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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why is it that Sunnis think that Abu Bakr should been the leader?

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

 I am not on this forum to read such nonsense.

Forgot, to include (mention):

You write the most nonsense, yet, you say "I am not on this forum to read such nonsense"?

:hahaha:

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We don’t think he should have been the leader Akhi.  We all know that he was the leader.  It has become a historical fact now.  

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) named two of his sons “Umar”.  And both of them got martyred in Karbala.  This goes to show how much love Imam Ali (عليه السلام) had for Umar Ibn Khattab (رضي الله عنه).  

Leaders don't take what belongs to someone else. Specially if it belongs to the Prophets family. Leaders don't send others to do their work and force others to give allegiance to them. Leade

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

I once asked a Sunni friend of mine of what qualifies one as a Sahaba... and when he told me that one just had to look at the Prophet (S) or the Prophet (S) just had to look at him... I objected as any typical Shia would by saying, "how can that be a criteria for respect!!".  And what he replied to me made me feel so ashamed... he said this is because the Prophet (S) was no ordinary human!  The Prophet(S) very presence and gaze had a transformative effect!  This answer alone is proof that Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamah have a strong connection with Seyyidna Muhammad Mustafa (S).  And this is proof of the disconnect many Shias have with the Prophet (S).    

Congratulations!!!

He convinced you and both of you made Abu Laheb, Abu Jahal and other kuffar & munafiqeen of that era companions.

MashaAllah

Lets see few verses:

Surah Al-Mujadila, Verse 22:
لَّا تَجِدُ قَوْمًا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ يُوَادُّونَ مَنْ حَادَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلَوْ كَانُوا آبَاءَهُمْ أَوْ أَبْنَاءَهُمْ أَوْ إِخْوَانَهُمْ أَوْ عَشِيرَتَهُمْ أُولَٰئِكَ كَتَبَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمُ الْإِيمَانَ وَأَيَّدَهُم بِرُوحٍ مِّنْهُ وَيُدْخِلُهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا عَنْهُ أُولَٰئِكَ حِزْبُ اللَّهِ أَلَا إِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ

You shall not find a people who believe in Allah and the latter day befriending those who act in opposition to Allah and His Apostle, even though they were their (own) fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their kinsfolk; these are they into whose hearts He has impressed faith, and whom He has strengthened with an inspiration from Him: and He will cause them to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, abiding therein; Allah is well-pleased with them and they are well-pleased with Him these are Allah's party: now surely the party of Allah are the successful ones.
(English - Shakir)

Now we continuously need to remind everyone that look Ali (عليه السلام) is nafs e Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), whoever fought with him has fought with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & His Apostle.

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 101:
وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُم مِّنَ الْأَعْرَابِ مُنَافِقُونَ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَرَدُوا عَلَى النِّفَاقِ لَا تَعْلَمُهُمْ نَحْنُ نَعْلَمُهُمْ سَنُعَذِّبُهُم مَّرَّتَيْنِ ثُمَّ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَذَابٍ عَظِيمٍ

And from among those who are round about you of the dwellers of the desert there are hypocrites, and from among the people of Medina (also); they are stubborn in hypocrisy; you do not know them; We know them; We will chastise them twice then shall they be turned back to a grievous chastisement
(English - Shakir)

Even after these sort of verses, we continuously see award winning ceremonies on daily basis where people make companions those who are exposed hypocrites.

What a "furqan"!!

 

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It seems to me that Ahlul Sunnah knows only one hypocrite I.e., Abdullah ibn Saba. All others who saw Prophet or Prophet saw them are companions & true believers, aadil and stars of guidance. But who are these mentioned in the verses then:

Surah Al-Munafiqoon, Verse 1:
إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْمُنَافِقُونَ قَالُوا نَشْهَدُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَكَاذِبُونَ

When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Apostle; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Apostle, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Munafiqoon, Verse 2:
اتَّخَذُوا أَيْمَانَهُمْ جُنَّةً فَصَدُّوا عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ إِنَّهُمْ سَاءَ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

They make their oaths a shelter, and thus turn away from Allah's way; surely evil is that which they do.
(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Munafiqoon, Verse 3:
ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ آمَنُوا ثُمَّ كَفَرُوا فَطُبِعَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ فَهُمْ لَا يَفْقَهُونَ

That is because they believe, then disbelieve, so a seal is set upon their hearts so that they do not understand.
(English - Shakir)

 

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

I was shocked to hear from a Lebanese Shia once that Hazrat Bilal (رضي الله عنه) was not a true companion.  

