Islamic Government

[TryHard]

On 1/21/2020 at 12:28 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I respect Khamenei, out of respect for his followers. However to me, he'll always be a politician before a scholar in my eyes.

Because he has taken on role of a politician; Politicians are to hate, what lighting is to tall, free standing objects. However, I think people have deep and complex reasons as to why they dislike or outright hate Iran or Khamenei. It's more than just the lanat or tatbir issues.

As for the boldened part, I haven't seen that reaction about Sheikh Yasser Habib or Ayatullah Yousef Saanei, even though the former is not an Ayatullah. I have also seen many harsh opinions on scholars like Fadlallah or Montazeri.

What about Imam Ali(عليه السلام) wasn’t he a politician to an extent? Western politics is bad but Islamic politics is following the footsteps of the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). How about the governors appointed by Imam Ali(عليه السلام) Malik al Ashtar (رضي الله عنه) and salman al Farsi (رضي الله عنه) are you going to say they lose points for being involved in politics when they are the greatest companions of the Imam (عليه السلام)?

[Gaius I. Caesar]

13 hours ago, TryHard said:

What about Imam Ali(عليه السلام) wasn’t he a politician to an extent?

His rule and Imam Mahdi's are the only examples that I would consider a legitimate Islamic government.

Sorry for the delayed response.

[TryHard]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:26 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

His rule and Imam Mahdi's are the only examples that I would consider a legitimate Islamic government.

Sorry for the delayed response.

why though? Why is a government that wants to follow the Imam (عليه السلام) not considered legitimate in your eyes? 

Also my point was if Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and others were good politicians is it not the case that others can follow in his footsteps? So you don't believe its possible for example for a Muslim to run for mayor and be a good one based on Islam and the teachings of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)? 

How about the companions that served the Imam (عليه السلام) in taqiyah for the thalim government? I forget the name of said companion but I believe it was during the time of haroon al rashid (la) in Imam kathim's (عليه السلام) time.

Why despite all these example you see Iran as the bad guy? 

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) ruled a government as an example for us to follow not to make one big show. 

[Gaius I. Caesar]

10 minutes ago, TryHard said:

why though? Why is a government that wants to follow the Imam (عليه السلام) not considered legitimate in your eyes? 

Who says that? Wanting to and actually implementing it are two very different things. We're not ready for the Imam (afts), we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves. Until he arrives, there's no legitimate Islamic government. 

[TryHard]

6 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Who says that? Wanting to and actually implementing it are two very different things. We're not ready for the Imam (afts), we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves. Until he arrives, there's no legitimate Islamic government. 

how do you know they haven't actually implemented it? what makes you the judge of that? They have implemented it actually there is a reason why Iran supports resistance groups and not Israel. 

Why didn't you answer my other points?

I agree we are not ready for the Imam (عليه السلام) cause unfortunately we still have people like you who are not willing to smell the coffee yet. Your too busy poking at Iran a real Islamic government and not willing to see the enemy right in front of you.

Edited January 28, 2020 by TryHard

[Gaius I. Caesar]

36 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Your too busy poking at Iran a real Islamic government and not willing to see the enemy right in front of you.

The real enemy is within me, therefore I must I focus on this. Instead of being distracted by worldly affairs that are our control. I don't trust any government to tell me otherwise.

Especially a government willing to tell me that "British Shi'ism" is the enemy. I have never heard of such a thing  until I started learning about Yasser Habib and the controversy surrounding him

 

56 minutes ago, TryHard said:

So you don't believe its possible for example for a Muslim to run for mayor and be a good one based on Islam and the teachings of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)? 

I don't consider it appropriate for scholars take on political responsibilities that might make him  a figure of hatred and controversy within his own community. Somebody could use that situation to spread further fitnah.

 

56 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Why despite all these example you see Iran as the bad guy? 

I don't consider Iran the "bad guy" but it does violate Iraqi sovereignty  under the pretext of liberating Iraq from the US and friends, which is more or less, the same justification used by the US to take out Saddam

All governments have ulterior motives,  whether "Islamic" or secular which is I'm cautious.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Gaius I. Caesar
Clarification

[azizaliallah]

All governments have a theology.

How can you govern without God or Idols?

A Nihilistic Republic ? Or a Nihilistic Democracy?

