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Shahrukh K

What do you believe are the main things that make you a Muslim.

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Guest ICurse

Hate of Iblis and his followers.  Anyone telling you otherwise, is a Monafiq, not a Muslim.

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Guest Pschological Warfare
20 hours ago, Shahrukh K said:

What do you believe are the main things that make you a Muslim ?

Wilayat of Amir al-Muminin(Commander of the Faithful), Imam al-Muttaqeen(Leader of the Pious), Hujjah of Allah(عزّ وجلّ)(Proof of Allah(عزّ وجلّ), Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib(عليه السلام).

Let's assume All the believers((In Prophet Isa(as)(Jesus) and Prophet Musa(as)(Moses)) in The God, and Prophets were to ALL agree to believe in Muhammad Al-Mustafa (p.b.u.h.a.h.p.p). 

Meaning All the Christians/Jews were to become Muslims and testify to The God and his last Messenger. 

La iIaaha illal-Laah: There is no God but Allah(عزّ وجلّ).
Muhammadur Rasulul-Laah: Muhammad Mustafa (p.b.u.h.a.h.p.p) is the Messenger of Allah(عزّ وجلّ).

*There will still be one divisive factor.

Aliyun waliyul-Lah: Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the Wali of Allah(عزّ وجلّ).
Wasi-yu-Rasulil-Laah: Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the successor of the Prophet(p.b.u.h.a.h.p.p).

In Essence, Wilayat is the core principle which till still keep them divided. Aim of Islam for the Humanity will still be far from been achieved. ( Unity ).

The Wilayat of the last Muhammad, "the Just leader of Humanity" will still be contested. 

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Divine requirement 

On 2/22/2020 at 10:54 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Belief in Allah, Qur'an, Day of Judgement, all the Prophets.

Manmade requirement

On 2/22/2020 at 2:23 PM, Guest Pschological Warfare said:

Aliyun waliyul-Lah: Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the Wali of Allah(عزّ وجلّ).
Wasi-yu-Rasulil-Laah: Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the successor of the Prophet(p.b.u.h.a.h.p.p).

In Essence, Wilayat is the core principle which till still keep them divided. Aim of Islam for the Humanity will still be far from been achieved. ( Unity ).

 

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On 2/24/2020 at 12:35 PM, eThErEaL said:

And to clarify:

Being truly happy and content does NOT involve “doing anything”.  

Salam,

I don't know why but some times it gives me the impression that your statements are colliding with the clear verses of Qur'an, the above statement & the following:
 

21 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

All that is required to be a Muslim... I mean

a Muslim hypocrite.

Now lets see a verse:
 

Quote

إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَرْتَابُوا وَجَاهَدُوا بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنْفُسِهِمْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الصَّادِقُونَ {15}

[Shakir 49:15] The believers are only those who believe in Allah and His Messenger then they doubt not and struggle hard with their wealth and their lives in the way of Allah; they are the truthful ones.
[Pickthal 49:15] The (true) believers are those only who believe in Allah and His messenger and afterward doubt not, but strive with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah. Such are the sincere.
[Yusufali 49:15] Only those are Believers who have believed in Allah and His Messenger, and have never since doubted, but have striven with their belongings and their persons in the Cause of Allah: Such are the sincere ones.

How do you explain "does not involve doing anything" of your statement, keeping in view the above verse which suggests doing something(s) like (a) believe (b) doubt not (c) striving etc?

Wassalam

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22 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

Salam,

I don't know why but some times it gives me the impression that your statements are colliding with the clear verses of Qur'an, the above statement & the following:
 

Now lets see a verse:
 

How do you explain "does not involve doing anything" of your statement, keeping in view the above verse which suggests doing something(s) like (a) believe (b) doubt not (c) striving etc?

Wassalam

It is impossible for “doing” not to happen. This needs to be made clear.  Even if one is determined to not move his limbs and to not get up and walk, he is still doing something (something other than that, either he is sitting, laying down, standing still etc etc).  

