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In the Name of God بسم الله

Islamic Government

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And you sound like a mouth piece for Iranian government's propaganda machine.  Reading your posts is like reading some childish and laughable press TV article.

I can still contribute to the affairs of Ummah without me creating Government or voting for particular politicians in such a Goverment.

Two types of Shias 1. sit at home, say zikr, discuss fiqh and history all day and night.....this is the sort of Islam that noone has a problem with, not even Muawiyah had a problem with this type o

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On 2/12/2020 at 9:10 PM, root said:

Two types of Shias

1. sit at home, say zikr, discuss fiqh and history all day and night.....this is the sort of Islam that noone has a problem with, not even Muawiyah had a problem with this type of Islam, stay in sajda until your head turns blue, or walk around kabah until your head spins. As long as you don't get involved in people robbing you empty. 

2. fights for the rights of Muslims, in a resistant and revolutionary way, and for this to happen, you need a government and a good and steadfast leader. And to attain this you will have to give blood, and sacrifice, and you will meet with hardships and traitors and still you have to endure. 

Simplified version ofc........but in the end, this is how it is, whether it hurts admitting it or not. 

This is in fact the most 'simplified version' of the divisive rhetoric that's plaguing our Shia communities. 

It's not your way or the highway my friend. There's much more 'resistance' out there other than your ideology; which by the way, does not represent nor is the exclusive spokesperson of the Shia faith, 'whether it hurts admitting it or not'. 

There's many types of Shias not just two. They do many different things as their forms of resistance and fighting injustice. They have different leaders with different ideologies so perhaps instead of the divisive rhetoric, let's try to focus on the commonalities. 

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On 2/18/2020 at 3:04 PM, Moalfas said:

This is in fact the most 'simplified version' of the divisive rhetoric that's plaguing our Shia communities. 

It's not your way or the highway my friend. There's much more 'resistance' out there other than your ideology; which by the way, does not represent nor is the exclusive spokesperson of the Shia faith, 'whether it hurts admitting it or not'. 

There's many types of Shias not just two. They do many different things as their forms of resistance and fighting injustice. They have different leaders with different ideologies so perhaps instead of the divisive rhetoric, let's try to focus on the commonalities. 

Whatever rocks your boat and helps you sleep better at night ;) proof is in the pudding. 

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On 2/18/2020 at 3:04 PM, Moalfas said:

This is in fact the most 'simplified version' of the divisive rhetoric that's plaguing our Shia communities. 

It's not your way or the highway my friend. There's much more 'resistance' out there other than your ideology; which by the way, does not represent nor is the exclusive spokesperson of the Shia faith, 'whether it hurts admitting it or not'. 

There's many types of Shias not just two. They do many different things as their forms of resistance and fighting injustice. They have different leaders with different ideologies so perhaps instead of the divisive rhetoric, let's try to focus on the commonalities. 

Could you tell us more about these other form of "resistances"? 

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3 hours ago, azizaliallah said:

Historically Shia has have avoided politics, and any positions to do with the government. 

Doesn't make it inherently right, and it doesn't mean we can't change. 

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2 hours ago, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

Doesn't make it inherently right, and it doesn't mean we can't change. 

Imam Khomeini changed everything.

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1 hour ago, azizaliallah said:

Imam Khomeini changed everything.

Because the timing was right... and it wasn't just him.

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22 hours ago, root said:

Whatever rocks your boat and helps you sleep better at night ;) proof is in the pudding. 

Everyone will sleep better at night when the divisive rhetoric is nipped in the bud :) 

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22 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Could you tell us more about these other form of "resistances"? 

Any action one takes can be a form of resistance.

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On 2/12/2020 at 3:10 PM, root said:

Two types of Shias

1. sit at home, say zikr, discuss fiqh and history all day and night.....this is the sort of Islam that noone has a problem with, not even Muawiyah had a problem with this type of Islam, stay in sajda until your head turns blue, or walk around kabah until your head spins. As long as you don't get involved in people robbing you empty. 

2. fights for the rights of Muslims, in a resistant and revolutionary way, and for this to happen, you need a government and a good and steadfast leader. And to attain this you will have to give blood, and sacrifice, and you will meet with hardships and traitors and still you have to endure. 

