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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Why do Sunni Muslims always say that Shias say bad things about Prophet Muhammad((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))’s wife(s)?

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18 hours ago, Logic1234 said:

I have no problem if you respect these figures. But respecting Muawiyah is a questionable thing in light of the verse # 22 of chapter 58. I don't know what prevent you to identify him as the greatest "Munafiq"! 

We cannot really judge who is a hypocrite or who isn’t a hypocrite unless someone explicitly and openly reveals it at some point in life (like towards the end of his or her life).  We cannot take on God’s role of judging people.  There are many wrong things Muawiyyah did (and Shias are very familiar with this as they grew up hearing this), but there are also a lot of positive things he did which Sunnis are familiar with as they grew up hearing about it.   Much of this is social conditioning.  The fact that most of you find it offensive and repulsive for me to find Muawiyyah respectable is because of social conditioning.  Some Sunni Urafa say that he was a wali of God while still condemning many of his actions.  It seems very bizarre to Shias, but these Sunnis who say this are actually far from saying something out of social conditioning.  It seems bizarre to Shias because of how much the concept of Adalat / Divine Justice is emphasized in Shia doctrine.  After all, It is so much emphasized that it is one of the Usul Ad-Din for Shias.  For Sunnis, God is Just of course, but they emphasize the fact that we can never comprehend God’s Justice. Shias harp on this concept attempting to use their reasoning, relying on their rationality, to not only understand God’s Justice but also take on the role of a judge.  Sunnis say, “we leave it to God, for judgement is not in our prerogative”.  
when someone dies in the community, Even though he may not have been the friendliest person, even though he may not have been the most generous or kind, you will still find that people always have something good to say about him out of compassion and out of a “husn-as-zan”.  (A good opinion).  One can very well highlight all the negative traits of such an individual and how oppressive he was, but this is not what makes us human.  If you want to be a human being, you have to manifest God’s compassion, mercy, gentleness, motherly love, and kindness.  Sometimes you might Think you are right, but out of compassion you know the Truth demand you to be silent for that is more beneficial.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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^^^^ even if she was beloved [ that's debatable as a lot is based on hadith narrated by her] ,does that mean we absolve her of all crimes AFTER Prophet? Which if he had seen he would not have held her in high esteem 

And what about her reprimand in the Qur'an ? Her status was conditional to her following a certain pattern of behavior and STAYING in her home where Prophet left her.

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

^^^^ even if she was beloved [ that's debatable as a lot is based on hadith narrated by her] ,does that mean we absolve her of all crimes AFTER Prophet? Which if he had seen he would not have held her in high esteem 

And what about her reprimand in the Qur'an ? Her status was conditional to her following a certain pattern of behavior and STAYING in her home where Prophet left her.

Like I said, judge action not person.

Which verse?

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7 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Like I said, judge action not person.

Which verse?

 

1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

^^^^ even if she was beloved [ that's debatable as a lot is based on hadith narrated by her] ,does that mean we absolve her of all crimes AFTER Prophet? Which if he had seen he would not have held her in high esteem 

And what about her reprimand in the Qur'an ? Her status was conditional to her following a certain pattern of behavior and STAYING in her home where Prophet left her.

No doubt she was in the wrong in leading an army against Ali (عليه السلام).

Ali was in charge of the wives of rasoulallah, he reminder her of that when he captured her and escorted her back to Medina. Ali (عليه السلام) holds executive powers over the marital status of wives of Rasoulallah, he allow could have divorced her from Mohammed (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).

Ali (عليه السلام) treated her with honor and respect, mashallah after he chastised her in the aftermath of Jamel. She stayed home after that. I would say Ali Absolved her of her crimes, against him and the ummah.

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

Like I said, judge action not person.

Which verse?

Some individuals legacy is just one action which has such catastrophic consequences that overshadow everything else 

Would you use the same excuse for shimar or ziyad b abih afterall they did support Imam Ali earlier in their life ?

Verse ?

Come on brother you are a veteran and well respected member here on ShiaChat and generally speaking I really like your posts 

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1 hour ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Some individuals legacy is just one action which has such catastrophic consequences that overshadow everything else 

You are still insisting on Judging the person based on his action(s).  How many times does one HAVE to repeat that we are not God.... That we can only discern between a blameworthy action and a Praiseworthy action....

We cannot even judge ourselves.  The worst thing is when one thinks they know about someone or something when in fact they don’t know.

Quote

Would you use the same excuse for shimar or ziyad b abih afterall they did support Imam Ali earlier in their life ?

judge the action, not the person.  

Quote

Verse ?

Come on brother you are a veteran and well respected member here on ShiaChat and generally speaking I really like your posts 

Yes.  So share the verse.  Because the one I have in mind seems to praise her.

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15 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

You are still insisting on Judging the person based on his action(s).  How many times does one HAVE to repeat that we are not God.... That we can only discern between a blameworthy action and a Praiseworthy action....

We cannot even judge ourselves.  The worst thing is when one thinks they know about someone or something when in fact they don’t know.

judge the action, not the person.  

Yes.  So share the verse.  Because the one I have in mind seems to praise her.

You premise is flawed I'm not saying Aisha is GUARANTEED hell , I can’t say that about anyone without an authentic hadith [ and maybe there is one such hadith regarding her I don’t know ] 

[Ok can you add (رضي الله عنه) next to uthmans killer please? I hope you would since we just judge their action and not the individual?]

But we can condemn actions and based on that have a negative opinion of certain individuals.If their actions were overwhelmingly negative 

Seriously? You have been here since 2007 ,we have been slacking on Aisha bashing apparently 

just read Surah tahrim 

 

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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5 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

unless someone explicitly and openly reveals it at some point in life (like towards the end of his or her life).

Salam, 

Brother, you can find all evidences from history books. What "explicit" evidences you would seek for Muawiyah while there is a hadith present both in Sunni as well in Shia books mentioning the martyrdom of Ammar bin Yasir (رضي الله عنه), the explicit words of hadith are that "Ammar will be killed by a rebel group, Ammar would be calling them towards jannah while they were calling him towards hell". What explicit evidences you would be looking while Muawiyah was the one who broke his oath, ruined the treaty he made with Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) by appointing Yazeed as Khalifah? 

If these are not sufficient, I am sure Sunni's have to start adding (رضي الله عنه) after the name of Abu Lulu Feroz. Because you can't judge anyone. 

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6 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

There are many wrong things Muawiyyah did (and Shias are very familiar with this as they grew up hearing this), but there are also a lot of positive things he did which Sunnis are familiar with as they grew up hearing about it.

all of his actions was for destroying Islam & forever curse of Allah on him & his son & who that justifies their actions.

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Regarding muawiyah his positives are the polar opposite of what we are told are the positives of Umar 

So admiring  one automatically means rejecting the other 

Muawiyah 

1 overturned the principle of sabiqa,  umars principle 

2 disregarded shura , umars principle 

3 started a monarchy , hated by Umar

4 believed in byzantine like pomp and pageantry unlike umars austerity 

5 was a very later convert unlike Umar  

6 practiced nepotism unlike Umar 

7 freedom of speech practised in earlier times was curtailed in muawiyah time 

8 treasury became his personal property unlike in umars time 

So the only positive I can say about muawiyah is that we are told he was handsome good looking guy but that's about it 

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