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TryHard

Islamic Government

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16 minutes ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

The point is that when infaillibles are not here at least we could try to do our best to have a system which could be the closer as possible to an Islamic government. No one deny that only an infaillible could make a 100% Islamic government but at least we could do our best to copy them as best as we could. 

Why must it be 100% I would settle for 1%

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5 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

The point is that when infaillibles are not here at least we could try to do our best to have a system which could be the closer as possible to an Islamic government. No one deny that only an infaillible could make a 100% Islamic government but at least we could do our best to copy them as best as we could. 

See my point here:

On 1/28/2020 at 3:55 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

However, that's not to say we can't have Islam inspired government or with Islamic principles but it's not really an Islamic government if not chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is it? 

We can have Islamic principles in our government (e.g. Sharia, Wilayat al-Faqih, forbidding riba)

However to have a true Islamic government, it must under an infallible. Not fallible people, to suggest otherwise is wrong.

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

See my point here:

We can have Islamic principles in our government (e.g. Sharia, Wilayat al-Faqih, forbidding riba)

However to have a true Islamic government, it must under an infallible. Not fallible people, to suggest otherwise is wrong.

Sorry indeed I misread you. 

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17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

And I'm getting sick and tired of you painting me as disingenuous when I answered you about Ismah.  Maybe "try  harder" at reading comprehension.

you ignored literally everything else I said and barely even answered that. Believe me not only am I sick I have been sick of you for a some time now. Its a pain just to type these words to you now.

17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

This is the standard teaching in the Jafari madhab. The Imams are infallible and do not sin in any capacity, to suggest otherwise is go against the Qur'an. The Ismah was already predetermined and was given to the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and 'Anbiya (عليه السلام). Other than the 'Anbiya (عليه السلام) and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), nobody else in the world is infallible.

said the great ayatullah al uthma 50+ year hawza student Gaius ceasar? You don’t understand the madhab you don’t even know Arabic  and your making these claims about the madhab and not answering the question in a correct manner.  Your putting words in my mouth and either not reading carefully or intentionally ignoring what I am sayng. Where did I say Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) sinned?  Again you have failed to prove that with your limited knowledge.

17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

You say that I'm being disrespectful to Salman al Farsi (رضي الله عنه) and Malik al-Ashtar (رضي الله عنه), while you exaggerate their status and end up ascribing the ismah to them because of their actions . It's very disrespectful to the dead and I'm here to tell you, that ordinary mortals like you and I have no chance of ever attaining that status. It's already been decided, you see.

Again speaking with your limited knowledge we can achieve sinlessness what we can’t achieve is being masoom in the sense that we don’t make mistakes like forget and other things the Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) can’t make those mistakes because we need them for hadiths and stuff etc.. but as for sinlessness we can achieve and salman al Farsi(رضي الله عنه) and Malik al Ashtar(رضي الله عنه) reached higher levels than you realize. Your disrespecting the great companions not just the dead.

17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

From Ridha Kardan 's "Imamate and Infallibility of the Imams in Qur'an"

With the same intention, God also made His Prophets and messengers immune from every kind of sin and error, and, in one word, made them “infallible” (ma‘sūm), so that they may be able to lead mankind towards God without any error or mistake. https://www.al-Islam.org/Islam-faith-practice-history-Sayyid-Muhammad-Rizvi/lesson-9-purity-Prophets#1-why-must-Prophets-be-ma‘sūm 

Allah gave it to them but because of their actions and the potential they had. That is why they were given that higher level of Isma that protects them from sins AND MISTAKES (like forgetfulness and other things) This protection from error as well as sin is the higher level I have been talking about that you are ignoring.

17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Lastly, from a book I have been reading by Ayatullah Loftollah Safi Golpaygani:

funny you should ask shaykh safi (رضي الله عنه) what he thinks of Islamic government http://en.wikishia.net/view/Lutf_Allah_Safi_Gulpayigani

Also none of the books you tried to qoute show humans can’t achieve sinlessness. Ask those same people on the topic of being sinless and you will see.

17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

This was the purpose of the Imamate, they were human but the best of people. Hence they were given Imamah. Having the ismah doesn't mean just being sinless but being given uncommon knowledge from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) (e.g. The Unseen)

no Lol those are two different think sinless and being free from mistakes is Ismah and unseen knowledge is Ilm al GHAYB  the fact that you don't seem to know that  and your commenting on this topic is sad honestly. 