Simplified version ofc........but in the end, this is how it is, whether it hurts admitting it or not. 

I’ve noticed staunch Iran suppoters tend to put things into dichotomies. Any criticism of the Iranian side places you at the other end of the spectrum, as the “false lazy British strand of Shiism.” Us human beings have a tendency to resort to tribalism and that’s what I see here. Makes it easier to place yourself on the right side of history when you oversimplify the situation. 

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11 hours ago, Moalfas said:

Everyone will sleep better at night when the divisive rhetoric is nipped in the bud :) 

Excellent salty argument, keep nipping like this:

Quote

Any action one takes can be a form of resistance.

 

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1 hour ago, Hussain_ said:

I’ve noticed staunch Iran suppoters tend to put things into dichotomies. Any criticism of the Iranian side places you at the other end of the spectrum, as the “false lazy British strand of Shiism.” Us human beings have a tendency to resort to tribalism and that’s what I see here. Makes it easier to place yourself on the right side of history when you oversimplify the situation. 

Sometimes things are dichotomies. Sometimes things are right and wrong and no in between. I'm not going to go through the last 1400 years for you to detail the issue you call oversimplified. If you find it oversimplified then good, that was the intention. 

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Government is mandatory per Qur'an and ahadith.  And judging by revelation is mandatory.

What needs to go out of the window is not Islamic Government, but Taqlid.   And responsibility of judging by revelation falls on every human.  If we aren't interpreting Islam correctly and a person is a disbeliever, and reads Qur'an, it's on them to believe in the Qur'an and interpret Islam correctly and even enlighten all Muslims, not say blame Muslims for misrepresentation.  This is the degree Islam says not to take Taqlid lightly, not even all Muslims can be followed, the only Authority is God and Ahlul Bayt, and as for the former, we have his book still, and as for the latter, we have their sayings but mixed with fabrications.  The way to solve and reach guidance may not be what the Muslims subscribe too.

The marvel of our time Khamanei if you believe in Qur'an, is the political leader of the world but not the religious leader.  I say the world because God is the king and our Imam is in Ghayba, and you must look towards those who best represent Quranic light while he is in ghayba for political leadership if you believe in the authority of Ahlul Bayt in politics, you must support Khamanei, not because Khamanei has any authority in hmself, but because the believers have chosen him as their leader and a way to unify people and use him to articulate the truth in their hearts,  but the believers from Usoolis and his followers are wrong about Taqlid.  Dear Akhbaris,  you are right in so many things, but we need to keep our fort, and Khamenei is the political leader of the world and we must help him transition Iran to an enlightened society where everyone is a complete Marjaa to the whole world and that Iran will reach a stage of true democracy and enlightenment lead by Khamanei.  I don't believe in Taqlid, but I believe those oppose Khamanei well be in hell and those who support will be in paradise and those who are neutral in the war because they are confused but don't have a grain of hate towards the truth and don't seek to oppress, they maybe forgiven.

I am not a muqallid Khamenei but God knows I will sacrifice my life for him in a heart beat.  He is our greatest asset we have at the moment.  And if you can't appreciate our greatest asset, than you are ungrateful, and are the same type of people who would reject the current guidance be it that time Mohammed or Ali or Hassan or Hussain, it doesn't matter, and if you want to prepare the world for the Mahdi, you have to at the very least, recognize the believers and the greatest asset Muslims have at the moment aside from Imam Mahdi, which is Khamanei.

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, root said:

Sometimes things are dichotomies. Sometimes things are right and wrong and no in between. I'm not going to go through the last 1400 years for you to detail the issue you call oversimplified. If you find it oversimplified then good, that was the intention. 