So what do I mean by: “Not doing anything” if it is impossible to not do anything!???

what I mean is that there is no sense of “person, individual, or separate independent entity, or ego” that is doing anything.  

When a young boy or a young man loves to play a particular sport, when he is seen running and the kicking and jumping and panting very hard and when you see him determined to win the game he is in love with, all this is done effortlessly.  He is not “forcing” himself to play the sport!  

“I have to do”, “I better do”,  “I should do.” Are statements made by an individual and as such, necessarily involve hypocrisy.  If an action results from selflessness (if it comes from or is inspired from God -if it flows from his primordial nature or Fitrah) then there would be absolutely no resistance or friction, but rather, it would “flow” forth like water.  Water flows because of its pure (sincere) nature.  This is what true iman is.  “Trying hard”, in the verse was mentioned after “iman” was mentioned.  Trying hard happens effortlessly when there is no ego involved.  Only “a person or ego” finds a resistance in doing something.  Only persons or egos erroneously believe that they can cause results to happen by putting in effort.  But God has made it very clear that our individual efforts are worthless.  It is is only our sincerity of intention that matters.  And it is the the sincere who knows that “his actions” are worthless.  It is only the sincere who attribute all goodness and praise that may appear through their hands to God (and not to themselves).  Remember the verse in the Qur'an,  it is not you who thew when you threw, but God who threw”.  

 

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33 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

 It is only the sincere who attribute all goodness and praise that may appear through their hands to God (and not to themselves).  Remember the verse in the Qur'an,  it is not you who thew when you threw, but God who threw”.  

Salam, 

I need further explanations, can we say that "it is not we who believe in Allah & His messenger, it is God who believe in Himself & on His messenger?" 
 

23 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ

And how can we say that while there are verses in Qur'an where the believers have said the following words several times:
 

رَّبَّنَا إِنَّنَا سَمِعْنَا مُنَادِيًا يُنَادِي لِلإِيمَانِ أَنْ آمِنُواْ بِرَبِّكُمْ فَآمَنَّا رَبَّنَا فَاغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا وَكَفِّرْ عَنَّا سَيِّئَاتِنَا وَتَوَفَّنَا مَعَ الأبْرَارِ
3:193)  Our Lord! surely we have heard a preacher calling to the faith, saying: Believe in your Lord, so we did believe; Our Lord! forgive us therefore our faults, and cover our evil deeds and make us die with the righteous.

وَإِذْ أَوْحَيْتُ إِلَى الْحَوَارِيِّينَ أَنْ آمِنُوا بِي وَبِرَسُولِي قَالُوا آمَنَّا وَاشْهَدْ بِأَنَّنَا مُسْلِمُونَ 
5:111) And when I revealed to the disciples, saying, Believe in Me and My messenger, they said: We believe and bear witness that we submit (ourselves).

Wait, I need to edit this one as I remember another verse which says this: 

10:100)  And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand.

Are you pointing towards the fact that our action of believing in Him too requires His approval & permission? 

Edited by Logic1234

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17 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Salam, 

I need further explanations, can we say that "it is not we who believe in Allah & His messenger, it is God who believe in Himself & on His messenger?" 

“Iman” is not belief.  “Iman” is an understanding of the Real by the Real.  It is something you stand on, it doesn’t stand on you.  Allah is “Al-Mumin” the source of Iman.  By participating in the reality of Al-mumin is one considered a mumin.  But just there is no God but God, just as there is no life but Al-Hay and no real but al-Haq, so also there is no mumin but Al-Mumin.  

 

Quote

And how can we say that while there are verses in Qur'an where the believers have said the following words several times:
 

رَّبَّنَا إِنَّنَا سَمِعْنَا مُنَادِيًا يُنَادِي لِلإِيمَانِ أَنْ آمِنُواْ بِرَبِّكُمْ فَآمَنَّا رَبَّنَا فَاغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا وَكَفِّرْ عَنَّا سَيِّئَاتِنَا وَتَوَفَّنَا مَعَ الأبْرَارِ
3:193)  Our Lord! surely we have heard a preacher calling to the faith, saying: Believe in your Lord, so we did believe; Our Lord! forgive us therefore our faults, and cover our evil deeds and make us die with the righteous.

