1) the humiliation of his subjects; he knows that a mean-spirited man will not conspire against anybody; (2) the creation of mistrust among them; for a tyrant is not overthrown until men begin to have confidence in one another; and this is the reason why tyrants are at war with the good; they are under the idea that their power is endangered by them, not only because they would not be ruled despotically but also because they are loyal to one another, and to other men, and do not inform against one another or against other men; (3) the tyrant desires that his subjects shall be incapable of action, for no one attempts what is impossible, and they will not attempt to overthrow a tyranny, if they are powerless. Under these three heads the whole policy of a tyrant may be summed up, and to one or other of them all his ideas may be referred: (1) he sows distrust among his subjects; (2) he takes away their power; (3) he humbles them.

[shadow_of_light]

Salam

People who go for ziyarah, put not only their own lives but those of others as well, at risk and this is haq-al naas (حق الناس).

[realizm]

5 minutes ago, shadow_of_light said:

Salam

People who go for ziyarah, put not only their own lives but those of others as well, at risk and this is haq-al naas (حق الناس).

You mean one's health and safety is a God given right, so no one should put it in jeopardy, right ?

[shadow_of_light]

2 minutes ago, realizm said:

You mean one's health and safety is a God given right, so no one should put it in jeopardy, right ?

Yes

[Moalfas]

There are some silly Individuals who've filmed themselves licking the shrines شبّاك in both Qom and Mashhad which is very embarrassing. Media typically jumped at the opportunity..

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-51706021

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Moalfas
Typo

[Ashvazdanghe]

18 hours ago, Moalfas said:

There are some silly Individuals who've filmed themselves licking the shrines شبّاك in both Qom and Mashhad which is very embarrassing. Media typically jumped at the opportunity..

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-51706021

All of these silly individuals are from Shirazi [followers] that their movie of their visit with Ayt Shirazi released after doing their silly act & fortunately they arrested by Iranian security .

https://www.khabaronline.ir/news/1359320/فیلم-دیده-نشده-از-هویت-فردی-که-ضریح-را-لیس-می-زند

https://www.yjc.ir/fa/news/7266853/فیلم-دیده-نشده-از-هویت-فردی-که-ضریح-را-لیس-زد-فیلم

Edited March 4, 2020 by Hameedeh
[followers] 

[Moalfas]

11 hours ago, realizm said:

like when I read this or that alim saying to read ziyarat ashura,

Whilst I agree that common sense should be used during any viral outbreak, I wouldn't be so quick to discredit something I don't necessarily understand such as the power(s) of reading Zyarat Ashura. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Moalfas

[Ashvazdanghe]

12 hours ago, starlight said:

1. We have narrations telling us to never give up visiting the Imams(عليه السلام) even if it means risking one's life

Salam , it’s true but we must follow healthy  instructions too.

12 hours ago, starlight said:

2. Let's say Imam(عليه السلام) reappears during this virus outbreak and calls his Shias, how many of us would really go and join him? I am not asking in terms of travel restrictions but on a spiritual level.

When Imam (aj) reappears & calls Shias for help , every illness will remove from Shias & we won’t affect by any disease anymore by the way still there will be excuses for procrastinating & not answering  his call by some people like me.

[hasanhh]

 "l'm shocked." to paraphrase Claude Rains (as Cpt Louis Renault), "l'm shocked to find starlight would entitle a thread like this."

[baqar]

16 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

 "l'm shocked." to paraphrase Claude Rains (as Cpt Louis Renault), "l'm shocked to find starlight would entitle a thread like this."

She is talking about love for the sublime and the pure, not for evanescent, ephemeral, fleeting or fugacious delights. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, realizm said:

You mean one's health and safety is a God given right, so no one should put it in jeopardy, right ?

 

7 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Yes

What do you think about the people who kept visiting the shrines in the time of Abbasids, Saddam and ISIS? 

17 hours ago, realizm said:

when I read this or that alim saying to read ziyarat ashura

Not saying one starts ignoring health and safety measure but Ziyarat e Ashura is very powerful.

There is a narration about Ziyarat e Ashura protecting people in a plague narrated by Ayatollah Abdul Karim Haeri Yazdi (the founder of the Howza in Qom) when he was in Samarra. An epidemic of plague spread in the city and people were dying.  In a meeting of the ulemas, his teacher, Ayatollah Fasharki advised the audience to spread his advice to recite Ziarat-e-Ashura for ten days and offer the reward of the supplication to the mother of Imam-e-Zamana (Janab-e-Narjis Khatoon) and beseech her to present our case to the Wali-ul-Asr so that the Imam shields us from the malady. The plague subsided and there were no more casualties of Momineen. But the other Muslims continued to suffer. They approached the Shia leaders and inquired about this miraculous reprieve. They informed the Sunni Muslims about Ziarat-e-Ashoora, and they were saved from plague.

[AliTanjiro]

6 hours ago, Sirius_Bright said:

This is from Bukhari/Muslim. 

Where’re it’s from it makes perfect sense to follow this. 

[AmirioTheMuzzy]

18 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

All of these silly individuals are from Shirazi [followers] 

You're acting like Shirazi personally told them to lick the shrines, or as if it's written in his risalah to lick shrines.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Hameedeh
Quote was edited.

[hasanhh]

4 hours ago, baqar said:

She is talking about love for the sublime and the pure, not for evanescent, ephemeral, fleeting or fugacious delights. 

Now let us parse this here pontification.