17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

They are spiritual guides for us, so that we may know Him (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

sure when did I say they weren't? Again either implying things I don't believe and seem to be putting words in my mouth. 

17 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Where it ties in with what I have previously said is this: The only person capable of establishing Islamic government is from the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), because he will follow Allah and the Qur'an. Seeing as we are still in the age of the Ghaybah, he has yet to come.  No country right now can be considered as having an Islamic government right now.

Wrong and your basically doing ghibah on shaykh Safi Gulpaygani (رضي الله عنه) who served in the Iranian government and basically saying he was serving and supports a false government and you read his books subhanallah. Your also slandering the Iran government which is run by followers of Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام). Again making baseless claims without proof Iran is the only Islamic government right now intending to serve the Imam. You can go back and serve your master America @Gaius I. Caesar your government. Answer Allah and Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) on why you were an enemy of Iran and falsely claimed they do not follow him. 

Edited by TryHard

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20 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Your putting words in my mouth and either not reading carefully or intentionally ignoring what I am sayng. Where did I say Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) sinned?  Again you have failed to prove that with your limited knowledge

Except I didn't, I said:

Quote

The point you seemed to be making was that they had the capability  but that's a moot point because a ma'sum wouldn't even consider sinning. Again, people can't get to this stage through good deeds and righteousness.

This is far, far different from "you said that the Ahlul Bayt are liars", maybe if you weren't busy personally attacking me and telling me to server US government and how I'm an enemy of Iran, you would have realized that 

As @Abu Nur said, Iran is not representative of every Shia nor is it a hujjah to support Iran and you are not allowed to call or imply that I'm a non-Shia for disagreeing with you. 

As for everything else, it is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I wouldn't even know where to begin with what you written about me.

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45 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Except I didn't, I said:

"The Imams are infallible and do not sin in any capacity, to suggest otherwise is go against the Qur'an." Gaius Ceasar (America Lover and hater of Iran and WF not a shaykh as he might think he is

Go back to my post I even quoted you saying that. so I ask you again where did I say Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) sinned or even implied it? 

45 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

This is far, far different from "you said that the Ahlul Bayt are liars", maybe if you weren't busy personally attacking me and telling me to server US government and how I'm an enemy of Iran, you would have realized that 

Qoute me where I said "you said that the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) are liars". 

Also I said serve the US government, which you are doing indirectly by attacking Iran and trying to lower its status among the followers of the ahlul bay(عليه السلام) that is serving them whether you admit it or not. So you would describe yourself as an ally of Iran? 

45 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

As @Abu Nur said, Iran is not representative of every Shia nor is it a hujjah to support Iran and you are not allowed to call or imply that I'm a non-Shia for disagreeing with you. 

Iran is true Shia. I never said you were not "Shia" but since you brought it up NO I don't consider you a true Shia maybe by name you are but I definitely don't think your a real one. In fact I would like to let you know what I really think of you but it seems to be against Shiachat policy and I want to avoid any violations from now on. Iran does not represent people who call themselves "Shia" like you but they certainly represent the true Shia.  It is hujjah to support Iran.

45 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

As for everything else, it is full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. I wouldn't even know where to begin with what you written about me.

Lol. Again being disingenuous. 90% of What I wrote was addressing your arguments and not about you at all except the part about America and your limited knowledge. Your just choosing to ignore my arguments and not answer anything because I don't think you can or know how. Your anti Iran propaganda is failing you and don't know what to do. So you choose to respond with only one or two lines of text only addressing a tiny fraction of what I wrote. Anyone who comes on Shiachat can clearly see that your running away from debate. Running away and only answering when it suites you.  

You said your reading safi gulpaygani (ha) what does he think about Islamic government I ask you? someone with waaaaaaaaay more knowledge than you and I. What are your arguments against him? 

 

Edited by TryHard

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19 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

The Imams are infallible and do not sin in any capacity, to suggest otherwise is go against the Qur'an. 

this is just in case you try to deny it further. 

(I also embolden is go just cuz)

Edited by TryHard

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8 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

See my point here:

We can have Islamic principles in our government (e.g. Sharia, Wilayat al-Faqih, forbidding riba)

However to have a true Islamic government, it must under an infallible. Not fallible people, to suggest otherwise is wrong.

LOLLLS. Can you please define for me wilayat al faqih? 