Communists where atheists but could they govern without false gods? 

Impossible.

America is motivated by faith, faith not in Allah but the Goddess of Colombia.

People are deceived, can't see the evil that todays Idols bring.

Every nation has a Pharaoh, every nation has a Kabba filled with idols.

Imam Khomeini put the entire Iranian nation on his shoulders, and they smashed the false gods of the west.

Islamic revolution smashed the idols of American Exceptionalism, Feminism , Communism, Capitalism.

Most Important development of the last century. 

[TryHard]

On 1/27/2020 at 9:07 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

The real enemy is within me, therefore I must I focus on this. Instead of being distracted by worldly affairs that are our control. I don't trust any government to tell me otherwise.

Especially a government willing to tell me that "British Shi'ism" is the enemy. I have never heard of such a thing  until I started learning about Yasser Habib and the controversy surrounding him

brother what do you understand about Islam? Yes the enmey is within you but you also have enemies outside like Yazid(la) and there are Yaids(la) of this time that we have  a duty to rise against. There is British shiaism like there is Saudi wahabism like there is American sunnism (same as wahabism) 

On 1/27/2020 at 9:07 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I don't consider it appropriate for scholars take on political responsibilities that might make him  a figure of hatred and controversy within his own community. Somebody could use that situation to spread further fitnah.

Again your being Incredibly disingenuous. Why is it not appropriate? Where is your evidence this is unislamic? give me Qur'an or some kind of example from Islamic history? I have asked you for this time and time again because I know you wont be able too. 

AGAIN what about Imam Ali (عليه السلام) people made him a figure of controversy to the point that Muawiyah (la) was able to convince people Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did not pray. 

On 1/27/2020 at 9:07 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I don't consider Iran the "bad guy" but it does violate Iraqi sovereignty  under the pretext of liberating Iraq from the US and friends, which is more or less, the same justification used by the US to take out Saddam

All governments have ulterior motives,  whether "Islamic" or secular which is I'm cautious.

yet according to you they are going against Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) and should not have a government. cuz...reasons..??????

The difference between Iran and USA is Iran had permission from the Iraqi government and still has permission because they are Muslims just like the Iraqis. Another difference is the Iranians didn't throw Iraqis in Abu Ghurayb prison where they were raped and tortured. Seriously why are you white washing history here to hate on Iran. No not all governments have ulterior motives prove Iran has ulterior motives its haram to accuse a Muslim of wrongdoing without evidence.

Seriously you said you "converted to Islam" and became "Shia" but you remind me of the Muslims in history who converted when the Prophet was alive but then where nowhere to be found when Imam Ali (عليه السلام) called upon them. Those same Muslims you curse including the wife of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) were all converts btw. You say you seek the truth but I PERSONALLY FEEL WHEN IT COMES TO Iran FOR WHATEVER REASON YOU choose to have bias. 

[Abu Nur]

On 1/27/2020 at 5:29 AM, TryHard said:

What about Imam Ali(عليه السلام) wasn’t he a politician to an extent? Western politics is bad but Islamic politics is following the footsteps of the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). How about the governors appointed by Imam Ali(عليه السلام) Malik al Ashtar (رضي الله عنه) and salman al Farsi (رضي الله عنه) are you going to say they lose points for being involved in politics when they are the greatest companions of the Imam (عليه السلام)?

It is incorrect to compare this to the current time where our Imam is not yet appeared so he can make the divine guided Government. In what bases we should even involve to politics when fallible peoples are leading the matters and executions without one who is infallible who could guide them when they are doing wrong and then we are responsible for choosing  and supporting them? I have not seen any government that apply religion that is justice, there is always faults and mistakes.

[TryHard]

6 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

It is incorrect to compare this to the current time where our Imam is not yet appeared so he can make the divine guided Government. In what bases we should even involve to politics when fallible peoples are leading the matters and executions without one who is infallible who could guide them when they are doing wrong and then we are responsible for choosing  and supporting them? I have not seen any government that apply religion that is justice, there is always faults and mistakes.

I don't agree with pretty much everything you said. I think you have a misunderstanding of many things including what an Islamic government is, the coming of the Imam, and Infallibility. 

[Abu Nur]

7 minutes ago, TryHard said:

I don't agree with pretty much everything you said. I think you have a misunderstanding of many things including what an Islamic government is, the coming of the Imam, and Infallibility. 