I don’t see a problem so long as one knows that there is no mumin but Al-Mumin!  God gives life, and yet, there is none alive but the All-Living.  There is NO duality between this and that, between this limited life and the unlimited Life.  The irreconcilable duality is only in our discriminating mind/ego.  The fact of the matter is there is neither the limited, nor the unlimited, or one can say, the limited is not other than the unlimited just as the limited waves of the ocean are not other than the vast and unlimited ocean.  And yet one can speak of waves and one can speak of the ocean.  

Quote



وَإِذْ أَوْحَيْتُ إِلَى الْحَوَارِيِّينَ أَنْ آمِنُوا بِي وَبِرَسُولِي قَالُوا آمَنَّا وَاشْهَدْ بِأَنَّنَا مُسْلِمُونَ 
5:111) And when I revealed to the disciples, saying, Believe in Me and My messenger, they said: We believe and bear witness that we submit (ourselves).
 

I don’t see any problem here!  We can speak of waves and we can speak of the ocean and yet the waves (inasmuch as they are qualified with WATER) are none other than the ocean.  So also, creation, inasmuch as they are qualified with positive attributes are none other than God!  

Edited by eThErEaL

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@eThErEaL, I have edited my post and have added another verse there. I think you have missed it. 
 

13 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

 So also, creation, inasmuch as they are qualified with positive attributes are none other than God!  

Are we not giving up the "obligatory precaution" here? I do think we need to maintain the limits. 

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16 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

“Iman” is not belief.  “Iman” is an understanding of the Real by the Real.  It is something you stand on, it doesn’t stand on you.  Allah is “Al-Mumin” the source of Iman.  By participating in the reality of Al-mumin is one considered a mumin.  But just there is no God but God, just as there is no life but Al-Hay and no real but al-Haq, so also there is no mumin but Al-Mumin.  

:) May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant you the best reward for these true words. 

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1 hour ago, Logic1234 said:

Are you pointing towards the fact that our action of believing in Him too requires His approval & permission? 
 

more importantly, you are taking yourself too seriously, when in fact, all this is a show, this theatrical play of existence (of good and evil, of hero vs villain) is all about God’s display of His Majestic and Beautiful Attributes (it is not to be taken personally), it is not about your personal performance (for the performance will happen just as everything else happens, but it isn’t about that) .  The movie is just an enjoyment, it is for you to take pleasure in watching it in a detached way, you don’t have to take the movie seriously by being so involved in the problems of the characters that you forget that you are watching a movie (or that you forget that it is JUST a movie!).  

It is about God.  Not about you.  It was never about you and will never be about you.  It is always and forever about the One, the Real, God.  Wherever you turn, there is His Face (not your face).

Edited by eThErEaL

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Just now, eThErEaL said:

Which obligatory precaution?

As per a verse of Qur'an, Fir'on claimed that he is the lord the highest (rabbokum ul a'ala) and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) punished him. 

 

44 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So also, creation, inasmuch as they are qualified with positive attributes are none other than God!

The relationship of Khaliq o Makhlooq would remain intact in anyway. 

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41 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

As per a verse of Qur'an, Fir'on claimed that he is the lord the highest (rabbokum ul a'ala) and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) punished him. 

 

The relationship of Khaliq o Makhlooq would remain intact in anyway. 

The wave is always a wave.  And the ocean is always the ocean.  The slave is always a slave and the Lord is always the Lord.   And yet... this duality can only be appreciated in a non-dual way inasmuch as the wave is nothing in itself except that all the water that makes it exist is nothing but the water of the ocean.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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10 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

As per a verse of Qur'an, Fir'on claimed that he is the lord the highest (rabbokum ul a'ala) and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) punished him.