Situations like these are very rarely dichotomized to the degree of simplicity as you mention. You make many assumptions:

  1. "Fighting" for the rights of the Muslims can only be done in the "revolutionary" way.
  2. "Resistance" is only your interpretation/understanding of it, AKA the "Inqilabi" way
  3. This resistance requires a singular strong leader
  4. Strong means authoritarian
  5. Blood and sacrifice is the only way to attain victory in this resistance
  6. Anyone that disagrees is either lazy, or a traitor (another dichotomy)

Your dichotomy is a very common one, almost archetypal: your side is the underdog, the resistance, the fighters ("you will have to give blood, and sacrifice, and you will meet with hardships..."), while the other side are the lazy bystanders that would be willing to go along with evil rulers as long as it meant safety ("not even Muawiyah had a problem with this type of Islam"). You see this dichotomy in stories all the time and human beings have a natural tendency to project it to their own situations, and I feel the government of Iran is feeding on that mentality to further radicalize and tribalize people.

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14 hours ago, root said:

Sometimes things are dichotomies. Sometimes things are right and wrong and no in between. I'm not going to go through the last 1400 years for you to detail the issue you call oversimplified. If you find it oversimplified then good, that was the intention. 

Would you also not say that Ayatollah Khomeini made some decisions that were maybe not on the moral high ground? If so, then you admit that he wasn't always 100% right. But you say there's "nothing in between" so then where would you place him? If he's not 100% right then you'd say he's 100% wrong? I don't think so. There is an absolute right and wrong, but there is a massive gray area in between. And this notion of an Islamic government as brought forth by Khomeini resides in that gray area, hence all the disagreements.

And if you do believe that all of Khomeini's decisions were 100% right, then me and you have a much different definition of "right"

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10 hours ago, Hussain_ said:

Situations like these are very rarely dichotomized to the degree of simplicity as you mention. You make many assumptions:

  1. "Fighting" for the rights of the Muslims can only be done in the "revolutionary" way.
  2. "Resistance" is only your interpretation/understanding of it, AKA the "Inqilabi" way
  3. This resistance requires a singular strong leader
  4. Strong means authoritarian
  5. Blood and sacrifice is the only way to attain victory in this resistance
  6. Anyone that disagrees is either lazy, or a traitor (another dichotomy)

Your dichotomy is a very common one, almost archetypal: your side is the underdog, the resistance, the fighters ("you will have to give blood, and sacrifice, and you will meet with hardships..."), while the other side are the lazy bystanders that would be willing to go along with evil rulers as long as it meant safety ("not even Muawiyah had a problem with this type of Islam"). You see this dichotomy in stories all the time and human beings have a natural tendency to project it to their own situations, and I feel the government of Iran is feeding on that mentality to further radicalize and tribalize people.

1. Yes, general right of Muslims in Muslim lands which are occupied by kuffar, either militarily or economically. 

2. You don’t cuddle with the enemy, you resist their enforcement upon you. Hence the word..resistance.

3. Yes, that's usually the case, unless one can't be found,then a council.

4. Ummm..leaders should have authority yes....

5. Yes, going belly up doesn"t work. By 2020 that should be obvious.

6. No, they are usually just oppressed, often without even knowing how or why. 

 

In regards to your paragraph, yes. Imam Ali had a problem with 2 types of Islam, the secular don't get involved in the big social and political Islam of Muawiya, and the radical Islam of Khawarij(whom btw justified everything with the Qur'an). You can call it a dichotomy or trinity or whatever word you please, you like to point this towards Iran, mainly making you the one tribalizing it. Whilst I and many others don't live in the 80z anymore. This has gone beyond Iran and Iranians. We see the effects of Shia revolutionaries in all fields, military, academic, social and political all over from Nigeria were one man under the banner of revolution converted millions of people to Shia(he gave blood and sacrifice), to young men in south Lebanon kicking out occupiers, to Yemen. So yes a very clear dichotomy indeed. 

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14 hours ago, root said:

Sometimes things are dichotomies. Sometimes things are right and wrong and no in between. I'm not going to go through the last 1400 years for you to detail the issue you call oversimplified. If you find it oversimplified then good, that was the intention. 

I would like you to know that, the Islamic Republic of Iran that was created by Khomanists Shia clergy members is one of the most important developments in this century and Last century. 

It's a Republican form of government that has embed shiaism into it. It has democratic elections, and it has appointed clergyman that serve as a balance to the Mob mentality that arises when you have mass Democratic elections. 