Please tell me what Islamic government is, what coming of Imam means, what Infallibility means according to your understanding.

[TryHard]

6 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Please tell me what Islamic government is, what coming of Imam means, what Infallibility means according to your understanding.

See normally I wouldn't mind but because of the condescending attitude I am sensing from you I am choosing not too. I don't want to waste my time getting to another pointless argument with someone who just wants to argue and refuses to listen.

[Abu Nur]

Also for example I want to emphasis on Iran Government and how was it defined. It was defined by Scholar or Scholars who think that their interpretation and knowledge from Qur'an and narrations is correct, but you can find the other sides of Scholars who disagree with such a definitions, so we have again differences here and there. Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) will make sure that the true Islamic Government is absolutely truth and no differences and it is safe to follow every law.

[Abu Nur]

4 minutes ago, TryHard said:

See normally I wouldn't mind but because of the condescending attitude I am sensing from you I am choosing not too. I don't want to waste my time getting to another pointless argument with someone who just wants to argue and refuses to listen.

Do you think it is very nice to call others you have misunderstand without telling them how it so? I'm discussing and listening and I'm not interested on arguing.

[TryHard]

6 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Also for example I want to emphasis on Iran Government and how was it defined. It was defined by Scholar or Scholars who think that their interpretation and knowledge from Qur'an and narrations is correct, but you can find the other sides of Scholars who disagree with such a definitions, so we have again differences here and there. Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) will make sure that the true Islamic Government is absolutely truth and no differences and it is safe to follow every law.

We actaully have quite a few hadiths on how the Imam will fight evil scholars batris and the like who will appose his government. Also there will be challenges in maintaining the government according to other hadiths.  As for the scholars who disagree on WF I have seen their arguments and have gotten into heated debates with some people about them. The arguments aren't very good and they will often criticize despite the fact that what they bring to the table is never any better and worse in many ways. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by TryHard

[TryHard]

1 minute ago, Abu Nur said:

Do you think it is very nice to call others you have misunderstand without telling them how it so? I'm discussing and listening and I'm not interested on arguing.

You have a lot of posts and been here for a while I doubt there is much I can say that will make you change your mind in what it is you believe. So I will avoid getting baited. 

[Abu Nur]

Just now, TryHard said:

You have a lot of posts and been here for a while I doubt there is much I can say that will make you change your mind in what it is you believe. So I will avoid getting baited. 

I understand your concern. It is fine brother.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

59 minutes ago, TryHard said:

You say you seek the truth but I PERSONALLY FEEL WHEN IT COMES TO Iran FOR WHATEVER REASON YOU choose to have bias. 

Could it be that I'm not biased? Maybe there's merit in what I'm saying, after all in many Islamic countries there's always some deficiency in justice, Islamic principles and values since the time of Umayyads until today.  They are all fallible, including the Islamic Republic of Iran. 

مَّا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لِرَجُلٍ مِّن قَلْبَيْنِ فِي جَوْفِهِ ۚ وَمَا جَعَلَ أَزْوَاجَكُمُ اللَّائِي تُظَاهِرُونَ مِنْهُنَّ أُمَّهَاتِكُمْ ۚ وَمَا جَعَلَ أَدْعِيَاءَكُمْ أَبْنَاءَكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ قَوْلُكُم بِأَفْوَاهِكُمْ ۖ وَاللَّهُ يَقُولُ الْحَقَّ وَهُوَ يَهْدِي السَّبِيلَ - 33:4

Sorry to inconvenience and upset you further, but my heart doesn't belong to Iran, it belongs only to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Khamenei is not infallible, he's a very knowledgeable scholar but still fallible and human like the rest of us.

1 hour ago, TryHard said:

Another difference is the Iranians didn't throw Iraqis in Abu Ghurayb prison where they were raped and tortured. Seriously why are you white washing history here to hate on Iran.

Where did this come from? I wasn't even remotely white washing history, I was merely answering your questions. As for Abu Ghraib, it's no different than what happens in Evin prison. Both are horrendous places of torture. I'm willing to continue this discussion but if you insist using ad hominems, I won't dignify you with a response.

