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In the Name of God بسم الله
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HamidCZ

75th Anniversary of Liberation of victims of the Holocaust site Auschwitz-Birkenau campl

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6 hours ago, HamidCZ said:

Assalamu aleikoum,

Assalamallikum,

l know your numbers are wrong. l read large parts of the multi-volume US Army report on the Nazi death camps. Limiting the number killed to those actuallin any of the death camps, the numbers given are : 6 1/2 million Roma, 5 1/2 million Jews, and 2 million political prisoners.  How many Soviet PoWs murdered was at that time estimated at maybe 2 million, but that number is now known to be way too small. [Soviet PoWs were used in testing Zyklon-B as a murder weapon before its use on others.]

 

ADDED: l checked Wikipedia.  ln one article it says that in addition to "the Jews" there were " 11million others." Then on an ethinic listings, two articles say 1/2 to 1 1/2 millions. Which raises a question: How did the USArmy classify who was Roma.

Edited by hasanhh

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salam brother 

I agree we should not trivialize the suffering of any human being and certainly not on the scale it happened in ww2 

but let us commemorate all the innocent victims  of ww2 [ including but not limited to ]

Chinese /other asians killed by japanese 

ukranians  killed by soviets 

soviet pow killed by nazis 

german pows killed during and after the war 

Jews /Roma killed by nazis 

slavic /polish civilians killed by war in general but by fascists and communist groups in tit for tat killings 

german civilians during expulsion after the war 

western POWs brutally killed by japanese forces 

The trouble is we only seem to focus on the atrocities committed by the losers and not the winners

WW2 was a great tragedy for all humanity and no ones hands were clean after the war , we should forgive and  move on like germany and france did 

 

Kohl and Mitterand in Verdun, 1984 (1).jpg

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During WW2 many people died, not only Jews. There is a saying that "the winner side writes history to whatever is their liking", hence the word "his-story".

Nobody mentions the non Jew civilians that died, like if their lifes doesn't matter. Their death toll is much more than the "6million Jews".

Truth to be told, nobody for sure knows what happened during ww2, and who played in what side. Some historians say that hitler and his top men fled to argentina etc. Some even claim that he was from jewish blood.

Where there any gas chambers?

did 6 million Jews die?

was this a setup from the zionists?

did bush family fund hitler to power?

do the royals and elites have german nazi blood?

did the germans have contact with Intelligent life, like Aliens/reptilians/jinns?

was ww2 all a setup for what?

why is holocaust denial a crime in many nations?

“To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

 

So many questions, but not a single clear answer.

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17 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

During WW2 many people died, not only Jews. There is a saying that "the winner side writes history to whatever is their liking", hence the word "his-story".

Nobody mentions the non Jew civilians that died, like if their lifes doesn't matter. Their death toll is much more than the "6million Jews".

Truth to be told, nobody for sure knows what happened during ww2, and who played in what side. Some historians say that hitler and his top men fled to argentina etc. Some even claim that he was from jewish blood.

Where there any gas chambers?

did 6 million Jews die?

was this a setup from the zionists?

did bush family fund hitler to power?

do the royals and elites have german nazi blood?

did the germans have contact with Intelligent life, like Aliens/reptilians/jinns?

was ww2 all a setup for what?

why is holocaust denial a crime in many nations?

“To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

 

So many questions, but not a single clear answer.

There were many pogroms on the Jewish community since Spanish ,,Reconquista" (fall of Muslim Granada) across the Europe, last pre-WWII pogroms were reported in Ukraine.

We as the Roma (Gypsies) were targeted by the Church (Pope) as stated ,,the dirty Gypsies are not good believers and must be destroyed", this Church statement started literally manhunt on the Romanies when was completely legal to kill a Romani person without any legal consequences, it lasted in Christian part of Europe until the rule of Maria Theresa (the Habsburg queen of Austria-Hungary), when started strong assimilation pogramme. In Orthodox Christian part of Europe were Roma either never persecuted or under slavery (slavery should be understood as persecution too), for example in Romania and Moldova existed slavery, where were the Roma slavs of state, church or individuals until 1850´s.

And for example the Muslims (mainly Turks, Slavic, Greek and Roma) from Balkans were main victims of anti-Muslim riots in the Balkans since weakening of Ottoman power, estimate is 8 million Muslim victims killed and far more deported to nowadays Turkey.

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15 hours ago, HamidCZ said:

I often feel terrible when someone calls Holocaust as Holohoax and I will tell you why:

Salam it's because currently denying Holocaust is a political & verbal opposition against zionist Israel propaganda but majority of people even me don't know about Roma people or mistaking them with Number of killed Jews that reported by Zionist propaganda machine anyway both sides did many horrible things during WWII but they only blame Nazis based on propaganda of zionists to justify any action against Muslims specially Palestians also Israel from one hand holds Purim as a religious holiday against Iranians but in other hand shows itself as friend of Iranians against their current regime although zionists are hiding their hatred against all Iranians in their hearts but they are showing their  hatred it in Purim festival.

