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In the Name of God بسم الله
Ejaz

Is riding a bicycle haram for women?

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Salamun alaykum,

This hadith about the (non-specific) signs of the end times talks about women riding the saddle:

Quote

“O Salman, and at that time males will satisfy their lust with males; and females will satisfy their lust with females; and minor boys will be mounted upon like women; and the males will liken themselves to females (I.e, will look like females); and females will look like males (The clean- shaved faces and long hair on one side, and pants and bell-bottoms on the other side are proof of the fulfilment of this forecast); and females will ride the saddles (I.e, horses, cycles, scooters and motor-cycles). So there will be Curse of Allah upon those women of my Ummat

Is this harām?

Did the Holy Ladies (s.a.) voluntarily ride saddles? I.e. it is known that Bibi Khadija was a businesswoman, and that rasulullah worked for her but did she ever ride a saddle herself?


What do the fuqaha say about this?

Edited by Ejaz
Early submit

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They are just against riding by cycle by women in public places in front of men but there is no problem if they ride bicycle in private places but there is nothing about being Haram. 

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Guest Puzzled
50 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

They are just against riding by cycle by women in public places in front of men but there is no problem if they ride bicycle in private places but there is nothing about being Haram. 

So women should only ride bicycles inside their own home? Makes perfect sense to me.

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14 hours ago, Ejaz said:

and females will ride the saddles (I.e, horses, cycles, scooters and motor-cycles)

I have no clue why the author (respected scholar) put cycles, scooters, and motorcycles as restated. I don't know on what basis he is making any of his predictions and comparisons with modernity. As far as I can tell, it isn't stated in the text. Maybe it doesn't need to be, I don't know. Anyways, I suspect he has good reasons for listing these, but I don't know what his reasonings are....

14 hours ago, Ejaz said:

The clean- shaved faces and long hair on one side, and pants and bell-bottoms on the other side are proof of the fulfilment of this forecast

For instance, why does he list these particular things as feminine, on what (Islamic) basis?


----------


Source: https://www.al-Islam.org/day-of-judgement-Sayyid-akhtar-Rizvi/part-3-some-signs-day-resurrection#26-said-holy-Prophet [Part 3, Section (26)]
PDF/EPUB/MOBI links: https://www.al-Islam.org/day-judgement-Sayyid-saeed-akhtar-Rizvi [PDF: Part 3, Section (26), page 40]

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14 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Is this harām?

Did the Holy Ladies (s.a.) voluntarily ride saddles?

9 hours ago, Guest Puzzled said:

So women should only ride bicycles inside their own home? Makes perfect sense to me.

This is not what he meant. It is a general ruling of "if it attracts the attention of men and is in conflict with women's chastity"... "if there is fear of corruption or sedition", etc.

If it doesn't, then it's halal.

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Relevant articles (I used Google Translate, but it seems relatively accurate still):
https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa16545 [FA]
https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa26659 [FA]
https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa43113 [FA]

Somewhat related (available in English):
https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa535 [EN, ID, ES, AR, FA]

Barely related:
https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa62233 [FA]

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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15 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Salamun alaykum,

This hadith about the (non-specific) signs of the end times talks about women riding the saddle:

Is this harām?

Did the Holy Ladies (s.a.) voluntarily ride saddles? I.e. it is known that Bibi Khadija was a businesswoman, and that rasulullah worked for her but did she ever ride a saddle herself?


What do the fuqaha say about this?

Saddle refers to fast moving vehicles that are also used in wars, because if it would have been haram for women to ride anything, they would not have rode Camels. 

So, here it probably applies for women not to ride sports cars, tanks, jet fighters to compete with men. Women and men cannot compete with each other in their specialized fields.

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23 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Salamun alaykum,

This hadith about the (non-specific) signs of the end times talks about women riding the saddle:

Is this harām?

Did the Holy Ladies (s.a.) voluntarily ride saddles? I.e. it is known that Bibi Khadija was a businesswoman, and that rasulullah worked for her but did she ever ride a saddle herself?


What do the fuqaha say about this?