I mean.. I never heard this growing up...  but if this is true, oh my God!   Astaghfirullah.  Extremists really know no bounds.

 

 

I'm not a big fan either judging by his record post conversion. He was ok 

I mean he was a badri that's great 

But I can name 50 far far  better than him 

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1 hour ago, 000 said:

As for the name Abu Bakr.... For an important person like close friend of his by that name, there is not even a slightest clue about any historical record that implies there was Abu Bakr other than the Abu Bakr.

That is fine.

Just because we do not know the Imam's reason for naming his son Abu Bakr does not mean we can assume that he named him after the first caliph.

All we can say is that we do not know but to make unfounded assumptions is not quite right either.

  

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1 hour ago, baqar said:

Brother, how do we know that he was telling the truth.

And if he was, don't forget that Sheikhs are also of all types.

None of them is perfect.

why would he lie?  he was an honest man.  lol

anyway.. Panzerwaffe was just now explaining to us about his doubts about the greatness of Bilal ....  

pretty sad...  like Shias (on this forum) seems to have a problem with not being able to give the benefit of the doubt!  Always thinking about conspiracies and casting doubts on people... thinking so negative about them.  This is a sickness.

 

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

why would he lie?  he was an honest man.

Well brother, as I said before, Sheikhs are also all types.

And even the highest scholars sometimes differ in their views.

As for Bilal, my understanding is that he had a very high place in the eyes of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)).

And in the eyes of the Prophet's family as well.

Some of the Companions were jealous of the high opinion the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) had of him and they wanted Bilal out.

But the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) overruled them. 

That again shows that the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) truly liked him.  

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19 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

why would he lie?  he was an honest man.  lol

anyway.. Panzerwaffe was just now explaining to us about his doubts about the greatness of Bilal ....  

pretty sad...  like Shias (on this forum) seems to have a problem with not being able to give the benefit of the doubt!  Always thinking about conspiracies and casting doubts on people... thinking so negative about them.  This is a sickness.

 

And your sickness is considering constructive criticism = heresy 

Bilal's merits are great for his participation in battles but he is not one of my top 100 companions by any means , what's the problem with that ?if anything I would rate Umar and Abu Bakr much more highly than Bilal.

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20 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

The criteria is simple.  he should have "seen" the Prophet (S) and not have uttered disbelief before having died.  This is a sahaba by definition.  And I find this profound because this shows the Powerful Presence of Seyyidna Muhammad Mustafa (S).  Shias don't seem to have this sense of appreciation of the "alchemical effect" found in just the presence of the Prophet (S).  Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamah however see this value.   I once asked a Sunni friend of mine of what qualifies one as a Sahaba... and when he told me that one just had to look at the Prophet (S) or the Prophet (S) just had to look at him... I objected as any typical Shia would by saying, "how can that be a criteria for respect!!".  And what he replied to me made me feel so ashamed... he said this is because the Prophet (S) was no ordinary human!  The Prophet(S) very presence and gaze had a transformative effect!  This answer alone is proof that Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamah have a strong connection with Seyyidna Muhammad Mustafa (S).  And this is proof of the disconnect many Shias have with the Prophet (S).    

 

nice "conceptualization" and "reasoning", the very things you said previously that Shia are guilty of. fyi this "sahaba by definition" of yours cannot be proven by Qur'an nor sunnah. also, the definition is what we call illogical, an impossibility, unfounded, unsounded, unjustifiable, unproved, irrational, non-sensical, preposterous, absurd, etc. etc. as illustrated above...

20 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

It is based on something most Shias have lost.  The connection to the Prophet (S).

 

ok. Guess we are now judging the essence of people. lol.

20 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

By the way, I would recommend, for your own sake, to show respect to the Sheikh (even though he is not my Sheikh).  But he is a very pious man of God and has written numerous works on which you might find beneficial.... he also speaks a lot on the love of the Ahlul Bayt (as)).  This lecture he gave was his attempt to speak about the greatness of Imam Ali (عليه السلام).   At least you should respect him for that (if you are not able to respect him for being a human).  So, saying something insulting about such a man means that I should ignore you.  You are not worthy of even being called "Shia" with your disgraceful behavior.   