The uniqueness of this development is so significant and not only in Shia history but in Islamic history.

The entire Islamic world has changed since 1979, and the Western world doesn't know how to deal with Iran in particular and the Islamic World in general.  

People are upset because it's not run by Imam Al Mahdi, or It's not an Islamic caliphate?

This is ridiculous. 

I'm not insinuating anybody specifically , it sounds like to me that this is the main issue. It's not freedom-loving enough, or It's not Western enough. 

These are prejudices that people have adopted from 42 years of unrelenting propaganda against Iran. 

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10 hours ago, Hussain_ said:

Would you also not say that Ayatollah Khomeini made some decisions that were maybe not on the moral high ground? If so, then you admit that he wasn't always 100% right. But you say there's "nothing in between" so then where would you place him? If he's not 100% right then you'd say he's 100% wrong? I don't think so. There is an absolute right and wrong, but there is a massive gray area in between. And this notion of an Islamic government as brought forth by Khomeini resides in that gray area, hence all the disagreements.

And if you do believe that all of Khomeini's decisions were 100% right, then me and you have a much different definition of "right"

You have to make the claim first on something you believe was wrong then defend that claim. Noone is taken to court to prove that they didnt commit a crime. I have yet to see someone coming up with something he did that was wrong. I don't believe he is masoom,but thatis different than making wrong decisions. A good leader makes the right calls, then his followers have to follow up(thats where we usually fail)

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1 minute ago, azizaliallah said:

I would like you to know that, the Islamic Republic of Iran that was created by Khomanists Shia clergy members is one of the most important developments in this century and Last century. 

It's a Republican form of government that has embed shiaism into it. It has democratic elections, and it has appointed clergyman that serve as a balance to the Mob mentality that arises when you have mass Democratic elections. 

The uniqueness of this development is so significant and not only in Shia history but in Islamic history.

The entire Islamic world has changed since 1979, and the Western world doesn't know how to deal with Iran in particular and the Islamic World in general.  

People are upset because it's not run by Imam Al Mahdi, or It's not an Islamic caliphate?

This is ridiculous. 

I'm not insinuating anybody specifically , it sounds like to me that this is the main issue. It's not freedom-loving enough, or It's not Western enough. 

These are prejudices that people have adopted from 42 years of unrelenting propaganda against Iran. 

You don’t have to tell me brother, tell others that disagree with you.

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23 minutes ago, root said:

You don’t have to tell me brother, tell others that disagree with 

You're absolutely right I probably pressed the wrong quote button. 

 

I noticed that discussing with people whom we disagree with yields no fruit. I cannot cultivate enlightenment with people who wish to grow banana trees in the arctic. 

This discussion is barren.

 

 

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8 hours ago, azizaliallah said:

I noticed that discussing with people whom we disagree with yields no fruit. I cannot cultivate enlightenment with people who wish to grow banana trees in the arctic. 

This discussion is barren.

 

Well that’s a hell of a thing to say in a debate. Outright rejecting the intellectual validity (or at least willingness to listen and try to understand) of the other side, and putting them down in a statement like that. Well done. 
 

At least I’m willing to say that I agree to disagree, not put you down by questioning your intellectual capacity and calling your entire argument ridiculous. 

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voting of Iranian Jews (Kalimis) in Iran

13981203000010637179275331179290_67472_PhotoT.jpg  13981203000010637179275325397948_41174_PhotoT.jpg 13981203000010637179275319460256_17159_PhotoT.jpg 13981203000010637179275313053848_11634_PhotoT.jpg

13981203000010637179275342611684_48800_PhotoT.jpg 13981203000010637179275279615387_81455_PhotoT.jpg 13981203000010637179275301647269_95901_PhotoT.jpg 13981203000010637179275336986247_44679_PhotoT.jpg

https://www.farsnews.ir/photo/13981203000011/انتخابات-در-کنیسه-کلیمیان

Iran Elections: Family Presence in Parliamentary Polls
Tehran (FNA)- Iranian Families have gone to the polls in the country's first general elections since the US reinstated its sanctions after a pullout from the 2015 nuclear deal. [PHOTOS]
13981202171631494_PhotoL.jpg 13981202171632965_PhotoL.jpg 13981202171633418_PhotoL.jpg
Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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10 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Do we know now how many % of iranian electors came for elections ?