You can have an Islamic government under the Waleeh al Faqeeh and it can be a true Islamic government. To claim such a government run under an Ayatullah with the assistance of other mujtahids (see Ayatullah Safi Gulpaygani(ha))  is not an Islamic government is not only slander (haram btw) but falsly accusing momineen of lying and to say the leader of such a government is fallible as in he is a sinner is further slander and ghiba too but not only that it is a service to the enemies of the Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام).

Edited by TryHard

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12 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

I didn't understand your comment. 

he is saying that If it is our obligation to have an Islamic government (whether you agree with that premise or not please still bear with me here) 

shouldn't we try to do the best we can even if that means that Islamic government will only be 1% true Islamic government and everything else fake. Especially if that 1% is 1% more benifit to the Muslims of the world and that country than without it. 

Edited by TryHard

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6 hours ago, Mohammadi_follower said:

Sorry indeed I misread you. 

I personally don't think you misread him. Certain people described in the Qur'an use certain words to hide their intentions maybe he is one of them. 

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3 hours ago, King said:

And you sound like a mouth piece for Iranian government's propaganda machine.  Reading your posts is like reading some childish and laughable press TV article.

First I find your statement quite insulting toward this brother. 

Secondly even if presstv has defaults I don't find it specifically more propagandist than some other medias I read. 

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Propaganda is information that is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.[2] Propaganda is often associated with material prepared by governments, but activist groups, companies, religious organizations, the media, and individuals can also produce propaganda.

 

Propaganda is a good thing.

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10 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Iran is not representative of every Shia nor is it a hujjah to support Iran and you are not allowed to call or imply that I'm a non-Shia for disagreeing with you. 

Salam , it's true that Iran is not representative of every Shia but Qom (Hawza of Qom) clearly mentioned as Hujjah before Imam Mahdi (aj) always Shias from Iran that are following path of Salman Farsi (Muhammadi) (رضي الله عنه) [not all Shias from Iran] called as main supporters of Imam Mahdi(aj) before & after reappearance that this needs establishing a government under supervision of deputy of Imam Mahdi(aj) such as WF for providing army & man power & preacher for near future of reappearance of  Imam Mahdi (aj) but these duties are not obligatory for Shias outside of Iran but they must become ready for time after reappearance that for it just sitting & praying on rug & isolation from world is not enough but you must prepare yourself for  reappearance that we need active knowledgeable people between  other nations that prepare people around themselves like as their families & non Muslim communities for reappearance so that they accept calling of Imam Mahdi (aj) based on preperation by Shias like you from outside of Iran because although all works for spreading message of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) & Imam Mahdi (aj)  through Qom there is still a long way to go to prepare all people of world for it that establishing a semi Islamic governance in Iran is such as building lighthouse for all people that are searching for truth in darkness of seas of darkness that with ship of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) we can reach to safe land  of total Islamic governance by Imam Mahdi (aj) that Iran & Qom like as a lighthouse illuminates way to ship of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but at the end it needs that Shias from inside outside of Iran become dynamic after centuries that we were in passive state.

I highly recommend to you that you watch theses videos

Noah's Ark & Hussain's ship (Aliakbar Raefipoor English)

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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8 hours ago, azizaliallah said:

Propaganda is a good thing.

It isn't, that's the same reasoning the Umayyads and Abbassids used to justify persecuting the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and why people have a lot of misconceptions about the Jafari madhab in general.

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4 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

It isn't, that's the same reasoning the Umayyads and Abbassids used to justify persecuting the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and why people have a lot of misconceptions about the Jafari madhab in general.

It is. If it's for Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام). Also it depends on what you define as propaganda. In any case if the Imam (عليه السلام) were to ask you to do propaganda for his cause would you say no?

Edited by TryHard

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17 hours ago, King said:

And you sound like a mouth piece for Iranian government's propaganda machine.  Reading your posts is like reading some childish and laughable press TV article.

It is the truth not propaganda its sad that you are as misguided as Mr.. gaius. Also press TV is some of the greatest news on Earth but I would rather debate that on a separate topic. go ahead and watch your garbage Fox news, BBC, CNN and Arabiya or whatever other garbage "King". The sad thing is I know many non Muslims who like press TV and Iran and understand MSM is generally garbage yet sadly some people who call themselves "Shia" can’t seem to see what the truth is even if it Punches them right in the face.  May Allah guide you. 

