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In the Name of God بسم الله
Mohammad313Ali

Imam Sadiq Scientific contributions - True or False?

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An excellent article depicting the scientific genius of our sixth Imam wherein it shows the many scientific, social, and philosophical contributions that he ((عليه السلام)) had proposed centuries before their discovery or establishment within the realm of science and academia.

Topics that pertain to the expansion and contraption of the universe, the theory of light and rays, the hydrogen atom, the elements on Earth, and many more scientific advances introduced and explained by the Holy Imam, which truly leave someone dumbfounded and in awe.

however, as much as one wishes to believe every word that is contained within the book or article, there is a heightened lack of credibility when it comes to references and evidences backing the profound claims made within the article.

Here is the article: https://www.al-Islam.org/articles/Imam-jafar-al-sadiqs-contribution-sciences-hasnain-mohamedali

I highly recommend reading it as it won’t take more then twenty minutes of your time and is a very valuable piece of work, unfortunately lacking references, footnotes, or anything that can add credibility to what is being said objectively.

as much as I and am sure everyone else adores our Imam and knows such knowledge and advancements are not far from his eminence for he indeed as a beacon of knowledge and an illuminating light; there nonetheless necessitates a need for unquestionable and undeniable proof that substantiates what the article is saying.

It would be immensely appreciated if any of the brothers/sisters can provide a reference or any form of tangible evidence that can substantiate the articles profound claims.

Here I will provide a critique by an individual who has read the Book completely and raised his objections from a western and non biased standpoint so to speak, so as to perhaps aid into taking into consideration the concern by readers who may be intrigued by the work, but like many require concise and adequate sources, references, and evidence.

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The introduction to this book states on page 5 that it's a translation of a Persian work, which is in its turn supposedly a translation of part of a French "thesis" published by a "Research Committee of Strasbourg, France" (pages 5 and 17). Frustratingly, the book contains no proper bibliographical references, either to the Persian work translated, or to the original French work which is supposedly its ultimate source, and this has made it difficult to trace the identity of the latter.

On page 5 of the book, Ali Mirza, the English translator, gives "Maghze Mutafakkir Jehan Shia" as a transliteration of the Persian title into the Latin alphabet, and on page 20, he gives "Zabih Ullah Mansuri" as the transliteration of the name of the person who supposedly translated the work from French to Persian. The actual title of the work in Persian is (مغز متفکر جهان شیعه امام جعفر صادق (ع ("Maghze Mutafakkir Jehan Shia Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (?)" — the question mark representing a glottal stop, ع ), and its author's name, ذبیح‌الله منصوری , is commonly transliterated into English as Zabiholla Mansuri. A fairly literal translation of the title would be "Mastermind of the Shia world Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم))". One edition of the book has been cited in English as "Zabiholla Mansouri, The Great Thinker of the Shiite World, Imam JafarSadegh, Islamic Studies of Strasburg, JavidanPublicationOrganization, 1982." Mansuri's biography at eminentpersians.net describes him as "easily the most prolific and arguably the most widely read journalist and writer of modern Iran".

Pages 17 to 20 of this book contain a translation of Mansuri's preface. On pages 19 and 20 we find a list of 21 names of some of the members of the "Research Committee" supposedly responsible for producing the French "thesis" from which the text purports to be ultimately derived. This list turns out to be a badly garbled and incomplete copy of the list of participants in the second Colloque d'islamologie de Centre de Recherce d'Histoire des Religions de Strasbourg. Thus, the work misleadingly referred to as a "thesis" could hardly be anything other than the proceedings of this Colloque de Strasbourg.

Practically nothing, however, in this book, beyond a few basic biographical details, can be found in the French work which is its supposed source. In fact, the book is full of ludicrously silly historical claims which are nowhere to be found in the French work, and which flatly contradict well-known facts widely documented in both primary and respected secondary sources. To give just one example, I reproduce here one of the silliest such claims, from Chapter 13, "Rotation of the Earth on its axis" (page 87):
"It was so difficult to comprehend and believe that the Earth rotates on its axis that the eminent French mathematician, Poincare, who died in the year 1912, made fun of this theory. He clearly stated he did not believe the Earth rotates on its own axis."
On the contrary, in his popular work, translated into English as "Science and Hypothesis", Poincare argued that even if the sky had been permanently obscured by a blanket of clouds, scientists would still have eventually come to realise that it must be turning on its axis.

