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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Shahrukh K

What do you believe are the main things that make you a Muslim.

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40 minutes ago, Cool said:

Its not a drama going on here. When Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has called believers as "Ya ayyuhallathina amanu" it means "those" who believe in Him. And "those" are someones other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Al-Khaliq too, if we follow your line of reasoning, that would take us to the statement that "there is no Khaliq but Al-Khaliq." But why then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has used the name "Ahsan ul khaliqeen" for Himself?  
 

same reason why God mentions things which are other than God, like the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the People, etc etc. 

All this is an acknowledgment of all that which appears to be other than God.  

40 minutes ago, Cool said:

 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the granter of "amn", are you sure He himself is on the receiving end too? If there is no mo'min but Al-Mo"min (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) then who are the ones whose emaan increases when verses are recited to them? 

This is because it is a fact that there appears to be mumineen who are other than God.  

 

40 minutes ago, Cool said:

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Our objective is not to get rid of what appears to be other than God.

Our objective is to see what is other than God as nothing but an appearance.  
 

Appearance of what? 

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8 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

same reason why God mentions things which are other than God, like the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the People, etc etc. 

All this is an acknowledgment of all that which appears to be other than God.  

Which of them qualify as khaliq?

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31 minutes ago, Cool said:

Appearance of what? 

A creation is an appearance, exists only in the mind of the perceiver, as a conjured up phantom, causing consternation to the perceiver, who is himself an effect of the process.

Thus, when you attain Salvation, you will know that you have been restored back to your original state.

That you never left it at any time.
And what happened in between was a myth.
Since you are a myth.
You will have to lose yourself.
That is why Qur'an says;
Faqtulu Anfusakum
You are a myth, the world is a myth, and your problem too is a myth.
Thus the scriptures, sympathetically treat you with your fictional existence in the Universe.


 

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10 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

A creation is an appearance, exists only in the mind of the perceiver, as a conjured up phantom, causing consternation to the perceiver, who is himself an effect of the process.

Thus, when you attain Salvation, you will know that you have been restored back to your original state.

That you never left it at any time.
And what happened in between was a myth.
Since you are a myth.
You will have to lose yourself.
That is why Qur'an says;
Faqtulu Anfusakum
You are a myth, the world is a myth, and your problem too is a myth.
Thus the scriptures, sympathetically treat you with your fictional existence in the Universe.


 

I would be curious to know if it is possible to translate “Faqtulu Anfuakum” as Master (Really and Thoroughly Know) yourselves!  
 

image.jpeg.8f1c042294a99b88e671b30625611cdd.jpeg

isn’t that interesting!

so we are not supposed to “kill” the ego self because the ego self doesn’t exist to begin with.  Ego self is not a thing, it is a misidentification / an ignorance!  What we misidentify with exists (or more accurately, appears to exist)! (Like this body, this mind etc etc).  This or that appears to exist, but our ego does not exist since is simply an ignorance or an activity of misidentifying the true and real Self for this or that object that appears to be real.  So our goal is not to kill our ego (for this is a vain and impossible pursuit)  but rather the goal is to really and truly know our Self!  
 

This distinction or nuance is important.  One who is interested in destroying ignorance, destroying ego... and the other is to simply know the Truth/ Self (which is not the opposite of ignorance!!!)!  
the former is insincere.  The latter is sincere.  The former is insincere because it is based on duality selfishness.  One should not begin or have their starting point as ignorance (that they then need to get rid off).  A sincere intention actually doesn’t have a “starting” point!  Because starting implies an end point (like a journey or a seeking).  Anything you seek is based on ignorance.  Marifa is a circle (the beginning point is it’s end point,  marifa is not a linear thing.  
 

a very important distinction to be made here.  A very subtle nuance.


 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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14 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

You are just deceiving yourself that you are following Din Al-Fitrat.  It is dogmatism.  :)

Salam,

I am going to take into consideration your remarks seriously and review myself to find if I am really deceiving myself or whether if there is any dogmatism. 

Wassalam. 

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11 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

A creation is an appearance, exists only in the mind of the perceiver,

Salam,

Assuming creation as illusion has its own repercussions.

 

1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

I would be curious to know if it is possible to translate “Faqtulu Anfuakum” as Master (Really and Thoroughly Know) yourselves!  

Problem in that case would be the verse which says "Then we raised you after your death that you may give thanks" (2:56) 

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15 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

Our objective is not to get rid of what appears to be other than God.

Our objective is to see what is other than God as nothing but an appearance.  
 

    

Monotheism

 

Imam al-Hadi [a] said,

"My God,
The delusions of the deluded are lost,
And the limit of the delimiters falls short,
And the description of the describers has faded,
And the sayings of the transgressors have vanished
From comprehending the wonder of Your work,
Or attaining a maturity in understanding Your highness,
For You are in a position that will never end,
And eyes neither fall upon You in gesture or in meaning.
Far removed, far removed [from understanding],

O my First! O my Only! O my Unique!
You are elevated in highness with the glory of greatness,
And You are raised beyond every trough
And the end of the might of pride."

