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In the Name of God بسم الله
Shiachat user

Nearly impossible standards of sexual morality

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Assalamu alikum

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said that HE doesn't test people with burdens greater than they can carry.

Despite this, do you believe that there are certain obligations in Islam which a man must perform at all cost, but they are so extremely difficult that they are considered next to impossible?  

When do you think we face such extreme situations in life where Islam requires us to follow rules which are believed to be nearly impossible to follow? 

One aspect of life where many scholars believe entails performing nearly impossible tasks is controlling sexual desires before marriage. 

The problem with this issue is that if an unmarried person is repeatedly told that it is impossible to stay chaste without marriage, he may find it justified to commit sins if he is unable to get married. 

For example, read this:

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa915

"Taming the sexual drive is also impractical and almost impossible except for a few exceptional individuals. The only option that remains for youth in order not to fall into sin and corruption is temporary marriage."

And....

"The sexual instinct, having completely and absolutely awakened, is provoked and excited and exerts pressure upon the youth. And there is no alternative left except fulfilling the desire lawfully. 

The sexual urge is just like the urge and need for water and food. Can you tell a hungry or thirsty person to refrain from eating and drinking? Can another activity, even exercise and recreation or games, divert the attention of a hungry and thirsty one from food or water?

--------

Here, they are saying that suppressing sexual desire is so nearly impossible that one has no alternative left other than fulfilling it. Now, if an unmarried person reads this,  he might be motivated to get married. But then if he is unable to get married or do mutah, he might be inclined to feel that he has some leeway in doing sexual sins, because the scholars say it is next to impossible to avoid them. 

But the point is..that even if it is next to impossible....it is still compulsory. 

Yes, you cannot tell a hungry person to refrain from eating and drinking...but you must tell an unmarried person to refrain from all sexual activity. That's a big difference between hunger and sex. 

Of course Allah desires that everyone's sexual desire is fulfilled....but at the same time, when a person is unmarried, Islam requires and expects him to achieve chastity, no matter how enormously difficult and next to impossible it may be. 

But I just feel that when scholars advocate early marriages by saying that it is nearly impossible to control sexual desires, they may unintentionally be giving an excuse for unmarried people to justify their sins by saying that they can't do something which is considered nearly impossible by the scholars themselves. 

To this, it should be said that although it may be next to impossible, it must be done - sexual sins must be avoided and there is no excuse or leeway or justification for sins, even if one finds this a nearly impossible target to achieve. I believe advocating this stance can motivate unmarried people to stay chaste. 

So would you agree that early marriages should not be encouraged in a way which leaves unmarried people no hope or motivation to struggle for pre-marital chastity? 

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1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

title should be " nearly impossible standards of sexual morality"

Agreed. The original phrasing was ambiguous as to whether the OP was referring to people have to perform rather more than they would wish.

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3 hours ago, Shiachat user said:

The topic is specifically about when nikah and mutah are both unavailable, otherwise there was no need for this discussion. 

The only cases where those would be unavailable are in some of extreme cases, such as when you got imprisoned, or you are surviving in the jungle. Are you talking about something similar to these cases?

Edited by 000

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16 minutes ago, 000 said:

The only cases where those would be unavailable are in some of extreme cases

It's more common than that 

1. People not being able to get married for a number of years because of financial reasons.

2. Lots of young widows and divorcees are never being able to get married again

3. Some people can't get married because of physical disabilities or illnesses. 

4. Unspecified, unknown reasons. Allah knows best. Just like some people can't have children so just like that some people can't get married despite trying. 

 

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32 minutes ago, 000 said:

The only cases where those would be unavailable are in some of extreme cases, such as when you got imprisoned, or you are surviving in the jungle. Are you talking about something similar to these cases?

The Prophet (peace be upon him) advised unmarried men to get married if they could do so, and if they were unable to get married, he advised them to fast. These people were not imprisoned or living in jungle. 

---

Apology for the incorrect title, can moderators change it? Thanks 

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29 minutes ago, Shiachat user said:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) advised unmarried men to get married if they could do so, and if they were unable to get married, he advised them to fast. These people were not imprisoned or living in jungle.

  

39 minutes ago, starlight said:

It's more common than that 

1. People not being able to get married for a number of years because of financial reasons.

2. Lots of young widows and divorcees are never being able to get married again

3. Some people can't get married because of physical disabilities or illnesses. 

4. Unspecified, unknown reasons. Allah knows best. Just like some people can't have children so just like that some people can't get married despite trying. 

 

 

But it's not like any normal unmarried person should be forever in that state.. They should strive and set priorities right. Unmarried people should set priority for marriage high, doing any halal means necessary for that purpose. There is a tool that doesn't get much usage due to taboos. Temporary marriage. I think It will make things easier, especially in the West, where people are not much into that taboo.

Edited by 000

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Nobody is disagreeing to that. Everyone should try to get married.

But the topic is about the waiting period before marriage, the pre-marital life and it's struggles and whether achieving chastity in this period is next to impossible or not. 