Where you got that hadith from? Driving is not haram. Women could drive. If women could drive car I do not see harm in riding a motorcycle or bicycle. 

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47 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Where you got that hadith from? Driving is not haram. Women could drive. If women could drive car I do not see harm in riding a motorcycle or bicycle. 

The hadith is talking about riding horses. The source is a scholar predicting signs of end times & the future more generally. He extrapolates the horse saddle to include other "saddles".

Source: https://www.al-Islam.org/day-of-judgement-Sayyid-akhtar-Rizvi/part-3-some-signs-day-resurrection#26-said-holy-Prophet [Part 3, Section (26)]
PDF/EPUB/MOBI links: https://www.al-Islam.org/day-judgement-Sayyid-saeed-akhtar-Rizvi [PDF: Part 3, Section (26), page 40]

Edit: I will try to find the actual hadith if I have time, though I don't know Arabic.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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Just now, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

He extrapolates the horse saddle to include other "saddles".

Didn't camels have saddles in the time of the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Aisha rode a Camel in the battle of the Camel. It may have been haram of her to fight Amir al-Muminin (عليه سلم) but would she have rode the camel if riding it was haram?  When I was in India I rode a camel with a saddle. Hope I didn't do anything haram then. :worried:

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1 hour ago, Revert1963 said:

Hope I didn't do anything haram then.

Nah, you probably didn't do anything haram or even makruh. These are historical traditions not modern jurisprudential rulings.

For example, the author also wrote clean-shaved faces for men, and not all maraji think shaving the beard is haram.

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On 2/28/2020 at 12:29 AM, Guest Puzzled said:

So women should only ride bicycles inside their own home? Makes perfect sense to me.

:hahaha: no but in Iran there is special parks Places for women that no man can enter it but riding bicycle in public place that men can see them de facto is not allowed.

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14 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

Didn't camels have saddles in the time of the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Aisha rode a Camel in the battle of the Camel. It may have been haram of her to fight Amir al-Muminin (عليه سلم) but would she have rode the camel if riding it was haram?  When I was in India I rode a camel with a saddle. Hope I didn't do anything haram then. :worried:

Salam Aisha herself didn't rode the camel , She was in A howdah, or houdah that men were pulling Tack of her Camel that most famous of them was son of Zubair that held tack of her camel in battle of Jamal but Aisha rode a mule by sitting on saddle to prevent burying of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) beside Prophet Muhammad (pbu) that it mentioned in Sunni sources that Ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه) criticized her for doing it & said you sat on back of camel then now a mule & next day you want to ride a horse although Qur'an ordered to wives of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) to stay in their homes even don't walk in manner that causes rising illness in heart of men but saddest thing for Shia Muslims is that after Karbala enemies of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) forced that lady Zaynab (sa) to sit behind camel without howdah, or houdah or even saddle for total humiliation of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) .

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1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

pulling Tack of her Camel that most famous of them was son of Zubair that held tack of her camel in battle of Jamal

Tack= Reins :blush:

نتیجه تصویری برای Tack

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest Puzzled
6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

:hahaha: no but in Iran there is special parks Places for women that no man can enter it but riding bicycle in public place that men can see them de facto is not allowed.

How do the women get their bikes to the “special parks” so they can then ride them freely without men being able to watch them?

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16 hours ago, Guest Puzzled said:

How do the women get their bikes to the “special parks” so they can then ride them freely without men being able to watch them?

everybody can moves bicycle by a car or rents it in park (Image is just for clarification) :grin:

نتیجه تصویری برای bicycle behind car

just for fun

نتیجه تصویری برای bicycle behind car

just for fun

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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Guest Puzzled

So as long as women don't use a sports car when they transport their bike to a segregated park to cycle without being observed by the prying eyes of men then everything is sharia compliant?

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Question: Is it permissible for a female to ride a horse?

Answer: It is not permissible if it causes sexual arousal, to her or the one viewing.
 
 

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Guest Nicolas-Edme
49 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

Question: Is it permissible for a female to ride a horse?