Yes, but we are not claiming that!  :)

but more importantly, what is this “obligatory precaution” stuff to be concerned about?  Any intelligent person doesn’t CARE about “obligatory precaution” none sense.  One should only care if they are in front of fanatic extremists who are hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees with them.  Then yes!  Obligatory precaution indeed!  Lol

is God up in the sky with a sniper waiting for us to cross a red line?  Lol

of course NOT!  Common man!  That is not who God is!  God is loving and merciful and compassionate.  He doesn’t punish people for speaking the Truth!!!!

Like I said, you appear to be taking religion a bit too seriously when in fact it is supposed to be fun!  (I am guilty of this too , especially when I get upset about Shias who curse, do you see how upset I get? “I even told someone... “you will see what will happen on the Day of Judgement!”  Lol). This world is truly something to laugh at.

Edited by eThErEaL

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12 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

but more importantly, what is this “obligatory precaution” stuff to be concerned about?  Any intelligent person doesn’t CARE about “obligatory precaution” none sense.  One should only care if they are in front of fanatic extremists who are hell bent on killing anyone who disagrees with them.  Then yes!  Obligatory precaution indeed!  Lol

Salam, 

Let me show you what exactly "obligatory precaution" none sense is. Three group of verses of Qur'an refers to indispensability of precaution (ihtiyaat) and the first group of these verses are the ones which point to forbidding talking about something without having knowledge: 

وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ إِنَّ السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْئُولًا {36}

[Shakir 17:36] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

قُلْ إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَالْإِثْمَ وَالْبَغْيَ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ وَأَنْ تُشْرِكُوا بِاللَّهِ مَا لَمْ يُنَزِّلْ بِهِ سُلْطَانًا وَأَنْ تَقُولُوا عَلَى اللَّهِ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ {33}

[Shakir 7:33] Say: My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know.

Second group refers to those verses in which pointed to forbidding the annihilation of souls of human:

وَأَنْفِقُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلَا تُلْقُوا بِأَيْدِيكُمْ إِلَى التَّهْلُكَةِ ۛ وَأَحْسِنُوا ۛ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {195}

[Shakir 2:195] And spend in the way of Allah and cast not yourselves to perdition with your own hands, and do good (to others); surely Allah loves the doers of good.

Third group refers to those verses that in which pointed to order to taqwa (avoiding):

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ وَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَأَنْتُمْ مُسْلِمُونَ {102}

[Shakir 3:102] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah with the care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslims.

فَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ مَا اسْتَطَعْتُمْ وَاسْمَعُوا وَأَطِيعُوا وَأَنْفِقُوا خَيْرًا لِأَنْفُسِكُمْ ۗ وَمَنْ يُوقَ شُحَّ نَفْسِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ {16}

[Shakir 64:16] Therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah as much as you can, and hear and obey and spend, it is better for your souls; and whoever is saved from the greediness of his soul, these it is that are the successful.
 

12 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

is God up in the sky with a sniper waiting for us to cross a red line?  Lol

of course NOT!  Common man!  That is not who God is!  God is loving and merciful and compassionate.  He doesn’t punish people for speaking the Truth!!!!

Although I will not say that He is sitting up in the sky with a sniper waiting for us to cross a red line, but I will certainly not deny the punishment which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has promised for some of His creation. He certainly not punish people for speaking the truth.

Now is it the "truth" that "creation, inasmuch as they are qualified with positive attributes are none other than God!". This statement is only applicable to the "Awliya Allah" I.e., those to whom He has granted the authority I.e., the Wilayah and have created them for our guidance and made obligatory on us their obedience. Yet, we will not say that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is God (وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ)  

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اعْبُدُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ {21}

[Shakir 2:21] O men! serve your Lord Who created you and those before you so that you may guard (against evil).