Mutah is unavailable to most people - it's a fact which needs to be accepted. Society as a whole needs to take action, but many single unmarried people will not find means for mutah - and these are the people who the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) advised to fast. 

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21 hours ago, Shiachat user said:

So would you agree that early marriages should not be encouraged in a way which leaves unmarried people no hope or motivation to struggle for pre-marital chastity?

Early marriage should still be encouraged but perhaps scholars can also promote the stories of those who did not get married to encourage those who are waiting for marriage, like Prophet Isa (عليه السلام) and Fatima Masooma (عليه السلام). Waiting a long time for marriage or never getting married is the major test for some people in this world :( off topic but maybe there is another solution, maybe they could take hormone suppressants or something to reduce all desire. 

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32 minutes ago, Shiachat user said:

Nobody is disagreeing to that. Everyone should try to get married.

But the topic is about the waiting period before marriage, the pre-marital life and it's struggles and whether achieving chastity in this period is next to impossible or not. 

Mutah is unavailable to most people - it's a fact which needs to be accepted. Society as a whole needs to take action, but many single unmarried people will not find means for mutah - and these are the people who the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) advised to fast. 

Is getting a girlfriend impossible? You can just say two short sentences of marriage formula and it becomes halal instantly.

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6 minutes ago, Shiachat user said:

We don't live in a fantasy world. Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) advised fasting - do you wish to ignore this? 

No. under normal circumstances, it's just not feasible to constantly fast while neglecting other basic needs for years.

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2 minutes ago, starlight said:

Who asks for her father's permission? Him or the girl?

Actually there's a 'loophole', the fatwa about asking father's permission is just obligatory precaution, which means you can get other fatwa from other marja that don't say so.

Edited by 000

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8 minutes ago, 000 said:

Actually there's 'loophole', it's just obligatory precaution, which means you can get from other marja that don't say so.

I don't know why any girl would be willing to enter into a marriage with a man just because he cannot control his urges, that too a temporary one. 

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Just now, starlight said:

I don't know why any girl would be willing to enter into a marriage with a man just because he cannot control his urges, that too a temporary one. 

It's temporary and what a man on Earth would tell a girl that he cannot control his urges

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8 minutes ago, 000 said:

It's temporary and what a man on Earth would tell a girl that he cannot control his urges

How nice! So marry her to fulfill your urges for the time being under the guise of love, then dump her.Very nice

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2 minutes ago, starlight said:

How nice! So marry her to fulfill your urges for the time being under the guise of love, then dump her.Very nice

I'm not saying this. Too many possible alternative routes.

Edited by 000

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Yes it is near impossible these days. 

At the time of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) things were fine and marriage would go ahead correctly. And if you couldn't get married people would actively help you get married and they wouldn't sit around and say things like "do mutah" etc

 

Now because of society everything is so messed up. And it's not God's fault, humans have created this problem themselves. What kind of idiotic society creates such criteria to get married in the first place, it shouldn't be this difficult to get married but it is.... 

It therefore can't be said that it's a test from God... Because as we know God does not control humans, humans make their own decisions... 

I would go even further to say that abstinence for some people is literally "impossible" and they require a miracle... But how many miracles happen to the average person?

 

22 hours ago, Shiachat user said:

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said that HE doesn't test people with burdens greater than they can carry.

But then why do people commit suicide? Because they couldn't carry the burden or something else? 

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2 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

would go even further to say that abstinence for some people is literally "impossible

If it is "impossible", then it would be unfair of Allah to punish them. Sexual sins would become allowed if that had been the case. 

But Allah is not unfair and sexual sins never get allowed, which has to mean that nobody can say that it is impossible to stay abstinent. I heard that on the day of judgement Allah will give the example of Prophet Yousaf (عليه السلام). His sexual abstinence was more difficult than anyone of us - but Allah will say that if Yousaf (عليه السلام) remained abstinent, then why didn't you? 

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1 hour ago, Shiachat user said:

If it is "impossible", then it would be unfair of Allah to punish them. Sexual sins would become allowed if that had been the case. 

Well we don't know if Allah will punish the people or not.... 

People didn't really have an excuse 1400 years ago but today I could think of hundreds of excuses... 

1 hour ago, Shiachat user said:

sexual sins never get allowed

We don't know, it's impossible to say, they didn't have situations like this in the time of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)... The average male would just simply get married when it was time.

 

1 hour ago, Shiachat user said:

I heard that on the day of judgement Allah will give the example of Prophet Yousaf (عليه السلام). His sexual abstinence was more difficult than anyone of us - but Allah will say that if Yousaf (عليه السلام) remained abstinent, then why didn't you? 

Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) was literally one of the chosen ones. He was a very holy pious man who simply cannot be compared with the average male of 2020... 

The Angel Gabriel appeared to Yusuf (عليه السلام) several times in his life. There was also a very old Prophet who was kept alive by Allah, he appeared to Yusuf (عليه السلام) in the well... My point is, a holy Prophet cannot be compared to me or any other normal human. 

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True, and understandable. But these examples of Prophets are meant to be guidelines and role models for us. We have to try to follow them at least. 