Answer: It is not permissible if it causes sexual arousal, to her or the one viewing.
 
 

Does that mean that women should not wear shoes in public in case there are men watching them who have retifism?

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50 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

Question: Is it permissible for a female to ride a horse?

Answer: It is not permissible if it causes sexual arousal, to her or the one viewing.
 
 

Also, I just found it here in an istifa, worded slightly different. (Sistani)

I also just found Khamenei's ruling (unless he has changed it since then):

Quote

Q: Is it permissible for women, despite their need for proper covering, to ride bicycles and motor bikes? If so, please list the conditions.

A: A women must avoid circumstances and actions which require her to be self-conscious of her appearance in front of ghairul-mahram. Riding a bicycle or motor bike in a public place, by a pedestrian walkway, or in view of others leads to corruption (in light of fulfilling the above mentioned criteria), and thus, is not permissible.

 

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So basically, simplified...

Sistani = Halal, unless sexual arousal will occur for herself or the person/people watching

Khamenei = Haram in public, Halal in private / with only mahram or husband watching

??? I hope my understanding is correct.

Edited by AmirioTheMuzzy

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6 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

unless sexual arousal will occur for herself or the person

Maybe those men who have clouded their fitrah or are driven by their tabiah will gaze at women riding bicycles, especially if clothing is inappropriate. Thus both the rulings making sense.

And Allah knows best.

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8 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

So basically, simplified...

Sistani = Halal, unless sexual arousal will occur for herself or the person/people watching

Khamenei = Haram in public, Halal in private / with only mahram or husband watching

??? I hope my understanding is correct.

Would the same apply to a motorbike? In my opinion it should be avoided especially because it could lead to sexual arousal. 

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11 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Sistani = Halal, unless sexual arousal will occur for herself or the person/people watching

Khamenei = Haram in public, Halal in private / with only mahram or husband watching

:cry: This makes med sad. I like bicycling. So I guess I will have to pull my bicycle till I reach the woods where no one can see me. Then when I spot someone in the distance on the track I will quickly jump of my bicycle and wait until the person has passed. Or am I only allowed to bicycle in my apartment?

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:bismillah:

2 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

:cry: This makes med sad. I like bicycling. So I guess I will have to pull my bicycle till I reach the woods where no one can see me. Then when I spot someone in the distance on the track I will quickly jump of my bicycle and wait until the person has passed. Or am I only allowed to bicycle in my apartment?

Salam, answers based on jurisprudence is a kind of production of knowledge and should be read in their official sites and needs look up for it. For example Imam Khamenei Peace upon Him does not say and mention "halal in private with mahram or husband watching" because the question is not about it. And it makes one confused; and drag nice conclusions to bicycle in a way no men sees.

8 hours ago, Ejaz said:

Maybe those men who have clouded their fitrah or are driven by their tabiah will gaze at women riding bicycles, especially if clothing is inappropriate. Thus both the rulings making sense.

And Allah knows best.

Salam, it has to do with عفة; a time west men wore hats not because it was a kind of fashion but actual culture. But have we asked why! Are guys ready to search for the reason, if anything good; actually continue with the culture. It simply vanished but still from old cultures they had all hats and certainly it was not because no one should see their hair but maybe because of عفة. Unfortunatly Muslim men maybe think it is sheiks, or religious ones should have something on their head. No one asks their marja what is that you have on your head? Can I also have it? Can I be without it? Why in old times everyone had it? Hope I have not changed the subject, just want to create patterns to think more generally and in greater spectrum to be able to ponder-تدبر- easily.

عنه عليه السلام : زَكاةُ الجَمالِ العَفاف
امام على عليه السلام : زكات زيبايى، عفّت است
  ميزان الحكمه جلد هفتم محمّد محمّدی ری شهري صفحه ۴۵۱
Imam Ali (A): The Alms of Beauty is Chastity.
 