[TryHard]

20 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Could it be that I'm not biased? Maybe there's merit in what I'm saying, after all in many Islamic countries there's always some deficiency in justice, Islamic principles and values since the time of Umayyads until today.  They are all fallible, including the Islamic Republic of Iran. 

مَّا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لِرَجُلٍ مِّن قَلْبَيْنِ فِي جَوْفِهِ ۚ وَمَا جَعَلَ أَزْوَاجَكُمُ اللَّائِي تُظَاهِرُونَ مِنْهُنَّ أُمَّهَاتِكُمْ ۚ وَمَا جَعَلَ أَدْعِيَاءَكُمْ أَبْنَاءَكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ قَوْلُكُم بِأَفْوَاهِكُمْ ۖ وَاللَّهُ يَقُولُ الْحَقَّ وَهُوَ يَهْدِي السَّبِيلَ - 33:4

Sorry to inconvenience and upset you further, but my heart doesn't belong to Iran, it belongs only to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Khamenei is not infallible, he's a very knowledgeable scholar but still fallible and human like the rest of us.

You are though. You sound like a mouth piece for anti Iran propaganda. Dude reading your post feels like I'm reading an article insulting Iran from the BBC. Of course it is not as professional but still. Btw have you ever been to a Muslim country? Your sitting there in America judging Muslim countries saying their corrupt etc.. which Muslim country have you been in? Ya Saudi Arabia and American allied countries are corrupt but still have you even been to them? have you ever been to a country that is not allied with America? Also is the deficiency in justice a result of them following the path of Imam Khomeini(رضي الله عنه)? Its not btw. Imam Khamenei (ha) is a professional not prone to mistakes like the rest of us and bring your proof if you are truthful he(ha) is no comparison with you. That verse you qouted has little to do with what we are talking about and the part of it that does Ill say Imam Khamenei (ha) is following Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

20 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Where did this come from? I wasn't even remotely white washing history, I was merely answering your questions. As for Abu Ghraib, it's no different than what happens in Evin prison. Both are horrendous places of torture. I'm willing to continue this discussion but if you insist using ad hominems, I won't dignify you with a response.

Ill explain where. Im explaining the difference between Iran and America in Iraq. Evin prison is not in Iraq it is in Iran. AND IT IS NO WHERE NEAR THE BRUTALITY OF Abu GHURAYB PRISON! have you even been to an American prison? America and Iran are not comparable you making them out to be is very delusional thinking. Anyways the prison system is a different issue. I'm talking about how Iran being in Iraq is not at all the same as the USA being there.

You don't seem to want a discussion Gaius! If you did you would actually answer my points and questions and not deflect and bring in off topic issues to slander Iran like Evin prison. Seriously if you replaced you username with FOX NEWS or maybe BBC news I might honestly be less shocked from what I am reading from you. You haven't contributed to this discussion since it started nothing but changing subjects and deflecting. I a convinced you are more concerned with slandering Iran than anything else. But this is good for me because I am starting to see you for the person you are, unfortunately ShiaChat is very strict on its insults policy otherwise I would seriously have some words for you. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by TryHard
grammer

[Gaius I. Caesar]

5 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Ill explain where. Im explaining the difference between Iran and America in Iraq. Evin prison is not in Iraq it is in Iran. AND IT IS NO WHERE NEAR THE BRUTALITY OF Abu GHURAYB PRISON! brother have you even been to an American prison?

I never said that Evin was in Iraq, quit trying to put words in my mouth. I said and I quote: 

22 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

for Abu Ghraib, it's no different than what happens in Evin prison. Both are horrendous places of torture.

I made no mention of what country Evin is in, I assumed you knew that I was referring to Iran. Again, you continue with ad hominems and personal attacks, which proves to me that you're not really reading what I have to say and wrote this in a childish rage.

And I quoted the ayah because of you, not Khamenei. 

[TryHard]

33 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I never said that Evin was in Iraq, quit trying to put words in my mouth. I said and I quote: 

I made no mention of what country Evin is in, I assumed you knew that I was referring to Iran. Again, you continue with ad hominems and personal attacks, which proves to me that you're not really reading what I have to say and wrote this in a childish rage.

And I quoted the ayah because of you, not Khamenei. 

