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zxcvbnm2016

Is it permissible to buy pizza from "halal" pizzerias?

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I have never been to a pizzeria owned by a Muslim that used pork bacon. They only use zabiha turkey or beef bacon and zabiha beef pepperoni. Bacon and pepperoni are cuts of meat, not a type of animal. It's like saying you can only get hot dogs from a pig. Hot dogs are a type of meat, not the animal. I would ask the owner of the pepperoni and bacon is made from beef, not pork.

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10 hours ago, zxcvbnm2016 said:

Hi

What are the rulings on buying pizza from Muslim pizzerias when they sell pizza with bacon, pepperoni etc? 
 

If you can be certain that no Haram meat has come in contact with any of the pans/utensils etc used to prepare your 'halal' pizza, then you can. 

Also, note that If the owners are happy to sell non Halal ingredients, I'd question their commitment in ensuring my food and its preparation doesn't come in contact with the non Halal. 

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3 minutes ago, ShiaChat Mod said:

Halal bacon and pepperoni exists.

Indeed, they do exist and many Muslim business owners use them; but there are also Muslim owners who sell both Halal and non Halal ingredients.

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Because I usually interrogate them before buying lol so I know a lot of them do sell both  meats to their respective target markets.

Just being a Muslim isn't enough to trust a vendor's meat. Some even sell non Halal claiming it's Halal because it's cheaper for them to buy. 

I know Muslims that facilitate the consumption of alcohol at their restaurants, and others who rent their properties to gambling businesses. 

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10 hours ago, Moalfas said:

If you can be certain that no Haram meat has come in contact with any of the pans/utensils etc used to prepare your 'halal' pizza, then you can. 

Also, note that If the owners are happy to sell non Halal ingredients, I'd question their commitment in ensuring my food and its preparation doesn't come in contact with the non Halal. 

This is going to be hard I think. I will ask them if they use bacon from pigs but I am 100% sure that they do and that is why I  was wondering if its allowed to buy pizza when they use the same oven to bake the pizza with bacon on. I live in Denmark so there are extremely few places where they don’t sell pork at all. Most of them do even being "Muslims" and some of them sell beer and some don’t. 

But do you know for sure that this is the correct "ruling" on this matter? 

Thanks in advance all.

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13 hours ago, zxcvbnm2016 said:

This is going to be hard I think. I will ask them if they use bacon from pigs but I am 100% sure that they do and that is why I  was wondering if its allowed to buy pizza when they use the same oven to bake the pizza with bacon on. I live in Denmark so there are extremely few places where they don’t sell pork at all. Most of them do even being "Muslims" and some of them sell beer and some don’t. 

That's the unfortunate reality and yes, it does become hard dealing with such decisions. 

 

13 hours ago, zxcvbnm2016 said:

But do you know for sure that this is the correct "ruling" on this matter? 

This process of questioning/reassuring myself and conscience is what I tend to apply to myself when deciding who to buy from. It's based on the general rulings that relate to non Halal meat/vendors and our personal responsibility in seeking Halal. 

If you want an official ruling, you can send your question directly to your Marja's office, as I haven't come across such specific ruling. 

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On 1/17/2020 at 9:03 PM, Moalfas said:

Because I usually interrogate them before buying lol so I know a lot of them do sell both  meats to their respective target markets.

Just being a Muslim isn't enough to trust a vendor's meat. Some even sell non Halal claiming it's Halal because it's cheaper for them to buy. 

I know Muslims that facilitate the consumption of alcohol at their restaurants, and others who rent their properties to gambling businesses. 

AstaghfirAllah,

Especially here in the states there are Muslims who sell both pork and alcohol in stores and restaurants. Actually, the most pork I have ever seen in any supermarket belonged to a Muslim owner. There were rows and rows of pork. I know his Family and his entire family are Muslim from the Middle East where I’m sure they weren’t allowed to have pork stores. 

This ain’t news however, this been going on for years. And these stores usually end up in all poor African American neighborhoods.

AstaghfirAllah, May Allah forgive us and put us on the straight path. 

Edited by AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola

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31 minutes ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

And these stores usually end up in all poor African American neighborhoods.

You also find that some of those who rely on the disadvantaged sections of society in making their 'living' are usually the most prejudiced and racist against their own customers. 

One could start to understand how Haram earnings could contribute to such behaviours. 

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This is the chiller section of Ebenezer's in Hong Kong (the branch in Central). I swear I have never seen a pizzeria with so much beer. Alcoholic.