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمْ وَاخْشَوْا يَوْمًا لَا يَجْزِي وَالِدٌ عَنْ وَلَدِهِ وَلَا مَوْلُودٌ هُوَ جَازٍ عَنْ وَالِدِهِ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقٌّ ۖ فَلَا تَغُرَّنَّكُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا وَلَا يَغُرَّنَّكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الْغَرُورُ {33}

[Shakir 31:33] O people! guard against (the punishment of) your Lord and dread the day when a father shall not make any satisfaction for his son, nor shall the child be the maker of any satisfaction for his father; surely the promise of Allah is true, therefore let not this world's life deceive you, nor let the arch-deceiver deceive you in respect of Allah.

 

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55 minutes ago, Logic1234 said:

Salam, 

Let me show you what exactly "obligatory precaution" none sense is. Three group of verses of Qur'an refers to indispensability of precaution (ihtiyaat) and the first group of these verses are the ones which point to forbidding talking about something without having knowledge: 

وَلَا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ ۚ إِنَّ السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ كُلُّ أُولَٰئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْئُولًا {36}

[Shakir 17:36] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

قُلْ إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَالْإِثْمَ وَالْبَغْيَ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ وَأَنْ تُشْرِكُوا بِاللَّهِ مَا لَمْ يُنَزِّلْ بِهِ سُلْطَانًا وَأَنْ تَقُولُوا عَلَى اللَّهِ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ {33}

[Shakir 7:33] Say: My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know.

Second group refers to those verses in which pointed to forbidding the annihilation of souls of human:

وَأَنْفِقُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلَا تُلْقُوا بِأَيْدِيكُمْ إِلَى التَّهْلُكَةِ ۛ وَأَحْسِنُوا ۛ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {195}

[Shakir 2:195] And spend in the way of Allah and cast not yourselves to perdition with your own hands, and do good (to others); surely Allah loves the doers of good.

Third group refers to those verses that in which pointed to order to taqwa (avoiding):

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ وَلَا تَمُوتُنَّ إِلَّا وَأَنْتُمْ مُسْلِمُونَ {102}

[Shakir 3:102] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah with the care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslims.

فَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ مَا اسْتَطَعْتُمْ وَاسْمَعُوا وَأَطِيعُوا وَأَنْفِقُوا خَيْرًا لِأَنْفُسِكُمْ ۗ وَمَنْ يُوقَ شُحَّ نَفْسِهِ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ {16}

[Shakir 64:16] Therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah as much as you can, and hear and obey and spend, it is better for your souls; and whoever is saved from the greediness of his soul, these it is that are the successful.
 

Although I will not say that He is sitting up in the sky with a sniper waiting for us to cross a red line, but I will certainly not deny the punishment which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has promised for some of His creation. He certainly not punish people for speaking the truth.

Now is it the "truth" that "creation, inasmuch as they are qualified with positive attributes are none other than God!". This statement is only applicable to the "Awliya Allah" I.e., those to whom He has granted the authority I.e., the Wilayah and have created them for our guidance and made obligatory on us their obedience. Yet, we will not say that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is God (وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلاَّ رَسُولٌ)  

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اعْبُدُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ {21}

[Shakir 2:21] O men! serve your Lord Who created you and those before you so that you may guard (against evil).

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمْ وَاخْشَوْا يَوْمًا لَا يَجْزِي وَالِدٌ عَنْ وَلَدِهِ وَلَا مَوْلُودٌ هُوَ جَازٍ عَنْ وَالِدِهِ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ وَعْدَ اللَّهِ حَقٌّ ۖ فَلَا تَغُرَّنَّكُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا وَلَا يَغُرَّنَّكُمْ بِاللَّهِ الْغَرُورُ {33}

[Shakir 31:33] O people! guard against (the punishment of) your Lord and dread the day when a father shall not make any satisfaction for his son, nor shall the child be the maker of any satisfaction for his father; surely the promise of Allah is true, therefore let not this world's life deceive you, nor let the arch-deceiver deceive you in respect of Allah.