You speak about the nifaq of someone who makes "war" with Imam Ali (عليه السلام), how about the person who is attempting to praise Imam Ali (عليه السلام) such as this Sheikh (Ninowy) and who, by the way, was commanded to praise the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) by the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) themselves in his very dreams/ visions?  You speak in a demeaning way of such a person? What does that make you?   God knows best!

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) is above petty praise and fake love. Such things are attempted detractions of his magnanimity, though it does not harm him in anyway.

Seems we need a simplistic example; you do not award Usain Bolt a bronze medal despite him deserving Gold after running a 9.58 on the 100; this is disrespectful, unfair, and quite frankly an insult. I would imagine Mr.. Bolt would not accept the bronze medal, nor does he need it, as his feat is immortalized as a world record either way..

Now, what is running 100m to being the divinely-selected Wali Allah?

"Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! What had I to do with this “consultation”? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? " Ya Ali.

20 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

I am ignoring the one that speaks ill of a believer.   I am not on this forum to read such nonsense.

I'd ignore people too when I cannot substantiate any assertions I make from Qur'an and/or Sunnah.

 

Edited by dragonxx
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20 hours ago, 000 said:

Undoubtedly, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was the most competent man, but can't you see the glimpse of wisdom why Imam Ali (عليه السلام) behaved such. His wisdom is too high for us too comprehend fully that it's hard to say why he named his sons such and not even saying bad things about them. After all of his Imam Ali (عليه السلام), I can say for sure saying bad things about them is just against the project that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) had sacrificed for. The only safe way is we should have more benefit of the doubt.

Really? This sounds beyond bad to me...

Beware! By Allah, the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)2 dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death).

I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was [Edited Out]ing in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

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On 2/3/2020 at 12:03 AM, eThErEaL said:

Does calling Muawiyyah a hypcrite make your Salah better?  Does it make you more prayerful, more God conscious?

yes , it makes our Salah better & even cursing him make it better & every person that supports him is at least hypocrite & Fasiq & maybe in edge of Kufr.

 

On 2/3/2020 at 12:03 AM, eThErEaL said:

1) Would Imam Ali (عليه السلام) protect Uthman (Who you claim is a Usurper, a munafiq, a kafir, a fasiq) using Imam Hussein (عليه السلام)  and Imam Hassan (عليه السلام)

2) Would Imam Ali (عليه السلام) Advice a Umar (who you claim is a Usurper, a kafir, a Munafiq, a Fasiq) not to go to the front lines because the Ummah needs a caliph? 

3) Would Imam Ali (عليه السلام) have treated Ayesha with dignity and respect after battle of Jamal if she just committed the worst of sins and the most unforgivable act one can do that would classify her as a munafiq, a fasiq, and a kafir?

all of them for keeping unity between Muslims when Muslim community was under danger of extinction under treat of Romans & cursed Muawiah (la) .

 

On 2/3/2020 at 12:03 AM, eThErEaL said:

Adalat is a Mutazilite influence.  It developed as a stance they took in answering Euthephro’s dilemma.

this is from wahabi accusations to relate Shias to Mutazila as you do it based on your corrupted wahabi-Sufi doctrine.

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On 2/3/2020 at 7:05 AM, eThErEaL said:

I was shocked to hear from a Lebanese Shia once that Hazrat Bilal (رضي الله عنه) was not a true companion.  

I mean.. I never heard this growing up...  but if this is true, oh my God!   Astaghfirullah.  Extremists really know no bounds.

 

 

your claims & lies just came from wahabi sources that are changing Shia videos by cropping & making new videos by their edition anyway companion Bilal (رضي الله عنه) refused to be Muazen of Abubakr after demise of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) so it's obvious that wahabists are insulting him by changing Shia videos to show their hatred from companion  Bilal (رضي الله عنه)

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

your claims & lies just came from wahabi sources that are changing Shia videos by cropping & making new videos by their edition anyway companion Bilal (رضي الله عنه) refused to be Muazen of Abubakr after demise of Prophet Muhammad (pbu) so it's obvious that wahabists are insulting him by changing Shia videos to show their hatred from companion  Bilal (رضي الله عنه)

I saw this man at the airport.  His name was Bilal.  And he came to know I was Shia at the time because of my ring.  And he explained to me he was Shia too.  But he also said that his name is controversial amongst Shias since Bilal wasn’t himself a Shia.  
 