"She is talking about love for the sublime . . ."  She ain't "talking", but "writing", so please use a more proper verb. Plus, "sublime" means to pass from a feet-on-the-ground solid into a vaporous state -which carry's with it the obvious thermodynamic chaos (of mind). Now if you wished to imply something awe-inspiring or splendid, that carries the emotional, the undisciplined estatic response of mind -which is secular and not lsIamic.

Then you wrote, ". . . not for evanescent, ephemeral, fleeting or fugacious delights."   l find no "delight" in such a surfeit exercise from a peregrination of the lexiographic index.

Question: Now you couldn't  possibly, really believe that l'd leave such a pompus platitude alone -did you?

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Now let us parse this here pontification.

"She is talking about love for the sublime . . ."  She ain't "talking", but "writing", so please use a more proper verb. Plus, "sublime" means to pass from a feet-on-the-ground solid into a vaporous state -which carry's with it the obvious thermodynamic chaos (of mind). Now if you wished to imply something awe-inspiring or splendid, that carries the emotional, the undisciplined estatic response of mind -which is secular and not lsIamic.

Then you wrote, ". . . not for evanescent, ephemeral, fleeting or fugacious delights."   l find no "delight" in such a surfeit exercise from a peregrination of the lexiographic index.

Question: Now you couldn't  possibly, really believe that l'd leave such a pompus platitude alone -did you?

[hasanhh]

7 minutes ago, starlight said:

It doesn't look Iike me at all.

[baqar]

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

 She ain't "talking", but "writing",

In conversational English, it is perfectly all right to say "talking."

1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

"sublime" means to pass from a feet-on-the-ground solid into a vaporous state -which carry's with it the obvious thermodynamic chaos (of mind).

"Sublime" has lots of meanings.

The one implied here is "inspiring awe" or "supreme and outstanding."

[hasanhh]

29 minutes ago, baqar said:

Sublime" has lots of meanings.

Somewhat true, but l do not accept that Star has a vaporous mind.

[baqar]

6 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Somewhat true, but l do not accept that Star has a vaporous mind.

"Sublime" does not refer to her.

It refers to the Ahle Bayt (عليه السلام), in particular the Imam of the Day, about whom she was talking.

And as I said, the meaning here is "inspiring awe, supreme and outstanding."  

[realizm]

16 hours ago, starlight said:

What do you think about the people who kept visiting the shrines in the time of Abbasids, Saddam and ISIS? 

Not saying one starts ignoring health and safety measure but Ziyarat e Ashura is very powerful.

There is a narration about Ziyarat e Ashura protecting people in a plague narrated by Ayatollah Abdul Karim Haeri Yazdi (the founder of the Howza in Qom) when he was in Samarra. An epidemic of plague spread in the city and people were dying.  In a meeting of the ulemas, his teacher, Ayatollah Fasharki advised the audience to spread his advice to recite Ziarat-e-Ashura for ten days and offer the reward of the supplication to the mother of Imam-e-Zamana (Janab-e-Narjis Khatoon) and beseech her to present our case to the Wali-ul-Asr so that the Imam shields us from the malady. The plague subsided and there were no more casualties of Momineen. But the other Muslims continued to suffer. They approached the Shia leaders and inquired about this miraculous reprieve. They informed the Sunni Muslims about Ziarat-e-Ashoora, and they were saved from plague.

I am too much of a skeptical person to accept this kind of anecdote as sufficient in such a context. Plus I think an illness and its cure are the affairs of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) alone, so being shielded by Imam sounds just wrong to me.

But anyway, there's more to it that what I call superstitions. It's the 'rely on simple Muslim habits' and you will be fine.

Like making wudhu several times a day can fight a virus, while in mosques there is often no soap and public bathroom may turn out to be perfect clusters of virus.

Or wash your hands before eating as the etiquette recommends it, when it's advised to wash every hour.

Actually what I hate here is that instead of saying 'be twice as much cautious' some say 'we Shias will be fine'.

[Sirius_Bright]

5 hours ago, Ali2196 said:

Where’re it’s from it makes perfect sense to follow this. 

Doesn't matter what makes sense. This is from the same book which also has insults to Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his family (عليهم اسلام) and all the filth one can think of. I would wary even taking most appropriate looking hadith from these books. 

[Guest licker! monad]

To defend the lickers. Nothing wrong in it as they are portraying and claiming their faith and love is stronger then a virus. that is a sign of courage and fortitude. rash? perhaps, but how many rash individuals have been celebrated and deemed heros!. Therefore do not become cowards in front of propaganda , learn how to answer it and laugh at those trying to insult it, once they get caught out.

[realizm]

42 minutes ago, Guest licker! monad said:

To defend the lickers. Nothing wrong in it as they are portraying and claiming their faith and love is stronger then a virus. that is a sign of courage and fortitude. rash? perhaps, but how many rash individuals have been celebrated and deemed heros!. Therefore do not become cowards in front of propaganda , learn how to answer it and laugh at those trying to insult it, once they get caught out.

Come one they are disgusting, portraying yourself in the act of licking, how is that even respectable, not to mention 'Islamic'. 

These people either embarrassingly stupid, or aiming at ridiculing us.

[Guest Locked in Qom]

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, Guest licker! monad said:

To defend the lickers. Nothing wrong in it as they are portraying and claiming their faith and love is stronger then a virus. that is a sign of courage and fortitude. rash? perhaps, but how many rash individuals have been celebrated and deemed heros!. Therefore do not become cowards in front of propaganda , learn how to answer it and laugh at those trying to insult it, once they get caught out.

Their stupid actions only causes Wahabist insult all Shias even some of them insulted to our Imams & said they are just dead bodies that Shias are worshiping them also anti Muslim guys used this stupid action for insulting to All Muslims .