Why do men care more about wife's skills than morals?

[rkazmi33 1,209]

I have noticed that for men, it's much more important that their wives are good at something, it's either she has to be pretty or she has to be really good at house work or she has to be successful in her career. I think that men are very competitive and they compete with other men constantly in how many women they can attract. Moral values or modesty are not something which they can show off, so they don't give much attention to it.

Women, who are skillfull are mostly high maintenance. For example, in western Muslim community, most women want to live in big houses or drive expensive cars. Men don't mind spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on these things but if a woman requires help with cooking and cleaning or child care (even if she is a house wife, it's still a lot of work), most men will not want to spend few hundred dollars to help their wife and will consider it a waste of money. 

I think that women, who are not very successful, are harmless partners. Thay are so busy in surviving, they don't have time to manipulate other people or they don't have enough intelligence to cheat without getting caught. For some women, hardest thing in the world is to do hijab. Their husbands can abuse them, make them work like donkeys, but as long as they don't have to do hijab, they are happy. Your wife's hijab is not something you can show to other men. Any woman can wear hijab, but how much she follows all the rules, that's only between her and Allah. So men claim that hijab is important to them, but in practical life, they don't really care. 

Another thing is that skilled women are often cruel. They are hard-working so they hate lazy or dumb people. They may abuse their kids, other women or even their own life partner with their comments but men don't mind it. 

For me, it's important that my life partner is hard working and be able to provide but if he is abusive or has other moral flaws, I think I will lose respect for him. But men prefer a woman who can make them look good in front of other men, even if they are miserable with that woman or they know that woman is making life hell for other women. And I have observed with the men in my community that even success in career is not very important. The most important things for men are looks and cooking, cleaning skills. I can understand why looks are important for men but I don't understand why cooking and cleaning skills are so over-rated. A successful career woman is obligated to learn cooking and cleaning but a house wife is not obligated to become successful career woman. 

This is the example of a woman that men like. All my life, men have tried to transform me into a woman like her. The problem is that I don't like her and I don't want to become like her. But most men don't care about all the dusgusting things she did. They dream about a woman like her. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by rkazmi33

[habib e najjaar 2,752]

Hmm.. is it possible that you are making sweeping generalizations? Looking at a bunch of recent threads on ShiaChat, id say women trying to have a career in addition to their home duties are facing enough bashing from the men. 

A bad experience with one or two people should not cloud your vision about an entire group. 

I am sure you can find enougj stories about "unskilled" women even in the villages making life hell for men and women around them

 Lol. It comes down to piety and character. Keep it simple.

3 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

 

Another thing is that skilled women are often cruel. They are hard-working so they hate lazy or dumb people. They may abuse their kids, other women or even their own life partner with their comments but men don't mind it.

 

 

[rkazmi33 1,209]

1 hour ago, habib e najjaar said:

Hmm.. is it possible that you are making sweeping generalizations? Looking at a bunch of recent threads on ShiaChat, id say women trying to have a career in addition to their home duties are facing enough bashing from the men. 

A bad experience with one or two people should not cloud your vision about an entire group. 

I am sure you can find enougj stories about "unskilled" women even in the villages making life hell for men and women around them

 Lol. It comes down to piety and character. Keep it simple.

 

My post was not at all about career women. By "skilled women", I mean women who are skilled at anything. Even in villages, there's a hierarchy of women based on their talents and skills. No one is perfect and that's the problem with successful people. While they are always happy to criticize other people and show them their flaws, they can never admit or acknowledge that they might have some flaws too. If you have only seen success in life, it's very easy to become arrogant. But when you have seen failures, you become more compassionate and have more tolerance for other people's weaknesses. I think it's important to remind men that your wives are your companions, not trophies which you can use to compete with other men. There are many women who are unsung heroes, they give great sacrifices but only Allah knows about their sacrifices, and their husbands cannot flaunt their sacrifices in front of other men. Don't look at your wife in light of what "others" say about her. You spend the most amount of time with her, you might see the qualities which others cannot see. Learn to appreciate those qualities and if other men taunt you about your wife, change your friends. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by rkazmi33

[Moalfas 1,407]

24 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

Learn to appreciate those qualities and if other men taunt you about your wife, change your friends. 

I'll second that, change your friends not your wife lol 

[Qa'im 11,175]

When are you going to stop throwing men under the bus all the time rkazmi?

[starlight 14,774]

5 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

it's much more important that their wives are good at something, it's either she has to be pretty or she has to be really good at house work or she has to be successful in her career.

Nothing wrong with this.

 I mean if a woman does not have a career and is not interested in housework other than bare minimum then what exactly does she do all day? Watch TV sitting on the sofa? I think what men might be interested in is a woman who is not lazy and has a passion for something in life. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by starlight

[habib e najjaar 2,752]

26 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

No one is perfect and that's the problem with successful people. While they are always happy to criticize other people and show them their flaws, they can never admit or acknowledge that they might have some flaws too. If you have only seen success in life, it's very easy to become arrogant. But when you have seen failures, you become more compassionate and have more tolerance for other people's weaknesses. I think it's important to remind men that your wives are your companions, not trophies which you can use to compete with other men.  