In Mansuri's biography at eminentpersians.net we find a fairly strong clue to the true source of the misinformation contained in this book:
"Maybe the strangest twist in his strange career is the fact that he was known to have published books as translations that were actually his own creations. Their alleged authors were, like the narratives themselves, the figments of his rich imagination. There is also no doubt that on numerous occasions he took a short article and turned it into a book of several hundred pages."
This book would appear to be one of those that were "figments" of Mansuri's "rich imagination".

I don't believe the English translator of Mansuri's book, Kaukab Ali Mirza, can be reasonably accused of complicity in Mansuri's deception. In his unintentionally amusing and ironic introduction he takes the learned scholars of the "Research Committee" to task for supposed "wild speculations and guesswork" and even "misrepresenting historical facts", not realising, of course, that these were all inventions of Mansuri himself, and the scholars participating in the second Colloque d'Islamologie had nothing whatever to do with them.

His original response can be found on: https://www.amazon.com/Jafar-Muhammad-Al-Sadiq-Muslim-Scientist/dp/0969949014/

 

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Lolz, one article lacking reference could mean you can judge a complete personality. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) trained student like Jabir ibn hayan who was chemist, a theologian like Hisham and all Sunni faqih were his students directly or indirectly. Plus had 3000 students and his funeral was the largest. If he did not have such knowledge, was he a king that people 0.6 million came to his funeral. Please search for this, I hope you will find reference for this.

Edited by Flying_Eagle

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Salaam Alikuem @Mohammad313Ali,

Thank you for making this post and the mention. I am ashamed to admit my knowledge in this area is lacking. I will do my best to make some time to refresh and read and will hopefully have some semblance of a thought on this later.

I have no doubt many of our worthy Brothers and Sisters will have many thoughts.

Thank you in advance for your patience with me.

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40 minutes ago, Flying_Eagle said:

Lolz, one article lacking reference could mean you can judge a complete personality. Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) trained student like Jabir ibn hayan who was chemist, a theologian like Hisham and all Sunni faqih were his students directly or indirectly. Plus had 3000 students and his funeral was the largest. If he did not have such knowledge, was he a king that people 0.6 million came to his funeral. Please search for this, I hope you will find reference for this.

Dear brother, I am not at all doubting the knowledge of our holy Imam, but rather in a way also raising the necessity for there to be adequate references and evidences to whatever we attribute to the Holy Imams and the school of the Ahlul Bayt so as to not have the name of Imam Ja’far Al-Sadiq lose touch with third party on lookers.

for example the individual who wrote the response to the article and raised his doubts is of a western background and I am 99% sure if authentic manuscripts were raised or shown to him about our sixth Imam he would have no interest whatsoever of looking at them even if they were drenched with references and evidence.

Therefore it is of the utmost importance to relay the authentic traditions and history of this school of thought with the proportionate credible backing, so as to maintain a solidified and robust foundation for whatever information we may share pertaining to the Imams ((عليه السلام))

If we rely mainly on the anecdotes of the author it can be highly problematic when put under the academic lens, for it does not project the image that we as a school of thought which prides itself with the teachings of the Sixth Imam wish for the world to see.

 

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6 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Dear brother, I am not at all doubting the knowledge of our holy Imam, but rather in a way also raising the necessity for there to be adequate references and evidences to whatever we attribute to the Holy Imams and the school of the Ahlul Bayt so as to not have the name of Imam Ja’far Al-Sadiq lose touch with third party on lookers.

for example the individual who wrote the response to the article and raised his doubts is of a western background and I am 99% sure if authentic manuscripts were raised or shown to him about our sixth Imam he would have no interest whatsoever of looking at them even if they were drenched with references and evidence.