Edited by TryHard
felt it needed fixing

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9 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam , it's true that Iran is not representative of every Shia but Qom (Hawza of Qom) clearly mentioned as Hujjah before Imam Mahdi (aj) always Shias from Iran that are following path of Salman Farsi (Muhammadi) (رضي الله عنه) [not all Shias from Iran] called as main supporters of Imam Mahdi(aj) before & after reappearance that this needs establishing a government under supervision of deputy of Imam Mahdi(aj) such as WF for providing army & man power & preacher for near future of reappearance of  Imam Mahdi (aj) but these duties are not obligatory for Shias outside of Iran but they must become ready for time after reappearance that for it just sitting & praying on rug & isolation from world is not enough but you must prepare yourself for  reappearance that we need active knowledgeable people between  other nations that prepare people around themselves like as their families & non Muslim communities for reappearance so that they accept calling of Imam Mahdi (aj) based on preperation by Shias like you from outside of Iran because although all works for spreading message of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) & Imam Mahdi (aj)  through Qom there is still a long way to go to prepare all people of world for it that establishing a semi Islamic governance in Iran is such as building lighthouse for all people that are searching for truth in darkness of seas of darkness that with ship of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) we can reach to safe land  of total Islamic governance by Imam Mahdi (aj) that Iran & Qom like as a lighthouse illuminates way to ship of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but at the end it needs that Shias from inside outside of Iran become dynamic after centuries that we were in passive state.

I highly recommend to you that you watch theses videos

Noah's Ark & Hussain's ship (Aliakbar Raefipoor English)

 

Gaius seezer wont listen to you no matter what you tell him even if he was given wahi from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in favor of wilayat al faqeeh and Iran, I am 100% sure he would still hate Iran as much as he does now. He is one of those people that wont change and a few other people one of them a mod who I wont mention seem to be like that too. Though I feel Gaius is a lot more lost than many of them are. 

Edited by TryHard

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45 minutes ago, TryHard said:

It is the truth not propaganda its sad that you are as misguided as Mr....... gaius.

 

45 minutes ago, TryHard said:

go ahead and watch your garbage Fox news, BBC, CNN and Arabiya or whatever other garbage "King".

 

34 minutes ago, TryHard said:

He is one of those people that wont change and a few other people one of them a mod who I wont mention seem to be like that too. 

 

34 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Though I feel Gaius is a lot more lost than many of them are

This guy deliberately insulted brothers atleast 4 times in just last 2 posts. He needs lessons in Akhlaaq and warning/suspension. 

Edited by Sirius_Bright

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11 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

 

 

 

This guy deliberately insulted brothers atleast 4 times in just last 2 posts. He needs lessons in Akhlaaq and warning/suspension. 

None of those quotes were insults per say. I was careful not to insult anyone with any foul language. Also I don't need your suggestions. I like how you also ignore this

17 hours ago, King said:

And you sound like a mouth piece for Iranian government's propaganda machine.  Reading your posts is like reading some childish and laughable press TV article.

If you judge me by the same standard you will have to give "akhalq" classes and warning/suspensions to others too. 

Though your honestly the last person I would want an akhlaq class from. 

Edited by TryHard

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@AmirioTheMuzzy why are you agreeing with this guy have you seen his posts about Imam Khamenei (ha) he has a bias. Please point out to me here and quote me why you agree with him or pm me if you like. I legitimately made sure my responses where with Shiachat guidelines. 

Edited by TryHard

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1 minute ago, TryHard said:

None of those quotes were insults. I was careful not to insult anyone. I don't need your suggestions from you. I like how you also ignore this

Yes, those were cleverly crafted praise. You actually need suggestions, be it from me or any other.

2 minutes ago, TryHard said:

 

17 hours ago, King said:

And you sound like a mouth piece for Iranian government's propaganda machine.  Reading your posts is like reading some childish and laughable press TV article.

If you judge me by the same standard you will have to give "akhalq" classes and warning/suspensions to others too. 

All I can say is brother @King was very kind to write 'Childish and laughable'. 

4 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Though your honestly the last person I would want an akhlaq class from.

Not from me, from Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام). Try Makārim al-akhlāq. 

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7 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Yes, those were cleverly crafted praise. You actually need suggestions, be it from me or any other.