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@HamidCZ

Turks were terrible slave masters to the slavic people that is why Turks were treated like that by slavic Christians. Did you know Muslims of Middle East trade slaves for much longer than transatlantic slave route ? Like centuries longer 

Maybe you should take a broader look at human suffering  rather than just focus on your community 

 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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4 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Turks were terrible slave masters to the slavic people that is why Turks were treated like that by slavic Christians

I am not sure how much terrible slave masters the Turks were but our ethnicity was never under slavery by the Turks.

Slavic Christians is some historical construct, in the Balkans area were the Slavic people islamicized almost completely but after weakening of the Ottoman Empire many of those Muslim Slavic people were either killed or deported by their Cryptochristian neighbours, same story was seen in Greece.

 

And to be sure, I know that the eastern Slavic people (Ukrainians and Russians) were enslaved by the Tatars and sold to the Turks, many of those Slavs became very powerful Turkified families in the Ottoman Empire.

4 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Did you know Muslims of Middle East trade slaves for much longer than transatlantic slave route ?

Do you really think that the Europeans did not had slavery before the Trans-Atlantic slave route?
What about the Romans (Roman Empire), Avars, slavery on master´s lands in the Medieval Europe and so?

I personally think that the slaves of Middle Easterner Muslims had better opportunities to become free than their counterparts owned by the European Christians.

4 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Maybe you should take a broader look at human suffering  rather than just focus on your community

I am focusing on my communities (as I see myself a part of more communities) as something what is needed when many people don't know (or don't want to know) about our sufferings, I really hate when someone denies Holocaust or/and when someone thinks that only the Jews were victims, that´s all.

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21 hours ago, HamidCZ said:

I am not sure how much terrible slave masters the Turks were but our ethnicity was never under slavery by the Turks.

Slavic Christians is some historical construct, in the Balkans area were the Slavic people islamicized almost completely but after weakening of the Ottoman Empire many of those Muslim Slavic people were either killed or deported by their Cryptochristian neighbours, same story was seen in Greece.

 

And to be sure, I know that the eastern Slavic people (Ukrainians and Russians) were enslaved by the Tatars and sold to the Turks, many of those Slavs became very powerful Turkified families in the Ottoman Empire.

Do you really think that the Europeans did not had slavery before the Trans-Atlantic slave route?
What about the Romans (Roman Empire), Avars, slavery on master´s lands in the Medieval Europe and so?

I personally think that the slaves of Middle Easterner Muslims had better opportunities to become free than their counterparts owned by the European Christians.

I am focusing on my communities (as I see myself a part of more communities) as something what is needed when many people don't know (or don't want to know) about our sufferings, I really hate when someone denies Holocaust or/and when someone thinks that only the Jews were victims, that´s all.

Exactly since your ethnicity was not oppressed by Turks everything is kosher for you 

Ofcourse I'm not denying that Europeans could be just as brutal as middle easterners.Hell Vikings were enslaving slavs centuries before.

But what I'm saying this whole idea of painting some communities as perpetual victims and others as perpetual oppressors is a dangerously naive notion.

ALL communities when given power tend to exploit others 

Regarding you claim that slaves in Middle East tended to fare better that is highly unlikely.Yes a FEW may rise to become kings and ministers but vast majority ended up being worked to death or in harems if they were women.Oh and why don’t we know their stories ? Because a lot of the men slaves were castrated in the Middle East so they left no descendants.

Regarding your request that Muslims don't deny holocaust well that is because of their blind hatred of Israel.Even though since 1948 FAR more Muslims have perished in middle eastern prisons than ever killed by israelis 

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4 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Exactly since your ethnicity was not oppressed by Turks everything is kosher for you 

You're actually wrong, I just told about the Roma who were Muslims, it was majority, for example after fall of Wallachia (in nowadays southern Romania) were the Roma christianized and they had to pay Jizyah, so if you see Jizyah tax as oppression (I personally not because taxes were paid by everyone) and for sure many Roma were victims of Turkish-Ottoman Devşirme (Blood tax - when a boy or boys were taken by the Ottoman government into army) system which is unislamic, so you can't say that the Roma were not oppressed.

 

But for me (and many Balkans Christians) was Devşirme a opportunity for those boys to get some good position, as many of them were at the end one of the most-powerful people in the Ottoman Empire.

11 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Europeans could be just as brutal as middle easterners

I personally think that the Europeans are and were more brutal than any other people in the World, maybe just Chinese and Japanese can be comparable to them.

 

12 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

But what I'm saying this whole idea of painting some communities as perpetual victims and others as perpetual oppressors is a dangerously naive notion

Show me when the Roma were oppressors, please...

 

14 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

ALL communities when given power tend to exploit others 

Do you think that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saws) whenever exploited someone? I think that not

 

15 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

since 1948 FAR more Muslims have perished in middle eastern prisons than ever killed by israelis

Well, do you know that the rulers in the Middle East were often people who were never connected to religion and did not followed Islamic teachings?

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W Salam

Some people calling Holocaust, "Holohoax" has nothing to do with the suffering of the victims of WWII;
Clearly, it's a kind of reaction to Holocaust industry.
Holocaust industry: Systematic abuse of holocaust's innocents' blood, to create and justify other holocausts.
This is a fact, the propaganda and industry initiated under the name of Holocaust, has killed, abused, displaced, tortured and injured quiet equal to the number that real, historical holocaust killed etc.

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