عنه عليه السلام : لا تَكمُلُ المَكارِمُ إلّا بِالعَفافِ وَالإِيثارِ
امام على عليه السلام : خصلت هاى والاى انسانى ، جز با عفّت و ايثار ، كامل نمى گردد
ميزان الحكمه جلد اوّل محمّد محمّدی ری شهري صفحه ۲۳

Imam Ali (A): Virtues will not be Perfected; unless with Chastity and Altruism.

Notes: http://mizan.hadith.net/

Edited by Ali.Isa

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Guest diha

I'm sorry? why is this considered haram. I live in the Netherlands and it is well known that everyone here rides a bike, including me, a woman. sorry this seems like a joke question to me? 

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On 3/3/2020 at 9:16 PM, Guest diha said:

I'm sorry? why is this considered haram. I live in the Netherlands and it is well known that everyone here rides a bike, including me, a woman. sorry this seems like a joke question to me? 

Firstly hi, secondly why should it be a joke. Yes its a simple matter and we are discussing here so our siblings in faith understand the issue more profoundly and think on greater purposes. Simple issue but important for us specially sisters here.

Belief has important role in this issue, lesser is the issue of outer appearance while 'cycling. Saying it from the start so no one blames me for only having distinguished visualized vitality...

We belief that every act lifting a finger has a law for it; is it allowed and encouraged or forbidden and disliked or lastly in vain and absurd without an actual result moving us forward in existence or backward.

In the Islamic Ethical System everything we consume; be it food, act, thought and book has role in our spiritual and moral virtues and vices and its values. For both men and women the priority and degree of virtues is not the same. For ex. For men it is a priority and virtue to be brave but not for women. For women ex. Its a priority to have shyness as virtue while in society than for men to reach perfection. So actually it does not need braveness as much as men just minimum is enough.

Now this act or that act; can it make me to have more stronger virtues or get weaker, its all based on what we believe and thought patterns with acts of limbs. 

A woman 'human' bicycling: The outer appearance if the outfit is not glued in the body and men sees it as a skin colored woman and considering not.. it.. cloths.. that is problem for her spiritual will being and her vitality. So these sporty cloths are more a problem for her than bicycling. Now lets say its good clothes; what happens at the end of the bicycling journey; has she got more shyness and chastity as virtue or she loses it or already has lost alot and not everything and feels like a men conquering the world not the house to manage the man that tries to conquer the actual world, by supporting him.

The world is big but how many square meter is all the houses all together. Lets say thousand square meter for each woman that is married lets pick random number 2.8 billion woman. 2.8 × 1000m2! Now how much space is that compared to city spaces around the globe. For sure not little. The space for men outside is the same. A office, a factory he comes and goes. These two spaces differentiate from each other too but this issue being different from each other creates harmoniousity with each other at the same time. So I do not see the logic of western women being so much outside of the house each day and so many hours!? Its a behavioural joke.

As seen they have to acquire different moral values so have to do different acts to gain perfection or preserve the perfection they had.

Intention for nearness to God that has to do with belief; is also important by actually properly using your capabilities. Its more just unsuitable to 'cycle around for women but the main goal is to transport her to locations she want so they can invent a more proper transport vehicle.

Edited by Ali.Isa

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On 2/27/2020 at 8:23 PM, Ejaz said:

and females will ride the saddles (I.e, horses, cycles, scooters and motor-cycles). So there will be Curse of Allah upon those women of my Ummat

Imagine for a while how were women of that time used to travel the distances? Do you think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has allowed males to ride horses, camels, scooters etc and deprived women from riding these means of journey? 

And finally, I am wondering whether women are excluded from these verses which mentions the an'am as ne'mat and commanding us to ride on them and then recite His Hamd:

وَالَّذِي خَلَقَ الْأَزْوَاجَ كُلَّهَا وَجَعَلَ لَكُمْ مِنَ الْفُلْكِ وَالْأَنْعَامِ مَا تَرْكَبُونَ
لِتَسْتَوُوا عَلَىٰ ظُهُورِهِ ثُمَّ تَذْكُرُوا نِعْمَةَ رَبِّكُمْ إِذَا اسْتَوَيْتُمْ عَلَيْهِ وَتَقُولُوا سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي سَخَّرَ لَنَا هَٰذَا وَمَا كُنَّا لَهُ مُقْرِنِينَ

 And He Who created pairs of all things, and made for you of the ships and the cattle what you ride on. That you may firmly sit on their backs, then remember the favor of your Lord when you are firmly seated thereon, and say: Glory be to Him Who made this subservient to us and we were not able to do it. (43:12-13)

So I would like to ask you to share Arabic text of this Hadith and its references. 