I never said I praised them. None of what you quoted were insults that are against community guidelines. Saying someone is misguided is not really an insult that is wrong to use. I can call Yasir Habib (la) for example misguided. I'm sure you think the same way about me. 

7 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

All I can say is brother @King was very kind to write 'Childish and laughable'. 

I'm noting a clear bias from you is all. 

7 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Not from me, from Imams of Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام). Try Makārim al-akhlāq. 

Again Bias, 

As for my Akhlaq we all need to work on that you too not just me I don't want to claim I am perfect and neither should you. However I don't agree with your reasons for claiming I need to work on it. 

I think my responses were fine. You don't have to like my responses in fact that is sort of the point here. 

Edited by TryHard

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On 1/28/2020 at 10:30 AM, Abu Nur said:

If you think so, then you can call Sistani and others Scholars (Abu al-Qasim al-Khoei, Muhammad Hossein Naini, Borujerdi, Muhsin al-Hakim and others) who disagree with fallible governments non-Shias with that mentality.

Ayatullah Burjurdi(رضي الله عنه) was involved in Iran's government. Muhsin al Hakim (رضي الله عنه) was probably the most politically active marja of his time he never said anything against wilayat al faqeeh from what I've learned about him during his time though Iraq was in political turmoil you had a British appointed king an baathist/communists in power. Muhammad al Naeni (رضي الله عنه) was kicked out of Iraq by the British appointed Iraq king for political activism we can’t say he didn't believe in Islamic government. As for al Khoi (رضي الله عنه) this is a good video explaining his beliefs https://www.shiatv.net/video/1202410767 we can’t say he rejected it though. He supported the Iranian government and Imam Khommeini(رضي الله عنه). Sayed Sistani (ha) believes in wilayat al Faqeeh he says it depends on the mujtahids popularity with the people and some other things. 

On 1/28/2020 at 10:30 AM, Abu Nur said:

They agree and I also agree that we can not have true Islamic Government if Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) is not yet appeared and is with us. But at same time it is fine to advice the government for following best way, which I clearly referred in my previous post.

I think we can have a true Islamic government but maybe not a perfect one there is a difference too. I don't agree with the scholars giving advice idea Easy example as to why look at Saudi Arabia.

 

Edited by TryHard

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Ayatullah Burjurdi(رضي الله عنه) was involved in Iran's government. Muhsin al Hakim (رضي الله عنه) was probably the most politically active marja of his time he never said anything against wilayat al faqeeh from what I've learned about him during his time though Iraq was in political turmoil you had a British appointed king an baathist/communists in power. Muhammad al Naeni (رضي الله عنه) was kicked out of Iraq by the British appointed Iraq king for political activism we can’t say he didn't believe in Islamic government. As for al Khoi (رضي الله عنه) this is a good video explaining his beliefs https://www.shiatv.net/video/1202410767 we can’t say he rejected it though. He supported the Iranian government and Imam Khommeini(رضي الله عنه). Sayed Sistani (ha) believes in wilayat al Faqeeh he says it depends on the mujtahids popularity with the people and some other things. 

Can you show me the sources.

Edited by Abu Nur

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I think we can have a true Islamic government but maybe not a perfect one there is a difference too. I don't agree with the scholars giving advice idea Easy example as to why look at Saudi Arabia.

It is not called a true government. By true we mean the government that is leaded by an Imams, Prophets choose by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

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6 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

It is not called a true government. By true we mean the government that is leaded by an Imams, Prophets choose by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

^Which is precisely the point I'm trying to make.

 

1 hour ago, TryHard said:

None of those quotes were insults per say. I was careful not to insult anyone with any foul language

Need a reminder?

23 hours ago, TryHard said:

You can go back and serve your master America @Gaius I. Caesar your government. Answer Allah and Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) on why you were an enemy of Iran and falsely claimed they do not follow him. 

2 hours ago, TryHard said:

Though I feel Gaius is a lot more lost than many of them are.

Then you're in good company with the Salafis and ISIS. At least, I don't go about insulting people. I don't really care what you think of me but you have spoken a baseless assumption about me.

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43 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Can you how me the sources.