I know you didn't say that it was in Iraq I was pointing out it had nothing to do with our discussion as we are talking about Abu Ghurayb prison in Iraq. Because we were talking about American and Iranian influence in Iraq!!. And we were trying to compare the two (well I was trying at least) The topic was about Iraq and you managed to squeeze in an Iranian prison in there somehow possibly through your hatred and misguided views on religion. 

Calling me childish? How about you stop being disingenuous. When I was talking about Imam Khamenei (ha) I was saying by following him I am following Allah but I guess you unfortunately cannot see that. I'm actually reading your posts carefully why don't you give that a try? I'm taking time out giving you long responses carefully addressing all your points to no effect. I'm starting to think any amount of reasoning has no effect on you.

I like how you still refuse to answer any of my points and arguments. Proving my point that you have not contributed to this discussion and I doubt you will. You might post something negative about Iran next or tell me how Ayatullah Khamenei (ha) is not infallible same old nonsense. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by TryHard

[Guest Guest_Persianwarrior]

On 1/27/2020 at 9:07 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

The real enemy is within me, therefore I must I focus on this. Instead of being distracted by worldly affairs that are our control. I don't trust any government to tell me otherwise

We have hadiths which tell us to be concerned of the affairs of the ummah. This battle within us isn't the end. If that's the Islam you follow then I'm afriad you haven't understood the message of Islam in it's entirety. Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) decided to take his family with him, what for? Think deep about this point. Our Imams (عليه السلام) could have just prayed at the mosque etc. But that is a very selfish way to look at things. 

[Gaius I. Caesar]

30 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Calling me childish? How about you stop being disingenuous.

Where I was disingenuous? I'm not  answering some of your questions because they are rather personal and I rather keep some aspects of my life private, I'm in no way whatsoever beholden to share every little detail of my personal life on ShiaChat.

[TryHard]

10 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Where I was disingenuous? I'm not  answering some of your questions because they are rather personal and I rather keep some aspects of my life private, I'm in no way whatsoever beholden to share every little detail of my personal life on ShiaChat.

some of them were personal but not all questions where. Also I don't see how answering if whether or not you've been to the Middle East is a huge deal. people talk about their Hajj and ziyarat trips all the time here. I myself have been to these so called "corrupt" countries so the judgments I make are from actually seeing them and not solely sitting down in a corner and passing judgement.The reason I don't think you want to answer is because either your answers either aren't good and you know it or you simply can’t answer. An example of you being disingenuous is where I said you were in the same post. But also here as well rather than answering simple questions you again deflect and say its personal. I would actually argue you were disingenuous throughout this discussion (want much of a discussion except for those few seconds with Abunur) 

[azizaliallah]

On 1/28/2020 at 1:15 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Where I was disingenuous? I'm not  answering some of your questions because they are rather personal and I rather keep some aspects of my life private, I'm in no way whatsoever beholden to share every little detail of my personal life on ShiaChat.

 

On 1/28/2020 at 1:33 AM, TryHard said:

some of them were personal but not all questions where. Also I don't see how answering if whether or not you've been to the Middle East is a huge deal. people talk about their Hajj and ziyarat trips all the time here. I myself have been to these so called "corrupt" countries so the judgments I make are from actually seeing them and not solely sitting down in a corner and passing judgement.The reason I don't think you want to answer is because either your answers either aren't good and you know it or you simply can’t answer. An example of you being disingenuous is where I said you were in the same post. But also here as well rather than answering simple questions you again deflect and say its personal. I would actually argue you were disingenuous throughout this discussion (want much of a discussion except for those few seconds with Abunur) 

This off topic. Return to Islamic Government.

Think about it, does it make sense? What are the advantages, disadvantages, what are the challenges of Islamic government.

Why is the west intimated by concept of Islamic government. What are historical challenges of Islamic government, how is Iran's Islamic Republic different.

This thread will die, if it doesn't become insightful.

Thank you, may Allah guide us.

[TryHard]

On 1/28/2020 at 1:42 AM, azizaliallah said:

This off topic. Return to Islamic Government.

Think about it, does it make sense? What are the advantages, disadvantages, what are the challenges of Islamic government.

Why is the west intimated by concept of Islamic government. What are historical challenges of Islamic government, how is Iran's Islamic Republic different.

This thread will die, if it doesn't become insightful.

Thank you, may Allah guide us.