 The Iranian people love politics and the turnout is typically High, 

Average more than most western democracies

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Iranian Jews Cast Votes in Parliamentary Elections
Tehran (FNA)- Iran’s Jewish community, one of the four religious minorities with a designated seat at parliament, came to the polls on Friday to cast their vote for the 11th parliamentary elections. [PHOTOS]
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On 2/22/2020 at 6:34 PM, Mohammadi_follower said:

Do we know now how many % of iranian electors came for elections ?

Salam It was totally 42.57% .

https://fa.abna24.com/news/اخبار-ایران/مشارکت-۲۴-میلیون-و-۵۱۲-هزار-و-۴۰۴-میزان-مشارکت-در-انتخابات-د_765949.html

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50 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Surprisingly low, I was expecting mid 70%. 

I wonder why there was such a little turn up?

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57 minutes ago, azizaliallah said:

Surprisingly low, I was expecting mid 70%. 

I wonder why there was such a little turn up?

Salam because both government & Parliament that were under influence of reformists caused great disappointment between people also all anti regime opposition from a year ago were working to reduce involvement of people by mix of multiple campaigns & heavy propaganda because they had hope by reducing percentage of voters , they could ask for more sanction even war against Iran that sudden rise of fuel price by reformists & propaganda of opposition about demonstrations & hitting Ukranian plane was a great help for them that even some reformists were wanting to bypass WF & reduce it to a luxury position but martyrdom of GenSoleimani caused foiling their plans.

Imam Khamenei thanks Iranians for frustrating enemy plot

Quote

“All of us must be vigilant for defense against the enemy’s plot to harm various pillars of the country, and be ready for blows and attacks in reciprocation,” the Leader added.

Pointing to a massive propaganda campaign that the enemies had launched months ago to adversely affect the polls and dissuade Iranian voters from taking part in the elections, such as by resorting to the spread of a viral disease, Ayatollah Khamenei thanked God and expressed deep gratitude to people for the widespread presence in the elections in spite of the hostile propaganda campaign.

“It is God’s will to make this (Iranian) nation victorious,” the Leader added.

Ayatollah Khamenei further said that hostility of enemies against the Iranian nation is not confined to the economic and cultural fields or to the religious and revolutionary beliefs of people. “They (enemies) are opposed even to the Iranian nation’s elections, because they don’t want the phenomenon of presence of people at the ballot boxes in the name of religion and in favor of the Revolution to be established as a fact.”

https://en.abna24.com/news//Imam-Khamenei-thanks-iranians-for-frustrating-enemy-plot_1012496.html

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2 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam because both government & Parliament that were under influence of reformists caused great disappointment between people also all anti regime opposition from a year ago were working to reduce involvement of people by mix of multiple campaigns & heavy propaganda because they had hope by reducing percentage of voters , they could ask for more sanction even war against Iran that sudden rise of fuel price by reformists & propaganda of opposition about demonstrations & hitting Ukranian plane was a great help for them that even some reformists were wanting to bypass WF & reduce it to a luxury position but martyrdom of GenSoleimani caused foiling their plans.

Imam Khamenei thanks Iranians for frustrating enemy plot

https://en.abna24.com/news//Imam-Khamenei-thanks-iranians-for-frustrating-enemy-plot_1012496.html

@Ashvazdanghe

Respectfully, I think that the relatively low turnout marked a significant victory for the West, since it shows the depth of Western influence in Iran vis-à-vis “reformists.”

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3 hours ago, Northwest said:

Respectfully, I think that the relatively low turnout marked a significant victory for the West, since it shows the depth of Western influence in Iran vis-à-vis “reformists.”

One way to look at it is the westernized masses didn't participate in force. Large turnout has not exactly turned out in favour of the Islamic republic in the last decade. Though the westerners will try to cling on any "victory" they can get their hands on, the very fact that the parliament has turned out more to be more revolutionary now will heavily limit their political gains and their push for Iran to further back down via Rohani. 

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