 

I am sorry, but you don’t seem to be getting the point or understanding something.  

you seem to have a lot of beliefs about things which won’t help you.  They are limiting you and causing you to be miserable.  You seem to be in prisoner by the religion you follow.  Instead of it liberating you, you are being chained by it.

good luck with your approach.  


 

 


 

Edited by eThErEaL

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

You seem to be in prisoner by the religion you follow.  Instead of it liberating you, you are being chained by it.

I follow the religion which is "deen-e-fitrat" and I find myself under obligation. I cannot disconnect myself from those obligations otherwise I would be doomed. What seems "prison" & "chains" to you are my dependence upon the One, the Mighty, the Wise. 

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6 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

I follow the religion which is "deen-e-fitrat" and I find myself under obligation. I cannot disconnect myself from those obligations otherwise I would be doomed. What seems "prison" & "chains" to you are my dependence upon the One, the Mighty, the Wise. 

You are just deceiving yourself that you are following Din Al-Fitrat.  It is dogmatism.  :)

 

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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On 2/21/2020 at 11:14 PM, Shahrukh K said:

What do you believe are the main things that make you a Muslim ?

You know as much as it really pains me to say this, I believe the key component that drives me to be a Muslim is the fact that I "born a Muslim". As having grown up in that type of life I believe it has been programmed into me to automatically "be a Muslim" without giving it any thought. I'm not going to necessarily call that a weakness, but I do see how myself and others use that as an excuse to not educate ourselves properly on Islam.

That's why I hold such a high level of respect and honor for a Revert. To me a Revert is someone who has done the research and actively made the decision to embrace Islam based on its merits. Whereas people like me just take it for granted that we're Muslims automatically and lack in the necessary education to consider ourselves proper Muslims or to engage in a high end discussion in any meaningful manner. 

In all honesty, I'm sure there are just as many advantages as there are disadvantages to either being born a Muslim or embracing Islam through reversion. I just place a higher level of respect on someone who has acquired the proper level of Islamic knowledge to follow the tenets and ideals of Islam in the proper manner regardless of they were born into Islam or they chose to embrace it. 

On a side note, I really hate using the term Revert because it denotes a "difference" between Muslims. It doesn't matter when or how you chose Islam, but the fact that you have embraced it should be the only quantifier used. A Revert is as much my Brother/Sister in Islam, as someone who's ancestors reverted to Islam many generations ago. A Muslim is a Muslim.

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On 2/27/2020 at 10:56 AM, Logic1234 said:

can we say that "it is not we who believe in Allah & His messenger, it is God who believe in Himself & on His messenger?"

Its not a drama going on here. When Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has called believers as "Ya ayyuhallathina amanu" it means "those" who believe in Him. And "those" are someones other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

On 2/27/2020 at 11:13 AM, eThErEaL said:

But just there is no God but God, just as there is no life but Al-Hay and no real but al-Haq, so also there is no mumin but Al-Mumin

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Al-Khaliq too, if we follow your line of reasoning, that would take us to the statement that "there is no Khaliq but Al-Khaliq." But why then Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has used the name "Ahsan ul khaliqeen" for Himself?  

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the granter of "amn", are you sure He himself is on the receiving end too? If there is no mo'min but Al-Mo"min (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) then who are the ones whose emaan increases when verses are recited to them? 

Surah Al-Anfal, Verse 2:
إِنَّمَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الَّذِينَ إِذَا ذُكِرَ اللَّهُ وَجِلَتْ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَإِذَا تُلِيَتْ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُهُ زَادَتْهُمْ إِيمَانًا وَعَلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ يَتَوَكَّلُونَ

Those only are believers whose hearts become full of fear when Allah is mentioned, and when His communications are recited to them they increase them in faith, and in their Lord do they trust.
(English - Shakir)

 

 

Edited by Cool

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