So...  no.  I didn’t get this from a cropped video online or whatever you said.  I find it “shocking” how conveniently You can come up with a random story out of the hat!  How many other things do you make up????

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

yes , it makes our Salah better & even cursing him make it better & every person that supports him is at least hypocrite & Fasiq & maybe in edge of Kufr.

alright.  Then continue and may you ascend higher and higher in your Salah by cursing.   .... 

 

Word of advice: don’t fool yourself.

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:


 

 

all of them for keeping unity between Muslims when Muslim community was under danger of extinction under treat of Romans & cursed Muawiah (la) .
 

A community that is founded on following a fasiq? A munafiq? A kafir?  
this doesn’t make sense!

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

this is from wahabi accusations to relate Shias to Mutazila as you do it based on your corrupted wahabi-Sufi doctrine.

it is taught in Hawzas.  Just do some basic reading.  

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46 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

alright.  Then continue and may you ascend higher and higher in your Salah by cursing.   ....  

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ {7}

[Shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
[Pickthal 1:7] The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
[Yusufali 1:7] The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

You do recite this obligatory Surah in ALL you Prayers/Salat. ? You disassociate yourself and remind yourself of the ones " Gone Astray" the ones Upon Whom HIS(عزّ وجلّ) Wrath s brought Down on. 

In your case no one comes to your mind, you leave it to God. While God ordered you to recognize them and treat them like a deadly Virus. 

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On 2/2/2020 at 9:35 PM, eThErEaL said:

I was shocked to hear from a Lebanese Shia once that Hazrat Bilal (رضي الله عنه) was not a true companion.  

I mean.. I never heard this growing up...  but if this is true, oh my God!   Astaghfirullah.  Extremists really know no bounds.

You are talking about Bilal ibn rabah (رضي الله عنه) ?

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

alright.  Then continue and may you ascend higher and higher in your Salah by cursing.   .... 

 

Word of advice: don’t fool yourself.

A community that is founded on following a fasiq? A munafiq? A kafir?  
this doesn’t make sense!

it is taught in Hawzas.  Just do some basic reading.  

I don't argue with idiots such as you just watch above video. 

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2 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

I saw this man at the airport.  His name was Bilal.  And he came to know I was Shia at the time because of my ring.  And he explained to me he was Shia too.  But he also said that his name is controversial amongst Shias since Bilal wasn’t himself a Shia.  
 

So...  no.  I didn’t get this from a cropped video online or whatever you said.  I find it “shocking” how conveniently You can come up with a random story out of the hat!  How many other things do you make up????

my nephews name  is Bilal too

I tell me his name is after Bilal b Bulayl aka Abu Layla Ansari [ another companion of the Prophet] 

please elaborate on the ijtehadi mistake of people who killed Uthman ? can you add (رضي الله عنه) next to their name as you do next to killers of zayd b suhan (رضي الله عنه) and ammar (رضي الله عنه) ?

if you are truly being so magnanimous then you should 

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:bismillah:

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 119:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَكُونُوا مَعَ الصَّادِقِينَ

O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and be with the true ones.
(English - Shakir)

You have to identify, you have to judge someone as true one while someone as liar. How can one able to be with the true ones while he remain unable to identify who are true ones & who are the liars.

This is the problem of Ahlul Sunnah. For them everyone is radi Allah anh, be he from the sadiqeen or be he from the kazibeen. 

فَنَجْعَل لَّعْنَةُ اللّهِ عَلَى الْكَاذِبِينَ

3:61

 

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1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

my nephews name  is Bilal too

I tell me his name is after Bilal b Bulayl aka Abu Layla Ansari [ another companion of the Prophet] 

He was named by his parents after Bilal B. Bulayl aka Abu Layla Ansari?

 

I doubt it!


How many people name their children after someone so obscure? Again, just making things up.  Do me a favor, tell your nephew that he was named after the famous Bilal Al-Habashi (رضي الله عنه) but because certain Shias (out of a certain kind of disease) tend to have a horrible opinion about some of the closest companions to the Prophet (S) and because Shias tend to lie and make stories up, you (my nephew) should be embarrassed about the name your parents gave you.  