Im assuming you meant the rest and not sayed al khoi (رضي الله عنه). for Sistani (ha) 

السؤال: ما هو تعريفكم لولاية الفقيه ؟

الجواب: الولاية فيما يعبّر عنها في كلمات الفقهاء (رض) بالامور الحسبية تثبت لكل فقيه جامع لشروط التقليد ، واما الولاية فيما هو اوسع منها من الامور العامة التي يتوقّف عليها نظام المجتمع الاسلامي فلمن تثبت له من الفقهاء ولظروف إعمالها شروط اضافية ومنها ان يكون للفقيه مقبولية عامة لدى المؤمنين .
what is your view on wilayat al Faqeeh:
Answer: the wilayat talked about by our Fuqaha (رضي الله عنه) in regards to the umoor hisbaya (general issues) the faqeeh who has the requirements has this wilayat.
As for the wilayat in regards to the umoor al amat (general issues which is what Imam Khoemini (رضي الله عنه) includes in the wilayat) that require a Islamic government , the jurist must meet the conditions (for taqleed) and and be able to know how to implement it (Islamic government) on top of being accepted by the Mumineen.
 
(this is a rough translation I did my best but I don't think it's perfect you may ask another brother who is better at translating to translate it better. In any case you can read the Arabic yourself)
 
As for the other mujtahids 
I would look through the video but its long and bit tiring to do so but I remember seeing those mujtahids being talked about for their political activism in Iraq in this documentary series you will definitely see them in here. Sorry I can’t give you the exact timing.
 
As for sayed Muhsin al Hakim (رضي الله عنه) and Ayatullah Burjurdi(رضي الله عنه) https://www.shiatv.net/video/eef5eb501a32c65bdeca
Im not sure which part again I apologize but there are other sources that talk about Sayed Muhsin al hakim's (رضي الله عنه) political stances and activism a simple bio on his life will actaully mention a few things http://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Sayyid_Muhsin_al-Hakim#Political_Activities_in_Iraq
 
 
 
Edited by TryHard

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6 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

^Which is precisely the point I'm trying to make.

you said many times all government have ulterior motives and agendas and tried to slander Iran by mentioning prisons and saying it had no business in Iraq. 

25 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

It is not called a true government. By true we mean the government that is leaded by an Imams, Prophets choose by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

I personally would be careful of wording. I still consider it a true Islamic government but ti would be better with an Imam (عليه السلام) though I do see what your trying to say. I disagree with the wording used. I think it can be called a true Islamic government and should be followed as such. Though with a Masum leading directly  it would be much better.

10 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Need a reminder?

Then you're in good company with the Salafis and ISIS. At least, I don't go about insulting people. I don't really care what you think of me but you have spoken a baseless assumption about me.

foul language? saying someone is lost or misguided is not foul language in my opinion. 

I would actually argue that comparing me to Salafis and saying I am Isis is a lot worse. 

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5 minutes ago, TryHard said:

foul language? saying someone is lost or misguided is not foul language in my opinion. 

I would actually argue that comparing me to Salafis and saying I am Isis is a lot worse. 

Don't be coy, clearly telling me that America is my master is a jab at my beliefs and character. Same goes for the disingenuous remarks and saying I'm troll. Which by the way is what some Salafis and ISIS would say about people like me. 

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20 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Don't be coy, clearly telling me that America is my master is a jab at my beliefs and character. Same goes for the disingenuous remarks and saying I'm troll. Which by the way is what some Salafis and ISIS would say about people like me. 

Question where did I explicitly say you were a troll?  

As for master is america again not foul language also why are you offended? some people might like that and think its a good thing. Don't you think serving America is a good thing? I do think your disingenuous, though that is grasping at straws as far as insults go. 

Also again I get the impression your implying I'm Isis and a Salafist but whatever. 

Edited by TryHard

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I personally would be careful of wording. I still consider it a true Islamic government but ti would be better with an Imam (عليه السلام) though I do see what your trying to say. I disagree with the wording used. I think it can be called a true Islamic government and should be followed as such. Though with a Masum leading directly  it would be much better.

How about the Great Kingdom.

Or do they envy people for what Allah has given them of His bounty? But we had already given the family of Abraham the Scripture and wisdom and conferred upon them a great kingdom4:54

Edited by Abu Nur

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2 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

How about the Great Kingdom.

Or do they envy people for what Allah has given them of His bounty? But we had already given the family of Abraham the Scripture and wisdom and conferred upon them a great kingdom4:54

ya if your trying to say the Imam (عليه السلام) is the only one that can establish the great kingdom of God throughout the entire Earth I definitely agree with you.

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