I don’t completely disagree with what you say, but I still think it goes down to piety and character. A woman of zero skills can also choose to put people down as her way of expressing her inferiority complex.

Two, Islam does emphasize on women learning a skill, such as tailoring, embroidery, something to keep their hands busy and useful. (Not having learnt is not a crime or a reason to be derided, but it is good to pick up a skill if possible).

There are people who have seen no significant failure in their life  yet are extremely compassionate. And those who have seen huge amounts of it but are quick to judge and criticise the faults of others. Again  piety and character matter. A lot.

As for men, yes, women are not trophies. Though, some men want a trophy wife to add to their own value, but do not value the woman herself at all and privately do their best to break her. I have experienced this first hand. Men of piety and character do not do this. 

[habib e najjaar 2,752]

4 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

When are you going to stop throwing men under the bus all the time rkazmi?

When they buy their lambos and stop crowding the walkways 

Now, where's @hasanhh to remind us what his ex did. 

[Qa'im 11,175]

On a serious note, if I can analyze 4 billion people: I don’t think most men are careless about their wives’ morals. Does any serious man want a woman to cheat on him, steal from him, beat him up, and commit other forms of obscenity or immorality? Absolutely not. Just one of these is enough to have a serious man leave you, no matter how “skilled” you are. All of these are in the “morality” quality.

In most young Western couples I’ve seen, Muslim and non-Muslim, there isn’t the division of labour that you describe. Pretty much both sides are pitching in on the work and the housework. I don’t think this method is particularly good personally, but it is the reality for many people who want to make end’s meet.

The most basic minimum requirements any man wants in a wife are (1) attraction, and (2) a personality that he can tolerate, (3) enough morals for her not to hurt him on a consistent basis. I think these three can even apply the other way around as well. I don’t think any of these are particularly hard to attain for most women. Once you have these, your success mostly relies on your ability to discern Mr.. Right from Mr.. Wrong, and that’s where many women make a mistake.

[notme 20,799]

2 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

discern Mr... Right from Mr... Wrong, and that’s where many women make a mistake.

Truth!

[ShiaChat Mod 2,258]

Good skills often translate into tangible outcomes with more immediate impact. Good morals, though, may be more subtle and abstract. Although people can often sense it.

I dunno...

[habib e najjaar 2,752]

33 minutes ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Good skills often translate into tangible outcomes with more immediate impact. Good morals, though, may be more subtle and abstract. Although people can often sense it.

I dunno...

True.. plus, some good skills are even indicators of some moral/akhlaqi issues such as discipline, organisation, dedication, focus, positive distractions/hobbies, etc necessary to execute a "skill" which can point at underlying good qualities that impact on ones morals or in the long run impact ones morals and those of the children they raise.

[rkazmi33 1,209]

Some companies have started to realize this, and I have seen people sharing this quote even on linked in: " A brilliant jerk may give good results but the cost to the overall morale is too high". I think we can apply the same principle to our families also. Eastern people just don't understand this principle. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by rkazmi33

[hasanhh 10,185]

2 hours ago, starlight said:

has a passion for something

Like "hiding under the covers?"

Of course, from what you wrote, you do have a Poultry Patrol to guard you.

[hasanhh 10,185]

2 hours ago, habib e najjaar said:

When they buy their lambos and stop crowding the walkways 

Now, where's @hasanhh to remind us what his ex did. 

Among other things, she'd whine like a hurtin' hound.

Which reminds me, where's banter-babe . . . ah . . . Carlsone? Hasn't she finished-off her new hubby yet?

[AkhiraisReal 969]

Being a good wife and a good mother is a skill above everything else.

And I think most men would prefer that more than them having a successful career. 

[rkazmi33 1,209]

17 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Being a good wife and a good mother is a skill above everything else.

And I think most men would prefer that more than them having a successful career. 

Being a good wife and a good mother involves a lot more than cooking and cleaning skills and it certainly involves having good morals. 

[AkhiraisReal 969]

1 hour ago, rkazmi33 said:

Being a good wife and a good mother involves a lot more than cooking and cleaning skills and it certainly involves having good morals. 

Of course, like having good akhlaaq, morals, ethics, hijab physical and social, not annoying husband, obedience etc all that is part of being a good wife. Cooking and cleaning is not for wife only. 

[Logic1234 480]

16 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

I think that men are very competitive and they compete with other men constantly in how many women they can attract.

Salam, 

Its just your thinking! By the way, this sounds like Darwinian way of thinking. 
 

16 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

Moral values or modesty are not something which they can show off, so they don't give much attention to it.

Yet these two are the things a man would be searching in any woman. 

[Son of Placid 1,455]

6 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Being a good wife and a good mother is a skill above everything else.

And I think most men would prefer that more than them having a successful career. 