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3 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

Imagine for a while how were women of that time used to travel the distances? Do you think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has allowed males to ride horses, camels, scooters etc and deprived women from riding these means of journey? 

And finally, I am wondering whether women are excluded from these verses which mentions the an'am as ne'mat and commanding us to ride on them and then recite His Hamd:

وَالَّذِي خَلَقَ الْأَزْوَاجَ كُلَّهَا وَجَعَلَ لَكُمْ مِنَ الْفُلْكِ وَالْأَنْعَامِ مَا تَرْكَبُونَ
لِتَسْتَوُوا عَلَىٰ ظُهُورِهِ ثُمَّ تَذْكُرُوا نِعْمَةَ رَبِّكُمْ إِذَا اسْتَوَيْتُمْ عَلَيْهِ وَتَقُولُوا سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي سَخَّرَ لَنَا هَٰذَا وَمَا كُنَّا لَهُ مُقْرِنِينَ

 And He Who created pairs of all things, and made for you of the ships and the cattle what you ride on. That you may firmly sit on their backs, then remember the favor of your Lord when you are firmly seated thereon, and say: Glory be to Him Who made this subservient to us and we were not able to do it. (43:12-13)

So I would like to ask you to share Arabic text of this Hadith and its references. 

Maybe women were seated on a howdah and men were to pull the animal as brother @Ashvazsanghe said.

image.png.2604b4526dd678c18c3fd4d80a26fa44.png 

I got it from a website called “al-Islam”, on a page regarding the signs of the Day of Judgement (by Sayyid Akhtar Rizvi). It is narrated from Ibn Abbas but I don’t know about the authenticity or the Arabic. Hope some of the other sisters / brothers can help you with that.

https://www.al-Islam.org/day-of-judgement-Sayyid-akhtar-Rizvi/part-3-some-signs-day-resurrection

Wsalam

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On 3/3/2020 at 9:16 PM, Guest diha said:

I'm sorry? why is this considered haram. I live in the Netherlands and it is well known that everyone here rides a bike, including me, a woman. sorry this seems like a joke question to me? 

Salam it highly depends on society but before renaissance riding on everything like horse or other personal transportation vehicles was religiously illegal that women only allowed to move with well covered couches & etc under heavy veil that after renaissance & leaving Christian rules aside rules of using the transport vehicle for women was different than men like style riding horse for women was different than men but it changed by feminism & other man made rules.

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8 hours ago, Ali.Isa said:

A woman 'human' bicycling: The outer appearance if the outfit is not glued in the body and men sees it as a skin colored woman and considering not.. it.. cloths.. that is problem for her spiritual will being and her vitality. So these sporty cloths are more a problem for her than bicycling.

Do you really think that a Muslim woman would wear these narrow fitting Tour d´France bicycling outfits? I don't go swimming in a bikini. I wear a modest swimsuit when swimming. Why would it be different when bicycling?

8 hours ago, Ali.Isa said:

Now lets say its good clothes; what happens at the end of the bicycling journey; has she got more shyness and chastity as virtue or she loses it or already has lost alot and not everything and feels like a men conquering the world not the house to manage the man that tries to conquer the actual world, by supporting him.

Is bicycling about conquering the world? I drive the bicycle for three reasons. 1. as a means of transportation. 2. for fitness so that I will not get overweight, and 3. as leisure. I like cycling in the woods listening to the birds and watching the nature.

8 hours ago, Ali.Isa said:

Lets say thousand square meter for each woman that is married

I do not live in a palace in Dubai so I don't have thousand square meter to cycle around on inside my apartment. I only have 71 m2, so there wouldn't be much room til drive on.

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