28 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

We don't know, it's impossible to say, they didn't have situations like this in the time of the Prophet

Yes, agreed. But the rules don't change. Masturbation, adultery, fornication etc. were prohibited then, and are still prohibited even though situation now is very different and very difficult. 

30 minutes ago, Vindemiatrix said:

Well we don't know if Allah will punish the people or not.... 

Ofcourse, final judgement is with Allah. 

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Is controlling desire ‘near impossible’ if you avoid temptation?

if you are lowering your gaze, avoiding places where women are underdressed, avoiding haram images on tv and internet? And most importantly avoiding friendships with the opposite gender which we all know is a recipe for disaster?

is it still near impossible if you refrain from all of that? 

 

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25 minutes ago, Love4the14 said:

is it still near impossible if you refrain from all of that? 

It depends on your level of piety.

Some unmarried people can reach such high level of morality that they will not commit sexual sins even unconsciously. They will not even imagine committing sexual sins; even the thought of sinning will not enter their minds. 

They will associate sins with extreme filth and disgust. Being chaste will give them immense happiness, satisfaction and comfort. They will feel no urge or desire to commit any sins. 

There is something on the lines that Allah says that when someone lowers his gaze, Allah creates in that person a certain degree of comfort and that person can feel the beauty of that comfort in his heart. 

Of course such people are extreme rarity, but it is the ideal situation where an unmarried person enjoys his chastity much more than any perceived pleasure from sins. May Allah make all unmarried persons reach this level of satisfaction and contentment. 

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On 1/26/2020 at 8:15 PM, Vindemiatrix said:

Yes it is near impossible these days

Yes but this doesn't change anything as far as the law is concerned.

Even if a man thinks that it is near impossible for him to avoid sins (masturbation) before marriage, Islamic law will still say that he MUST not sin. The rule will say that even if one finds it nearly impossible to be chaste, that's no excuse to indulge in sins. People have to go through almost impossible hardships to stay on the right path. 

In today's world, chastity before marriage is near impossible, but still absolutely wajib, compulsory, obligatory and must be achieved at all cost - even if it means doing things near impossible. This is greater Jihad - as difficult as holding a burning coal in your hand. 

So if unmarried people find it near impossible to avoid sins, they are required to acknowledge that sins don't get allowed because one thinks staying chaste is impossible.

In other words, whether unmarried people find it as easy as a piece of cake or as extremely difficult and near impossible as holding a burning coal in hand, sins will not become allowed and chastity is required at all cost. 

That is what the law requires from us...but how much each individual can struggle to attain such extreme objectives will be dependent on our own abilities and most importantly Allah's divine help. 

Again, I'm just stating what Islamic law demands from us...but not claiming that I myself can attain that level of infallibility. 

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Guest chicken dinner

There is an entire community that revolves around taming your sexuality https://forum.nofap.com/index.php

How do we do it?

We avoid pornography and anything erotic. We don't masturbate. We don't fantasize. We channel this burning fire inside us into working towards our goals. We burn our energy by lifting or taking walks.

+ add Islam's advice:

Fast. Don't look at women irl. 

And you have a recipe for success.

I'm in the same boat as you, OP. I'm a young man who's not going to get married anytime soon, I live in a western country where women dress ridiculously, and I also get frustrated sometimes. But this problem is very solvable for us, if we work hard and move forward in life, eventually we will find a wife.

 

This is our problem. Not everyone deals with this. The majority of humanity doesn't have any problem getting married. But they have their problems tailored to them, and we have ours. Take our dads for example, finding a wife for them was easy, but settling into a living in a country who's language they don't speak was their special problem they had to overcome. 

Remember: God does not give US burdens that we can't handle. Maybe the majority of men can't handle not sinning until marriage, but God giving this problem to US in particular is evidence that we can overcome this.

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When I have a " dry " season I do this

Do not eat meat , esp beef camel etc 

Avoid a diet rich in fat

Eat little mostly veggies and lentils , always be a little hungry 

Avoid eye contact with women and or prolonged conversations.If at work be a little terse or very brief in response to women at work.

Avoid going places where women are scantily dressed. Avoid shopping ,mall, sport events at all costs.Avoid supermarket unless after midnight , do not go to parks or  gym.Or gym after midnight 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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On 1/27/2020 at 5:02 AM, Love4the14 said:

Is controlling desire ‘near impossible’ if you avoid temptation?

if you are lowering your gaze, avoiding places where women are underdressed, avoiding haram images on tv and internet? And most importantly avoiding friendships with the opposite gender which we all know is a recipe for disaster?

is it still near impossible if you refrain from all of that? 

 

As far as images are concerned, what about subliminal influences via colours, shapes, and sounds in one’s environment that may influence or trigger sexual thoughts? What if the shape of a nonhuman object, even in nature, could precipitate sinful intentions or desires? Additionally, what about the influence of dust or impure substances in the air, even outdoors? I, for instance, get concerned about every little speck of impurity in the air. Even a scent of any type could influence one’s thoughts. If one wishes to fully control the external environment, one may become claustrophobic, reclusive, and/or ascetic, being seemingly unable to avoid impurity.

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