حدثنا علي بن أحمد بن محمد بن عمران الدقاق رحمه الله، قال: حدثنا محمد بن أبي عبد الله الكوفي، قال: حدثني محمد بن جعفر البغدادي، عن سهل بن زياد، عن أبي الحسن علي بن محمد عليهما السلام، أنه قال: (إلهي تاهت أوهام المتوهمين وقصر طرف الطارفين، وتلاشت أوصاف الواصفين، واضمحلت أقاويل المبطلين عن الدرك لعجيب شأنك، أو الوقوع بالبلوغ إلى علوك (1) فأنت في المكان الذي لا يتناهى (2) ولم تقع عليك عيون بإشارة ولا عبارة (3) هيهات ثم هيهات، يا أولي، يا وحداني، يافرداني (4) شمخت في العلو بعز الكبر، وارتفعت من وراء كل غورة ونهاية بجبروت الفخر).

(Kitab al-Tawhid by Shaykh as-Saduq, page 66)

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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On 2/27/2020 at 9:11 PM, eThErEaL said:

Like I said, you appear to be taking religion a bit too seriously when in fact it is supposed to be fun!  (I am guilty of this too , especially when I get upset about Shias who curse, do you see how upset I get? “I even told someone... “you will see what will happen on the Day of Judgement!”  Lol). This world is truly something to laugh at.

I seek refuge in Allah from Satan the repelled (rajeem).   

Imam al-Hadi [a] said, "'Repelled' means that he is repelled by curses, and dismissed from goodly positions. A believer does not mention him except that he curses him. Surely, in the foreknowledge of Allah, when the Qa'im appears, there will not remain a believer in his time except that he will repel Satan with stones, just as they would repel him with curses before."     1 - حدثنا محمد بن أحمد الشيباني (1) - رضي الله عنه - قال: حدثنا محمد بن أبي عبد الله الكوفي. قال: حدثنا سهل بن زياد، عن عبد العظيم بن عبد الله الحسني، قال: سمعت أبا الحسن علي بن محمد العسكري عليهم السلام يقول: معنى الرجيم أنه مرجوم باللعن، مطرود من مواضع الخير، لا يذكره مؤمن إلا لعنه، وأن في علم الله السابق أنه إذا خرج القائم عليه السلام لا يبقى مؤمن في زمانه إلا رجمه بالحجارة كما كان قبل ذلك مرجوما باللعن.    (Ma`ani al-Akhbar)

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235058737-Imam-Ali-the-guide/?tab=comments#comment-3269081

 

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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I seek refuge in Allah from Satan the repelled (rajeem).   

I seek refuge in the protective forces of the Names of Allah comprising my Essence from impulses generated by the accursed and rejected (rajim) Satan, which, as a result of preconditioning, causes our sense of illusion to perceive the existent as non-existent and the non-existent as existent, thereby making man believe he is an independent being and body outside the Names of Allah, 
directing man to the idea of an external deity-God in the heavens.

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9 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

Salam,

Assuming creation as illusion has its own repercussions.

 

Problem in that case would be the verse which says "Then we raised you after your death that you may give thanks" (2:56) 

Actually, when the entire verses is read it makes a lot more sense.  it is such a profound verse (I have put my own rephrasing in parenthesis based on the Arabic etymologies and my What I understand, but I have left the original translation for comparison).  It could still be fine tuned to reflect the grammar.  But if I reflect the grammar the English will be compromised and will be very hard to understand.  But this is a good starting point at least.  It hopefully may get the idea across.  
 

Just as an intro:  The function of Moses (عليه السلام) is a liberator.  He delivers people into the promised land or from the  tyranny of Firown  (who in turn symbolizes the one who embodies the most severe form of shirk or Misidentification of the Self).  Moses delivers us from the tyranny of such ignorance.  

image.thumb.jpeg.fa67c4bd8146f5c53117659a0d32d354.jpeg

And recall when Moses said to his people, "O my people, indeed you have wronged yourselves (You are in ignorant darkness with respect to the understanding of your Self) by your taking of the calf for worship (by you taking or misidentifying your Self with this or that thing - like your feelings, thoughts, body or mind etc etc). So repent (So, turn your attentiveness toward) to your Creator (Toward your Origin and not toward those things which originated and which you misidentify your Self with) and kill yourselves (thoroughly know your Self by throughly knowing what you are not). That is best for all of you in the sight of (with respect to) your Creator (your Origin)." Then He accepted your repentance (Your Original Self is eternally Turned to you in that the Self is Eternally Here and Now and always available); indeed, He is the Accepting of repentance (Indeed He is Eternally Turned to us), the Merciful (Lovingly Merciful).

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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