 

 

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please elaborate on the ijtehadi mistake of people who killed Uthman ? can you add (رضي الله عنه) next to their name as you do next to killers of zayd b suhan (رضي الله عنه) and ammar (رضي الله عنه) ?

Yes.  You can.  

 

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if you are truly being so magnanimous then you should 

Yes I do.

Edited by eThErEaL
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How many people name their children after someone so obscure? Again, just making things up.  Do me a favor, tell your nephew that he was named after the famous Bilal Al-Habashi (رضي الله عنه) but because certain Shias (out of a certain kind of disease) tend to have a horrible opinion about some of the closest companions to the Prophet (S) and because Shias tend to lie and make stories up, you (my nephew) should be embarrassed about the name your parents gave you.  
 

I don't understand how can the say such a things about Bilal (ra):

From wikishia:

Many hadiths are narrated from the Prophet (s) regarding the virtues of Bilal, such as; "Bilal was among the early believers in Islam",[1] "he is the chief of all those who call for prayer",[2] "the garden is eager for three persons; Ali (a), 'Ammar, and Bilal",[3] "three black persons are the chiefs of the garden; Luqman the Wise, Najashi (the king of Abyssinia in the time Prophet (s)), and Bilal",[4] and also a prayer is narrated from the Prophet (s) for him helping lady Fatima (a) with the house chores.

Likewise, Imam Ali (a) has counted him among the early believers in Islam[5] and acclaimed his purity and self-edification.[6] Imam al-Sajjad (a) has recounted his merits and his arguments over the virtues of the Commander of the Faithful (a) with the opponents.[7] Imam al-Sadiq (a) has marked him as "the righteous servant (of Allah)[8], and "a lover of Ahl al-Bayt (a)".[9]

Edited by Abu Nur
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2 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

I don't understand how can the say such a things about Bilal (ra):

From wikishia:

Many hadiths are narrated from the Prophet (s) regarding the virtues of Bilal, such as; "Bilal was among the early believers in Islam",[1] "he is the chief of all those who call for prayer",[2] "the garden is eager for three persons; Ali (a), 'Ammar, and Bilal",[3] "three black persons are the chiefs of the garden; Luqman the Wise, Najashi (the king of Abyssinia in the time Prophet (s)), and Bilal",[4] and also a prayer is narrated from the Prophet (s) for him helping lady Fatima (a) with the house chores.

Likewise, Imam Ali (a) has counted him among the early believers in Islam[5] and acclaimed his purity and self-edification.[6] Imam al-Sajjad (a) has recounted his merits and his arguments over the virtues of the Commander of the Faithful (a) with the opponents.[7] Imam al-Sadiq (a) has marked him as "the righteous servant (of Allah)[8], and "a lover of Ahl al-Bayt (a)".[9]

Sickness in the heart.  There is no end to suspicion and then labeling.  
 

in this very forum alone, I people were suspecting so many things about me.   

Edited by eThErEaL
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4 hours ago, 000 said:

why the rudeness brother?

He is lying constantly without any evidence or proof just based on wahabi accusations against Shias. He lied about insulting to Bilal (رضي الله عنه) by Shias  because Bilal not accepted caliphate of Abu Bakr that after demise of Prophet Muhammad only recited Azan for one & last time by request of Lady Fatima (sa) that both of them rejected caliphate of Abubakr & he is promoting wahabi ideology by defending Muawiah (la) in name of Sunnis 

رضی الله رضانا اهل بیت-السید بلال وهبی

Sayed Bilal Wahabi (رضي الله عنه) from Shia viewpoint

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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3 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

He is lying constantly without any evidence or proof just based on wahabi accusations against Shias. He lied about insulting to Bilal (رضي الله عنه) by Shias  & he is promoting wahabi ideology by defending Muawiah (la) in name of Sunnis

 

Still, even if what you are saying is true, you don't have the right to tell him to burn in hell and calling him an idiot.

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3 minutes ago, 000 said:

Still, even if what you are saying is true, you don't have the right to tell him to burn in hell and calling him an idiot.

But he can insult any Shia & any Imam specially Imam Mahdi (aj) :hahaha:

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Abu bakar was the political leader. He lead the ummah.

This debate/point is not needed to be honest.

As the Ummah eventually accepted Imam Ali leadership so there is no problem.

So all Muslims agree Hazarat Ali was the leader of the ummah. ( I don't think there are any present khawarij or Muawiya supporters.)

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