Screenshot_2020-01-19_at_14_29_16.png

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I once worked at a pizza place that had haram toppings. Their justification was that halal ingredients cost more, so why waste them on non Muslims? So if someone who is obviously not Muslim comes in, they give him a pizza with pork pepperoni, and when an Arab comes in, they give him a pizza with halal beef pepperoni. They did care to not cross contaminate them, so I think it was mainly to save money. I still think it's a bad idea though. 

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3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

This is the chiller section of Ebenezer's in Hong Kong (the branch in Central). I swear I have never seen a pizzeria with so much beer. Alcoholic.

Screenshot_2020-01-19_at_14_29_16.png

There's some more at the bottom lol 

 

IMG_7639.JPG

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On 1/17/2020 at 9:05 PM, Moalfas said:

If you can be certain that no Haram meat has come in contact with any of the pans/utensils etc used to prepare your 'halal' pizza, then you can.

This is incorrect. Everything is tahir unless you know it has become najis. If you don't know for sure and are uncertain whether the halal food became contaminated with the haram food or not, then you can consider it halal.

However, what I said so far was from a basic rulings perspective, and not from the akhlaq/spirituality perspective. Certain things may be halal, but still not be so good for the soul. When it comes to food, taking extra care and precaution is definitely a good thing to do, as what you eat has implications on your soul...

Also, if the one who is hosting your food is Muslim, then you can eat that food without asking questions. 

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To answer the question of the OP, I personally dislike to buy "halal" or vegetarian food from restaurants that also sell haram food, out fear of eating cross-contaminated food. However, there are a few exceptional times where I might just risk it and buy the food with my eyes closed. Or, say I'm with a group of Muslim brothers and someone already buys like a veg pizza, then in this case, I'll probably just eat it, as the burden of responsibilty would be on the Muslim brother who's serving me the pizza. 

Edited by AStruggler

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42 minutes ago, AStruggler said:

This is incorrect. Everything is tahir unless you know it has become najis.

As rule of thumb, yes. But you have a case here where you KNOW there's Haram food around, so the balance of probabilities kicks in and it's your responsibility to decide with your conscience. 

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3 hours ago, Moalfas said:

As rule of thumb, yes. But you have a case here where you KNOW there's Haram food around, so the balance of probabilities kicks in and it's your responsibility to decide with your conscience. 

Yes you know there is haram food there, but you do not know if it contaminated the halal food. 

Edited by AStruggler

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11 hours ago, AbdulKarim313_Austin/Nola said:

Some even sell non Halal claiming it's Halal because it's cheaper for them to buy. 

Some years back there was a news paper in my country who had send some kebab from a kebab store to a laboratory and had it examined only to find that it had traces of pork in it. The result was that some costumers acted with violence towards the supplier of that kebab store. But you never know if it was true or not because that was probably the reaction that the sensationalist news paper was after.

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12 hours ago, AStruggler said:

Yes you know there is haram food there, but you do not know if it contaminated the halal food. 

That's like being presented with a phone to buy from a known phone thief, and he tells you it's not stolen. You make a conscience decision based on the balance of probabilities. 

A vendor using both Halal and Haram ingredients will prepare all the food in the same area, all the trays and utensils etc are shared. Adding toppings manually from one ingredient to another.. etc what guarantees are there for no cross contamination? Especially since the vendor's conscience allowes him to sell Haram ingredients.

Again, it's a conscience decision you make based on the balance of probabilities. 

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I have decided that I will not eat from places that sells pork as topping etc. to be on the safe side. Sadly there so so few places where you can eat without thinking about these things in Denmark. There very strict rules against halal food and stuff. 

Thank you all for your help.

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Absolutely. When I go into public restrooms for instance, I might not find visible evidence of Najasa on the seat, but on the balance of probabilities, I assume it is not Tahir. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Moalfas said:

Absolutely. When I go into public restrooms for instance, I might not find visible evidence of Najasa on the seat, but on the balance of probabilities, I assume it is not Tahir. 

 

What about buying or renting a home which was previously inhabited by non-ahle kitab kuffar?

Edited by AStruggler

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Lol Well for starters, I wouldn't label them 'kuffar', such labels only demonize a huge section of society that I would rather coexist with and build bridges. They're my equals in humanity.

As for the question of the house, I would assume Najasa and go on a purifying (Tat'hir) mission especially the kitchen and bathrooms etc. But that's just me.

 

Edited by Moalfas
typo

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