Therefore it is of the utmost importance to relay the authentic traditions and history of this school of thought with the proportionate credible backing, so as to maintain a solidified and robust foundation for whatever information we may share pertaining to the Imams ((عليه السلام))

If we rely mainly on the anecdotes of the author it can be highly problematic when put under the academic lens, for it does not project the image that we as a school of thought which prides itself with the teachings of the Sixth Imam wish for the world to see.

 

The book "The great Muslim scientist and scholar", is a book written upon the research institute of France, rewritten by including various researchers of different nationalities. I have this book in Urdu. It is a tedious task to include all references from different magazines which have been compiled in one book translated from French to English, Urdu and Farsi. Because first book that eastern scholars saw was compiled magazine not individual magazines separately.

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If you are searching for reference, you should buy hard copy and read initial pages for complete description about its references. Besides, you can also read Islamic books about Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) to know about his great personality.

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14 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

Zabiholla Mansuri.

Salam he was good translator & maybe writer from french but he wasn't a researcher but he was expanding books from his imagination such as he could expand a 400 page book to 1000 pages from his expanding that it was based on his imagination & words or ideas he was hearing from others that in this book he may added stories from other scholars in pulpits but because it was looking rational so translator to English , translated it to English. 

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@Mohammad313Ali my friend, I am sorry to say that I don't think I will be able to contribute to this thread in any meaningful way and would not want to derail your thread with my lack of knowledge in this area.

Hopefully our wise and learned Brothers and Sisters will be able to help.

 

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10 minutes ago, funklebits said:

@Mohammad313Ali my friend, I am sorry to say that I don't think I will be able to contribute to this thread in any meaningful way and would not want to derail your thread with my lack of knowledge in this area.

Hopefully our wise and learned Brothers and Sisters will be able to help.

 

Respected brother thank you for your kindness and willingness to even consider responding to this thread, may Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless you and grant you the intercession of the Ahlul Bayt 

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Quote

Theory of transfer of Disease by Rays

Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq ((عليه السلام).) has said that patients suffering from certain diseases emit special types of rays. If these rays fall upon a healthy person, they are apt to make him sick.

This theory was not acceptable to physicians and biologists. They were of the opinion that microbes and viruses were the main cause of many diseases, which were spread by insects, air, water, food and direct and indirect contact with patients.

No one before the Imam, had ever said that diseases were also transferred from one person to the other by means of rays, emitted from patients suffering from certain diseases. This idea was rather ridiculed by the learned people till it was proved to be correct by scientific studies.

Does anyone know what this excerpt from the link refers to?

Edited by Northwest

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22 hours ago, Mohammad313Ali said:

If we rely mainly on the anecdotes of the author it can be highly problematic when put under the academic lens, for it does not project the image that we as a school of thought which prides itself with the teachings of the Sixth Imam wish for the world to see

isn't this ostentation?

Why not use Qur'an as a reference for whatever sciences & any contradictions cleared up?

Who is you (we) as a school of thought for others also within the 12ers refer to themselves as a school of thought?

it is a scientific ish thread, Sabr is also a science, when things go for you or against you.

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6 hours ago, Mzwakhe said:

isn't this ostentation?

Why not use Qur'an as a reference for whatever sciences & any contradictions cleared up?

Who is you (we) as a school of thought for others also within the 12ers refer to themselves as a school of thought?

it is a scientific ish thread, Sabr is also a science, when things go for you or against you.

I am sure that we can all come to a common consensus that it is best when putting forth certain claims (which I am not at all negating) be they scientific, literary, or what may otherwise pertain, should in fact be adequately referenced in order to not alienate others from delving further deep into the teachings of the Imam and this holy school of thought.

for example I can take that same book and replace the name of the Imam with another name, let’s say one that is revered by the Hindus. 

When I as an individual who has little to no knowledge pertaining to the Hindus and their faith search for an article, book, or website of one of their prominent figures and come across such a well organized work with no reference I would then have a misconstrued view towards that individual and the Hindus in general due to the lack of referencing; therefore when introduced to another article, book, or site that does justice to the personage and with adequate reference, I would most likely not be interested in it

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