Dude I want too and I know its off topic but I'm showing you what he has been doing. I really don't think he is sincere and is disingenuous. He has made up his mind already clearly doesn't want to change I have seen a ton of his posts he has and we joined ShiaChat at around the same time btw. So I am sure he wont change his views. Maybe he considers himself a patriot and America is the idol he just can’t let go of and stop worshiping Allah alam.

All good points btw. I may address them later but I have had to deal with nonsense on this site all day so I may come back later. Thanks for trying though.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

11 minutes ago, TryHard said:

some of them were personal but not all questions where. Also I don't see how answering if whether or not you've been to the Middle East is a huge deal.

I was referring to your prison question but I'm hoping that I can go do Umrah soon, Insha'Allah.

I'm not saying that I went to prison, but it's not something that I would openly in public, much less Shiachat. That is kind of a big deal and ultimately is a distraction from the actual topic of the thread.

[Abu Nur]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:47 AM, Guest Guest_Persianwarrior said:

We have hadiths which tell us to be concerned of the affairs of the ummah. This battle within us isn't the end. If that's the Islam you follow then I'm afriad you haven't understood the message of Islam in it's entirety. Imam Hussein (عليه السلام) decided to take his family with him, what for? Think deep about this point. Our Imams (عليه السلام) could have just prayed at the mosque etc. But that is a very selfish way to look at things. 

I can still contribute to the affairs of Ummah without me creating Government or voting for particular politicians in such a Goverment.

[azizaliallah]

What is Islamic government.

What is government? It means to rule, to direct, to lead.

What is Islamic? Concepts for Islam?

What is Islam?What is Islam, Islam is submission to God.

So what does it really mean to have Islamic Government?

A Form of rule that is rooted in Islamic teaching?

So a submissive rule over the masses to enact policy?

That's if we understand what we are asking, we realize that it very difficult to have a "Islamic Government "

[Guest Guest Persian Warrior]

47 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

I can still contribute to the affairs of Ummah without me creating Government or voting for particular politicians in such a Goverment.

Yeah sure sure, and watch innocent people get butchered? Watch millions of children in yemen starve to death? Watch millions of Iraqis get killed by ISIS? It's all good apparently since we don't need to create a government. We're just living in our own fairy lands.

When a nation does create a government for this specific purpose we can only pick out on the negatives while we hold the prayer beed and say "Ya Mahdi (as)" all day. 

When Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) comes he will also appoint fallible leaders. What makes you think Shias will accept all of them? History repeats itself my friend.

[Gaius I. Caesar]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:14 AM, azizaliallah said:

What is Islamic government.

What is government? It means to rule, to direct, to lead.

What is Islamic? Concepts for Islam?

What is Islam?What is Islam, Islam is submission to God.

So what does it really mean to have Islamic Government?

A Form of rule that is rooted in Islamic teaching?

So a submissive rule over the masses to enact policy?

That's if we understand what we are asking, we realize that it very difficult to have a "Islamic Government "

Right, it would have to be a government chosen beforehand by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) e.g. The khalifa of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), which was wrongfully usurped by Abu Bakr at Saqifah. 

The policies themselves would be the divine laws of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), timeless, universal and unchangeable.

So going by this, it's quite apparent to me that the return of Imam Mahdi (afts) will bring the first Islamic government since Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

However, that's not to say we can't have Islam inspired government or with Islamic principles but it's not really an Islamic government if not chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is it? 

[azizaliallah]

4 hours ago, azizaliallah said:

All governments have a theology.

How can you govern without God or Idols?

A Nihilistic Republic ? Or a Nihilistic Democracy?

Communists where atheists but could they govern without false gods? 

Impossible.

America is motivated by faith, faith not in Allah but the Goddess of Colombia.

People are deceived, can't see the evil that todays Idols bring.

Every nation has a Pharaoh, every nation has a Kabba filled with idols.

Imam Khomeini put the entire Iranian nation on his shoulders, and they smashed the false gods of the west.

Islamic revolution smashed the idols of American Exceptionalism, Feminism , Communism, Capitalism.

Most Important development of the last century. 