Being a good mother and good wife is getting rare. Most women here want a career. They want to be independent of men, when they don't need them. 

I don't know where we're headed. I don't remember the details but a poll taken of 16 yr old girls asking what they wanted to be. 60% said they wanted to be celebrities. 

[AkhiraisReal 969]

2 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Being a good mother and good wife is getting rare. Most women here want a career. They want to be independent of men, when they don't need them. 

I don't know where we're headed. I don't remember the details but a poll taken of 16 yr old girls asking what they wanted to be. 60% said they wanted to be celebrities. 

yes those numbers are probably true. Just look at the number of Instagram models posting half naked photos of themselves for that gratification and celebrity status. imagine raising a kid just for them to post half naked photos to show to the entire world.

unfortunately we are headed in bad times and it will only get worse until our Imam comes back in sha Allah.

[Moalfas 1,407]

9 hours ago, AkhiraisReal said:

, not annoying husband, obedience etc all that is part of being a good wife. 

As in 'Sit! Stay! Good girl' ?? Lol 

I think many men have misunderstood the 'obedience' aspect in a marriage. It's not a given, and it's not to be used for control. 

[ali_fatheroforphans 6,105]

21 hours ago, rkazmi33 said:

The most important things for men are looks and cooking, cleaning skills. I can understand why looks are important for men but I don't understand why cooking and cleaning skills are so over-rated.

I can only speak as a Pakistani guy, yeah I think I understand where you're coming from. It's not just men even aunties themselves believe the success of a woman depends on her ability to cook, clean the house, be very active, be good at changing diapers etc. I feel even our own mothers look at these things (which is defs a plus) rather than the purity of a woman's heart. Life isn't that complicated and it's our willingness to put effort in any relationship. I wouldn't give a damn if a woman can't cook, like no big deal, I'm sure both spouses can watch a couple of cooking tutorials together. 

I feel it's what the desi culture teaches us. Girls are made to be some serving machines. Even my own mother (as much as I respect her) keeps bringing up the point that she wants me to marry a girl who can cook well etc. 

 

 

[AkhiraisReal 969]

2 hours ago, Moalfas said:

As in 'Sit! Stay! Good girl' ?? Lol 

I think many men have misunderstood the 'obedience' aspect in a marriage. It's not a given, and it's not to be used for control. 

obedience as in if the husband tells his wife not to do something she should accept that.

[starlight 14,774]

27 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

if the husband tells his wife not to do something she should accept that.

Yes, for example  'Don't breathe' 

[AStruggler 952]

7 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

Being a good mother and good wife is getting rare. Most women here want a career. They want to be independent of men, when they don't need them. 

I don't know where we're headed. I don't remember the details but a poll taken of 16 yr old girls asking what they wanted to be. 60% said they wanted to be celebrities. 

Greetings oh fellow maple syrup drinker.

[ali_fatheroforphans 6,105]

1 minute ago, AStruggler said:

Greetings oh fellow maple syrup drinker.

Greetings oh fellow Kashmiri chai drinker.

[AStruggler 952]

2 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Greetings oh fellow Kashmiri chai drinker.

Can't remember the last time I had that to be honest.

[AStruggler 952]

3 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I wouldn't give a damn If a woman can't cook

Damn are you sure about that? You don't want to be eating cereal or peanut-butter sandwhiches the rest of your life!

Lol I kid, I just realized that I too don't even think about cooking skills when assessing a potential wife, hope this isn't a bad thing.

Edited January 20, 2020 by AStruggler

[Moalfas 1,407]

47 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

obedience as in if the husband tells his wife not to do something she should accept that.

InshaAllah, when you're blessed with a wife to complete your Deen, you'll realise that more often than not, it's you who will have to obey lol

[ali_fatheroforphans 6,105]

43 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

just realized that I too don't even think about cooking skills when assessing a potential wife, hope this is isn't a bad thing.

Man we're so obsessed about the orthodox hijab (aka covering ankles and wearing  socks etc.) that we forgot about this haha. 

[AkhiraisReal 969]

3 hours ago, Moalfas said:

InshaAllah, when you're blessed with a wife to complete your Deen, you'll realise that more often than not, it's you who will have to obey lol

That's basically going against Islam. 

A man is the leader of the household. And it's his duty to provide and guide his family to the straight path. Hence one of the reasons for the importance of obedience from the wife. 

However I am not saying that it's possible nowadays, since this system is targeting the woman, and they have been very successful at it. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by AkhiraisReal

[AkhiraisReal 969]

4 hours ago, starlight said:

Yes, for example  'Don't breathe' 

Is that the first thing that came to your mind when I mentioned obedience from the wife. 

[starlight 14,774]

16 minutes ago, AkhiraisReal said:

Is that the first thing that came to your mind when I mentioned obedience from the wife. 

No. This,was the second. The first was 'you are not allowed to leave the house'.

[AkhiraisReal 969]

53 minutes ago, starlight said:

No. This,was the second. The first was 'you are not allowed to leave the house'.

The wife needs permission for that too.