 

52 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Dude I want too and I know its off topic but I'm showing you what he has been doing. I really don't think he is sincere and is disingenuous. He has made up his mind already clearly doesn't want to change I have seen a ton of his posts he has and we joined ShiaChat at around the same time btw. So I am sure he wont change his views. Maybe he considers himself a patriot and America is the idol he just can’t let go of and stop worshiping Allah alam.

All good points btw. I may address them later but I have had to deal with nonsense on this site all day so I may come back later. Thanks for trying though.

Iran is a Islamic Republic. Officially.

It has a Government. Full Stop.

It has judicial branch, Executive Branch, Legislative Branch.

It is run by the Iranian people, who have embraced Islam.

Imam Khamenei is called a dictator by his enemies, he is mankind's most hands off dictator in the human history. 

Imam Khamenei was anti-negotiations, anti nuclear deal. 

This is a man who has the authority,(millions will follow willingly)and mashallah God bless his soul, what pleases him?

His service to the Iranian people, because he knows that what pleases God.

[azizaliallah]

1 minute ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Right, it would have to be a government chosen beforehand by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) e.g. The khalifa of Imam Ali, which was wrongfully usurped by Abu Bakr at Saqifah. 

The policies themselves would be the divine laws of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), timeless, universal and unchangeable.

So going by this, it's quite apparent to me that the return of Imam Mahdi (afts) will bring the first Islamic government since Imam Ali (عليه السلام)

However, that's not to say we can't have Islam inspired government or with Islamic principles but it's not really an Islamic government if not chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is it? 

Allah Knows best.

First ask your self this question. Can man be a Muslim? if the answer is no, then your logic makes sense.

If your answer is yes, then your logical doesn't make sense.

If I follow your reasoning, I would conclude that I can only truly be a Muslim until the Mehdi shows up, or that only time Muslims truly existed was during Ali rule.

I say Ali's rule was Islamic but his subjects were unislamic.

[Abu Nur]

9 minutes ago, Guest Guest Persian Warrior said:

Yeah sure sure, and watch innocent people get butchered? Watch millions of children in yemen starve to death? Watch millions of Iraqis get killed by ISIS? It's all good apparently since we don't need to create a government. We're just living in our own fairy lands.

When a nation does create a government for this specific purpose we can only pick out on the negatives while we hold the prayer beed and say "Ya Mahdi (as)" all day. 

When Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) comes he will also appoint fallible leaders. What makes you think Shias will accept all of them? History repeats itself my friend.

1400 years we have been living with our own and others were busy making their own governments and fighting their fights and causing so much troubles. Still at same time Shi'as made sure to contribute to the Ummah and we have even advice's from Imams (عليه السلام) how we should approaches the people of other faith. 

Quote

When a nation does create a government for this specific purpose we can only pick out on the negatives while we hold the prayer beed and say "Ya Mahdi (as)" all day. 

Because we are not blind to follow only what Good it brings but it is important to see what bad it have produced. Basic Islamic teaching of al-amr bi-l-maʿrūf wa-n-nahy ʿani-l-munkar. 

Quote

When Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) comes he will also appoint fallible leaders. What makes you think Shias will accept all of them? History repeats itself my friend.

These fallible leaders will be perfected by their characters and knowledge by Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام), very different than from now days.

[azizaliallah]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:55 AM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

1. Right, it would have to be a government chosen beforehand by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) e.g. The khalifa of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), which was wrongfully usurped by Abu Bakr at Saqifah.
2.  The policies themselves would be the divine laws of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), timeless, universal and unchangeable.
3. So going by this, it's quite apparent to me that the return of Imam Mahdi (afts) will bring the first Islamic government since Imam Ali (عليه السلام)
4. However, that's not to say we can't have Islam inspired government or with Islamic principles but it's not really an Islamic government if not chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), is it? 

1. Allah doesn't need to choose . We recognize Allah, through his creations. lmam Ali cannot be usurped, Ali did not humiliate himself fighting Abi Bakr over a Title of "Khalife". 
2. Fire burns flesh, can this be changed ? no. What would the law be? Don't play with fire. Simple. Now try that with human society with more complex issues . Difficult.
3. No "Islamic Government" means no Muslims, the last time we had Muslims was during Imam Ali? I don't no who is going to agree to this.
4. Who is going to be Inspired by Islam other than Muslims? Allah creates and causes all thing to speak, and we know Allah through His creations. Allah doesn't choose.

Allah knows best